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00:00 - 20:0020:00 - 00:00

00:08
Okay I will go back to work cya everyone
see you! @Adeek
00:53
See you Adeek!
01:03
Hi @Daminark
 
1 hour later…
02:06
Hello everyone, I have a simple question that I've worked through in a GRE book, and I think the book is wrong with regards to their correct answer. mind if I share it and my reasoning?
actually, maybe i'll just post it and if anyone wants to take a look otherwise you can just ignore it
the question says:

x, y, and z are the lengths of the sides of a triangle.

then you compare two things and decide if one is greater than the other, if they are equal or if the answer cannot be determined
the comparisions are:

A: x + y+ z

B: 2z
the triangle inequality tells us:

x +y <= z
sorry greater than or equal to z
so that means that A can be one of two things, greater than 2z or exactly equal
so the correct answer should be that the answer cannot be determined
yet the book says that A: x + y + z is correct
am I wrong?
02:58
@atomsmasher In the abstract, you are right, but the question makes a tacit assumption that the triangle is nondegenerate. In this case, x+y > z strictly.
03:18
@Fargle I see, so because at z = x + y you a line, and the question says it's definitely a triangle, x + y must be larger than z
you have a line*
Yep!
thanks a lot!
No problem
 
2 hours later…
05:52
Is there a name for a state in a Markov chain that has no states leading to it (with nonzero probability)? I've heard such a thing being called a "Garden of Eden" in the context of cellular automata.
Something like "predecessorless"?
Nevermind, I guess it's called "inaccessible state".
 
4 hours later…
10:18
Hi all!
I am having difficulties to understand the difference between $(\{1\},\cdot)$ and $(\{0\},\cdot)$.
In particular why the latter is no group (but just a semigroup).
Uh, what
Unless I'm really misinterpreting something here, those two are literally the same thing but with a symbol swap
context needed, otherwise these two structures should be isomorphic
@Rudi_Birnbaum both are groups
Not according to my textbook.
there is only one binary operation on a singleton
your textbook is wrong.
10:29
I qoute it: "Die Injektion der Unterhalbgruppe $\{0\}$ in $({\Bbb N}, \cdot)$ ist ein Homomorphismus von Monoiden, aber kein Monoidhomomorphismus."
Oh no this is a different thing
I almost gueesed it.
But I can't see how
@Rudi_Birnbaum it's supposed to say "ein Homorphismus von Halbgruppen, aber kein Monoidhomomorphismus"
probably the text uses "Homomorphismus" for semigroup homomorphism
the point is semigroup homomorphisms are only required to preserve the operation, but monoid homomorphism also have to preserve the neutral element
the neutral element in $\{0\}$ is $0$, but the neutral element in $(\Bbb N,\cdot)$ is $1$
@MatheinBoulomenos: Yes I see that, and I think thats how the textbook uses the term.
the inclusion $\{0\} \hookrightarrow \Bbb N$ doesn't send $0$ to $1$, so it's not a monoid homomorphism
but it is a semigroup homomorphism
10:33
It's a similar thing to how in (unital) rings, you require the map to send 1 to 1, so in particular, the map $n\to 2n$ wouldn't fly
and both $\{0\}$ and $(\Bbb N, \cdot)$ are monoids
Yeah now I see it! Thanks both of you!! (How stupid can one be ...??)
10:46
Is the gist that "Injektion" kind of means "canonical injection"?
10:59
yeah it means inclusion here
11:23
@TedShifrin, In your Kepler's Laws lecture, you prove that "In the presence of a central force field, the orbit of an object lies in a plane." You are using in that proof, Newton's second law‌​: in that lecture's notation: $\vec F(\vec g(t))=m\vec g''(t)$. I wondered why this holds 'mathematically'.
So, I googled it. And I got to know that Newton's laws can't be proved. So, while proving that theorem, do we assume $\vec F(\vec g(t))=m\vec g''(t)$, too? Or, does $\vec F(\vec g(t))=m\vec g''(t)$ hold in any central vector field?@TedShifrin
@Silent eh, you can't derive physics purely from math
Like, at some point in order to be doing physics you have to be making statements about behavior of objects. That's an empirical fact, and would need to be known via experimentation, not pure thought
@Daminark so, in that lecture video, particularly, at in this theorem, I should think that newton's second law is given as a hypothesis, right? its not a fact about any central force field?
@Silent what is the notation $\vec F(\vec g(t))$
@LeakyNun $\vec g(t)$ is the position of particle at time $t$, and $\vec F(\vec g(t))$ is force at that position.
then it's just the definition of the physical quantity "force".
11:31
ok
Hi @LeakyNun
@LeakyNun $$P(x)- P'(x)= x^2 + 2x+1$$. How do I extract polynomial function P(x) from this info?
I have tried using $P(x)= ax^2 +bx+c$, and then equating coeefficients
But that is not useful
$ax^2 + bx + c - 2ax - b = x^2 + 2x + 1$
a = 1
b-2a = 2 -> b = 4
c-b = 1 -> c = 5
i.e. $P(x) = x^2 + 4x + 5$
@LeakyNun I did: $$\dfrac{a}{1}= \dfrac{b-2a}{2}= \dfrac{c-b}{1}$$
What is wrong with this^
11:38
why would you do that
@LeakyNun Ratio of coefficents should be same right?
that's a weaker result
than the ratios all being 1
@LeakyNun ?? Why??
because (a=1 and b-2a=2 and c-b=1) implies (a/1 = (b-2a)/2 = (c-b)/1)
but you can't go the other way round
@LeakyNun Oh okay, thanks. '
11:54
Can one define a $R^n$ valued polynomials?
I mean you could take a function to $R^n$ where each coordinate is a polynomial, that wouldn't quite be a polynomial in itself
Can I still approximate a $\Bbb R^n$ valued function by such polynomials in $R^n$?
I mean, I can approximate it coordinate wise by stone weierstrass theorem, would it work?
Should work
Ok thanks, great help @Daminark
No problem!
12:12
hmm... I wonder if stone weierstrass theorem will also work for matrix functions $f(X)$
won't the matrix multiplication (which is a linear map of stuff on the left hand side taking each column vector on the right hand side as arguments) of say e.g. $X^2$ in some matrix polynomial $P(X)$ makes it harder to converge to some matrix functions?
might need to investigate later...
@quallenjäger by abstract nonsense, a function to $R^n$ is nothing more than $n$ functions to $R$
While at first glance $M_n(\Bbb{R})$ has the same dimension as $\Bbb{R}^{n^2}$, the former has a multiplicaton structure that is absent in the latter, potentially restricting the range of $P(X)$ for all matrix polynomials $P$
If we say that 2 is first prime, 3 is second prime etc. is there a known method for calculating nth prime, without first calculating primes up to n?
@LeakyNun I see, thanks
@Secret you mean $f(X)$ is a matrix?
yup
12:27
I read some paper recently that stone weierstrass works for normed linear space under some additional assumptions.
I see
 
1 hour later…
14:05
@LeakyNun leaky: why do you need category theory to show that?
Does mathjax supposed to work in here
it doesn't work for me
14:24
works for me
@Rudi_Birnbaum you don't
Install this @yasar
@user2236 Thanks. It works nicely.
14:30
I have to teach some graph theory next week (directed acyclic graph lib...), any good sources? I'm trying to iron out the terminology too...
"node": (data)point on graph (also vertex or junction); "edge": line between two nodes; "source": ...?; "sink": ...? - say we have a simple digraph with two nodes and one directional edge (e.g. a -> b), what are the nouns that refer to the elements of the relationship?
gotta run out, but I'll be back later...
15:05
@AaronHall - maybe you can get some inspiration from the book, Algorithhms 4th Edition by Robert Sedgewick, Kevin Wayne.pdf
@Shaun take time-off.
seriously, without your health you have nothing.
 
1 hour later…
16:31
@AaronHall edges are also called arcs, typically an undirected graph is defined as an ordered pair G = (V,E), where V is the set of nodes and E is a set of unordered pairs in V. For a directed graph, E is a set of ordered pairs instead. The in-degree of a node is the number of edges pointing to it, and similarly out-degree, then you can define a source node as a node with in-degree 0.
 
2 hours later…
18:03
@Silent: Newton's three laws are taken as axioms (physical axioms, not mathematical ones). The equation $F(g(t)) = mg''(t)$ is just a rewriting of Newton's second law. A central force is one in which $F(x)$ is a scalar multiple of $x$ (where that scalar can be a function of $x$).
@TedShifrin Thanks. So, what i get from this is a central force need not satisfy $F(g(t)) = mg''(t)$, but we are assuming it here, right?
That's Newton's second law. We're not talking about the force itself. We're talking about how the particle accelerates in the presence of the force. That equation is just $F=ma$.
ok.
thanks
o..o
18:17
heya demonic @Alessandro. How you be?
Pretty well, I'm finally reading about differential forms!
Oh wow. I might have a heart attack.
In order to learn about the de Rahm cohomology
well, try to see some concrete applications, too (e.g., a few of my lectures or the section on moving frames in my geometry notes).
deRham, by the way
Did you see this question from one of your compatriots? Sigh.
@TedShifrin I looked it up earlier because I wasn't sure and wiki (not the best source I know) spells the name as de Rahm
18:21
Hey all!
Totally wrong, @Alessandro.
hi geocalc
@TedShifrin Interesting, I'll keep that in mind
@Danu: This question. He has it slightly mis-stated, but, nevertheless ... In the compact case, it's just finite-dimensionality and injectivity both ways. But how did we get it for the non-compact case?
I was just reading the book Linked, by Albert Barabasi. Great read if you're interested in a broad treatment of networks and how they interplay in different fields
Not sure too many of us think about such things around here, @geocalc. I know I don't.
18:25
that's okay
oh
I forgot
what do you think about in terms of mathematics @ted
Mostly differential geometry related stuff, geocalc. Not that I think much any more ...
@TedShifrin No I didn't, I guess there are people at his uni he should ask instead? Ironically they also have a great number theorist, Fabrizio Andreatta, in Milan
nice!
@TedShifrin what is one of the most important things to take away from differential geometry?
Gauss-Bonnet theorem is the starting place.
@Alessandro: It's sad how many undergraduates don't think about these things until it's too late. Maybe you should put a comment there for him, though?
does someone know their derivatives? :)
18:37
hopefully someone does
I'll think about it, but it's a bit late to think about it and I don't think I really have much to say
derivatives are okey, but have some issues, to do programm the derivatives of a whole algoritm
:D
:'(
I'm slightly disappointed that a chain complex with reversed arrows is a cochain complex rather than a chain cocomplex
can you embed a one dimensional object into a two dimensional object?
18:41
the dual things are co-chains, so that's why, @Alessandro
Makes sense
@geocalc33 Sometimes? Depends on how you define dimensions and what kind of embedding you're looking for I guess
@AlessandroCodenotti okay, say i want to embed a shape like a circle into 3D. Would one way to do that be to rotate a geodesic of a circle about the center point of the circle?
or does that just create a surface
If your circle lives in $\Bbb R^2$ you can just embed $\Bbb R^2$ in $\Bbb R^3$, it's really unclear what exactly you're trying to do
sorry let me think for a second
I want to embed a square, with some additional interior topological structure into $ R^3 $ and gain some intuition for how the interior topological structure inside the square should be embedded in $ R^3 $ , and how it changes with a continuous homeomorphism from cube to sphere to astroid etc. so first i would extend the square into a cube, which is homeomorphic to a sphere in $ R^3 $ right?
18:56
Right, be careful though that very often spaces have many nonequivalent embeddings into $\Bbb R^3$ for some definition of equivalent
okay, so i have to sift through these many nonequivalent embeddings and see what works and what doesn't within $ R^3$?
or see if it can actually be done uniquely?
i guess the first step is figuring out whether the interior topo structure can indeed be embedded into $R^3$ uniquely
and maybe if it can, then see if there exists a continous mapping from cube to sphere to astroid while preserving the structure inside idk
Why do you want to do all of that though?
I'm just exploring a very specific structure and want to understand it in terms of it's topological structure in $ R^3 $
because at the moment i only really know what the model looks like in dimension two
19:12
Hi @Alessandro @Ted @geocalc etc.
@TedShifrin My notes say that we use the fact that the Lefschetz operators furnish an sl(2) rep
which implies that both $L$ and $\Lambda$ are bijections
hi @ÍgjøgnumMeg
(I'm not sure I understand the argument; wanna explain it to me again? @TedShifrin)
Hi @ÍgjøgnumMeg
19:24
@Alessandro hey man, how you doing?
Pretty well, thanks, what about you?
Hi @ÍgjøgnumMeg
and @Alessandro
Guten Abend @Mathei
the correct terminology should be chain mplex
Do category theorists wonder why Pixar's Coco is a movie with an empty title?
19:32
hmm
well, having the empty string be a valid string is what makes words on an alphabet a monoid
I need help with latex on MSE
@Alessandro pretty goooood, I'm just deciding what to spend my remaining 2 months of free time on before starting my masters
how do I do long division?
Also hey @Mathein
@ÍgjøgnumMeg My unbiased vote goes to set theory
Hi @Mike did you manage to return home?
19:39
@Alessandro lol, I know for sure that I should be learning basic topology but I really cannot be bothered
But topology is so cool :/
yeah it probably is, I just hate starting things
lol
lol the question stayed open for about 5 minutes
What do you mean with "basic topology" by the way?
19:43
Poor bloke
I mean point set topology
the formatting is great
the kind of stuff you'd do in like a first year course or smth
I just haven't ever done any
@ÍgjøgnumMeg You mean the best topology
hahaha
I mean
I know what a topology is
but that's about it
topology becomes a lot easier when you realize that a topological space is just a lax algebra of the monad β of ultrafilters on the (1,2)-category Rel of sets and binary relations.
19:45
and obviously I see a lot about algebraic structures with some topology stuffed on top of it
@Mathein shit yeah
Jokes apart as long as you know the definition of a topology, some separation axioms, what do first and second countable mean and what connected, compact and dense set mean you're going to be fine
A set is dense in a topological space if its closure is the whole space right?
even when you have topologies on stuff in ANT you don't really need to know a lot of topology
the stuff that Alessandro mentions is sufficient
Fair, I'll try and cram that into the next 2 months
@MatheinBoulomenos Balarka just managed to convince me that topological spaces (up to weak homotopy equivalence) are really $\infty$-groupoids and now you algebraists come up with this new devilry?
19:46
Compact = Closed and bounded?
@ÍgjøgnumMeg Yep
Separation axioms are all of the
Hausdorff
@ÍgjøgnumMeg Nope, that's equivalent to compact in $\Bbb R^n$ though
or
whatever
right?
lol
19:47
@Alessandro I see, what is compactness then?
@ÍgjøgnumMeg we covered the necessary point-set topology in our alg top course in two weeks (our school doesn't regularly offer point-set topology)
A topological space is compact if all open covers of the space admit a finite subcover
@Mathein fair, I don't expect it'll be much of an issue anyway but it's nice to be on top of stuff
An open cover is a family of open sets whose union is the whole space
yeah cool, I knew what an open cover was
19:49
And of course a subspace is compact if it is a compact space with the subspace topology
Right
and then
local compactness?
if every point of the space has a neighbourhood that is compact
according to wikipedia
Nice, I guess I should just do a lot of exercises over the summer then
(There are plenty of weakenings of compactness, most of which are not particularly useful)
local compactness is very useful though
19:51
oh, a function $f : X \to Y$ is continuous if $f^{-1}(U)$ is open in $X$ for every open set $U \subseteq Y$ right?
local fields can be characterized by their topology
@Mathein yeah I happen to have seen local compactness in that context a lot
lol
a field is a local field if it has a locally compact Hausdorff topology such that addition multiplication and inversion are continuous
@MatheinBoulomenos Indeed, unlike paracompactness, metacompactness and all this weird stuff
I mean they're probably useful sometimes, just far less often than other nice topological properties
I don't know about metacompactness, but paracompactness can matter (partitions of unity are really useful)
$\sigma$-compactness matters for measure theory stuff
19:52
@ÍgjøgnumMeg Yep
Alright, I guess I just have trouble applying these definitions because it's a new scenario for me lol
for example, paracompact Hausdorff is sufficient for Cech cohomology to be isomorphic to sheaf cohomology
"Counterexamples in topology" has some pages dedicated to big diagrams of implications between plenty of different kinds of compactness
Another couple of important things to learn in point-set is how quotient topologies work and the tychonoff's theorem
Maybe even the Baire category theorem
I've found variations of compactness to be more useful than the thousands of different separation axioms. From my experience, you either have Hausdorff or you don't really care (as in AlgGeo)
tychonoff's theorem is important I agree
tychonoff's theorem implies that profinite groups are compact
@Alessandro Quotient topology is the finest/coarsest (don't remember) topology for which the natural projection is continous yeeee?
19:57
Sometimes you need a bit more than just Hausdorff though, Tietze extension theorem or Urysohn's metrization theorem for example
@AlessandroCodenotti Yeah I made it home at 10pm CA time, so it was a total of a 27-hour trip
@ÍgjøgnumMeg Think about whether it should be finest or coarsest
@AlessandroCodenotti never used those theorems :P
Sounds awful but better late than never I guess...
but I also haven't really down point-set topology seriously
19:59
@MikeMiller Good to hear you made it!
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