« first day (2827 days earlier)      last day (2490 days later) » 
00:00 - 23:0023:00 - 00:00

23:00
Yup that's the right idea
@anakhronizein $\Bbb R\times S^1$
Hmm let me try it out and see how it is.
Don't use homotopy invariance
I'm interested what you can come up with
So if you take a closed form $\omega$, solve $\int_{S^1} \omega - k\int_{S^1}\omega_0 = 0$
@Daminark I finally wrote down the main definition in the GMT seminar, took 5 boards
23:03
That's the $k$ you want (he called it the signature of $\omega$, not sure if that's standard terminology or not). Then you can show using winding number that this gives you the right thing. Then it's easy to show that the difference of two forms is exact iff they have the same signature, and obviously the signature of $k\omega_0$ is $k$, so you're done.
@0celo7 jesus
Right now the guy speaking in our seminar is talking about measures which satisfy differential equations ("in the sense of distributions")
large font, but still
takes 2 pages in my thesis
@Daminark In short, there's a pairing $H_{dR}(S^1) \times \pi_1(S^1) \to \Bbb R$ given by taking $(\omega, \gamma)$ and spitting bars about $\int_\gamma \omega$. Every form $\omega$ is completely determined by the value of $(\omega, \gamma_0)$ where $\gamma_0$ is the generating loop in $\pi_1(S^1)$, hence the isomorphism with $\Bbb R$. On the other hand, every homotopy class of loops $\gamma$ is completely determined by $(\omega_0, \gamma)$ where $\omega_0$ is the angle form
@Daminark well remember this is the GR seminar but we're doing GR$\cap$GMT
So it also establishes the isomorphism $\pi_1(S^1) \cong \Bbb Z$
next semester it might be the GMT seminar proper
and then we'll do some GR :P
23:06
Ah I see. In analysis we computed $\pi_1(S^1) = \mathbb{Z}$ using the path lifting business. I don't think I could fully justify out the details at the time as to why you had it but in the smooth case and visually it was clear enough I think, since I had full points
@0celo7 Ah that makes sense. This seminar is very much not a GR one, I'll say that much :P
@BalarkaSen there's some PERSON in the physics room, help
he's saying algebra words to me
LOL RIP
@Daminark little little paths come booger booger up and loopy loopy twiddle twiddle
that's the proof
There are so many proofs for $\pi_1(S^n)$ it's so fun
@Daminark We'll probably do black holes, sets of finite perimeter, and (I)NMCF next semester
@GFauxPas I love the twiddleschmoopkinfloop proof
23:09
Lmao, in AT the professor did the proof in total point-set rigor
Like, take a loop and twiddleschloopkinfloop it to floop it all into $\Bbb R^n$ and slurpslorp
2
I'm at the last week of topology ii first year graduate and I'm still not emotionally-convinced that topology proofs are proofs
No I meant point-set rigor unironically
I think the proof in Munkres is very rigorous.
What is not a proof to you, @GFauxPas?
23:12
What I said is a valid proof
I said emotionally, I believe it intellectually but it feels like it's not math
It'd get a 10/10 grade if I wrote it on a pset
A proof is, by definition, 1/200 alcohol per volume
@GFauxPas !!!
???
Anakh, I mean, like
23:14
@BalarkaSen why do topologists even need a proof of the Jordan curve theorem
consider the lift of a cylinder by unwinding it like a roll of film, infinitely long
@0celo7 ? we do?
then I shall prove that the lift of a loop might not be a loop, globally
only locally
In all seriousness, it's really nontrivial to see it should hold for fractal-like curves
but it might be a loop globally
23:16
I think a topologist just wants to know that every curve has a good notion of intersection number
consider a stick figure, with a filled in-head for simplicity, drawn on the side of a cylinder, clasping hands with himself
then when you unwrap the roll of film, his image will be a disjoint union of loops
BUT
That's a good motivation
I've never seen a curve bad enough that would convince me JCT might be wrong :P
Osgood curve
if you draw him hugging the cylinder so that his hands go all the way around and touch on the other side
then his image will be a loop globally
23:17
Contrary to it's name, that curve is no good
$\blacksquare$
that doesn't feel like a proof
it doesn't even feel like math
I know the Osgood curve. It's bad, so what
I can imagine walking along a curve...there's no issue, believe me
@0celo7 So I have no reason to expect that doesn't separate the plane into infinitely many bits
I don't think I actually want that on the starboard saved forever
23:19
You're making up a pathology here
There's no reason to believe it's not a perfectly good curve
@0celo7 there's no reason to believe it is. You're looking in the end for a local structure theorem
Injective images of $[0,1]$ in the plane are good. Injective images of $(0,1)$ in the plane are bad.
We just need to prove that compactness is as good as we want it to be
That says you can find a neighborhood of any point so the image of the curve is just y = 0
And idk, though of course homeomorphism don't preserve measure it still means that whatever changes we have to make must be wiiiild
Sort of hard to imagine what we must be doing. At least, I don't immediately believe someone who tells me this is a true structure theorem
Especially given it fails for 2-sphwees in 3d
By the way, how's this for an elementary characterization of a property that distinguishes $\Bbb R^2$ from $\Bbb R^3$? (Without referring to homology/homotopy):
The Jordan-Schoenflies is of course much harder than Jordan
23:22
@BalarkaSen yeah that one I can see not believing
Honestly the Osgood curve looks sketchy as hell
@Akiva it's good but idk about elementary
I didn't type it yet
Snipe fail
@AkivaWeinberger removing a point from one changes pi_1
23:23
Yeah but maybe I'm still right
Now you don't even need to
Without talking about homotopy
In $\Bbb R^2$, there exists two closed sets $A$ and $B$ whose complements are connected, with $A\cap B$ being a point and $\Bbb R^2\setminus(A\cup B)$ disconnected
@Akiva that's brilliant
pi_1 is ab(H^1)
Does anyone know for a graph with n vertices to be planar is it necessary and sufficient for it to have less than or equal to 3n-6 edges?
literally other way around
it's cohomology
23:23
Fact: every compact totally disconnected subset of the plane is a subset of a Jordan arc
In $\Bbb R^3$, for any two closed sets $A$ and $B$ with connected complements and intersection a point, the complement of their union is connected
@Akiva I remember this
Shit, the plane is weird man
Fact: We will all die and these curves will die with us
guys, does the Poincare lemma only apply to sets which are star-shaped w.r.t. the origin?
23:24
Thus, $\Bbb R^2\not\cong\Bbb R^3$
@ShaVuklia no
But they do contain any totally disconnected subset of the plane
When we die, the Jordan curves will be prancing around
(In the plane: take two halves of a line)
@MikeMiller I never got around to looking up a proof of this
and/or trying to prove it myself
I assume you mean that we will all die
23:26
I imagine, if the subset is bounded, we can contain them in an image of $[0,1]$?
heroes never die
you can't kill what was never alive
I think the proof is easier than anything Jordan Curve-related
@MikeMiller There is no proof of this either
Hmm, how general does Poincare get?
Like, star-shaped, but could it also work for contractible sets? Simply connected?
23:27
o never mind about Poincare btw
There's a generalization to $\infty$-stacks
The deterioration that comes with age is a poison, and we have not yet found an antidote to the poison, but there might yet be one
Is that general enough
(as far as my question goes)
@Daminark take a form in $W^{k,p}$ on a contractible set, then you can find a form in $W^{k+1,p}$ with blah blah.
23:28
Okay not that type of general, I don't believe in counting derivatives. Everything is smooth
@Balarka now we're talking :eyes:
Did you see CGP Grey's video on senescence? (The fable one) I think he's having a mid-life crisis
@BalarkaSen what is an infinity stack
@0celo7 Lots of them
@AkivaWeinberger That's just one perspective. That the sapient lifespan has a well-defined start and an endpoint is also very interesting in it's own, and much more than something you'd classify as "poison"
My life doesn't have a well-defined endpoint until it ends
23:33
folds sleeve, unrolls collar
I will define it soon
nevermind obviously
The universe ends when I end
I will never be proven wrong on this
I wanted to make more mean comments but I won't
23:35
@BalarkaSen lil pump is 17
:(
he was born in 2000
Also, the universe will end on Thursday
This isn't a threat or a warning, it just is
Unsleeping Balarka is getting mean and ornery ... again?
Hi Ted!
Hi JoeShmo
Hi Ted!
23:39
Hi GFaux.
watching you presenting differential forms for the 20th time. It's all clear after 20 times
Good grief. Aren't 2 or 3 sufficiently boring?
yeah. 20 figurative times
i lost count anyway :)
Hey Ted!
Guess you shouldn't be a number theorist, JoeShmo, if you lose count that easily :P
hi Demonark
23:41
!deT iH
everything started clicking after i read a little bit of spivak, btw.
Oh wow this is a new development @0celo7
@JoeShmo I never watched once
meh, im more of an algbera, topology kinda guy anyway
Spivak's Calculus on Manifolds is sorta impenetrable. His Diff Geo text is much better written.
And his Calculus is mastery ...
23:43
i think it may have been his diff geo
my professor quoted his professor
as soon as he defined an atlasii properly, everything just clicked into place
"Spivak's Calculus is a masterpiece. "Calculus on Manifolds" isn't"
@Daminark I didn't get a response. Sad!
@GFauxPas Probably a symptom of manifolds sucking
"read his calculus and manifolds books, but not his calculus on manifolds book"
23:44
@GFauxPas: In fairness, Calculus on Manifolds was the first book Spivak wrote, basically right out of grad school.
cuz until you do that, how on earth are you going to define differentiability
needless to say, neither the lecturer, nor his beloved notes do either properly
oh I have no judgments, i'm just quoting
Well, if you do submanifolds of R^n, you don't need atlases :)
Does anyone know what phi means in the context of graph theory, i.e. a graph G = (V, E), V != phi ?
thats not the route we went
23:46
empty set, @Rooday
Thanks!
"there is a vertex"
Could someone tell me if this is correct: If $f(x)=0,0<x<1$ and $f(x)=1,1<x<3$ then $lim_{x\to0^+}f(x)=1$,$lim_{x\to0^-}f(x)=0$, $lim_{x\to1^+}f(x)=1$,$lim_{x\to1^-}f(x)=0$,$lim_{x\to3^+}f(x)=0$,$lim_{x\to3^-}‌​f(x)=1$ ?
$\phi$ and $\varnothing$ are similar but they're different symbols
I mean, @JoeShmo, of course you need charts, but what differentiability means is way easier.
23:47
the vertex set is not empty. I.e. there is at least one vertex
I guess we can have a graph with no edges. Yup.
well, you would define T_x(M) as the vector space tangent to M at the point x?
@Ted I'm maybe 0.1% afraid to ask, but would you have time? (I have done tons of examples in the past few days, on a related note btw)
why aren't parameterization and reparameterization an issue?
0.1% is not much
23:49
Even 1% isn't much.
I'm here only for a little while, Sha, but OK.
if you could only give a hint on this exercise;
Let $f\colon\mathbb R^n\to\mathbb R$ be a differentiable function, and $0\in f[\mathbb R^n]$. Assume $\nabla f\neq 0$ on $f^{-1}(0)=M$. Let $a\in\mathbb M$. Then $M$ is an $(n-1)$-dimensional manifold. Show that the tangent space $M_a$ of $M$ at $a$ is given by
$$
M_a=\{v_a\in\mathbb R_a^n: v_a\perp\nabla f(a)\}.
$$
"I couldn't understand what was wrong with my knee, and then it clicked"
these were my thoughts: I can see intuitively why this should hold, because our level set will never go in the direction of the gradient, and therefore the only subspace that won’t be part of $M_a$ is the one that lies perpendicular to the gradient. But how can I show this a little bit more rigourously? So I would somehow need to show that $\langle v_a,\nabla f(a)\rangle=0$. I don't really know what coordinate function to use, because $M$ is given implicitly..?
@AkivaWeinberger ouch
You should recognize this as a generalization of gradients perpendicular to level sets in basic multivariable calc, @Sha.
23:51
yes I recognise that
couldn't find it in my notes anymore tho:(
Suppose you parametrize $M$ by $\phi\colon U\to\Bbb R^n$, $U\subset\Bbb R^{n-1}$. How do you give the tangent space in terms of $\phi$?
ncatlab.org/nlab/show/simple+object can someone give a simple counterexample to prop 2.1 when the field is not algebraically closed? (An example through quiver representations would be also perfect) Btw, as I understand it, Hom(x,y) is a vector space, not the objects (just a semi-question about the meaning of enriched)
I'd say $(D\phi(x)\mathbb R^{n-1})_a$, where $\phi(x)=a$?
I don't like your notation, but OK.
So how do you use the way $M$ is defined?
implicit function theorem?
23:54
You don't need it, since they said you can assume $M$ is a manifold.
@ShaVuklia Why don't you use the curve definition of the tangent space
0celo, don't muddle things. This is not a graduate manifolds course.
I'm not sure how I can use the property of $M$ then, I'm afraid
How is $M$ defined, @Sha?
as the 0 level set
23:56
So if you take $\phi(x)$ for any $x\in U$, what is true?
@TedShifrin This is how one does it in calc 3!
Maybe, 0celo. Or one talks about directional derivatives.
Yeah, directional derivatives.
Calc 3! = Calc 6, c'mon
4
23:57
$f(\phi(x))\equiv 0$?
There you go, @Sha. Now finish!
/r/unexpectedfactorial
#unexpectedfactorial
Choose whichever one idk
Hi, DogAteMy.
@Daminark calc 6 = federer
But yeah I saw it as curves in the sense of, you can literally take a curve and take its derivative as one in R^n. That definitely strikes me as the most intuitive one
23:58
I think showing curve definition = parametrization def was an exercise in GP
The curve one for abstract manifolds seems like it'd be trickier to actually work with though
Demonark, sure, but it's not totally obvious with that definition why you get the right dimensional vector space (or a vector space at all).
@Daminark it's probably the best
curves/directional derivatives are so similar
00:00 - 23:0023:00 - 00:00

« first day (2827 days earlier)      last day (2490 days later) »