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Zee
Zee
17:00
can’t I have my hero’s ?
So then $\sum C_i$ divided by $(1+e^{\pi i/6}$ is your answer
Hey everyone!
Howdy, DogAteMy, Perturbative, Eric
right, so, let's see
Yo @Ted
17:00
having heros != claiming that one could have been said hero
and Semiclassic and GFaux
@GFauxPas You do need to check that the value of $\dfrac{x^{1/3}}{x^2+1}$ over that big semicircular arc from $N$ to $-N$ does indeed go to zero
Heya @Ted
Zee
Zee
A child wearing a costume jumps on bed and says “ I am Batman! “ so why not me ?
17:01
You don't mean value .. you mean integral
...so you're comparing yourself to a child
Zee
Zee
Yes
well, good to know how to take you
@TedShifrin Yes
Well, the value of the integral :P
glares at DogAteMy
Zee
Zee
17:02
childre. Are very honest
uhh
riiiight
Zee
Zee
They lie out of fear only
here's a fun article, though I have no idea how well sourced it is
I already proved to myself that the integral around the tiny semicircle is bounded by $\left \vert{\dfrac {\epsilon^2}{1-\epsilon^2}}\right\vert$
so I can ignore it
@Zee If you don't realize how cringe this is I don't know what to say
17:04
so i can ignore it
@GFauxPas Yeah
@GFauxPas Yeah
@GFauxPas, surely there is a $\pi$, and I don't see the $\epsilon^2$ for the numerator. That's wrong, methinks.
Zee
Zee
That’s a nice article full of subtle insults
Of course, I came in late ...
well I was ignoring the $\pi$ because it's not relevant when $\epsilon \to 0$, let's see about the squared
17:06
If you're telling me a bound, it should be correct.
we're integrating $\int_0^\infty \dfrac {x^{1/3}}{x^2 + 1} \mathrm dx$
Zee
Zee
Discovery is the privilege of the child: the child who has no fear of being once again wrong, of looking like an idiot, of not being serious, of not doing things like everyone else.
oh I see
Zee
Zee
Grothendieck said that
$\epsilon^{4/3}$
17:08
We're making $C_1$ the reals from $\epsilon$ to $N$, $C_2$ a big semicircle from $N$ to $-N$, $C_3$ the reals from $-N$ to $-\epsilon$, and $C_4$ the semicircle from $-\epsilon$ to $\epsilon$. And then we divide it by $1+e^{\pi i/3}$ @TedShifrin
tbh idk how much you have read of grothendieck but he was a little lopsided outside of his contributions to math
well, hello @Balarka
'cause the integral over $C_3$ should be $e^{\pi i/3}$ times the integral over $C_1$, and the rest should go to zero
he wrote in fashionable ways but had nothing much to say
Zee
Zee
He was the last prophet , after Dostoyevsky and Wittgenstein
17:09
lol ^
you're a cringefest
@Ted Hi!
so it's bounded by $\pi \left \vert {\dfrac {\epsilon^{4/3}}{1-\epsilon^2} }\right \vert $,
OK, @GFauxPas, we're on the same page now.
which shrinks as $\epsilon \to 0$
@GFauxPas $\left\lvert\dfrac{x^{1/3}}{1+x^2}\right\rvert$, being continuous, has some bound $M$ on the circle of radius $\frac12$ about the origin
@BalarkaSen he wrote like a lot about politics and a lot of it is like super not insightful lol it's p interesting to read abt his whackiness honestly
17:10
Oops. You screwed up the denominator, @GFauxPas. Your $1-\epsilon^2$ originally was correct.
I was editing it as you spoke :)
and then the integral of $C_4$ is less than $M\pi\epsilon$ for $\epsilon<\frac12$
@EricSilva I like his versatility of language. His philosophy, even philosophy of mathematics, not much
It's way too grandiose
as poetry, it's fine
yeah that
17:11
as serious philosophy...
r/iam14andthisisdeep
r/iamverysmart
so what about $C_2$
@BalarkaSen yet somehow also limiting
@EricSilva I can see why a classical geometer like you would say that :)
I got chewed out for not being nice to a gentle flower on main yesterday (despite hours of having helped over the months) and now this room is nuts. I think I need a long sabbatical.
4
17:13
I agree.
@Ted lol
Sorry, I forgot to ask. How are you doing?
Doing OK. Have you re-emerged on the other side of exams?
right, the issue is for $R \gg 0$
Just one left!
The day after tomorrow. Chemistry.
Almost congratulations.
Math went very well; I was very nervous about it. Thanks to you, I could do the coordinate geometry using vector algebra :)
vectors are 2 powerful
the whole direction cosines formalism has a very natural translation in that language
17:15
I doubt that's thanks to me, but OK. Yes, indeed.
In my AoPS exam, they all avoided vectors and used analytic geometry. I was peeved.
@Ted I ended up very glad i ended up doing complex analysis over quantum because hot damn I love me some classical projective stuff
What classical projective stuff?
BTW, Eric, do you know any modern answer to this? It seems a bad idea to me, but ...
We were doing loads of stuff about the geometry of CP^1 and I've been doing spare reading in pedoe
@TedShifrin I think your AoPS exams/notes/whatever you have are going to be of use to me because of the upcoming admission exams
17:17
@GFauxPas I guess $|x+1|>\frac12|x|$ when $|x|$ is large enough?
Probably when $|x|>2$
oh, stuff like stereographic projection being conformal, etc.
So I might ask you for those
Yeah, 'cause you get equality with $x=-2$
I doubt it, Balarka, but although I can freely share my own homeworks and exams, I can't share those.
I can send you supplementary exercises I've written, of course.
@TedShifrin idk of any books that focus on dealing with a general manifold as ambient but I'm sure it's talked about somewhere in the standard books I haven't read thoroughly enough
17:19
I mean, even Federer starts off in Euclidean spaces, Eric.
heya demonic @Alessandro. Have you run me over officially now?
@TedShifrin Ah gotcha. Those would be nice too. I think I will have to go through some of the harder computations of your diffgeom text and multcalc text soon.
Nah, I failed my driving exam again, woops
17:19
I think the OP is ill-advised to do what he thinks he wants, @EricSilva.
I have a geodiff question though
lmao @Alessandro
Remind me why Ale is demonic?
Damn, @Alessandro. What's with you?!!
He's a demonic Italian driver
17:20
You're an absent-minded professor at the age of 21?
I can't drive, like a proper Italian :P
so the bound is $\dfrac {r^{1/3}}{2r^2} r \pi$
@TedShifrin yeah idk why exactly someone would write the thing they are asking for to begin with
Note the position of that comma, @Alessandro. I think it's what you meant.
@GFauxPas $2$ in the numerator probably
17:20
@TedShifrin I turn 23 this year! (And maybe absent-minded, but definitely not a professor)
Damn, you got old.
@GFauxPas Not that it matters much
inb4 arturo beneditto giovanni giuseppe pietro archangelo alfredo cortafelli da milano
It goes to zero anyway
:) excellent
17:21
What's your diff geo question, Alessandro?
Oh, right, it's diffgeo in English (we shorten it to geodiff in Italian because adjectives and nouns are swapped)
So we defined today the area of a subset of a surface in $\Bbb R^3$ via the first fundamental form (it was done in a hurry tbh). How do I see that this agrees with the Hausdorff $2 dimensional measure?
Gediffo in languages in which adjectives are infixes /s
So you understand the Gram determinant? That's where that formula really comes from.
You're asking why $\mathscr H^k$ for a $k$-dimensional submanifold of $\Bbb R^n$ agrees with the induced area measure on the submanifold.
@TedShifrin I vaguely remember that from an exercise you gave me a couple of years ago
@0celo7 what might a focus of a foliation/vector field be?
17:25
I have never heard that terminology ^
@TedShifrin what's the induced area measure in the $k$-dimensional case?
So that's the real reason for the formula you were given using the first fundamental form, @Alessandro. Now the Hausdorff measure question is tangential to that, really.
@BalarkaSen I have a feeling it is french
We're only doing surfaces in $\Bbb R^3$ so far
As a differential $k$-form, it assigns to a basis for the tangent space at $x$ the induced $k$-dimensional volume of the $k$-dimensional parallelepiped spanned.
17:26
"Foyer"
Right. So how do you define $\mathscr H^2$ for a surface? It should suffice to do this on a $2$-dimensional plane and see they agree.
I've never heard of it, either, @anakhronizein, @Balarka.
Context?
Differential forms keep popping up... I should really read your book
You can read fancier books, @Alessandro. You know a lot.
But what you're talking about is an exercise in my multivariable book, indeed, on the section on surface integrals.
Not $\mathscr H^2$, of course.
Anyhow, I would suggest you understand your question for just a piece of a plane.
@TedShifrin well I can define it for any subset of $\Bbb R^n$
17:29
"given a singular foliation without isochore singularities on a surface, we say that a focus $x_0$ and a saddle $x_1$ are in simple elimination position if when one positively orients the foliation near $x_1$, one and only one stable separatrix connects to $x_0$"
(Some won't be measurable of course)
Well, do it for a subset of a general plane and see why it agrees with the formula you have. That should convince you, since locally a surface is well-approximated by a piece of its tangent plane.
ohhh, you're talking about a zero of a vector field @anakhronizein.
Oh, it's a singularity?
so a focus has index $0$ or $n$ ...
I guess you're doing surfaces?
Morse index?
Yes.
17:32
Well, a vector field needn't come from a Morse function.
@TedShifrin I don't think the fancy books I've read on forms usually have great expositions
Well then what sort of index?
Index of a vector field gives you the degree of the map on a little circle around the zero (singular point).
Maybe I just don't like fancy tho
No, @EricSilva, they don't.
17:33
@TedShifrin ohh, I see, that's a nice approach. I can also use the Lebesgue measure at this point for the plane which is somewhat nicer
But Alessandro can understand forms using tensors, whereas I avoided them assiduously.
Ah ok I wouldn't have counted tensors as enough to qualify for fancy I guess
If you know that $\mathscr H^k$ on $\Bbb R^n$ restricts to the induced $\mathscr L^k$ for the plane, sure.
@Eric: By doing everything directly in terms of determinants, I avoided all the skew-symmetrization of tensor product stuff.
The real mess is defining wedge product, usually.
@AkivaWeinberger i'm not getting a wholly real answer :(
I know that $H^n$ and $L^n$ agree in $\Bbb R^n$
17:35
Then you be wrong, @GFauxPas.
Exterior algebra can be kinda messy in terms of definitions
@TedShifrin Balarka tried to explain that and the exterior algebra to me an year or so ago
That's not quite good enough, though, @Alessandro, is it?
i don't think we were right that we can find the answer by integrating over the whole loop then dividing by $1 + e^{i \pi /6}$
17:36
I'm not sure the sign is correct in that, @GFauxPas. Whoa. Why $e^{i\pi/6}$?
hey @TedShifrin
Exterior algebra via quotient is really pretty though
can I ask a question in Harris
IMHO the only way to do it.
Quotient is algebraically elegant, but bad for differential geometry where you need to compute.
You HO is wrong. :P
17:37
Suppose $\Phi(r)=\int_{-\infty}^r \frac{1}{\sqrt{2\pi}}e^\frac{x^2}{2}dx$. How can I see the estimate $1-\Phi(r)<e^\frac{r^2}{2}$ for $r>0$? Any hint?
Hey, we all have opinions.
I love the basis-wise definition
congrats @BalarkaSen
Because the integral isn't over the whole real line, so we reasoned that the integrand is ALMOST even, in that for the left half plane it's $e^{i \pi /6}$ times the integral over the righht half plane
Sure it's pretty and when you sit down and work through it your like yeah wow elegance wow but when you like need to do concrete things with it you just go back to multi at the end of the day
17:38
Transcend those coordinates.
At least I do
@TedShifrin nope, but it's close
@TedShifrin I think there is a slight issue in a proof of Harris book
You're going backwards on the negative axis, @GFauxPas, and I don't get the $6$ there.
So say I wanna prove that the cone, which I'll call $C$ not a smooth manifold (as defined in G&P). I could prove part of it the following way: Assume that a nbhd of the vertex $v \in C$ is diffeomorphic to a nbhd $U^*$ in $\mathbb{R}^n$ for some $n > 1$. Let $\phi$ denote the diffeomorphism. Observe that $U \setminus \{v\}$ is not path connected whereas $U^* \setminus \{\phi(V)\}$ is path connected a contradiction.
17:38
Griffiths/Harris, Karim?
yeah
Harris has all sorts of books, as does Griffiths.
There are issues with a number of proofs, but generally they're OK. Which one?
ooh that's from an earlier attempt of finding a good contour
before we decided on this one
But how could I prove that a nbhd of $v$ is not diffeomorphic to an open subset of $\mathbb{R}$?
No, @Perturbative. It's a topological manifold just fine. It's the differentiable stuff that goes wrong.
17:39
@TedShifrin For U an open set in $\mathbb{C}$ and $f \in C^{\infty}(U)$, f is holomorphic iff f is analytic. For the converse
I think he is assuming that we can write f(z) as an integral
Oh, you're on page 5 or something?
@TedShifrin Yeah I am just reviewing few things
This is the standard stuff from the Cauchy integral formula.
yeah
Also what about the pushforward measures of the Lebesgue measure through the parametrizations? Those are just a mess I think, they depend on the parametrization and I'm not even sure they can be glued together on the whole surface
17:40
But his proof has something off
@TedShifrin I think to use that f(z) can be written as integral you can't use that yet
No, @Alessandro, you want the restricted area, coming from the ambient space. That's not the push-forward from the parametrization.
Where precisely in the book are you, Karim?
I am just giving some review for a class in complex analysis prof asked me to use Harris's book
page 4
for the converse
They have the Cauchy integral formula on the bottom of p. 2.
So what're you talking about?
yeah but you have an extra term as well
coming from the 2 form
thanks for your help Ted and Akiva
17:43
Bubye, @GFauxPas.
But they explain why that vanishes, Karim.
Power series are holomorphic (satisfy $\bar\partial=0$).
@TedShifrin yeah I thought so. Are there "area-preserving" parametrizations in the sense that the push-forward measure agrees with the one coming from the ambient space?
@Alessandro: Almost never. It'll turn out only when your surface is locally isometric to the plane.
ohh
I see
yeah I missed that
I think this proof is probably too advanced for undergrad
Karim: You are way too quick to claim that books have mistakes. You always do this, and it's usually your not paying attention.
@TedShifrin makes sense, thanks!
17:44
Yes, I would not do this proof for undergraduates.
yeah @TedShifrin I tend to always skip words while reading
it is bad habbit
But when your inclination is to say the book is wrong, tell yourself to go back and read carefully. ALways.
@TedShifrin Sorry I meant the "double cone", surely that isn't a topological manifold?
yeah I agree @TedShifrin
@Perturbative: No, that isn't. Then you're right that it's just a topological argument. Pulling out the vertex disconnects it, whereas that doesn't happen in a disk (dimension > 1, of course).
17:46
Can anyone provide complex analysis video lectures link, other that nptel once? (I am asking this, because i just got to know that this awesome lecture series on multivariable calculus exists, but neither youtube nor google was recommending that).
@TedShifrin I want to send Harris a thank you note for his book
So you need to prove directly that a complex power series is differentiable, or else use Morera's Theorem. I don't know what they know.
it is really one of the best books I have am reading
yeah Morera is probably good idea
Again, it's Griffiths and Harris.
Griffiths is pretty much retired, but still very much alive.
11
Q: Video Lessons in Complex Analysis

Anderson Felipe ViveirosDoes anybody have some link for good video lessons of a complete course in Complex Analysis? Grateful.

17:47
Yeah I want to send both of them a thank you note
@BAYMAX oh! jackpot. thank you so much
I saw your name btw in the start of the book @TedShifrin
Yup, Karim. I was one of the people reading and criticizing pre-publication. Some of the things I complained about are still there :P
That is nice
17:49
LOL, thanks for the plug, @Silent.
It's been linked on my profile page here for 3 years or more.
Thanks @Ted :)
haha.
I really enjoy making people passionate about math
@TedShifrin one student sent me a thank you email for teaching him
That's very nice, Karim. It's nice to get such expressions of gratitude through your life. I ruined a few people's lives. :)
I think one can be a good teacher and good researcher as well. It just takes dedication.
@TedShifrin I was in dark! Just curious, do you take rigorous approach in your lectures or 'engineering' approach as taken in MIT OCW multivariable calculus?
17:52
can every holomorphic function be written as the sum $x(u,v) + iy(u,v)$ of real valued functions that are continuous in the real sense?
@TedShifrin I don't think so your lectures are awesome.
the proof of CRE seems to assume yes
@Perturbative long time no see! so now there is a room on Differentiable Manifolds.‌​.
Ted ruined my life by telling me my opinion sux :((((((((((((
@AlessandroCodenotti It's a hard theorem called the area formula.
17:54
Moreover, he did told me using a geometric approach. :(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
you know @TedShifrin it is crazy how discplined I am now compared to undergrad.
@BAYMAX the link to Bernd Schroder videos is broken, do you have link to taose lectures?
I was joking around in undergrad and depending on my intelligence all the time
@AlessandroCodenotti Although for C^1 surfaces it just follows from the Lebesgue change of variables formula.
@Silent: There are plenty of computations but it's proof-oriented, for sure.
17:56
@TedShifrin wow.
brb
@GFauxPas I can't find where we messed up :(
Apparently the answer is $\frac\pi{\sqrt3}$ as well
@AlessandroCodenotti The key is to use local graph parametrizations. Then the graph measure agrees with the Hausdorff measure by the area formula, and the graph measure agrees with the surface measure more or less by definition, or some basic Riemannian geometry if you define it intrinsically.
DogAteMy: I didn't check your residues. But you're off by a sign on the correction factor, aren't you? You come down the negative real axis backwards.
Oh, that's true
Now we get a real answer, but it's still not the correct answer
18:00
Hold on. I'm computing.
me too could not find it, @Silent
@BAYMAX yeah. its disappointing. I have read professor Schroder. he is very clear and in fact a helping hand.
you read, does that mean the book?
@BAYMAX i don't know if he has one on complex analysis, but i read Mathematical Analysis: A Concise Introduction by him.
excellent book.
I see!
18:12
@0celo7 We didn't give a full proof of the area formula in the analysis course, but that makes sense, thanks!
@Akiva @GFauxPas: So your sign was originally correct. You pick up the $e^{\pi i/3}$ from the branch of cube root, but there is no minus sign. You go backwards, but you change the limits, so it's $1+e^{\pi i/3}$, as you originally said. The residue computation then gives $$\pi (2\cos \pi/6)/|1+e^{\pi i/3}|^2.$$
Which certainly is real.
And gives $\pi/\sqrt3$, as desired.
where'd the $|\cdot|$ come from
How do you derive equally weighted parameterizations?
Multiplying by the conjugate of the denominator.
aaah
thanks Ted
18:19
You're welcome.
@JohnJoe: i don't know what that means. :(
For instance, somehow these polynomials in the form of x^2+/-y^2=c, aka conic sections, are all somehow parameterized curiously by exponential functions, cosh and sinh instead of f(x,y) = t, P(t)
I asked the prof if I can leave the answer unsimplified and he said he wants it to have only real numbers in the expression, at least
and if that's the case its not that much more work to evaluate things like $\cos (\pi/6)$
how did they parameterize polynomials in that specific incoherent way?
and how is it done for other function?
Conics are very special, @JohnJoe. Ellipses are all done with $\sin$ and $\cos$ and hyperbolas are done with $\sinh$ and $\cosh$. You can also parametrize conics by rational functions. But other algebraic curves, in general, can't be parametrized explicitly at all.
@GFauxPas: I agree with your professor.
so in other words, they converted the equations to polar coordinates first
then what?
18:22
I do too, I just like being lazy :P
After the total work, this is not even $\epsilon^3$.
No, @JohnJoe, not converting to polar coordinates, really.
well I don't see any other way to throw sin and cosine into a polynomial
Just knowing about the unit circle and then that the hyperbolic functions do the standard hyperbola $x^2-y^2=1$ because $\cosh^2 u-\sinh^2 u = 1$.
no the process is always more specific for that
it's not only circles that can be parameterized
and it's because there's more information thatn what you're specifying
than*
I understand that. But I don't know what you're talking about now.
You're not going to get a parabola this way.
It's also a conic.
18:25
the process for deducing the orthogonal parameterization of a given curve in Cartesian coordinates
There is no general process or such parametrization.
well there can't not be when there's other shapes defined parametrically
maybe it's just not your area of expertise
which is fine
but I don't think you should naysay then
Is a hyperbola like $1/x$ a conic section ?
Fine. You be the expert.
Yes, @GFauxPas. You mean $xy=1$.
Which is the exact toxic attitude that slows math
I've already found parameterizations that were previously unknown and am publishing to arXiv
18:26
Yeah I mean thatb
I'm looking for the general process
Fine, @JohnJoe. I'm sure you know more than I do. Have fun.
Send me your first book.
Again your unawareness of your own Eurocentricism leading you to be sarcastic is part of a larger problem that you're contributing to
Wew lad
I really think I need that sabbatical.
18:30
@JohnJoe That's not Nice. Take some time away from the keyboard.
The attitude around this place is amazing.
@TedShifrin me 2
Whoa I wasn't paying much attention to this chat, Ted why didn't you tell me you were trying to destroy the world
I never claim to know everything after 40+ years as a published mathematician, but somehow I end up being called rude and destructive to all the little flowers.
I know, @GFauxPas. It's gotten serious.
man, I look away and stuff goes weird again
"parametrizing curves is more art than science" seems like a fairly innocuous statement
Zee
Zee
18:39
@John joe what’s your problem? He’s helping you out
lmao
the standard conics are Eurocentric?
Zee
Zee
Ted isnt even European
He’s a red blooded American
I mean, is there a philosophical reason to prefer one coordinate system than another, if they're compatible in the sense of differentiable manifolds for example?
western civ, compared to eastern ...
he's as american as alex jones
Zee
Zee
18:42
Idk what you mean but it makes no sense
It's interesting, though. All the conics are projectively equivalent, and you can put the ellipses and hyperbolas in a family using exponentials, but there's a discontinuity as you pass through parabolas/lines, and only the rational parametrization of conics seems to extend reasonably across those parabolas/lines, I guess.
Zee
Zee
Is there actually some controversy am not aware of between western and eastern math?
Not unless you manufacture one, I think.
@Zee old Hebrew algebraists made right actions standard.
This makes reading the bible kind of hard
Zee
Zee
as in the opposite of function compostion
?
18:46
the action of a module is on the left
but you can also define it on the right
hello chat
Zee
Zee
I don’t think chad is here today
Some people actually do write things backwards
$f:Y\leftarrow X$ is apparently much better
Blasphemy
Zee
Zee
18:48
??? That like things write would they @0celo7
!aaaaaaaaa
a lecturer of mine was telling me that his lecturer in his first year would write $(x) f \circ g$ because he felt that the convention of writing $g \circ f (x)$ but first applying $f$ and then $g$ was too confusing for his students
How is the "uniform measure" define?
Zee
Zee
Alright , am gonna go buy some Chinese food, I don’t even like Chinese food but am trying to get the number of the girl working there
Hi Ted @TedShifrin
18:50
... but then you're gonna confuse them when they encounter the standard convention
How are you. Haven't see you for a while.
@GFauxPas And, inevitably, it was the only module for which that convention was used, and all of the students were confused by it
hahaha

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