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20:00
@Perturb: This is why I recommend studying curves and surfaces before jumping into more abstract stuff. Of course, you should know all this stuff from Guillemin & Pollack. The only difference is that they used parametrizations rather than charts (so $\phi^{-1}$ in place of $\phi$).
@TedShifrin I only went through the first like 20 pages of G&P :(, didn't have time to go through it because university stuff got in the way.
Yeah, but they did this in the first few pages.
Defining manifolds and tangent spaces.
Yeah they did, the setup there was much simpler though I feel since manifolds were all taken to be subsets of $\mathbb{R}^n$
doesnt that only make tangents simpler
Yes, but it really makes no difference. The only thing it does is avoid difficulties defining smooth structure.
20:07
charts and parametrizations r basically identical
Saying what a smooth function is is different.
oh word i guess u talk about smooth extension to an open subset or smth?
Yeah that's what was done in G&P IIRC @Eric
To define smoothness on $M$, and to define smoothness to $M$ you are just talking about vector-valued functions whose values land in $M$.
Guess I've taught this a few million times :P
lmao that feels almost more complicated to me than the composing lol
i guess not really actually
20:10
Nah, I totally like doing embedded manifolds for undergrads.
they're both simple
My only complaint is that I can't talk about Grassmannians, but I have plenty to do with undergrads without that.
@TedShifrin i agree for intuitions sake
So just going back to what I asked, say I have a smooth manifold $M$ and a smooth function $f : M \to \mathbb{R}$, along with a chart $(U, \phi)$ containing a point $p \in M$. Then $\frac{\partial}{\partial x^i}\bigg|_p(f)$ is just the usual partial derivative $\frac{\partial f}{\partial x^i}(\phi(p))$ taking place in $\mathbb{R}^n$ (which is really the directional derivative in the direction of the basis vector $e_i$)
No, it's the partial derivative of $f\circ \phi^{-1}$ at $\phi(p)$.
20:16
@TedShifrin I meant that, I was using abuse of notation :p
OK, then yes.
And if you think back to my comment about the curves back on $M$, that's doing the directional derivative of $f$ along the $x^i$-curve at $p$.
Yeah it makes a lot more sense now to me
I draw lots of pictures when I teach this stuff (surprise, surprise).
lol I need to start drawing more pictures
20:25
Hi chat
More pictures is always a good idea
hmm
I wrote out the appropriate surface integral for my case of interest
and mathematica can't seem to solve it in closed form
nevertheless, if I do it numerically, what I get is 5pi to within numerical precision
so...hmm
20:43
@Semiclassical so, where does the parametrisation of singular PSD matrices come in?
well, i'm wanting to find that hypervolume in some way
so parametrizing that set seemed like the right place to start
I'm getting dubious that it's actually workable that way, though
Can you verify if the statement is true or false please? Let $a,b\in \mathbb{R}_{+}$ with $a<b$, then
\begin{equation*}
\frac{b}{a}\leq \frac{1+b^{2}}{1+a^{2}}\text{.}
\end{equation*}
21:13
I just learned that the jacobson radical and the frattini subgroup are both intersections of maximal substructures (or normal ones). Are there other examples of that?
@Takashi I think the inequality is true if and only if $ab<1$. Take $a=1/4$ and $b=1/2$ for example. Then $b/a=2$, but the right side is equal to $20/17<34/17=2$
another approach: the proposed inequality can be rearranged to $a+1/a\leq b+1/b$. Note that the form of this inequality remains the same if we replace a or b with their reciprocals. But these operations do not generically preserve the inequality a<b, so the proposed inequality cannot be true for all 0<a<b.
if ab<1, though, then a<1/b and a<b. so in that case, replacing b->1/b leaves all inequalities unchanged. so in that scenario it is indeed possible for the inequality to be valid.
22:19
happy new year, Piggy
Pig
Pig
happy new year Ted!
Hope everything's well :)
more or less, yes, thanks ... same to you.
Pig
Pig
Thanks!
22:38
Why doesn't $\Bbb{R}$ retract onto $(0,1)$?
What happens when you try to do it, @user193319?
Not sure. That's why I came to the chatroom. Does the answer involve sophisticated algebraic topology?
NOOOO.
3
Have you drawn pictures to try to do it? THat's what I'm asking.
I have, and it looks like it could retract; but for some reason it doesn't.
So how does it look like it could? Where did the endpoints go?
22:42
Ah, I see. Let think about this a little bit longer.
Let $r : \Bbb{R} \to (0,1)$ be a retraction. Since $\frac{1}{n} \in (0,1)$ for every $n$, and since $r$ is continuous, $r(0) = \lim_{n \to \infty} r(\frac{1}{n}) = \lim_{n \to \infty} \frac{1}{n} = 0 \notin (0,1)$, a contradiction.
Is this right?
This also shows that $(0,1]$ can't be a retraction of $\Bbb{R}$, right?
Right.
Thanks!
So what condition on the subset do you think is necessary?
hi @CaptainAmerica
22:51
I think closed, but maybe compact, too.
Can you retract $\Bbb R$ to $[0,\infty)$?
Yes: $x \mapsto 0$ if $x \le 0$ and $x \mapsto x$ if $x \ge 0$ is a retraction.
Right.
It's great when the college changes bus route schedules without warning people.
Did you check their website?
22:57
They send out emails about everything, except apparently bus route schedule changes.
Though, no, I did not check their website.
And I probably shouldn't be complaining in here anyways.
Bingo.
23:24
can entropy only be measured by the standard $H=-\sum p_i \log(p_i)$
Bob
Bob
23:36
In an upper level math class, for an exam, would a table of integrals be given to the students?
In most upper level math classes I've taken you wouldn't really have much need for a table of integrals
Bob
Bob
suppose it was a course in differential equations?
Sometimes tables of Laplace transforms, dunno about tables of integrals.
Bob
Bob
I know somebody who recently took a course in differential equations and he was not allowed to use a calculator or a table of integrals
Ah I didn't take ODEs so idk for sure but to my understanding, even if it's a computational course, they probably don't give things that are way too fancy that you can't just figure it out yourself, no?
Bob
Bob
23:38
well my friend could not and therefore he did bad in the class
I wouldn't allow a table of integrals, either, in a low-level differential equations course. And for upper-level, there wouldn't be much in the way of explicit solving ...
Your friend should have been told before the exam what the situation was.
Bob
Bob
he was but his integration skills are very weak
Well, he should have gotten plenty of practice in the DE course, so that's no excuse.
Bob
Bob
I told him before he took the course he needed to an intense review
23:39
I mean, having weak skills that are relied on in a class is grounds for screwing up that class
And he shouldn't have "cheated" by using calculators/tables on his homework if he knew.
Bob
Bob
he knew
Typically, introductory DE courses are intended explicitly to make sure students learn some of their integral calculus skills (or basic linear algebra, for systems of ODE).
You're not asking us for sympathy, then.
Bob
Bob
I have another friend who will be taking PDE this coming semster
and she has the same problem
it is a graduate level course
That will be a ton of graduate real analysis, if it's really graduate.
Plus knowing Stokes's and Divergence Theorem arguments.
Graduate courses are not typically plug-and-chug, unless it's an engineering course. Undergraduate PDE is ... Separation of variables and Fourier series.
23:42
Now I'm starting to wish I took grad PDE last winter tbh
Bob
Bob
I have a feeling she is going to be in trouble in the course
@Daminark was there one???
Why do people take courses they do not have the preparation for?
Soug had a class, yeah
oh the soug one
23:44
That statement is part of a broader one: I wish I was in the Soug crew right about now
Bob
Bob
well she has the prerequisite on paper but she forgotten a lot of what she has learned
and it is very inconvenient for her to retake the undergraduate course(s)
I mean actually actually idk if I'd have enjoyed it, one of my friends who used to be gung ho about analysis took it and was like meh maybe not this kinda analysis, ever since he's started shifting more toward geometry/topology
Typically, the grad PDE is totally different, @Bob. Far more real analysis and more theoretical.
Bob
Bob
I think this is an applied course for engineers
23:45
Oh ... then she should review the undergrad course seriously. Or she will fail.
yeah idt u wouldve enjoyed the kind of analysis there
Because there would be a slightly higher probability I'd have gotten in here by now :P
It's a semi-ironic wish mostly fueled by pure anxiety
Bob
Bob
@TedShifrin thanks
I am signing off now
have a nice day
My days of anxiety were the typewriter/snail mail days. We all suffered in silence (or to our immediate friends), but I don't remember doing that much.
23:53
i wonder if jin woo got in
It's way early, Eric.
WAY.
Name doesn't ring a bell
he's in the soug group
But as it stands I think I know of 3 people who got in from here
daniel i think
who else?
23:54
You and Philip
ah yeah gaddy
Got into where?
@TedShifrin chicago always sends out a round now
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