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18:00
When you apply logic to logic it doesn't hold :D
@DavidK What is wrong with my statement?
@Gigili I realized all my normal vectors are flawed. But I don't know why I need to use them, sicne I want to know the motion through the $x$ axis (since there is no motion in the $y$ axis.
@N3buchadnezzar Yes I wish I wasn't stupid, but I was born this way
@Jordan The logic you applied is wrong.
if a loga^n = x then a^x = n
is that true?
18:01
@Jordan No
@Jordan Well the "rules" that you are trying to apply logic to, are a direct result of a series of logical conclusions culminating in a collection of logical "rules" or relations.
what is intrue about what I said?
$a^x =n$ means $\log_a n = x$
that is what I said
STOP TRYING TO RELATE EVERYTHING IN MATHEMATICS TO REAL NUMBERS
Logarithms are not closely connected to regular operations regarding numbers, they are related to operations related to exponents.
18:05
but isn't log just a shorthand way to represent a^x = n?
@Jordan Yes, but you wrote it wrongly.
@PeterTamaroff $a_1 = a_2$?
@Gigili Yes, that is true. I got $a=1ms^{-2}$. That should tell me how the system will evolve.
I don't see how
@Gigili (In magnitude)
18:07
Hey @JonasTeuwen, I like this question. +1!
$16^x = 16^{log_a y^n}$
logab^x = n same as log a^x + log b^x = n?
@Jordan Use parenthesis.
which is the same as 16^n = x same as 8^ n + 2^n = x
@Jordan NO jordan. You can't just take the logs.
The rule is
$(16)^n = (2 \times 8)^n = 2^n \times 8^n$
It is not PLUS, it is TIMES
18:10
Chill out, Peter. Easy, easy.
@Gigili I'm not screaming. Sorry. I just like to emphasize some words.
Maybe this is better?
Much better, yes.
What a ghost room is Physics.SE
ok that makes sense
logb(x/y) = logbx - logby.
so that means b^n = x/y
@Gigili What do you mean?
@Gigili That there is no one around?
so that also means that b^n = x -y?
18:15
Okay, I think nothing is wrong with your calculations @Peter. But as I said, I hate Physics and I might be wrong
@Gigili Yeah. Thanks anyways!
@PeterTamaroff Yes, you would get over a million answers by now if it was MSE
@Gigili Any interesting math going around?
this is really confusing logb(xn) = n logbx
@PeterTamaroff How do you mean?
I once asked you and got no response, why you withdrew?
18:17
so a^n = x^n = na^x
I wanted to vote for you since I like your answers.
@Gigili ? What did you ask?
@Gigili OH!
I don't know
Maybe I'll have to wait a while.
I really am new in SE.
You could just let it go and see the results. No harms done.
Maybe I can. Is it still open?
I am new, too.
@PeterTamaroff I think so, yes.
18:18
I wrote that wrong $ logb(x^n) = n logbx$
so that means that b^y = x^n
I once registered 11 months ago and left the site as I wasn't motivated enough. I got back here a month ago to ask my questions.
or nb^y = x
I think you have a great chance to win the competition @Peter.
@Gigili OH! Thanks for that! I can0't find the nominees page though.
House time! See you later!
18:20
There's a competition?
How do you find spams @t.b? Do you check active questions instead of newest?
@Gigili Check this out. I shared it with tb and others yesterday
@DylanMoreland Election, I meant.
@Gigili Where's the link to the page of nominees? I can't find it!
18:22
Did you remove your nomination, Peter?
so if I have logb(x^n) = n logbx then$ log4(2^3) = 3 log4^2$
and log8 is what?
10^x = 8?
I did that wrong
so 3 * (4^x) = 2
is that correct?
I will make a post
@Jordan Stop guessing and watch this please :D
I did
Watch it again.
and again
and again
@DylanMoreland Yeah. All the politicism of the questions overwhelmed my. I don't like politics
18:31
You dodged a bullet, then.
@Gigili .Did you visit the link I gave? Let's talk about math!
I am not guessing I am trying to apply logical thinking to the rules
@Jordan The brain is a lot like a muscle in that you have to repeat things over and over to it until you develop the reflexes to be begin to be able to understand something ;D
@PeterTamaroff I am now.
honestly I dont have time for this, I am wasting my time, I have my final this week and there might be one or two questions with ln or log and my understanding of log rules probably won't matter if I just remember the derivative or antiderivative
18:35
I usually tend to study before my exams, instead of staying on the internets
@Gigili Let me know. I'm answering some nomintion questions!
@PeterTamaroff I'll take a look. I admire your facility with series and such.
Just saying, I write out everything I need and stay off for a few days.
@Jordan Then, honestly, move on :D
Do the things you find easy first.
Whenever I want to scare little kids, I just tell them what I am studying.
18:38
whenever I want to embarass myself I tell people what I am studying
@PeterTamaroff Ah, you're the fellow with the T1's and P's. I remember that too :)
@Jordan get that self esteem up, or get some coffee. either works.
I am 27 failing at junior high math :P
@DylanMoreland Ha yeah. As tb said, I'm landauy in my writing. mainly because i like landau's texts.
@Jordan Calculus is not properly taught in junior high. Not in the US anyway.
18:41
well still, 10 years late
Better late than ...
@Jordan There is nothing wrong with that. I'm 28 and still an undergrad
oh, great
my favorite subject: how much Jordan sucks at math
can anyone help me with my math problem? it's tough, so only if you're serious
@JohnSmith, until you describe the problem, no one can know
18:43
@JohnSmith Why not ask it on the main site? More people would see it.
I have, nobody seemed to know
I am trying to find out the number of ways to take a list of numbers and sum those elements to all numbers in a range
efficiently
sounds eulerian
18:44
well, if it is from project euler... the idea of those problems is that you solve them
@David But you probably pass your classes, I am just starting my degree and failing all the math , 2.7 GPA I will never get into a college
doesn't mean I can't ask others for help
the authors of the problems themselves have in the past expressed their dislike of their problems being asked here as question
@MattN 8-).
people are free to not give help then
again, though, doesn't mean I can't ask
18:45
sure
I never said you should not ask
I think that "idea of those problems" is elitist anyway
It doesn't hurt to ask :D
well, I am an elitist in that way
@Jordan Well I did pass my calculus classes with A's. But I think the biggest difference between you and me is that I didn't have a crappy attitude about it.
I always give problems to my students with the idea that they solve them, for example
18:46
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez Mine did not solve the generating function question :-(.
@JohnSmith Is this your question?
i think collaboration is healthy
far different cry than merely asking for an answer to input; that defeats the whole purpose
but when you hit a brick wall, sometimes you still want to know how to get back on the right track
so you actually learn something
otherwise you're stuck by yourself, learning nothing, getting frustrated
@David it is hard having a good attitude when all I do is fail my classes though, I started with a good attitude, but really it is hard to be positive when there is nothing to be posititive about
Dylan: No
Jordan, you repeat yourself
incessantly
if there is nothing to be positive about, just quit and do somthing else
18:48
@JohnSmith You said you asked it on the main site. I'm trying to find it.
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez Hey Mariano!
I think I wound up deleting it
I don't use the main site anymore for PE questions
@Jordan If you are that easily deterred, and your attitude is so easily changed, then it is clear that you didn't have a good attitude to begin with. And you obviously don't believe in yourself enough to be willing to commit to succeeding.
18:49
was informed that it's too spoilery for those who don't want to come across vital info
that's why i come to the chat now instead
like a troll, Jordan feeds on attention
I dont like attention
at all
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez Do you have any opinion on the bit above about collaboration?
it would be interesting to see what the outcome would be of no one paying attention to his wailing
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez I know, and I always get trollolled by him!
18:50
I am all for collaboration
I have done collaboration with people on 4 continents so far
@JohnSmith Do you have a link to the Project Euler question, then? To save you the trouble of typing.
but there is a role to be played by facing a problem by oneself
hitting a wall is a very educational situation
moreover, the EUler Project problems are dsigned to be of increasing difficulty
with great care
@DylanMoreland tinyurl.com/cmx7xdg I can explain to you my current approach if you wish/are still interested in advising
there are problems with which I have battled for... 10 years now
4
18:52
Battled how?
if you plan to do math professionally, for example, learning how to deal with walls is very useful
3
well, humanity has battled with certain math problems for centuries
How do you deal with them when you have absolutely no idea how to progress?
you do something else, John
and then you come back
and try something else
But I have a great deal of the problems solved already
and you rinse and repeat
18:53
there are other subset problems in PE but this one is still different
i've solved the other variants
@JohnSmith I doubt I could be of much help. I'll take a look, though.
@DylanMoreland One key aspect is that any given subset is valid if the largest element of the subset is smaller than the sum of the rest of it
and so i can either look for subsets that are valid or look for invalid subsets and subtract them from the total possible, 2^n-1, not sure which way is best yet
since it's asking for an answer that stems from having a U list 10^18 elements long, it implies a logarithmic approach taking advantage of the recurrence relationship for s
what is the problem? link?
i compiled a bunch of information about the problem and there are lots of interesting progressions but any attempt to fit it to a pattern seems to not work. results start to diverge
feels like I am just trying to hack at the data blindly without really understanding the logical way to tackle the problem
@PeterTamaroff, it is better if you answer the questions as comments rather as an answer, because otherwise the connection to the question, and the context, is lost
19:04
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez But they are too long, Mariano.
this is just another instance of the fact that using the same engine for the main site and for the meta site is a terribly stupid idea, but we have to cope with it
use several comments :)
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez I tried to put them in the elections, but it seems only 1200 chars are allowed.
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez What role would you say reviewing material leading up to "the wall" plays in getting around the wall?
a lot :D
usually, walls are not jumped but slowly eroded
we are rodent of walls, if you want :)
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez I think I'll open a meta question on this issue. Answer's not voted get lost in the comments. It is not useful.
19:06
for instance if I want the answer to N=5, I can solve for the number of ways to count subsets with everything sans the last element summing to some k, where k = 0 to m, where m is the max element of s, then subtract all that from 2^n-1 (in the case of N=5 that's k=0 through 6)
@PeterTamaroff, it will not get dealt with in this election time
@PeterTamaroff I asked it already
moreover, I am completely sure this has been raised many, many times
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez Yes. It seems Gigili did.
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez Could you spare some time to see my mail?
19:08
I realized proving the series converges at the end is meaningless
I was planning to answer you todayish or tomorrow
:)
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez Oh! Ok
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez Any short thoughts?
these days I've been stuck writing stuff which is very boring but too timeconsuming, sadly
honestly, right now I don't remember---I have a printed copy at home
@PeterTamaroff This is a cool writeup. Maybe there could be more words. I don't see how you conclude at the very end. I mean, I'm sure it's true
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez Oh I see. I have a rather compact version here which Dyaln is looking at.
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez As you see "Maybe there could be more words" it is compact. =)
19:11
thanks anyways guys
Ah, I think I see.
@DylanMoreland What do you see?
Also, @Mariano, I'm offended by this comment:
> FWIW I upvoted this answer, too. Something that the candidates should know about, and certainly me the voter likes to hear about. BUT a nominee, who is not a research mathematician, should not register at MO as a response to this question. IMHO that is quite the wrong reaction. – Jyrki Lahtonen 3 hours ago
@Gigili Where is that?
19:14
@PeterTamaroff For the final deduction. You multiply the first equation by $\cos x$ and the second by $\sin x$, then add. And similarly for the other one.
@DylanMoreland Oh, right.
It depends on who your audience is.
If your audience is slowpokes like me, then I'd write a little something.
@PeterTamaroff A comment under rar's answer, on meta.
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez If by "a rodent" you mean we must scratch away at the wall doesn't reviewing material leading up to the wall help you take a run at it to leap over it?
@Gigili Yes, I saw it.
19:16
@Gigili, that comment says that registering as a reaction to the question is silly—that is true
one can register to check out the site, to ask questions, and what not. there is nothing offensive in the comment
@PeterTamaroff Also, I got distracted while reading your T-Ps. I'll continue now.
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez Stop getting all the stared comments!
Jyrki simply cannot mean that non-research mathematicians should not register, or any other such interpretations
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez Calling what I have done silly is not offensive?
He said "the wrong reaction".
@skullpatrol, well, sometimes reviewing shows you how to walk around the wall, too, or how to dig a tunnel below it, or it just provides you with a nuclear weapon with which to pulverise the wall...
3
19:17
It isn't any less offensive than "narrow-minded"
@N3buchadnezzar Couldn't help it.
if you registered to MO so as to add a checkmark to a presumed «checklist of things required of a MSE mod», yes, that would have been silly
I doubt you did it because of that
that is what Jyrki is clearly calling "the wrong action"
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez How far back would you suggest to review?
But these kind of nice comments will put people under the pressure that there's really something wrong with I did, just like TheChaz's comment
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez Of course not, I wanted to see what they mean by it being useful for a moderator, cross-posted questions and blahblah
19:22
Man it is hard to express how little I care Gigili, I now understand what Mariano meant about hitting a wall.
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez It must depend on the wall right?
Thanks :D
@PeterTamaroff You came up with this yourself, I take it?
As if I care!
19:25
@DylanMoreland Yes. Actually, I came up with another proof fisrt
jrg
jrg
@Gigili Relax, please.
Then talking with Kannppan I said, I SHOULD FIND A PROOF FOR exp and sine and cos
@Gigili, I really don't think such a reading will be popular---if you really think you have to make this point clear, add a comment explaining your motivation to join MO. I personally do not think that is needed.
I was going to bed when it hit me hwo to do so, and I wrote it.
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez The Wall
Dark sarcasm in the math classroom.
@jrg What?
@Gigili Gigili, try to chill out. I remember getting into discussions with ARyabhata for example, but I made amends and we get on well now.
Flower and choclate also works
So does the ignore button :D
In life as well as here.
Just my humble opinion...
19:33
: ) Fits. Someone told me Mazzola was a charlatan.
Ok, and why does [word](link) not work for me anymore?
Apparently it's not just on multi-liners.
YAY!
: )
That's an unexpected visitor : )
@MattN remove the blank after the smiley
@tb Thanks.
:)
If I'm not confusing someone: Has Mazzola ever given any lecture at ETH?
Because if yes then that's the guy who is believed to be a charlatan by someone I know.
@Gigili I mostly have the "active questions" selected, not the newest ones.
@MattN A friend of mine did her Ph.D. with him.
19:36
@tb Oops. : )
He was at the uni, though.
Ah that could also fit, I don't remember exactly.
@PeterTamaroff: I don't understand the last P (T4), could you explain?
@tb Thanks.
19:38
@Gigili Let me see.
@Gigili it is sort of an automatism that I look at posts by 1-rep users.
@Gigili It is a system of equations. Let the sine series be S and the cosine series be C. solve for C and S.
(they often need some help with formatting or have a question on the functioning of the site, or else it's spam). In any case I simply do it...
the upper is the pythagorean theorem, and the lower is just trivial.
@tb You're giving away tmi. Now I know the name of your friend. Eventually I'll know too much and you'll have to kill me like they do in films. : )
19:40
?
Never mind, just being silly.
Did you read her thesis? (what's your take on Mazzola?)
@MattN Ah, I see...
@MattN No. I'm not too big a fan of this musicology business...
@Gigili Do you understand now?
$1= \sin x \times S +\cos x \times C$
$0= \sin x \times C - \cos x \times S$
19:42
@MattN Let Todd Trimble say more :)
Is that what you mean @Peter?
@tb Ah yes, he links to the same blog post : )
@MattN these sorts of misconceptions eventually lead to Mückis with Meisen. :)
@Gigili Right.
Now solve for either S or C
Got it, thanks.
19:44
@tb Maybe Dr. Terry Allen = G. Mazzola.
@MattN Then GM did a good job at disguising himself on the video...
Or there are several different Terry Allens. After all, the one on the video didn't claim he was a doctor.
(That one time when I only give a hint instead of a full answer Asaf and Arturo both provide half of a book as an answer.)
And why does Arturo already have 3 upvotes?
Does he have a Chuck Magidin fan club?
Because Arturo is Chuck Norris :D
@MattN They do like to answer twenty times the same thing.
Oh, look! It's all in colours.
@tb I would too. For practice : )
(Not 100% sure, I might get bored eventually.)
19:51
@MattN he did. Look at the text at the very end of the video
(also guitarmath.com appears)
(I think that's how I found it)
@MattN No to be pedantic, but I think it is the only answer of the three, which is correct.
@MattN I think he deserves them .
@MartinSleziak Ooh, tell me!
@PeterTamaroff Thanks : ) I didn't mean to ask for votes by this, just for the record.
@MattN There's problem with finite vs. infinite dyadic expansions, isn't there?
@tb You really watched it to the end? : D Tell me which minute I don't want to watch it all (if possible). I'll try the very end. : )
Oh yes.
19:54
If someone can help me here, it will be welcomed! I received an unnecessarily advanced question, and I just want to solve the problem.
@MartinSleziak What problem?
We're talking about uncountability of (0,1) right?
@Gigili, (we generally do not forcefully delete questions which have answers and/or several comments)
@MartinSleziak Yes.
The problem that 0.100000......=0.0111111111111111111....
19:55
Why is that a problem if we enumerate them to show that there are more than countably many?
As Arthuro explained in this posts. (That was also the reason why he put comment on your post.)
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez Mariano, how would you call a parcial in Enligsh?
I have physics coming up on wednesday.
@MattN you want to produce one that certainly isn't in the list. If you're unlucky your list has $0.1000...$ appearing and always $0$'s on the diagonal entries
What if the first number is 0.100000000000000000...... and the number you obtain after flipping the diagonal is 0.0111111111111111111111.............?
@tb Right.
19:57
The same thing would not happen if these strings are characteristic functions (in the proof that $\mathcal P(\mathbb N)$ are not countable).
@Gigili This was the original proof (of $\log(1+x)$), FWIW.
But here they're dyadic numbers.
Always a good way to end a day when you've already feeling a bit miserable: write a wrong answer on SE.
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez I did the same on the other SE site, I thought it worked similar here.
@PeterTamaroff Thanks.
@MartinSleziak Yes, right, thank you.

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