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12:03
@LeakyNun it is irreducible polynomial, hence forms prime ideal. Thank you! But we can't derive that $\Bbb Z[x]/(x^2-3)$ is a field right?
@Silent well it isn't
$|z-1|=(z-1)$
How do I find the values of this in terms of x and y?
I got $x-iy=2$ but i dont know if that is sufficient
Nevermind I think thats fine
@leaky
@LeakyNun
Any ideas with this one?
12:21
is it possible there's a proof out there that we haven't figured out yet that doesnt use choice, that the countable union of countable sets is countable?
I didn't find proofs that the latter implies choice, only that choice implies the latter
16
Q: Countable Unions And The Axiom Of Countable Choice

Asaf KaragilaLet us denote by ACC the axiom of countable choice, namely the assertion that the product of countably many non-empty sets is non-empty, and denote by UCC the assertion that a countable union of countable sets is countable. UCC is a simple theorem of ZF+ACC. Proof Suppose for every $i\in\omega$...

It's not possible to prove countable union is countable without the axiom of choice
15
Q: Why is Axiom of Choice required for the proof of countable union of countable sets is countable?

TommjjerryI know that this question has been asked a lot here, some of them are duplicate of each other. I’ve read every single of them, but my problem has not been resolved. I can just memorize that Axiom of Choice (AC) is needed, but I want to be clear of this, logically. Note : “Countable” here means i...

ah thanks
Munkres brings a proof that it's possible to construct the first uncountable ordinal without choice. then he says the result is less exciting than it sounds at first glance because you need the theorem about countable unions of countable sets to prove that every countable subset has a supremum, and without that aspect it's not a useful set
2
Q: When an infinite union of countable sets is uncountable?

MphLeeIf I have $\kappa$ countable sets, when their union is not countable? only if $\kappa$ is uncountable? Using AC make differences?

yeah, without the axiom of choice, the sets you end up after the countable union can be unordered in general
12:37
still mildly interesting that the statement "there exist well-ordered uncountable sets" is provable without choice
In mathematics, specifically in axiomatic set theory, a Hartogs number is a particular kind of cardinal number. It was shown by Friedrich Hartogs in 1915, from ZF alone (that is, without using the axiom of choice), that there is a least well-ordered cardinal greater than a given well-ordered cardinal. To define the Hartogs number of a set it is not necessary that the set be well-orderable: If X is any set, then the Hartogs number of X is the least ordinal α such that there is no injection from α into X. If X cannot be well-ordered, then we can no longer say that this α is the least well-ordered...
Yup, you find the first ordinal that does not inject into some given set
@GFauxPas $\omega_1$ always exists without choice
i.e. the first uncountable ordinal
i.e. the union of the countable ordinals
$\omega_1$ is constructed by taking any set $X$, consider the class of all ordinals that can be injected into $X$, use the axiom schema of replacement to map these ordinals into the order type of $X$ (this is the impredicative step, because it requires a definable class function which is not present beforehand) and the resulting set of maps is itself an ordinal, $\omega_1$
ah here's the reason, because there's a model where "dedekind finite iff finite" and "countable union of countable sets" holds but acc doesn't hold
0
A: No uncountable ordinals without the axiom of choice?

TimothyIt might seems like we can't prove the existence of an uncountable ordinal without the axiom of choice. For example, here's the following incorrect argument: "Let s be the order type of the set of all countable ordinal numbers, then s must exceed all countable ordinal numbers so it's uncountable...

ok my argument needs some modification
12:49
Hi
not gonna try to understand the result too deeply because I have a hard time with proofs by forcing
too meta for my head to wrap around
correction: the order type of of subsets of $X$
We know that min(x)+min(y)!=min(x+y) then how can we find min(x+y) if we only know the values min(x) and min(y), i.e arrays x y are not available. If not possible then what is the closest approximate of min(x+y)
@MatheinBoulomenos is there a minimal infinite extension?
Hola
We know that min(x)+min(y)!=min(x+y) then how can we find min(x+y) if we only know the values min(x) and min(y), i.e arrays x y are not available. If not possible then what is the closest approximate of min(x+y)? can min(x+y) be approximated in any way?
12:58
How do I know if i can diaganolise this matrix?
any matrix or you have a matrix in mind?
$$
\begin{matrix}
4 & 4 \\
4 & 3
\end{matrix}$$
Sorry was just typing it out
@GFauxPas lol
I wouldn't diagonalize that matrix
Determine which of the following matrices can be written in real diagonal form by
a suitable choice of basis. In each case justify your answer
That was the question
How do you know if you can diagnolise a matrix?
13:01
well there's a sufficient condition regarding symmetric real matrices
do you know it
Any real symmetric matrix has real eigenvalues?
distinct
an $n \times n$ symmetric real matrix has $n$ distinct real eigenvalues
Does anyone have opinion on my problem I posted above?
use that statement to argue that that implies its diagonalizable
;)
@GFauxPas that's wrong
13:03
Regarding min of arrays
uh oh, it is?
the correct statements are
1. any (real) matrix with $n$ distinct eigenvalues are diagonalizable
2. any (real) symmetrix matrix are orthogonally diagonalizable
@Islam If the array x and y does not have some notion of continuity (e.g. can be fit into some nice functions such as exp, sine, polynomials etc.) it is in general impossible to get min(x+y) if you don't know the full details of x,y
@GFauxPas just consider the identity matrix :)
welp i feel silly
13:05
@Secret can't it be approximated if we have partial data on x y
e.g. take x = 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 9 4 1 1 1 - 1 and y = -9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 -9 0 0 0 2 4. Then min(x) = 1 and min(y) = -9, but min (x+y) = -5
@Islam if your partial data miss out the region that actually contribute to the min(x+y), your approximation will be way off
So if my matrix doesnt satisfy those conditions I cant diagonalise it?
i mean for a 2x2 you can just look at the characteristic polynomial
@JakeRose nope. those aren't necessary conditions.
and see if it has 2 distinct eigenvalues
13:08
those are sufficient conditions, i.e. criteria for diagonalizability
not that much work for a 2x2
those do not exhaust everything
$$
\begin{matrix}
cos & -sin \\
cos & sin
\end{matrix}$$
I left out the theta I hope nobody minds
use \cos, \sin
I mind, gtfo
j/k
How do I know if this is diagnoizable?
13:10
4 mins ago, by Secret
e.g. take x = 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 9 4 1 1 1 - 1 and y = -9 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 -9 0 0 0 2 4. Then min(x) = 1 and min(y) = -9, but min (x+y) = -5
check the discriminant of the characteristic polynomial
Leaky: I wish we will soon have countable computers that can actually do a countably infinite number of parallel computations at the same time
@LeakyNun explain?
@Secret OK thanks so if we know it's a continuous linear monotonous function then?
also, better to use \pmatrix or \bmatrix , matrices without borders sometimes have different connotations
13:11
I leave it to @GFauxPas :P I'm a busy man
@GFauxPas thanks will do
well i say wrong things so
@Islam If x and y are linear and monotonous, then in principle the partial data will allow you to extrapolate to the unknown region to get the best linear regression of x,y and thus allow min(x+y) to be computed closely
@GFauxPas i'll correct you
so yeah, continuity actually makes a lot of difference on how much f(x+y) is constrained for some given function f (such as max, min, average etc.)
13:13
the brute force way to tell if it's diagonalizable is to check if the characteristic polynomial splits into $k$ linear factors over the underlying field
when the matrix is $k \times k$
there are sufficient conditions that don't involve actually looking at the characteristic polynomial
but with a 2x2, brute force isn't that hard
it has $k$ linear factors if it has $k$ distinct eigenvalues over the field you're considering
@LeakyNun yes
meaning it's characteristic polynomial will be $\pm 1(x-r_1)(x-r_2)\cdots(x-r_n)$
@MatheinBoulomenos how?
iff $r_1 \ne r_2 \ne \cdots \ne r_n$ it's diagonalizable
$1 \ne 2 \ne 1$... :P
13:18
$\Large{=}_{k=1}^n r_k$ then
why didn't that wor
k
The first isomorphism theorem for sets is the statement that if $f:X \to Y$ is a map, then the induced map $X/\sim \to \operatorname{Im}(f)$, where $a \cong b \Leftrightarrow f(a)=f(b)$, given by $[a] \mapsto f(a)$ is a bijection
Ah i see
there we go
If you apply that to the map $G \to X$ where $g \mapsto gx$ when you have an action of $G$ on $X$, then you get orbit-stabilizer
13:20
$\displaystyle \large{=}_{k = 1}^n r_k$
oh, the first isomorphism in the wrong category lol
there are theorems which generalize both the first isomorphism theorem for groups/rings/modules etc. and this
X/\sim $X/\sim$
ah yeah
@LeakyNun you can define a general algebraic structure (it turns out that fields aren't one, lol) and prove the isomorphism theorems in that context
sets are the algebraic structure where you just have no operations
hmm
I suppose you want a pointed category
13:22
@JakeRose know how to find the characteristic polynomial?
This is in Martin Brandenburg (you may know him from MSE) - "Einführung in die Kategorientheorie"
he has a chapter on that
28 mins ago, by Leaky Nun
@MatheinBoulomenos is there a minimal infinite extension?
no
if $L/K$ is transcendental, then this is clear. If we suppose that $L/K$ is minimal, then for any transcendental element $x \in L$ by minimality we get $L=K(x)$, but becaue $L$ is transcental, $K(x^2)$ is a proper subextensioin
o..o
I actually use $\substack{n \\ \\ \Huge{=} \\ {k=1}} r_k$ in my own personal notes, i've never seen it in a book
so by extension $\substack{n \\ \\ \Huge{\ne} \\ {k=1}} r_k$ would mean none would be equal to any other
13:28
[Random]
@MatheinBoulomenos what if L has no transcendental element
Define huge operators $\substack{n \\ \\ \Huge{\text{Op}} \\ {k=1}}$ as follows:
why is Jake Rose's question starred lol
lol
hey why not
$\substack{n \\ \\ \Huge{\text{Op}} \\ {k=1}} a_k\equiv a_1 \text{ Op } a_2 \land a_1 \text{ Op } a_3 \land ... \land a_n \text{ Op } a_n$
13:30
$\substack{n \\ \\ \Huge{\neg} \\ {k=1}}p_k$ could mean $\neg p_1 \land \neg p_2 \land \cdots \land \neg p_n$ :P
uh oh, according to that, Secret, $\substack{n \\ \\ \Huge{\ne} \\ {k=1}} r_k$ would imply $r_i \ne r_i$
But how can we reconcile with $\sum$ and $\prod$, cause these are implying binary, but not unary relations?
that is:
$\sum_{k=1}^n a_k =a_1 +a_2 +a_3 + \cdots + a_n$
$\prod_{k=1}^n a_k =a_1a_2a_3 \cdots a_n$
I guess you can say, if you're obsessed for some reason with not using english words,
$\#\left\{ {r_1,r_2,\cdots,r_k} \right\} = k$
0
Q: Any non-trivial $T-$invariant subspace of $V$ contains an eigenvector of $T.$

Maneesh Narayanan Let $T$ be a linear operator on a finite-dimensional vector space $V$. Deduce that if the characteristic polynomial of $T$ splits, then any non-trivial $T-$invariant subspace of $V$ contains an eigenvector of $T.$ Let $W$ be a $T-$Invariant subspace. $W\neq\{0\}$($\because$ Given that ...

Secret, just context? ¯_(ツ)_/¯
probably, any author will probably describe unconventional notations to their readers anyway
Btw, I also made this many years ago:
13:34
or they can just say $\text{ all distinct }$
like a coward
do anyone have any idea regarding this problem?
$\substack{n \\ \\ \Huge{\text{E}} \\ {k=1}} a_k =a_1^{a_2^{a_3^{\ddots^{a_n}}}}$
one of my professors once told me that, as an immature mathematician, he believed that statements were more mathematically correct if they used more symbols and fewer words
and that I should learn from his folly
Is there an upper bound to the mathematical correctness of a statement?
13:38
how do you comment on mediawiki with latex, <--! comment -->, right?
or is it <!-- text -->
the latter
[Explosive random]
Consider the following:
$\{1,2,3,4,5\}$
Secret the upper bound of correctness for mathematical statements assumes that the levels of correctness are well orderable which requires choice. assuming choice, the upper bound is $\text{true}$
and the lower bound is $\text{false}$
That makes sense, since True and False form a lattice and they are the maximal and minimal element respectively
[\terminate explosive random] Error: Unforeseen regularity. Proceed with normal mode
13:48
@GFauxPas Det(A-lambdaI)=0?
Can somebody explain where Im being stupid
Integral of sinx =-cos x
With the limits of 0 to pi
I keep getting 0 which is obviously wrong
$-cos(\pi)-cos(0)$
yes Jakerose. Though I prefer $\det(\lambda I - A)$ because that is always monic and your version can have a $-$ in front
is equal to $-(-1)-1=0$
$+\cos 0$ Jake
$-- = +$
or, using the above notation
Gosh Im stupid
actually, im not gonna bother
sign errors dont make you stupid
they are a fact of life
my professor told me about a professor of his that used $\mathbb Z_2$ as the ring to compute homology groups because then you don't have to worry about sign errors, as $-1 = 1$
or more precisely
he always made sign errors and his students encouraged him to use $\mathbb Z_2$
reminds me of the joke about how a mathematician wakes up to find himself in a burning room of his apartment. He looks outside, grabs a piece of paper, and calculates the velocity and trajectory needed to land on the ground with minimal impact upon hitting the ground
unfortunately, because of a sign error, he jumped out and fell up into the sky
13:57
:')
Thats a good one Im gonna have to borrow it
go ahead
@secret
do you have any idea?
@GFauxPas One interesting form of sign error is using the right-hand rule with your left hand. Not that I would ever stoop to such stupidity. :)
Gonna ask a statistics question
Say you have two people playing a game of rolling two dice
To win you have to get 2 sixes in one throw
Is the probability of a loss 35/36 or 25/36?
14:02
@LeakyNun ah nevermind I was wrong. Consider $\bigcup \Bbb{Q}(\sqrt[2^n]{2})/ \Bbb Q$. This doesn't have any nontrivial infinite subextension
35/36
actualyl just worked it out
brb Jake, running a monte carlo simulation millions of times to get the answer
approximate answer
@GFauxPas ah great lemme know in what 10 years?
I was joking but a decent modern computer can do a millions of monte carlo simulations like that in less than an hour
depending on the distribution, could be just a few minutes
14:11
@ManeeshNarayanan I am not good at charateristic polynomials, thus I cannot help on that one
@MatheinBoulomenos interesting
@LeakyNun Can you please help me?
in The h Bar, 32 mins ago, by Slereah
which are a special people
Calm spacetime: The metric has no time dependence, and is reasonably smooth
okay. sorry
14:21
Fluxional spacetime: The metric and its derivative has significant time dependence, suggesting raging gravitational fields in the vicinity
Unstable spacetime: Requires a local metric in the spacetime manifold to describe, as the topology of spacetime started to vary erratically in both spatial and temporal directions, which means neighbouring patches may have completely different metrices
Highly unstable spacetime: The patches become infinitesimally small, as the topological variations from one point to the next become arbitrarily large. Spacetime is on the brink of becoming chaotic
The Bulk: Spacetime becomes chaotic and random. Pockets of stable spacetimes can pop in and out of existence
Approaching timelessness: Causal ordering started to become ambiguous and then lost. Only pure spatial structures remain
Approaching spacelessness: Topology started to relax into pretopology, become increasingly chaotic, random, indeterministic, indeterminable, blurred, and finally lost completely. No human being nor any physical matter can survive in this realm
Approaching ambigurity: Metaphysical entities started to blend and blur with each other, as the law of identity become increasingly fragmented and ultimately fail
The Ambigurity: Everything is completely homogenised, no matter it is laws, identity, god, space, time, metaphysics, magic, spiritual, ineffables, nothing etc., and become one with this amorphous homogeneous "dead"
@LeakyNun hello, please what is the relation between compact and a Cauchy sequence
$$\Huge{\text{Dies Not Exist}}$$
Let $R$ be a ring and $G$ a group. How can I explicitly describe the adjunction between $RG$-modules and $G$-sets using the structure arrows? Given a group arrow $\rho :G\to \mathsf{Set}(X,X)$ for instance I don't see how to formally get a ring arrow $RG\to R$-$\mathsf{Mod}(RX,RX)$ and vice versa.
The group algebra $\dashv $ group of units seems to move between algebra arrows $\mathsf{Mod}(RX,RX)$ and group arrows $G\to R$-$\mathsf{Mod}(RX,RX)^\times $, but I don't recognize the latter as the group of bijections of some set.
14:39
@PolineSandra what's the definition of compact?
Any sequence has a convergent subsequence
that's closure
oh
wait
is that equivalent to compactness? let me see
yes it is equivalent
sorry, I was thinking of a different definition, but it's equivalent
anyway, $E$ is complete and totally bounded iff compact
and complete means every cauchy sequence in $E$ converges in $E$
Is a Cauchy which have a convergent subsequence, converge?
not necessarily
14:43
oh I misread it
yes
im on a roll today
@PolineSandra didn't we already go through it
17 hours ago, by Leaky Nun
but any cauchy sequence has a convergent subsequence
17 hours ago, by Leaky Nun
and you can prove that the limit is the limit of the whole sequence using Cauchy
how'd you find what you wrote 17 hours ago
search
i don't understand yesterday that's why i ask you now
I gave you hints
you need to prove it yourself
14:46
i understand now
i consider $x_{n+1}=f(x_n)=f^{n}(x_0), x_0\in E$
i prove that it is a cauchy sequence in the Compact space so it has a convergent subsequence
@Abr001am how is it going?
then it converge in $E$, and it's limit is the fixed point of $f$, @LeakyNun
hello waiting, i'm stalking robjohn's awsome archive of telescoping series
14:48
One question: is my answer below hard to understand in a second? I guess it is not upvoted because the users don't understand it
0
A: On the series $\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \frac{\left \lfloor \log_2 n \right \rfloor}{2n(2n+1)(2n+2)}$

WaitingSimple creative telescoping sums reveal $$\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \frac{\left \lfloor \log_2 n \right \rfloor}{2n(2n+1)(2n+2)}=\sum_{k=0}^{\infty} \sum_{n=2^k}^{2^{k+1}-1} \frac{\left \lfloor \log_2 n \right \rfloor}{2n(2n+1)(2n+2)}$$ $$=\sum_{k=0}^{\infty} k\sum_{n=2^k}^{2^{k+1}-1} \frac{1}{2n(2n+1)...

@GFauxPas I hand it back to you again :P
Well, of course, a bit of experience is needed.
@Abr001am Not sure what you mean.
I was nt reading the chat, what are you making me do now :P
was sarcastically meaning 'keeping track of his answers'
@GFauxPas ^^^
@Abr001am OK
OK, I got it. Everybody in a mist.
Time to go.
@Abr001am Still working on mathematics these days?
14:53
yes, i'm now calculating some sums
@Abr001am Planning to become soon a star of calculations? :D
the way robjohn used telescoping series in each sum even where it's not intended to be used is really marvellous.
hi. suppose $B \subset A \times A $ is countably infinite, i need to show that $A$ has a countably infinite subset, i thought taking $\Pi_1(B) \cup \Pi_2(B) $ , but im not sure how to show that this set is countably infinite, someone can help?
@Waiting well, we are all made of stars (this is a serbian proverb iirc).
@Abr001am lots of series can be nicely reduced to telescoping sums. It usually takes some time to develop the ability to see the telescoping sums for harder problems.
Much practice is needed.
(years of practice)
14:59
that's right @LeakyNun?
Yes, i don't have time much time as years, i hope i can grasp on the principle within few months.

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