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00:28
Hey does anyone know that the notation $p \mathcal{O}_K$ means in algebraic number theory? Our class is doing a smattering about it, and I can't find it defined in our lecture notes
@TrostAft so, if in general, if $r\in R$, then $rR$ is notation for $(r)$, the set of multiples of $R$
Oh it's the principle ideal of $(p)$ of course
The reason you use that notation in algebraic number theory is that you can think about $(p)$ as the ideal it generates in $\mathbb{Z}$ as well as in $\mathcal{O}_K$, so this avoids ambiguity
Got it, thanks very much!
01:11
hi @Eric
01:41
gets out red pen to correct "principle" to "principal"
don't we just wake up every day wondering how the rationals can be countable yet dense in R
and other miracles of life
um, nope
me neither
02:20
expectation is a linear function... from what to what?
from the borel-measruable functions $\Bbb R \to \Bbb R$ to $\Bbb R$?
is the domain a hilbert space...?
Somewhere you need your probability space $\Omega$.
And a random variable on $\Omega$.
right, I'm fixing a random variable $X : \Omega \to \Bbb R$ and then considering $E : g \mapsto E[g(X)]$
Ordinarily, you do $E[X]$.
So what is $g$?
I see
well $g = id$
Pig
Pig
you are fixing a probabiity space $\Omega$, and expectation is the linear operator of measurable functions on $\Omega$ to real/complex/whatever, by integration
02:28
is that a hilbert space?
I mean, for reasonable functions $g$, $g(X)$ is again a random variable. I guess measurable or somethin'.
Why should measurable functions form a Hilbert space?
You need $L^2$ ...
I suppose not all measurable functions are integrable
so actually our operator has a smaller domain
Pig
Pig
but it's still too big to force $f$ in the domain $\to |f|^2$ in the domain
You need square-integrable, not integrable.
so maybe $E : L^2(\Omega) \to \Bbb R$
I need square-integrable for what?
Pig
Pig
02:30
but why would you want a hilbert space?
I haven't thought about probability at this level of technicality.
For a Hilbert Space, Leaky.
because then I would be able to ask if this is a bounded function... lol
Why do you need Hilbert?
Pig
Pig
yea
because they're nice I guess
Pig
Pig
02:31
you probably don't even need completeness
normed vector space would do
However, in probability, one does often want to address $E[XY]$ and $E[X^2]$, etc., so one wants a bit more control.
Hello @Eric again.
@Pig but don't you wake up every day amazed by the beauty of hilbert spaces?
Pig
Pig
lmao
puts a muzzle on Leaky
02:33
holomorphic?
Maybe it's time to think about cooking dinner.
@TedShifrin good idea
can I not remember the formula of the gamma distribution @.@"
im finishing up all my individual statements atm
i am basically done with apps finally
02:36
congrats
You're still pretty early, Eric.
Aren't most deadlines Jan 1?
mumbles something about hypergeometric distribution
for poisson's sake
I never taught that in my probability course.
Definitely did Poisson.
And tried to motivate it.
did you bring fish to the class?
Nope. For you I'd make it poison.
02:44
@TedShifrin almost all are the 15th of next month
Ah, OK, @Eric. I remember not.
@ÉricoMeloSilva so... what's the set with measure 0?
I remember plenty of students who procrastinated and I had recommendations to submit well into the new year.
Well, maybe not plenty.
Oh no ... it's a Demonark.
@LeakyNun it’s a finite set and the measure is the counting measure
"the set with measure 0"????
I'm confuzled.
02:48
cuz i said almost all
oh, good grief.
OK, that's enough for me.
:0
Where?
@TedShifrin mine are all in, no procrastinating for me
i don’t wanna stress myself out the way i usually do
the universal property of absolute is that $|x| \le y \iff -y \le x \le y$
are the similar universal properties for other categories? @MatheinBoulomenos
Ah yeah apps, I'm doing my SoP right now actually
02:51
sum of product?
Statement of purpose
Hey loch!
$$\forall \varepsilon > 0 : \lim_{n \to \infty} \operatorname{Pr}\left( \left| \sum_{i=1}^n X_i - \mu \right| < \varepsilon \right) = 1$$
geometric is a lot of bernoulli
poisson is much more bernoulli
hypergeometric is negative amount of bernoulli
Hi @Daminark
How's it going?
Pretty good - nothing too special
you/?
03:06
is that a slice category
lol
:thonk:
def: a natural number is prim if it is a prime
def: a number is prm if it is both a prim and a prime
def: a number is pm if it is simultaneously prm, prim, and a prime
conjecture: every even integer > 2 is the sum of two pms
04:02
hi
04:50
A natural number is pm if it is simultaneously both a prime and a prime, prime and a prime
 
2 hours later…
07:20
Rewatched the Geometry Center's "Not Knot" video and my god does it get trippy at the end
and I still don't see how to get the complement of a figure eight knot from the two tetrahedra that the Internet says I should be able to do
I guess I'll need to pay more attention to how the video got from the cube to the rhombic dodecahedron so I can reverse the process
(For reference:
)
07:40
0
Q: What does the function $f(x,y)$ reduce to?

The Great DuckWhat does the function $f(x,y)$ reduce to? $$f(x,y) = \lim_{n \to \infty} \sum_{i = 0}^{n} (((x \bmod 2^{i-1})-(x \bmod 2^i)) \cdot ((y \bmod 2^{i-1})-(y \bmod 2^i)) \cdot \frac {1}{2^i})$$

Help
im stuck
 
1 hour later…
08:45
Is there a way to simplify $\dfrac{Av|v|^2}{|Av|^2}$ where $A$ is a matrix and $v$ is a vector?
08:56
Alternatively, is there a way to simplify $\dfrac{uv^\top}{v^\top u}$?
Probably not
though naively I'd want to multiply top and bottom by $u$ and get $\dfrac{uv^\top u}{uv^\top u}$
Oh I see what I did wrong
I was assuming that the inversion of an ellipse is another ellipse with the lengths of the axes inverted
but it actually just gives this shape
In geometry, a hippopede (from Ancient Greek ἱπποπέδη, "horse fetter") is a plane curve determined by an equation of the form ( x 2 + y 2 ) 2 = c x 2 + d y 2 {\displaystyle (x^{2}+y^{2})^{2}=cx^{2}+dy^{2}} ,where...
 
4 hours later…
12:35
scalp a pilgrim for thanks giving
Why are they called fetters instead of footcuffs
Because "unfootcuffed" sounds pretty tepid.
13:03
So I had mistakenly thought that, if $\iota$ is inversion with respect to the unit sphere, then $(A^{-1})^\top=\iota\circ A\circ\iota$
and that's false for reasons related to the hippopede thingy
but now I'm wondering if there is at least some relation between them
Hm, probably not
I need to experiment a bit
Let $y = x$. Then $\frac{dy}{dx} = \frac{y}{x}$. Proof: the d's cancel.
Hey, here's a question. What's the expression for the distance between the point $A\hat\imath$ and the plane $\langle A\hat\jmath,A\hat k\rangle$?
@Fargle Similarly, $\require{cancel}\dfrac{16}{64}=\dfrac{1\cancel6}{\cancel64}=\dfrac14$
Yes, that's what I had in mind.
(Also my statement isn't quite true. Division by zero is a bit of a bug.)
19/95 fits the pattern as well.
And clearly $\frac{\sin x}x=\sin$
sinners
13:16
$\sin n\cdot e^{rs}$
You know, there's an old joke
$\int e^x=f(u_n)$
I mean, I dunno if "joke" is the right word
So by implicit differentiation, if $x^2 + y^2 = 1$, then $\frac{dy}{dx} = -\frac{x}{y}$, and then by cancellation, $\frac{y}{x} = -\frac{x}{y}$, by which $y^2 = -x^2$. Substituting into the original equation, $0 = 1$, QED.
but, like, ha ha, sex = fun
@Fargle Well, I'm convinced.
Perhaps this is what Berkeley was afraid of when he spoke of "the ghosts of departed quantities". Truly spooky.
7 mins ago, by Akiva Weinberger
Hey, here's a question. What's the expression for the distance between the point $A\hat\imath$ and the plane $\langle A\hat\jmath,A\hat k\rangle$?
I've completely forgotten how to do this
but I'm conjecturing $\|(A^{-1})^\top\hat\imath\|^{-1}$
I suppose $(A^{-1})^\top$ should be written $A^{-\top}$
13:41
Quantum physicists are lucky that "quantum" starts with such a qool letter
user131753
14:30
@Astyx I have now written a post regarding it,
user131753
0
Q: What is the reason for the specific assumption on the nature of the variables?

user 170039In Angelo Margaris's book First Order Mathematical Logic we have the following theorem (see pp. 84), The equivalence theorem. Let $U$ and $V$ be two formulas (of First Order Predicate Calculus). Let $P_U$ be a formula in which $U$ occurs as a subformula. Let $P_V$ denote the result of replac...

If $f,g$ are paths between $x$ and $y$ in the topological space $X$, $\overline{f}$ and $\overline{g}$ are the reverse paths, and $\overline{f} \star f$ and $\overline{g} \star g$ are path homotopic, does it follow that $f$ and $g$ are path homotopic?
What's a conformal map from the unit disk in the complex plane to an ellipse?
@user193319 Won't those both be homotopic to the constant path?
(From $x$ to itself)
Do you mean $\overline{f} \star f$ and $\overline{g} \star g$?
I think you're right: they are both path homotopic to the constant path...
Hmmm...The problem I'm working on is the following: Prove that for any $x,y \in S^1$, there are countably many homotopy classes in $S^1$ from $x$ to $y$...
If $A$ denotes the class of all such homotopy classes, my thought was to show that $[f] \mapsto [\overline{f} \star f]$ is an injection from $A$ to $\pi_1(S^1,x)$...but if what you're saying is right, this is definitely not injective...
I've been working on this problem for a week and I still can't figure it out...
Any hints are welcome!
15:08
@user193319 Have you learned the fundamental group?
The fundamental group is the set of paths from $x$ to $x$ (modulo homotopy)
Yes, I have learned that. And I have learned that $\pi_1(S^1,x) \simeq \Bbb{Z}$, which I am somehow suppose to use to solve this problem.
The fundamental group of $S^1$ has infinitely many elements. Let's call them $\alpha$, $2\alpha$, $3\alpha$, … $-\alpha$, $-2\alpha$, $-3\alpha$, …
and $0$ which will be the constant map
These are all paths from $x$ to $x$.
Say you have one path from $x$ to $y$. Call it $f$. We want to generate infinitely many paths from $x$ to $y$.
We can take $\alpha\star f$, $~2\alpha\star f$, $~3\alpha\star f$, etc.
Basically, we take any of our paths from $x$ to $x$ (of which we have infinitely many) and concatenate $f$ onto it.
$\star$ is concatenation, right?
Doing one path and then the other
That's what I take it to mean.
So $n\alpha\star f$, where $n\alpha$ is any element of $\pi_1(S^1,x)$, works
and we have infinitely many of those
We know these are distinct, because if $n\alpha\star f$ equaled $m\alpha\star f$, then $(n\alpha\star f)\star\bar f$ would equal $(m\alpha\star f)\star\bar f$
meaning $n\alpha\star(f\star\bar f)=n\alpha$ would equal $m\alpha\star(f\star\bar f)=m\alpha$
and, unless $m=n$, that's impossible
Okay, so this is a procedure to generate a countable number of such paths. But how do I rule out that the possibility that there are an uncountable number?
That's why I was trying to construct an injection.
15:19
Suppose $F$ is a map from $x$ to $y$
Then $F\star\bar f$ is a map from $x$ to $y$ to $x$… that is, it's a map from $x$ to $x$
Thus, $F\star\bar f$ is in $\pi_1(S^1,x)$
So it equals $n\alpha$ for some $\alpha$
Ah, dang it! Of course...
Thanks for the help!
Thus, $(F\star\bar f)\star f=n\alpha\star f$, or $F=n\alpha\star f$
@user193319 Basically, the bijection is: given a path from $x$ to $x$, star it by $f$ to get a path from $x$ to $y$. Given a map from $x$ to $y$, star it by $\bar f$ to get a path from $x$ to $x$. These are inverses, and so the two sets ($\{\text{paths from $x$ to $x$}\}$ and $\{\text{paths from $x$ to $y$}\}$) are in bijection.
On unrelated news, I was trying to come up with a smoothed version of the $\min(x,y)$ function
and I ended up with $\dfrac1{\sqrt{\frac1{x^2}+\frac1{y^2}}}$
aka $\dfrac{xy}{\sqrt{x^2+y^2}}$
(This is for positive $x$ and $y$)
I wonder if this is "natural" in some sense
like, maybe it's the only "smoothed" version of $\min(x,y)$ under some natural conditions
15:48
It satisfies $ff_{xx}-f_xf_x+ff_{yy}-f_yf_y=1$
That's not a natural condition by any stretch of the imagination but it is a condition
16:09
Hi @Mathei
Hi @Alessandro
Messing around with Desmos
I have a question which should be straightforward but I'm not seeing it. If $X$ is a scheme, $x\in X$, $\mathcal O_x$ the local ring at $x$ with maximal ideal $\mathfrak m_x$ why is is $\mathfrak m_x/\mathfrak m_x^2$ a $\mathcal O_x/\mathfrak m_x$-vector space?
Note that it is an $\mathcal{O}_x$-module that is annihilated by $\mathfrak{m}_x$
a module structure over a ring $R$ on an abelian group $A$ is a ring homomorphism $R \to \mathrm{End}_{\Bbb Z}(A)$, the kernel of that ring homomorphism is the annihilator $\mathrm{Ann}_R(A)$. If $I$ is an ideal contained in $\mathrm{Ann}_R(A)$, by the homomorphism theorem, it factors through $R/I$, so we get an $R/I$-module structure
16:15
In general if $M$ is an $R$ module it is also an $R/\operatorname{Ann}(M)$ module for free
I see, thanks
note how my argument uses the possibly non-commutative ring $\mathrm{End}_{\Bbb Z}(A)$ even if $R$ is commutative :P
Nah, noncommutative rings don't exist
4
16:31
hello
someone know the weak lebesgue spaces?
So, given a triangle in euclidean space with vertices $(x_1,y_1)$, $(x_2,y_2)$, $(x_3,y_3)$, the area of the triangle is apparently given by
$$det\begin{vmatrix}
x_1 & y_1 & 1\\
x_2 & y_2 & 1\\
x_3 & y_3 & 1
\end{vmatrix}$$
(which simplifies to $x_1(y_2 -y_3)+x_2(y_3 -y_1)+x_3(y_1 -y_2)$) However, I don't immediately see why this holds.
(Apparently this is very basic stuff, as it's in section 1, chapter 1 of this book. So, I want to make sure I understand why this is.)
I have a simple question when we write $GF(q^m)$ this is a field that is made by modding a polynomial, correct? What do elements look like in extension fields?
The elements are polynomials
so when a polynomial has a splitting field, it means that the roots of that polynomial are POLYNOMIALS?
17:04
@Maximus the elements are equivalence classes of polynomials, not polynomials themselves
Oh right, thank you
I am curious let's say I have a table of $GF(2^5)$ generated by $\alpha$ where $f(x)=1+x^2+x^5$ and $f(\alpha)=0$
"Polyhedra are just balls with extra information"
- a topologist
@MatheinBoulomenos if I have $\alpha=x$ and a polynomial $g(x)=1+x^3+x^5+x^6+x^8+x^9+x^{10}$ my book says $\alpha$ is a root for this polynomial
$g(x)=(x^5 + x^2 + 1) (x^5 + x^4 + x^3 + x^2 + 1)$
what is that factorization for?
17:15
it implies that $g(\alpha)=0$
I am having trouble understanding how
what are you plugging in
you are plugging in x, correcT?
you know that $1+\alpha^2+\alpha^5=0$
OH DAMN
how did you do the factorization?
my computer, but you could do polynomial division as well
so you just simply long division
17:17
yeah
by the irreducible polynomial that we made the extension field with?
mod 2?
yes, the coefficients are always mod 2
if you want to compute the value of some polynomial $g \in GF(2)[x]$ at $\alpha$, you can always do long division by $f$ and the remainder of that is the value of $g(\alpha)$
I see, so when we have a polynomial and we want to show that some field element is a root, we just long division the irreducible polynomial of the splitting field and see what it factors to?
not necessarily factoring, you get a remainder
so in general, you have $g=qf+r$ with $q,r \in GF(2)[x]$ and the remainder has $r$ has degree less than the degree of $f$
then plugging in $\alpha$ and using that $f(\alpha)=0$ gives you $g(\alpha)=r(\alpha)$
but in the example, you have $r=0$
so let's say we have $\alpha=x^3$ we plug in to f(x), which means $1+x^6+x^{15}=0$ correct?
17:21
what I said just works for $\alpha=x$
since we need that $f(\alpha)=0$
what about other roots
table says alpha=x^3 is also a root for g(x)
how can I check that?
oh sorry, right, it works for any it works for every element $\beta$ that satisfies $f(\beta)=0$
I see. I am having trouble understaning what exactly I plug in to g(x) to see that root actually works
17:24
@AkivaWeinberger , will you please look at this question? User xbh said that all i need to observe $f^{-1}$ is continuous on each point.
But, then, if I apply same approach to function $f$ from $[0,1)\cup[2,3]\to[0,2]$ defined by $f(x)=x$ if $x\in[0,1)$ and $f(x)=x-1$ if $x\in[2,3]$, i.e. apply Th 4.17 mentioned in link for intervals $[c,d]\subset [0,1)$ and $[e,f]\subset[2,3]$, then I have to deduce that this $f$ has continuous inverse. So, where am I (or xbh) wrong?
@MatheinBoulomenos Oh I think i got it So we plug in x^3 in g(x) and we mod by f(x)=1+x^2+x^5 and we should get 0. correct?
@Maximus yeah
@Maximus you can also ignore the polynomial division stuff and work by brue force. All you need to use is that $1+\alpha^2+\alpha^5=0$, which implies that $\alpha^5=-1-\alpha^2$. This allows you to recursively compute all other powers of $\alpha$ as a linear combination of the basis $\{1,\alpha,\alpha^2,\alpha^3,\alpha^4\}$
for example $\alpha^6=\alpha(\alpha^5)=\alpha(-1-\alpha^2)=-\alpha-\alpha^3$
right, thank you so much
$\alpha^7=\alpha(\alpha^6)=\alpha(-\alpha-\alpha^3)=-\alpha^2-\alpha^4$, $\alpha^8=\alpha(\alpha^7)=-\alpha^3-\alpha^5=1+\alpha^2-\alpha^3$
etc.
but if it's the case that $\alpha=x^3$ is a root this implies $1+x^6+x^{15}=0$ correct?
17:30
We know that field has only two ideals that is itself and 0 .So if R is a field then R/R , R/{0} are two homomorphic images of it . It is possible that is can have other homorphic images ?
@Maximus if $\alpha^3$ is a root of $f$, then yes
@MatheinBoulomenos OMG, it worked! I tried it in maple.
Thank you so much
this all works because the remainder is -
0*
since we literally made it 0 by the modding when we made the extension field, correct?
@MatheinBoulomenos I was here during summer a lot and you helped me then too, I dont know if you remember. I noticed you do a lot of abstract algebra and you even have a blog. I am curious. What advice do you have or how do you manage to self study all that stuff on your own.
In terms of knowing whether your solutions are right or wrong.
I'm not exactly only self-studying, I learned a lot of stuff at university, too
17:37
right, but when you study on your own I meant
hmm, difficult to say. If you're unsure you can ask other people, but I guess you just delevop a feeling for errors with some experience
it helped a lot to have some hw graded to delevop that feeling
Hi @Ted
Hi, a @Balarka, @Mathein
Hi @Balarka
Hi @Ted
Hi @Mathein
17:46
@Maximus in general for self-studying it's really helpful to try and explain some ideas to other people, that's a test if you truly understand something
@TedShifrin So I still think my claim from yesterday is true. Your example gives a map $F : \Bbb R^2 \to \Bbb R^2$ such that $F^{-1}(0, 0)$ is the $x$-axis and $f$ doesn't fold along it; that's not too hard to visualize. Just squish the $x$-axis, smoothly. Even $F(x, y) = (xy, y)$ works. But I don't think any map $f : \Sigma \to \Sigma'$ with an isolated critical value $p$ such that $f^{-1}(p) \subset \Sigma$ is a circle can locally look like $F$ around any point on $f^{-1}(p)$.
It's just that $(xy, y^3)$ has a particularly bad critical point at $(0, 0)$, which makes your example interesting in it's own. But I don't think it's relevant.
@MatheinBoulomenos, will you please look at my question above?
@Balarka: Why is it not relevant? Why isn't it a counterexample unless you assume the function has a generic singularity?
@TedShifrin It's not a counterexample because... $F^{-1}(0, 0)$ is not a circle. You could claim that there exists a function $f$ with $f^{-1}(p)$ a circle such that $f$ looks like $F$ on some chart around the circle. But I do not think that is possible.
I am not convinced.
But maybe you're right.
17:53
But thanks for being skeptic though, I appreciate it a lot! I am not entirely clear on the issue and am thinking about it.
There may be a way to globalize this to $S^2\to\Bbb RP^2$ or $\Bbb RP^2\to\Bbb RP^2$.
@Silent the error is that $[0,1) \cup [2,3]$ is not compact
@TedShifrin I think if you projectivize your example, you'll get a map $f$ with $f^{-1}(0)$ a circle, but a tubular neighborhood around it will be a Moebius strip, and $f$, restricted to that, will be the map $M \to M/C \cong D^2$, blowdown of the central circle of the Moebius strip.
$C \subset M$ is the central circle in the Moebius strip
At least, that's the case with $f(x, y) = (xy, y)$. With $(xy, y^3)$ it might be ickier, there may be a cusp involved.
Let's see. If we have $\Bbb RP^2$ as the domain, the normal bundle of the preimage will be determined by the degree of the polynomials.
So you'll get $k$ half-twists if the degree is $k$, I think. I know this is true for a curve in $\Bbb P^2$ defined by a homogeneous polynomial of degree $k$, so this requires thought.
@MatheinBoulomenos yes but so is not $(a,b)$ here, but xbh says that considering $[c,d]\subset(a,b)$ and deducing that $f$ when restricted to $[c,d]$, has continuous inverse is enough to conclude f has continuous inverse on $(a,b)$. But when I apply that approach to $[0,1)\cup[2,3]\to[0,2]$ example, then I am in trouble!
18:00
@MatheinBoulomenos Thank you, that makes sense.
Can anyone explain what is topology of uniform convergence on Homeo+(S1)?
@TedShifrin That sounds right. But I don't think you need to work that hard; $f^{-1}(0, 0)$ in $\Bbb R^2$ is just $y = 0$. If you projectivize it's a $\Bbb{RP}^1 \subset \Bbb{RP}^2$.
That has a Moebius strip normal neighborhood.
Is it the same as compact open topology on it?
Yes.
But you get a metric for free in this case; distance between two self-homeomorphisms of the circle is the sup norm of the two homeomorphisms, in the standard metric on S^1.
@Balarka: I think I believe that when the scheme structure is reduced, but not necessarily otherwise.
18:06
In general if X is a compact space and Y is a metric space, then the "topology of uniform convergence" on C(X, Y) is given by the metric d(f, g) = sup_x d_Y(f(x), g(x)). The topology induced by this is the same as the compact-open topology on C(X, Y).
Free metric in the uniform convergence topology, right? What fact did you use to say that both the topologies in this case are thee same?
Ohh, I'll have a look.
All of this is in Munkres
It's not too hard to work out by hand either
And the standard metric on S1 is arc-length?
Alright, and $X$=$Y$=S1 which is both compact and metric space.
18:14
@Maximus first of all, the pasting lemma doesn't apply to infinite closed coverings (without assuming something like locally finite), if you try to apply the approach that xbh gave to your example, then you run into trouble, because if you take the compact interval $[0,1] \subset [0,2]$, then the inverse image $f^{-1}([0,1])=g([0,1])=[0,1) \cup \{2\}$ is not compact, so you can't apply the theorem
@TedShifrin On a related note, I was reading a little bit about singularity theory properly. It seems the stable singularities for maps between surfaces are just folds and cusps.
I.e., maps with folds and cusps are dense in the space of maps between two given surfaces.
at worst
If you don't already know it, check out Guillemin & Golubitsky, among others.
Yeah I was thinking of reading that book
@Maximus sorry wrong ping
Thank you, @MatheinBoulomenos
18:28
hi, im trying to show that $k[A]$ is not isomorphic to $k[B]$ where $A = \{(x,y) : x^2 + y^2 =1\} , B = \{(x,y) : y=x^2) \ subset \Bbb A ^ 2$.
where $k[Y] = k[x,y]/I(Y)$
$O(2,1)$ has four connected components. First divide it into two parts, first block acting of 2 dim subspace and and the rest on 1-dim subspace. Then consider two more parts by determinant {+-1} in each of these. These are the four components. But I don't know the explicit continuous map that will help me see there are 4 connected comp0nents.
is there any nice way to work with $k[Y]$ ? i mean, is it true that for example $k[A] = \{f(x^2,y^2) : x^2+y^2 =1 , f\in k[x,y]\}$ ?
@Liad: No, that's wrong. $k[A] \cong k[x,y]/(x^2+y^2-1)$.
@TedShifrin i felt it was wrong ^^
18:44
Don't do it all, @Mathein.
BTW, you have an error. For $B$ it's $k[x,x^2]$.
thanks for stoping me
ah right
doesn't change the conclusion, though
Nope. Either way, you have to show $k[x,y]/(x^2+y^2-1)$ can't be isomorphic to a polynomial ring.
@TedShifrin $k[B] $ isomorphic to $k[x,x^2]$ ?
18:46
Sure. Tell me why.
hmm.
maybe looking at a homomorphism
$k[x,y] \to k[z]$
sending $x\to z$ and $y \to z^2$
then the kernal is $(y-x^2)$
then $k[x,y] /(y-x^2) $ is isomorpic to the image which is $k[z,z^2]$ ? @TedShifrin
OK, that's fine. I just think of it this way: when you mod out by the ideal $(y-x^2)$, you set $y-x^2=0$ and hence $y=x^2$.
cool.
is there a nice way to represent $k[x,y] / (x^2+y^2-1)$ ?
Well, @Mathein gave you a slick way.
You could ask him for a hint, since he removed it.
If $k$ is algebraically closed there's a nice trick.
18:54
it is
Or you could just be pedestrian and ask: Could there be an isomorphism $k[t]\cong k[x,y]/(x^2+y^2-1)$?
If there were, you'd have polynomials $f(t)$ and $g(t)$ satisfying what equation?
$f(t)^2 +g(t) ^2 =1 $ maybe?
Right. Can that happen?
it was a guess, why that isomoprhism would imply that?
Figure it out.
19:05
Polynomials or Laurent polynomials?
Oh, wait, I don't think that would change much
I want rational functions
Polynomials. $k[t]$ is polynomial ring.
In any case, you can think of what $\Bbb Q[\pi,\sqrt{1-\pi^2}]$ looks like
You can do it with rational functions, of course. The circle is birational to the line.
Yeah yeah of course
And there's the parallelogram thingy ($(x+y)^2+(x-y)^2=2x^2+2y^2$) also
Oh wait not that one
$(x+y)^2-(x-y)^2=4xy$
That's the one you modify to get Pythagoras
(and also use to show that, if your set is closed under squaring and linear combinations then it's closed under multiplication)
(which I vaguely remember being relevant for Fourier stuff)
Well, you could also use $(x+y)^2-x^2-y^2=2xy$ for that, actually
Whatever, sorry, tangent
@TedShifrin ok i think i got it, but how would that help ?
19:14
Consider a function $f:k[x,y]/\langle x^2+y^2-1\rangle\to k[t]$
ok
If they're isomorphic, then you can take $f$ to be the isomorphism
which means, contrapositively, if there is no such $f$, then they're not isomorphic
sure, but how is that helping in showing $k[A]$ is not isomorphic to $k[B]$
$k[t]$ is none of them
Oh, I didn't scroll up enough in the conversation to see that, sorry
False, $k[t] = k[t, t^2]$.
It's $k[B]$.
19:16
$k[B]$ is $k[x,y]/\langle y-x^2\rangle$?
Ahhh
ahh.. my bad@BalarkaSen
@Silent A big difference is that (most) closed subsets of $(a,b)$ are compact
Try to show that the inverse image in $f$ of a sufficiently small closed neighborhood around a point is compact.
(Using the fact that $f$ is strictly increasing.)
@Silent (Note that, in your counterexample function, the inverse image of a small closed neighborhood of $1$ will look like $[t_0,1)\cup[2,t_1]$, which is closed in $[0,1)\cup[2,3]$ but not compact.)
19:36
@AkivaWeinberger hello, do you know weak lebesgue spaces?
I do not, sorry
19:59
Weird question. When we say that $X \subset F$ where $F$ is some family of subsets, then we are essentially saying that $X$ can be a bunch of elements from $F$? But when we say $X \in F$ we mean that $X$ is only a single element taken from $F$?
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