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00:23
Good morning! Have math-tacular Thursday, everyone! :)
It's 03.24 here, midnight.
But good morning :)
00:59
What are alternative blogging platforms to Wordpress that support $\LaTeX$?
I'm using pelican. It has MathJax plugin. 280sloppy.github.io
@AbdullahUYU Nice, never knew about that. I'll check it out! Thanks.
You're welcome. It's so simple to use, you write blogposts in markdown and python/pelican converts them to static html pages. Then you update your content. @Symposium
@AbdullahUYU Is it free?
01:09
Excellent!
In that track, there are a lot of alternatives. Ruby's Jekyll, for example. staticgen.com Here is a list of them.
And github's pages service can be used freely to host your site. I'm using it in the very example.
is this loss?
2
01:42
[Random]
Given a confuuration of vectors in their initial positions {vi} and final positions {vf}, let T{vi}=vf. Then a linear regression of T can be computed by taking the linear regression of matrices that maps each vi to vf
02:38
Is there a continuous function ℚ → ℝ that doesn't have a continuous extension ℝ → ℝ?
Try this easier problem: is there a continuous function (R \ 0) -> R that doesn't have a continuous extension?
No?
Wait, maybe, lemme think.
03:05
1/|x|?
But it seems like the issue is that ℚ is dense in ℝ.
So at least that makes it harder.
03:19
Oooh, I got it, thanks.
@bjb568 $\Bbb R-\{0\}$ is denser!
My head was the real dense thing in this case.
LOL, OK.
Can you see what slight change to make so that your question becomes true?
1/|x - sqrt(2)|, right?
Sure ... But I'm asking you to fix it so that there will be a continuous extension. Slight change to hypothesis.
03:27
oh, if it's just a continuous function with a continuous extension, then f(x)=x should qualify, right?
I'm asking for a condition that guarantees you'll have a continuous extension, not an example.
would it be accurate to say that logic underlies sets, and sets underly functions?
i'm trying to find a way to define/explain everything without getting circular
I think I learned in class that uniform continuity is the condition.
There you go, @bjb568. Try to prove it.
Logic and sets underlie all of math, @user525966.
 
2 hours later…
05:22
well taking ZFC as a foundation is more of a historical artifact
ok I am stuck, I want to try to formally write a congruence relation (as the end goal) it being satisfied when the value of $a_n$ is $0$, the corresponding incongruence relation being satisfied if $a_n$ is equal to anything but $0$, but I want to know how I can state that that otherwise is in specific always going to be on algebraic term that is the product of some natural number $k_n$ and natural logarithm of some prime $p_j$
$$[2\,\ln \left( 5 \right) ,0,4\,\ln \left( 7 \right) ,0,4\,\ln
\left( 11 \right) ,0,0,0,7\,\ln \left( 13 \right) ,0,9\,\ln \left(
17 \right) ,0,0,0,12\,\ln \left( 19 \right) ,0,14\,\ln \left( 23
\right) ,0,0,0,17\,\ln \left( 29 \right) ,0,0,0,0,0,21\,\ln \left(
31 \right) ,0,22\,\ln \left( 37 \right) ,0,0,0,0,0,27\,\ln \left( 41
\right) ,0,0,0,30\,\ln \left( 43 \right) ]
$$
sorry may I please have suggests or help there please thankyou
so not the congruence relation itself, I need help with how I formally write the details out as I have described above in reference to some arbitrary congruence relation
always going to be one and only one* algebraic term, that is the product of some natural number etc etc
 
1 hour later…
06:59
@TobiasKildetoft I found a missing bit (Physics SE helped). I am in fact searching for a representation that represents the highest order rotation itself (the axis direction is irrelevant but the order must be the peculiar $n$). So what I am actually searching for is the homomorphism $G\to G/<R_z>$ with $R_z$ being the highest order rotation!
@Rudi_Birnbaum I am not sure I see the relation between a representation of the rotation and a homomorphism to that quotient, which kills the rotation
07:12
For $a\in \mathbb{R}$ let $A\in \mathbb{R}^{4\times 4}$ the matrix \begin{equation*}A=\begin{pmatrix}2 & 2 & 3 & 4 \\ 1 & 3 & 3 & 4 \\ 1 & 2 & 4 & 4 \\ a & 2a & 3a & 4a+1\end{pmatrix}\end{equation*}
Let $\Phi=\Phi_A:\mathbb{R}^4\rightarrow \mathbb{R}^4$ the endomorphism of $\mathbb{R}^4$, that is given by $v\mapsto \Phi (v):=A\cdot v$.

I want to show that $1$ is an eigenvalue of $\Phi$ and to determine the dimension of the corresponding eigenspace $\text{Eig}(\Phi, 1)$.

To show that $1$ is an eigenvalue do we have to show that $\det (\Phi -1\cdot I)=0$ ?
@MaryStar Why do you expect that to be the case (or why would you expect it not to be the case?)
@TobiasKildetoft What do you mean?
@MaryStar I mean that you presumably did not guess that this what what you needed at random. So why did you guess precisely this?
In general to calulate an eigenvalue $\lambda$ we calculate $\det (A-\lambda \cdot I)=0$, so do we not have to verify that this holds in this case for $\lambfa=1$ ? @TobiasKildetoft
@MaryStar well, there is your answer.
07:27
Great! How can we determine the dimension of the corresponding eigenspace $\text{Eig}(\Phi, 1)$ ? @TobiasKildetoft
@TobiasKildetoft Lets look at $A_4$ it has one three-dimensional irrep. Which is the normal subgroup of $A_4$ to which this irrep corresponds?
@Rudi_Birnbaum Do you mean the kernel of the irrep (i.e. those group elements that act trivially)?
@MaryStar Same way you always do that
@TobiasKildetoft As far as I know there is a correspondence between the irreps and normal subgroups $N$ via faithful representations of $G/N$.
@Rudi_Birnbaum Not quite. There is a correspondence between irreps with kernel $N$ and irreps of $G/N$
@TobiasKildetoft It holds that $\text{Eig}(\Phi, 1)=\ker (A-I_4)$, right?
07:34
@MaryStar does it?
Do we not get that by definition? @TobiasKildetoft
You tell me. You are the one with whatever textbook is used for this.
@TobiasKildetoft is there anything that relates the highest order rotation in $A_4$ to the three-dimensional irrep?
@TobiasKildetoft I would say that it is. To calculate the dimension do we use the formula $dim(\ker (A-I_4))+dim(im (A-I_4))=dim(\mathbb{R^4})$ ?
07:44
@MaryStar that is a formula which might give the answer, yes.
@TobiasKildetoft It should relate also one of the two three dimensional irreps from the icosahedral group ($n$=60) with the five-fold rotations in there.
@TobiasKildetoft and the two dimensional irreps in $C_3*$ with the threefold rotation. What is it???
take me h o m e
to the p l a c e
i b e l o n g
@Rudi_Birnbaum Well, the latter is just because there is only that rotation.
@TobiasKildetoft I mean the traces of the rotations are $1-2 \cos \frac{2\pi}{n}$. And these are the characters of THAT irrep (for $n=$ the highest order).
@LeakyNun West-Virginia?
07:48
@Rudi_Birnbaum Well, those are the values of the character on those rotations in the group (remember that the character has a value for each group element)
Yes, so thats not enough information yet?
Can one make sense somehow out of "The degeneracy which is generated by the highest order rotation."? And by "degeneracy" I mean the cardinal of the dimension of an irrep.
@TobiasKildetoft We have that $(A-I_4)x=0$, where $x=(x_1, x_2, x_3, x_4)^T$. We have that at the matrix $A-I_4$ all the rows are multiples of the first one. Then we get the equation $x_1+2x_2+3x_3+4x_4=0\Rightarrow x_1=-(2x_2+3x_3+4x_4)$. So since we have to write $x_1$ as a linear combination of 3 elements, we get that $dim(\ker (A-I_4))=3$. Is this correct?
@MaryStar @TobiasKildetoft you're probably complicating things
$A-I_4$ can be reduced to RREF quite quickly
@LeakyNun I am not really paying attention to the details
08:03
fair enough
@TobiasKildetoft for example in group $I$ order=60, the very irrep is $T_1$ ibb.co/j6kBCp . What connects that irrep uniquely with the five-fold rotation?
Hello there, I have a question
So this is the problem that was given: If $A$ is a $5 \times 5$ invertible matrix and that $A^{-4} = 3A^T$, compute for $\det \, A$.

What I did was since $A$ is invertible, then $\det A^{-1} = \frac{1}{\det A}$ and since $\det (AB) = \det A \det B$ this should give

$$
\begin{align}
\det \left(A^{-4} \right) & = \det \left(3 A^T \right) \\
\left(\det A^{-1}\right)^4 & = 3^5 \det A^T \\
\left(\frac{1}{\det A} \right)^4 & = 3^5 \det A^T \\
1 & = 3^5 \left(\det A \right)^5 \\
1 & = \det A
\end{align}
@LeakyNun Reducing the matrix $A-I_4$ into echelon form, we get just one row. What do we get from that?
@MaryStar the pivot columns form a basis for the column space; you can also find a basis of the null space that would correspond to the non-pivot columns
so dim Col (A-I) = 1 and dim Nul (A-I) = 3
08:23
Ah we have that Col(A-I)=Span({1,2,3,4}) and so dim(Col(A-I)) = 1 and from the dimension formula we get dim(ker(A-I))=3. From that it implies that $\dim(E(\Phi,1))=3$, right? @LeakyNun
yes
@Aldon don't press the code thing
@Rudi_Birnbaum wat befalltet dir
Then I want to choose a basis of the eigen space $Eig(\Phi,1)$. For that do we have to calculate the kernel? @LeakyNun
sure
remember that if B is the RREF of A, then Ax=0 iff Bx=0
08:27
thank you @LeakyNun, but what code thing?
@Aldon before you sent the message, you either pressed Ctrl+K or fixed font
don't press either of those
ah i pressed fixed font but i don't know what t does
it*
please send the message again
If $A$ is a $5 \times 5$ invertible matrix and that $A^{-4} = 3A^T$, compute for $\det \, A$.

What I did was since $A$ is invertible, then $\det A^{-1} = \frac{1}{\det A}$ and since $\det (AB) = \det A \det B$ this should give

$$
\begin{align}
\det \left(A^{-4} \right) & = \det \left(3 A^T \right) \\
\left(\det A^{-1}\right)^4 & = 3^5 \det A^T \\
\left(\frac{1}{\det A} \right)^4 & = 3^5 \det A^T \\
1 & = 3^5 \left(\det A \right)^5 \\
1 & = \det A
\end{align}
$$

wherein $\det A = \det A^T$ in the second to the last line. I'm not entirely sure if what I did was correct, particularly in the
yeah that's better
08:30
what changed exactly?
@Aldon Now the math actually renders
well our latex renderer can render this
(see room description)
@Aldon your first and second lines are correct, but the last line is not quite good
@Aldon Your last line is wrong
and also you should state that $A$ is a real matrix
1/3 right? Thanks
08:31
yes
@LeakyNun Then we get $x_1+2x_2+3x_3+4x_4=0$ and so $x_1=-2x_2-3x_3-4x_4$. So is the kernel $\{x \mid x_1=-2x_2-3x_3-4x_4\}$ ?
but you can parametrize it
or else you still don't have a basis
@Aldon assuming the matrix is real, yes (for complex matrices, you get more solutions).
@LeakyNun I have a "problem" that is extremely important for my research, but it seems I do not get ahead with the underlying maths. Its the stuff I discuss here.
08:34
and that makes me cry occasionally :'(
@Rudi_Birnbaum I don't really see any way to distinguish the irreps $T_1$ and $T_2$ in that picture
They seem to only differ essentially by a labelling of the conjugacy class of order $5$ elements
and neither choice of conjugacy class seems more natural than the other, though I suppose the embedding of the group as a group of linear transformations might change that
@TobiasKildetoft when I represent the rotations as $3x3$ matrices I expect for a five-fold rotation a different trace than for its square, right?
@Rudi_Birnbaum For this group, yes. In general, no.
@TobiasKildetoft Yes, but the "square thing" applies not for all groups.
@TobiasKildetoft Might it be that its somehow about $3\times3$ matrix representations?
@TobiasKildetoft In group $O$ its also T$_1$ : gernot-katzers-spice-pages.com/character_tables/O.html
We get $\left \{x\mid x_2\begin{pmatrix}-2 \\ 1 \\ 0 \\ 0\end{pmatrix} + x_3\begin{pmatrix}-3 \\ 0 \\ 1 \\ 0\end{pmatrix}+x_4\begin{pmatrix}-4 \\ 0 \\ 0 \\ 1\end{pmatrix}\right \}$

Then showing that the vectors $\begin{pmatrix}-2 \\ 1 \\ 0 \\ 0\end{pmatrix}, \begin{pmatrix}-3 \\ 0 \\ 1 \\ 0\end{pmatrix}, \begin{pmatrix}-4 \\ 0 \\ 0 \\ 1\end{pmatrix}$ are linearly independent we get that these form the basis, or not? @LeakyNun
08:42
the set notation is not very good
$\left \{x_2\begin{pmatrix}-2 \\ 1 \\ 0 \\ 0\end{pmatrix} + x_3\begin{pmatrix}-3 \\ 0 \\ 1 \\ 0\end{pmatrix}+x_4\begin{pmatrix}-4 \\ 0 \\ 0 \\ 1\end{pmatrix} \middle| x_2, x_3, x_4 \in \Bbb R \right \}$
and you don't need to show that they are linearly independent, it's a theorem that the non-pivot columns will give linearly independent vectors
@Rudi_Birnbaum Hmm, I don't have an example handy of a group with an element of order $5$ which is conjugate to its square and which has an irrep of dimension $3$.
So it might be the dimension $3$ thing that is really important here.
@TobiasKildetoft I have understood that for that very irrep all group elements of the same type have the same character. Say if we have two different types of $C_2$ elements the one irrep has the same character for all those.
@TobiasKildetoft Like here in $O$.
@Rudi_Birnbaum Well, there you have some characters that can distinguish the elements of order two, and some that can't
@TobiasKildetoft $\langle x,y \mid x^5=1, yxy^{-1}=x^2 \rangle$ lol
but I don't know about its irreps
@LeakyNun Does that have an irrep of dimension $3$?
(that one is not even finite)
08:46
it is
Ah ok! So we have a basis of Eig(Φ,1).
Then to extend this to a basis B of $\mathbb{R}^4$ we have to find one more vector that is linearly independent to the three vectors that we have now, right? How can we find this vector? @LeakyNun
it's also a theorem that Col A^T and Nul A are orthogonal complements
@TobiasKildetoft Sorry, yes you are right. Here the example gernot-katzers-spice-pages.com/character_tables/D4h.html its A$_{2g}$ here.
@LeakyNun There is a semidirect product between $C_5$ and $\mathbb{Z}$ that satisfies those relations.
nvm I didn't specify the order of y
08:48
exactly
well infinite groups also have irreps right
Maybe if you set $y^{12} = 1$ you get an irrep of dimension $3$.
o..o
maybe. just maybe.
Hmm, no, because then $y^4$ commutes with $x$ which gives a central element of order $3$, which excludes an irrep of dimension divisible by $3$.
(since $3$ divides the order and $9$ does not).
@Rudi_Birnbaum I think I got lost a bit now. What property were we looking at in these tables?
08:55
We look at the column "Rot" at the right. And then we check for which irrep the check="T" is at the third position. Thats the line with the irrep we search for.
what is $O$ ?
group of order 24
we call it "octahedral group" it corresponds to a "chiral" octahedron.
there are 15 groups of order 24 up to isomorphism
an octahedron with orientations on the edges (I suppose).
@mercio here you have other names for it en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_group#Three_dimensions
Any ideas on "Sternbergs linearisaton theorem" ?
08:58
@mercio "O" is the name in Schönflies notation.
that doesn't enlighten me at all
Coxeter notation would be $[3,4]^+$

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