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18:01
Corned beef is anisotropic. I remember my brother once cut it with the grain rather than against it before serving it, and it was weird to eat
@TedShifrin Je suis heureux d'entendre que votre mère reçoit de l'aide.
oh, meat in general is anisotropic. If you don't slice it against the grain, you get very tough eating.
Pretty sure it was corned beef, anyway. (I'm hungry now)
merci bien, @Stan
sup nerds
18:02
@TedShifrin i am trying to learn french
heya Eric
how goes it
@Stan: If you say "je suis heureux que" you need subjunctive. You cagily avoided that. :P
I've spent 10 minutes trying to figure out how to open a private chat (because Jakes asked). I still don't see it from main.
@TedShifrin I cant even do that in Spanish or italian let alone french 😂
J'adore le subjonctif, @Stan :P
18:03
@TedShifrin il n'y a aucun salon private
@Leaky: privé ... But you always get notified "take this discussion to chat"
I don't mean private ... I mean targeted.
@AkivaWeinberger Now I've got a bit of pattern! I folded it in half and tore diagonally.
How do you get to that conveniently?
In here, I click on your avatar and I have the link.
"all rooms"
18:05
@TedShifrin im taking machine learning. So far the math has been pretty reasonable. We did OLS first week and how to like use polynomials for fitting data sets.
and then scroll to the bottom
Ugh, Leaky. That seems way too convoluted.
those are two steps
Or just change the URL :P
Anyhow, I hope @jakes has read all of this.
18:08
Is there not a button somewhere there?
On the bottom
DogAteMy: Ah, there it is. Nice 'n obvious.
ok, i see it ted
wow, I thought you'd gone to sleep, @JoeShmo.
haha
well i did a few other things too. im not that slow
IF you say so. :)
18:11
Hahahahaha
@JoeShmo How
Well, I grumbled when someone closed as a duplicate a question I'd answered — as it really wasn't. And it's been undone. Miracles.
Wit still sharp i see Ted.
Thanks guys
@AkivaWeinberger Pretty sure love transcends mathematics
18:12
@TedShifrin where r u keeping ur keys these days?
Hahahaha
Huh? @Stan
I'm not the one with Alzheimers ... just yet, @Stan.
Bob
Bob
I was wondering if somebody here could look at my post: math.stackexchange.com/questions/2955619/…
@AkivaWeinberger write $x = \dfrac{z + \bar z}{2}$, $y = \dfrac{z - \bar z}{2i}$ and apply the chain rule to $\dfrac {\partial f}{\partial z}$, $\dfrac {\partial f}{\partial \bar z}$
@TedShifrin That was always why I found it amusing you jokes about the keys so often.
My grandpa has just recently passed some threshold of no return
I don't remember joking about it much at all, @Stan. My sympathies.
I have started making comments about my agedness, it's true.
18:14
C’est la vie I guess
Bob
Bob
Jokes are often subjective
^ so true
Bob
Bob
@TedShifrin You do not seem old to me
jokes are surjective
That too is subjective, @Bob :)
@JoeShmo: That's an example of a joke worth ignoring.
18:16
Yeah my other grandpa still goes to school.
And he’s 86
So u think its relative
there goes my career in comedy
@JoeShmo: The beauty of differential forms is that the chain rule is built in to them. Avoid using it on the differential operators!!
@JoeShmo you can always tell math jokes. Ive heard they’re quite popular with the general public
18:17
It's way easier to just use undetermined coefficients (or an inverse matrix) starting with the forms.
Wow i never noticed that about differential forms
yes, i know. everything reeks (in a good way!) of differential forms here, but i haven't built up my technique well enough last semester
Learn something new everyday
Bob
Bob
When you say undetermined coefficients are you referring to the technique for solving DE?
so im like doing everything right with them, but only sort of
18:19
No, writing $\partial/\partial z = a\partial/\partial x + b\partial/\partial y$, similarly for the other one. Now solve for $a,b,c,d$. It really is an inverse matrix ...
ill have to read differential geometry again in the summer. this rime properly
Or watch a few of my lectures, @JoeShmo.
probably your book
Your lectures are really great, but i understand books better
Bob
Bob
@TedShifrin Do you have your lectures online?
18:19
Yes, @Bob.
See my profile.
heya demonic @Alessandro
Yeah Ted is an online superstar
blah.
LOL, @Alessandro
I think for running me down so often ...
I actually forgot how I became demonic too
My phone really hates editing messages for some reason
Demonark is just demonark
@TedShifrin I think you're right
18:22
«@TedShifrin what kind of music do u listen to these days?
Now you have me scared to visit both Italy and Germany, @Alessandro
still classical, @Stan ... went to a vigorous piano recital the other night
Ooo what pieces?
how vigorous?
Germany is safe, I don't have a car here!
Korean pianist ... at times he definitely was bangy, but other times very nuanced ...
OK, @Alessandro, I'll keep that in mind.
18:23
Nov 21 '17 at 21:45, by Alessandro Codenotti
first demonark, now I am the demonic driver, we're gonna need an exorcist in this chat at this rate
Can always count on DogAteMy to peruse the archives
Bob
Bob
@TedShifrin Thanks for telling me about your video
have a nice day
take care
@TedShifrin I just went to see a string quartet on campus
which one?
18:27
Could we show also that
" $M\cup N$ is finite $\implies$ $M$ and $N$ are finite sets "
as follows?

It holds that $M\subset M\cup N\Rightarrow |M|\leq |M\cup N|$. Since $|M\cup N|$ is finite it follows that |M| is finite.
The same for the set $N$ : $N\subset M\cup N\Rightarrow |N|\leq |M\cup N|$. Since $|M\cup N|$ is finite it follows that |N| is finite.
Some local one I think. I didnt look carefully. My friend just invited me. But they were splendid. They played Haydn, Shostakovich, and Brahms. And for an encore Webern
oh nice ...
@MaryStar This is identical to hobo's proof, because the definition of || is that there exists a bijection
The contrast between Haydn and Shostakovich was a bit jarring because his piece was a bit darker. And the use of the instruments so radically different i feel like it would have been better to do Haydn Brahms Shostakovich
@MaryStar sure. this seems like the most straight forward proof of fact.
18:28
But the pieces were exceptionally executed
Ah ok! Thank you!! :-)
The Brahms was probably the longest, so they left it alone for the latter half.
heya @MikeM
Very true, maybe that is why
18:29
$M\subset M\cup N\Rightarrow |M|\leq |M\cup N| < \infty$
@TedShifrin My friend wanted to go for her class so it was fun explaining some aspects of classical music she’d never experienced before. Its cool seeing someone enjoy it for the first time
Very cool, @Stan. I'm sure you did a great job :)
Hahahaha I try my best. @TedShifrin Im not tutoring math this quarter. I dont know if I should do it again. I felt like it was a waste of time last year. The kids like me more because I make them laugh and I seemed to make no impact on their actual love for math, even though they did perform better.
As a unit collectively they resist developing enthusiasm
I know how you feel.
What grade/level?
18:33
7th / 8th so 12-13 year olds
Their favorite things to do are eat gossip and sleep
Sounds like college students :P
Hhahahahhahahahahahahhaa
Omg
I like to eat.
I don't like sleeping though.
We won't discuss your bad eating habits, @CaptainAmerica.
@TedShifrin And I feel like there’s little point to tutoring at the high or middle school I attended because those students already have every advantage you could ask for, even if they would be more motivated
@TedShifrin so what motivates u to teach?
18:36
@TedShifrin I told you I'm trying to change ;-; But now Burger King has 10 nuggets for a dollar. I didn't know what to do.
Love for the subject?
Stan, I tried to get a gig volunteering to help at-risk students, and no one would let me .... so now I'm teaching the very pampered AoPS kids. But at least they're interested in learning math.
ROFL, CaptainAmerica. Just don't tell me.
you must struggle every day to be the man you want to be
18:36
Thats kind of where im at
To whom is that addressed, Mike?
Wait no @MikeMiller lolol
I wish someone would be willing to mentor me. I love math, but I don't have anyone.
The sarcasm level depends on whom.
Hahahaha i should use the @
18:37
You have all of us, CaptainAmerica.
You can teach me, @TedShifrin
I'm at-risk... of failing
Ha ha.
@TedShifrin out of practice in math chat
@TedShifrin captainamerica but it applies to every human being
oh ...
18:38
I have learned a lot here.
@TedShifrin Where do the college students you know find time to sleep?!
@TedShifrin who’s your favorite classical composer?
Hey, you know this geometric proof of the 2x2 determinant formula?
@Alessandro: The ones who took my classes claimed I made it difficult. But most students at UGA partied an awful lot.
Also this
Conjecture: No such proof is possible in 3D.
18:39
DogAteMy: I've done similar things in my lectures. But my favorite for the $2\times 2$ determinant uses the dot product formula.
@AlessandroCodenotti i slept 4 h every day for the past week. caught up with 12 tonight
Ooh, geometric proofs. The only one I've ever done was one of the Pythagorean theorem.
@TedShifrin How does it go?
@MikeMiller I've heard it's not possible to catch up on sleep.
rotate one of the vectors $\pi/2$, DogAteMy, and use $a\cdot b = \|a\|\|b\|\cos\theta$.
18:40
@MikeMiller You're turning into Balarka
(And the reason I say you can't do it in 3D is related to that cutting-and-rearranging theorem)
Hilbert's 3rd, or maybe it was the 4th
@AlessandroCodenotti if u sleep ur a cop dont @ me
i don't know what that means. if you reliably undersleep you'll continually feel exhausted. if you sleep a good amount you will not feel exhausted any more the next day. i'm not claiming the last week was healthy, just that for once i no longer feel exhausted.
DogAteMy: That's actually in chapter 1 of my book.
Ah, I see.
Also doesn't work for 3D :P
18:42
No, you need base times height for 3D.
@MikeMiller I guess I don't really know what it means either.
4 hours is fine once, but for a whole week I need at the very least 6 hours per night on average
But you can do the shearing argument fine.
That's true
(for the record sleep is good and im bitter bc life makes it hard)
18:43
yes
@Secret @JoeShmo The statement with the intersection is false, isn't it?

I mean " $M\cap N$ is finite $\implies$ $M$ and $N$ are finite sets " is not true, or not? To find a counterexample do we take one of M or N as an infinite set and the other one as a finite example that contains just some elements of the infinite set?
Sleep or weep
I've ruined sleep for myself. I've been on YouTube/Netflix until 3am every night for the past 4 days. Then I spend my day doing math. It's hard to break the cycle and it's cutting into to my time spent on my boring classes.
@MaryStar correct. counter example?
I mean, in arbitrary dimensions you'll get an irritatingly large formula that seems to me to make geometric proofs unnatural, other than the usual "volume is an n-form" argument
18:43
That's my slogan, I'm gonna spray paint it on walls now
ah yeah. you gave one. sure
@CaptainAmerica16 i get this but now is the time in your life where you'll be able to stop yourself before permanently creating bad habits
@MaryStar can you give a concrete counter example?
I'm actually sleeping way more and better now that I have no internet in the dorm
Nonnegatives, nonpositives
18:44
For example $M=\mathbb{N}$ and $N=\{1,2,3\} then $M\cap N=\{1,2,3\}$, right? @JoeShmo
though i understand because when i was a kid i hated sleep for how it cut into my doing things time
it's just, that's the wrong framing
@MaryStar sure. that's right.
i just want you to internalize the important things now
like also never trust the police
@MikeMiller I know. You sound like Ted and my mom. I wish the sun stayed up longer...and I didn't have to take English.
@Eric: You just like being bitter!
18:45
@MikeMiller hell ya bro
@MikeMiller ACAB?
@CaptainAmerica: English is great! So are other languages. You can't do mathematics if you can't write decently.
(I suppose the question form of that is AACB)
So, to disprove the statement " $M\cap N$ is finite $\implies$ $M$ and $N$ are finite sets " is it enough to give a counterexample? @JoeShmo
@TedShifrin ur not wrong
18:46
Oh my gosh.
Hey everyone
Sometimes I like to call A CAB
@Eric: I'm more perceptive than I appear. :P
@MaryStar of course. the implication doesn't hold!
18:46
hi Perturb
hot take: English is a better subject than math
@MikeMiller That's a very american thing to say
Hi @TedShifrin :)
@EricSilva What about Portuguese
portuguese is better than english
18:47
@MaryStar, how do you prove $A \implies B$ is false?
@AlessandroCodenotti I'd imagine in Turkey you wouldn't trust the police either
for example
@Eric: The guy who cuts my hair is Portuguese-American, and I promised to cook him his favorite dish.
@EricSilva I laughed. That is a subjective statement. English is one of my lowest grades right now and I spend hours on it every week.
@CaptainAmerica16 then focus your efforts on maths :P
Spend more hours instead of goofing off here, @CaptainAmerica.
@Leaky: In the US that's very bad advice.
18:48
meh
I can't write essays… This will bite me when I'm in college
i did preface w "take" but also english is good to learn well
@TedShifrin is his favorite dish a portuguese one
DogAteMy: You can still improve.
@CaptainAmerica16 What level of English? I mean are you learning the language or are you analyzing litterature?
im a big fan of portuguese food
18:48
Yes, @Eric.
is it one of the millions of cod dishes
A pork, chorizo, seafood stew. I researched recipes and have a good idea of what to do.
"The Oxford dictionary defines 'essay' as…"
not "assay" :P
("…Thanks for coming to my TED talk")
18:49
@TedShifrin But...this is more fun ;-;
uh huh
@TedShifrin oh ho ho what's it called
i dont think ive ever had pork, chorizo, or seafood
@JoeShmo negation of B $\implies$ negation of A, right?
@TobiasKildetoft Language and Composition
18:50
Oh, he told me the Portuguese name, but I don't remember, @Eric. Maybe I can find it.
Like, vocab?
Never expected myself to say this but some of the exercises on classifying groups of finite order are really cool
@CaptainAmerica16 Composition of what?
Basically how authors use language to convey meaning.
@JoeShmo: If you keep kosher, most likely not.
18:50
@Perturbative Careful, there's a monster
kosher-esque
Not me, obviously.
@TobiasKildetoft functions
@AkivaWeinberger Badum tss
no portugese dinners for me i suppose
18:51
@Eric: Alentejana.
@TobiasKildetoft Analyzing Nonfiction, I don't even understand the question. I have no idea what we're composing ;-;
@CaptainAmerica16 I mean, are we talking English for people already fluent, or for beginners, or... ?
I guess the way you'd present your ideas
Rhetoric
@TobiasKildetoft Already fluent.
18:52
oh hell ya @Ted ive had it
quite gud
What do you get when you cross a joke with a rhetorical question?
@MaryStar not quite. what you have on there is the so called contrapositive statement; which is equivalent to the original statement.
Well, come on over when I make it, Eric :)
@AkivaWeinberger A joke.
$A \implies B \iff \neg B \implies \neg A$
18:53
with no response. (no one laughs)
I feel like you want parentheses there
Agreed, DogAteMy.
Impossible to parse.
@TedShifrin yaa
fair
$(A\Rightarrow B)\iff(\lnot B\Rightarrow A)$
18:53
oops
$(A \implies B) \iff (\neg B \implies \neg A)$
I think the shorter arrows are better, too, @JoeShmo.
i noticed @Ted, there were like a ton of portuguese/brazilian places in cambridge when i went there this summer
now youre just playing favorites
That's new, @Eric. I don't remember much from the 60s and 70s.
18:54
Ok!! Thank you!!
Bitch to your heart's content, @JoeShmo :P
To prove $A \implies B$ is false, one ought to prove $A \wedge \neg B$
where $\wedge$ is the logical "and" operator
@TedShifrin :P
Yup. Negating implications was one of the hard lessons when I taught Intro to Higher Math.
$$\sum_{n=-\infty}^\infty z^n = \sum_{n=0}^\infty z^n + \sum_{n=1}^\infty z^{-n} = \frac{1}{1-z} + \frac{z^{-1}}{1-z^{-1}} = \frac{1}{1-z} + \frac{1}{z-1} = 0$$
18:56
i always knew a lot of ppl from the boston area lusophone community growing up tho
Well, @Eric: Huge Portuguese immigrant population in Rhode Island. ... But I don't remember restaurants back then.
but im young so
@LeakyNun Alternatively: it doesn't change when you multiply it by $z$ :P
In fact, my haircutter friend is from the Providence area originally.
one thing i noticed there was that all the euro-portuguese restaurants were staffed by brazilians lol
which was weird
18:57
@Leaky: It's always good to write crap and not worry whether it makes sense.
My mom made ground turkey spaghetti and it tastes like outside.

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