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04:00 - 15:0015:00 - 00:00

15:00
god help us if students are confused about changing bases
Hmm let me try and be more formal. So pick $p \in \mathbb{R}^n$, then we have the tangent space at $p$ which is $T_p(\mathbb{R}^n)$ as usual with basis $$\left\{\frac{\partial}{\partial x^1}\bigg|_p, \dots, \frac{\partial}{\partial x^n}\bigg|_p\right\}$$. Now let $\varphi : \mathbb{R}^n \to \mathbb{R}^n$ be a vector space isomorphism, what I want to know is that do we need $\varphi$ to be a diffeomorphism in order for the tangent space at $T_{\varphi(p)}$ to have basis
$$\left\{\frac{\partial}{\partial x^1}\bigg|_{\varphi(p)}, \dots, \frac{\partial}{\partial x^n}\bigg|_{\varphi(p)}\right\}$$
a vector space isomorphism is always a diffeomorphism
are $x_1, \ldots, x_n$ the name of the coordinates of the first $\Bbb R^n$ ?
Ahhh derp I see
@mercio Yep
Basically like you said earlier I want to know how the tangent space and cotangent space transform under a diffeomorphism from R^n to R^n
well the first step is to not give the same name to the coordinates of the second $\Bbb R^n$
I'm tempted to say that one of the transformation is given by the Jacobian of $\varphi$ and the other by the transpose of the Jacobian
Is that not the case @mercio
15:06
well
I haven't said which one was which nor which way it goes
Because I'm pretty sure something similar was done in my class
if you call $y_i$ the coordinates of the target space
and if $f$ is a function from the target $\Bbb R^n$ to $\Bbb R$
uuuh
then $d(f \circ \phi)/dx_i = \sum_j df/dy_j d\phi_j/dx_i$
Hmm I'm not sure I understand that fully @mercio, why are you using the differential there?
so $T\varphi(d/dx_i) = \sum_j d\phi_j /dx_i d/dy_j$
Can I explain quickly how we did it in my class?
15:12
as I predicted, now it turns into a hot mess of different notations
lol
the issue becomes knowing the concrete definition of the Jacobian if I want to know if it is the Jacobian or the transpose of the Jacobian
Basically my lecturer did the following : 1. wrote new co-ordinates as functions of old co-ordiantes 2.applied chain rule 3. summed over something 4. out popped a jacobian
yeah
I applied the chain rule too so I must be right o..o
15:14
chain rule ftw
But like I took a look at Lee's Introduction to Smooth Manifolds for an explanation of this , and like there's no jacobian to be seen
The jacobian pops up for the differentials which are part of the cotangent space
and $T\varphi(dy_i) = \sum_j d\varphi_i/dx_j dx_j$ and I'm probably missing a star somewhere because I never know if it's in a superscript or lowerscript
so tangent bundle is a covariant functor and cotangent bundle is contravariant
amazing, the naming conventions match
naming contraventions
so the tangent map has matrix $J$ and is from the tangent space at $x$ to the tangent space at $\varphi(x)$
and the cotangent map has matrix transpose of $J$ and is from the cotangent space at $\varphi(x)$ to the cotangent space at $x$
Hello, does anyone here know about semi direct products? I've noticed the statement "U(n) is isomorphic to semi direct product of SU(n) and U(1)"
But I thought if something is a semidirect product of N and K, then N and K must both be subgroups of the same group? Which isnt true for SU(n) and U(1)? What is wrong here?
depending on how you actually define $J$
15:25
have you tried wikipedia or any book on group theory?
I've tried wikipedia and thats exactly where I have seen it said that both groups need to be subgroups of some common group
outer semidirect products exist on the same page
Which from what I see also require N and H to be subgroups of G (If G is semidirect product of N and H). Or am I missing something?
yes, please read
I see it says "given any (even unrelated) groups N and H", but I thought it was meant in a sense as in "doesnt need to have a trivial intersection". The sentence before that one (and the first sentence in outer semi direct product section) says they need to be subgroups of the same group
15:29
Just ignore the previous paragraph
Never mind, I think I see it now. It is after all in this sentence where the new semi direct product operation is defined
I should define $J$ as the matrix you get when you smash the tangent space basis at $x$ into the transpose of the cotangent space basis at $\varphi(x)$
yeah, I think you lose half the class if you use the word "smash"
Oh wait (mini mindblown moment) so the differential (tangent map) takes tangent vectors from $x$ to $\varphi(x)$
......
15:39
@mercio What do you mean by "smash" the tangent space basis?
well via $\varphi$
the tangent space basis at $x$ is the column vector made of the $d/dxi$
the transpose of the cotangent space basis at $x$ is the row vector made of the $dxi$
and when you "multiply" the two, you are supposed to get the identity matrix
so for $J$ you take the $d/dxi$, the $dy_i$ and you do the same o..o'
Wait are you using $d/dx^i$ to denote the partial derivative functions?
sometimes
if you use that $(d/dxi) = J (d/dyi)$ you get $(d/dxi) t(dyj)= J (d/dyj) t(dyj) = J$ and if you use that $(dyj) = tJ (dxi)$ you also get $(d/dxi) t(dyj)= (d/dyj) t(dyj) J = J$
Okay let me take some time to go through all of what you said @mercio
Thanks for all your help!
I'm not sure I'm helping you should look into a real textbook written by somewhat who knows what he is doing
but yeah elements of a tangent space are "meant" to be applied to elements of the cotangent space to give a number
with the canonical basis, if you take all the pairs, you get the identity matrix
and if you assume that $\varphi$ induces a covariant map between tangent spaces and a contravariant map between cotangent spaces, well this calculation says that the matrices have to be transpose of each other in order for things to make a bit of sense
anf if yo uwant to do a partial differentiation
er
to apply an element of the tangent space to a function
you apply it to the differential of that function
16:01
@mercio Ohh okay okay I think I understand more now thanks for that
16:23
@JakeRose . Things still going with Python?
17:21
tensorn't
ugh old people
17:50
Find the field inside and outside a sphere of radius
$R$, which carries a uniform volume charge density $\rho$.

[![enter image description here][1]][1]

We have $$\frac{dq}{dV}=\rho $$. Then by symmetry, $$d\vec{E}=\frac{1}{4\pi \epsilon_0}\frac{\rho (z-r\cos \theta) dV}{(r^2+z^2-2rz\cos \theta)^{3/2}}\hat{z}$$
$$\vec{E}=\frac{1}{4\pi \epsilon_0}\int_{r=0}^{R}\int_{\theta=0}^{\pi}\int_{\phi=0}^{2\pi}\frac{\rho (z-r\cos \theta) dV}{(r^2+z^2-2rz\cos \theta)^{3/2}}\hat{z}$$

$$\vec{E}=\frac{1}{4\pi \epsilon_0}\int_{r=0}^{R}\int_{\theta=0}^{\pi}\int_{\phi=0}^{2\pi}\frac{\rho (z-r\cos \theta) r
@JakeRose Am I correct?
nice lemma I have never seen before: if $g$ is an increasing function on $[0, \infty)$ tending to $\infty$, and $\epsilon > 0$ is fixed, then $g'(x) \leq g^{1+\epsilon}(x)$ for all but a set of finite measure
Proof or reference?
Alessandro is not a trusting fellow, that's for sure
:P
No, just an interested fellow! I like that
proof: Let $E$ be the set where this inequality is in the other direction. Then $$\int_E dx \leq \int_E \frac{g'(x)}{g^{1+\epsilon}(x)} dx.$$ Applying the substitution $x = g(u)$ (this substitution makes sense because $g$ covers the whole of $[0, \infty)$ and is monotonic), we get that this integral is $\int_{g^{-1}(E)} \frac{du}{u^{1+\epsilon}}.$ This integral over the whole real line is finite.
Oh that's slick
18:02
I learned it here
@Secret ?
18:17
some conference
Can't go though its too far
I was subscribed to AMS's facebook
@LeakyNun imgur.com/a/hGRiNy9 here is the picture, kindly tell me :)
蒙哄
What is it in english?
Okay any other particular word?
18:26
but I don't really know that word
If $x \in \overline{A}$, how do I show that $A$ contains a net converging to $x$? I know I have to consider the directed set $J = \{\alpha \subseteq X \mid \alpha \mbox{is a nbhd of } x\}$, but I can't seem to get the proof to work. If $\alpha$ is a nhbd of $x$, then there exists $x_{\alpha} \in A \cap \alpha$, so $(x_{\alpha})_{\alpha \in J}$ is obviously the net we need.
But I don't know how to prove convergence.
how do i pronounce that in english, it may be a name of my friend
the given reference is 70 years old
@AnimeshAshish its pronunciation is marked méng hǒng
I can make a recording if you want
No, its okay, thanks tho :)
Given an open nbhd $U$ of $x$, I need to find $\alpha \in J$ such that $\alpha \subseteq \beta$ implies $x_\beta \in U$. My thought was to take $\alpha = U$, but I still couldn't figure out convergence from that...
Because if $U \subseteq \beta$, certainly $x_\beta \in A \cap \beta$, but I don't see how to argue that $x_\beta \in U$.
18:32
what is J, an index set?
6 mins ago, by user193319
If $x \in \overline{A}$, how do I show that $A$ contains a net converging to $x$? I know I have to consider the directed set $J = \{\alpha \subseteq X \mid \alpha \mbox{is a nbhd of } x\}$, but I can't seem to get the proof to work. If $\alpha$ is a nhbd of $x$, then there exists $x_{\alpha} \in A \cap \alpha$, so $(x_{\alpha})_{\alpha \in J}$ is obviously the net we need.
So my guess of Geordie Williamson as a Fields medalist turned out to be wrong. But given that he is a plenary speaker and the only such apart from Peter Scholze below the age of 40, I assume he must have at least been a consideration.
@Secret It is a directed set.
@user193319 isn't the condition $\beta \subseteq \alpha$ instead?
18:34
@LeakyNun That seems how it should be, but my book says otherwise.
I am guessing $\beta$ is "later" than $\alpha$ in the preordering, thus it has to be eventually converge to $x$ since $J$ forms a filter for $x$ or something?
@user193319 maybe your book says $\le$ and you interpreted $\subseteq$
but actually I think $\le$ means $\supseteq$
and it's directed because intersection of two open sets is open
Ah...dang it...I missed the part of the problem statement that said consider reverse inclusion...whoops.
19:02
@MikeMiller That's neat, much better than I was expecting!
19:30
$$1.08366$$
Sou
Sou
19:42
Hi all. I'm new here. I'm trying to be more active in chat.
It's not good for your time management
run dude
Sou
Sou
Why is that ?
 
2 hours later…
22:23
@MikeMiller I resemble that remark!
 
1 hour later…
23:33
Hey. I may have a conversation about chaos in the chaos room if this new user engages in any way... if anyone is interested in talking about chaos. I could use the back up. Haven't formally interacting with this stuff in... 6 years...
Actually... Can I ask that someone give this user's question an upvote so they can have a conversation in chat?
23:49
@EricSilva. Can you be convinced? Any interest?
Never mind. Handled.
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