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04:00
@hhh: That doesn't sound like a problem I'd like to help with (too much thinking, too little interest), but you might as well try and nab someone here.
leo
leo
hi there!
hello
leo
leo
I'm stuck with an ODE's problem, can someone helpme?
@anon what happened to your last avatar?
@Jeff: The twins? It's in my folder of gravatars, but not my current one. Why? @leo: Probably...
04:03
@anon : Is there any nice place where you find pictures for a gravatar ?
just curious. i meant the one which seemed to be a drawing of a person (you?) who had a pointy nose. it's the only one i'd seen you with
@Rajesh: DeviantArt searches for your favorite characters or things is one. Also, mspaint and Mathematica :P
@Jeff hmmm..
thanks @anon
leo
leo
Let $x$ a solution of $x'=x(x^2-t^2)$, such that $|x(t_0)|\lt |t_0|$. I need to show that $|x(t)|\lt |t|$ for all $|t|\gt |t_0|$.
These have been mine so far. The glasses one I don't think I used yet.
04:06
you have the same avatar as robjohn. thief.
that was for April 1st. fun times were had.
it sounds like a wild and crazy time :D
leo
leo
@anon can you help me?
if not busy
if you want
I think it's equivalent to showing $x^2-t^2<0$. That might help.
hhh
hhh
$\int_0^1\int_{3y=x}^{3=x} ...dx dy = \int_{3y=x}^{3=x} ... dy dx$ ?!?
04:11
That =x thing is confusing.
@hhh: math.ucla.edu/~robjohn/math/mathjax.html It's a bookmarklet we use.
Oh, you're talking about the right-click bug in chrome..
@anon: what a refractive gravatar!
hhh
hhh
$\int_0^1\int_{3y=x}^{3=x} ...dx dy = \int_{3y=x}^{3=x}\int_0^1 ... dy dx$?!
(I had err in the last one, now LaTex works)
What would it mean, the equality?
@robjohn: Indeed. :-) @hhh: The RHS of that is nonsensical.
hhh
hhh
$\int_0^1\int_{3y}^{3} ...dx dy = \int_{3y}^{3}\int_0^1 ... dy dx$?!
nope. there can be no instance of y outside of the integral ending in dy.
04:15
I finally fixed up the random walk problem I was working on.
first off, draw the region of integration, which is $0<y<1 ~\wedge~ 3y<x<3$.
Something like $y\int_0^1 y dy$ doesn't make any sense. The $y$ exists within the integral, it cannot exist outside of it.
In any way.
So $\int_{3y}^y \int_0^1\bullet dy dx$ is similarly out of bounds.
I wish this answer by @robjohn wins a Necromancer badge!
@RajeshD it need a few more votes for that.
@anon scoping
yes I know....just bringing up a long back question so that people could notice it, I hope there is nothing wrong in doing so
@robjohn Okay, in the same equation.
04:20
@RajeshD no, nothing wrong. I just don't know if it will get much attention, being so old.
@robjohn It is getting. I've seen two very recent upvotes to the other answer!
@anon No, I was agreeing that the scope of $y$ was in the integral. The $y$ outside the integral is not a dummy variable, unlike the one inside the integral.
oh, yeah. wasn't sure.
I figured out something potentially of interest about MSE. If you click the star to favorite a question, then follow a link, then backspace, the star will be open for clicking again. If you do click it, it will tell you it favorited again. However if you refresh it turns out you unfavorited it.
@anon post on meta?
think it's worth it? might be..
04:29
@anon It's worth collecting in a bug list :-)
hm, okay.
I'll check it on IE and FF first.
@anon good idea, oh Lord!
@robjohn : The motivation for that question (jump discontinuities for $f:\mathbb{R}^2\to\mathbb{R}$) is that I want to generalize this class of functions to functions of the form $f:\mathbb{R}^2\to\mathbb{R}$....I want to move in that direction!
@robjohn: The bug doesn't appear on FF; when you backspace it reloaded the page with the star yellow'd. I think it has something to do with cacheing settings (in addition to the SE system not knowing the difference between starring and unstarring from the browser alone.)
Same with IE. It's all about the browser settings.
Bwahaha.
Bill did actually say "Aw Snap!," even if he was only quoting the error.
@anon :-)
04:43
@robjohn : i have a question relating to the size of jump for functions $f:\mathbb{R}^2 \to \mathbb{R}$
leo
leo
@anon wlog suppose that $t_0\gt 0$. Suppose that $x^2-t^2\lt 0$. Then $x$ is decreasing when $x$ is negative, but why is the case that $x(t)\lt 0$ for $t\gt t_0$?
@anon indeed.
@robjohn : are you busy ?
@leo: Suppose we make a diagram with an x- and t-axis. At each point we will put an arrow pointing either upwards or downwards depending on whether $x(x^2-t^2)$ is positive or negative. This is an intuitive picture of why $|x|<|t|$ has to hold true given $|x_0|<|t_0|$. Now we have to translate it into a proof...
04:54
@RajeshD what's up?
@robjohn I have a question, could i ask ?
leo
leo
@anon thanks. I'll try. The next exercise is like this one but with $x'=txf(t,x)$ $f$ continuous and non-negative and some other things... Thanks by your help
yeah, sorry. I haven't thought about qualitative diff equ for a few years
05:03
for a function $f:\mathbb{R}^2 \to \mathbb{R}$ having a jump discontinuity like the one we have discussed earlier, at a point $P$, the size of the jump at $P$ is given as $fJ_P : [0,pi) \to \mathbb{R}$, which means the size of a jump at a point is a function.
...Now my question is "Are there any restrictions on the behaviour of the function $fJ_P$, meaning should it always be smooth or differentiable or continuous are can it be nowhere continuous and stuff like that because we need $f$ to be smooth everywhere except at $P$. @robjohn
leo
leo
btw, we can construct functions $f,g$ defined on a bounded interval $I$ so that $f\leq g$ but $f'(t)\gt g'(t)$ for some $t\in I$. Is there an example with a behaviour like this but over all $\mathbb R$?
The jump discontinuity discussed earlier was this
@leo: Yes. Suppose $g$ is $0$ identically and let $f$ be $-e^{-x}$.
leo
leo
@anon yes, thanks :-)
@anon your analysis seems ok, can i ask you for some help understanding some things Jonas was telling me earlier?
05:12
I probably won't be of use (I think I'm below you in most aspects), but go ahead
this states the problem i was working on
leo
leo
It was to point that in this:
http://math.stackexchange.com/q/85943/8271
i talked and it all made sense at the time, but i tried to work it out and we didn't seem to have actually accomplished anything.
nope, I'm not your man.
ok, np anon
i'm probably just being dense as usual
leo
leo
05:20
@robjohn, you are from analysis, I guess
@anon, in what field of math are you working on? or what like you most?
I want to study number theory.
leo
leo
How you decide it?
Based on (a) being moderately proficient at an elementary level and (b) being really interested in the higher levels.
@leo : thats a million dollar question !
lol
leo
leo
05:24
:-)
Just want to confirm something. If $K/F$ is algebraic, and $S \subset K$ is finite, then $F[S]=F(S)$.
leo
leo
@anon Number theory is really nice. Simple statements, too hard proofs. I don't have read much about it, just simple stuff, but I hope take a course on it the next semester or the next year
@Isaac: I think so, yes.
Thanks, anon.
Btw, I'm a big fan of your work.
05:30
Show that F[S] is a field and so has to = the RHS.
Thanks. :-)
Yeah, it's not a homework problem, rather a statement I am using a slightly harder problem. I was just reviewing my solution, and it struck me as strange, just like when you repeat the word "golf" to yourself too many times.
*I am using in a proof for a slightly harder problem
Evening. :)
05:59
OK. That was killed!
You voted before I even did. Did you have a link to the dup before me? :O
 
1 hour later…
07:31
@anon Yes, I did! :-)
Later folks.
07:57
Looks as if this one is asking for a badger.
@MattN you?
@Ilya No! Click the link. Also take a look at the revision history. : ) I don't understand the thing so I won't upvote.
@Ilya I fixed up the random walk answer.
@MattN that was a joke :)
@robjohn there is a comment by joriki who seems to have some doubts
@Ilya hmm.. lemme look
08:05
@robjohn sorry, I am currently a bit busy - have to submit the proposal for a Master student
now I think I should pay more attention, but please give me some time
@Ilya Oh, don't feel any need to look. I think I need to work some more on the n-dimensional case. I was doing the last part while on my walk this evening. Joriki brings up something that I was worrying about, but forgot about when I was out.
I was thinking of applying the approach we're using here - but it would be like using a canon you know for what
Hi @robjohn @Ilya
@Kan: hi
08:26
$\emptyset$ x (anything) = $\emptyset$ right?
How is $\times$ defined?
(Is it the usual Cartesian product of sets?)
it's like relation
something1 x something2=(something1, something2)
yes cartesian product
So, yes, then, you're right!
Hi @Zhen
08:44
@KannappanSampath hey there :-) I was removing part of an answer for more work.
09:20
@MattN looks like it, eh? :) Seriously: it was upvoted during the night and I had a look and found the "point you to ... pointers to ..."-sentence distinctly awkward.
@tb: hi, could you help me to resolve a confusion about $F_\delta$ sets?
Hi Ilya
sure. What's up?
reading a book where such notation is used. They define for a class $\mathcal P$ of sets $\mathcal P_\delta$ to be the class of sets obtained from $\mathcal P$ by taking countable intersections
yes, that's the usual definition.
now everything is clear :) there was $F_\sigma$ instead of $F_\delta$. No confusion then
09:24
Well, $F_\delta$-sets aren't particularly interesting, are they? :)
aha :)
@tb hey there :-)
hey, robjohn
@tb: you know, I feel better with minimal-sort-of-definition of $\sigma(\mathcal P)$ than with $\mathcal P_\sigma$ having doubts if the latter is formal :)
I'm not a constructive man, I guess
The latter is formal enough, I think: they are very useful and the minimal number of $\sigma$'s and $\delta$'s you need to add gives a good indication of "how complicated" a set is.
09:27
Teddy!!! Yay! : )
Hey, Matt :)
@tb Of course.... : )
(Even though I think there are too many people answering questions and not enough asking.)
I suppose you'll be off any second, so: have a nice day.
Answerers don't want to reveal how normal they are :-)
@MattN very good, I'm proud of you :)
09:32
@anon there's probably more truth to that than one might imagine... However, the reflex: "I want to figure this out on my own" (for whatever reason) is probably a healthy one.
@anon What does it mean? Can you elaborate, I can't figure it out on my own fast enough.
Are you being figurative or literal?
Both.
head asplode
: D
But seriously: I don't understand what you're saying up there^
09:37
Oh. Asking a question $\implies$ can 't figure it out on your own $\implies$ normal person.
Oh! That would've never occurred to me.
I guess unlike me or tb you're pure of heart.
Probably this means I'm very weak and very unaware of it. Not that I care : )
@anon : )
@anon The first arrow should be an and, no?
I saw that. I hereby revoke your pureness of heart.
Sure, go ahead : )
09:39
No, it's an $\implies$.
Ah, right, can read it both ways.
@tb Will you leave soon today too?
In about ten minutes, I guess.
What's up?
09:43
No, I wanted to know something about the characteristic polynomials.
Then shoot!
Let $T$ be a nilpotent operator on $V$ with index $k$ less than the dimension of $V$.
(I use index as in: $T^k \equiv 0$ but $T^{k-1} \not\equiv 0$)
Are you asking about the characteristic polynomial or the minimal polynomial?
bbl
(@Teddy: nice to see you, I missed you *so* much!)
@MattN have a nice day, missed you, too...
09:46
@tb Characteristic polynomials.
The characteristic polynomial of a nilpotent operator is $\lambda^n$ where $n$ is the dimension.
Anyway, the characteristic polynomial is going to tell me $t^n =0$.
@tb Yes, right. But, I want to make some other observation...
So, the Jordan form of $T$ will have $k+1$ blocks, right?
No, it could have only two, e.g. one $k \times k$ block and one $2 \times 2$ block.
So, $n=k+2$?
yes.
09:51
So, OK. I'll ask it as a question: How many linearly independent eigen vectors will be there for $T$?
At least two and at most $n-k$.
How do you come to know of that? I cannot see this thing at all!
Well, since $T^{k-1} \neq 0$ there is $v$ such that $T^{k-1}v \neq 0$. Then $v, Tv,\ldots,T^{k-1}v$ are linearly independent but only one of them is an eigenvector, namely $T^{k-1}v$.
(and the subspace spanned by $v,\dots,T^{k-2}v$ does not contain an eigenvector).
Yes, so, we can extend this to basis for $V$ such that atleast one more vector is an Eigen vector. Is this right?
@tb Sorry, the ping.
Yes.
10:02
Where should I read about this to learn more about Jordan forms and Linear Algebra in general?
Okay, I have to go now.
</3
@tb Later Teddy. Thank you.
I can't recommend anything since I never learned linear algebra from a book. But see here
Bye!
@tb Third time you showed me this. But, I would like to rephrase my question: How did you learn linear algebra then? (I think, I am not at ease with this as I am with when thinking about groups or metric spaces or some such thing.)
Hi @Ben
Personally, I don't think Jordan normal forms are particularly important to linear algebra for the purposes of pure mathematics...
10:08
Who contributes to wikipedia?
@ZhenLin Do you think after say learning about primary decomposition in AC jordan forms will come easier?
@KannappanSampath hi
@KannappanSampath I had a basic course which covered enough of the fundamentals for me to figure out whatever else I needed. I only really understood what's going on when learning functional analysis.
I did a little on WP a very long time ago.
Do we need primary decomposition for JNF? I don't think so. I saw two proofs in two second-year courses, both of which I've now forgotten.
@ZhenLin I decidedly disagree. How do you solve ODE's then? This alone is important enough to justify one month of suffering in every basic linear algebra course.
10:10
@ZhenLin Probably not. But perhaps a higher level of looking at things may give a broader perspective
@tb I haven't to solve ODEs in a while either! :p
@ZhenLin True. But, there is a lot of thing I'm unable to reason out concerning these things. I would like to learn linear algebra well.
@KannappanSampath If you know about localisation there is an interpretation of why the nilradical is the intersection of all prime ideals
Okay, I really need to go now. Bye all!
I solved them with the Putzer Algorithm in my DE course. (guess who wrote the PW entry... :P)
10:11
bye!
@tb We are now doing some ODEs stuff in analysis. So dry and the lecturer replaces partial derivatives with $f'$ everywhere, so confusing!
@anon You!
@anon I'd like to write an article for wikipedia, is it pain?
(I have all the relevant material already typed up in TeX.)
If it needs to have any length and you don't have anything to copy out of it is.
10:13
There is an interpretation of the nilradical in terms of localisation
which I think is quite nice
@BenjaminLim So, we shall discuss that in CA room?
well
you need to know some facts about localisation
and it's probably too long to say all of it
I was just giving you a head's up
since you mentioned about this krull's theorem stuff
Will read it then, later. OK?
@anon I have a .txt file I wrote for this business.
10:15
Here's one weak form of JNF I saw a couple weeks ago: let $T$ be a non-invertible endomorphism of a finite-dimensional vector space $V$. Then there are subspaces $U$ and $W$ such that $V = U \oplus W$, $T$ acts nilpotently on $U$, and $T$ acts as an automorphism of $W$.
Proof is probably quite easy too.
I think we can look at Ker and Im chains.
Indeed.
@KannappanSampath If you already wrote most of what you need it shouldn't be too terrible.
@ZhenLin I am guessing the subspace $U$ is the eigenspace corresponding to eigenvalue 0?
They should stabilize because of the finite dimensionality of spaces.
10:16
@BenjaminLim: No. It's the "generalised" eigenspace.
ah ok
sorry yes
That looks like N(T) and R(T) in here.
for $T$ to be nilpotent on $U$ it needs to be the generalised eigenspace
And, it is easy to see that: $V=\ker T^i \oplus \operatorname{im}T^i$ where $i$ is the point it stabilises at!
@anon Right, I think.
@anon So, how do I start?
Ok guys
I'm off now!
10:19
Later Benjie
See you later @Ben.
Not sure, I never actually started an article on WP.
Depending on length you need to section it (I don't remember if the ToC comes automatically)
And all relevant links have to be WPized
Didier just posted an answer to the random walk problem robjohn was working on.
But, most of the relevant definitions, (I have them written up), but WP does not have them.
Okay, why don't you at least say what it is you're going to submit, in a nutshell?
Something in abstract/commutative/linear algebra?
10:23
It's a theorem in combinatorics.
Cameron's Theorem -- that talks about extendability of symmetric 2 designs.
Interesting. So it relies on a lot of definitions that aren't found on WP?
Yes. Not many, but atleast 5 or 6 I can think of.
I imagine what you should do is put all of the needed definitions in the article as a prerequisite section, create red links associated to them so that hardcore wikipedians will fill up more articles and strengthen it
@anon Oh, nice.
that's generally how these things begin
10:26
I will for now keep that on my blog.
The connection here sucks!
I just cannot do anything. It takes eternity to load.
user19161
@KannappanSampath Load which site? Some are slow.
@JasperLoy This chat window; M.Se
(BTW, Hello! Long time no see.)
user19161
@KannappanSampath How is your ear?
@JasperLoy It is still the same; I can hear though. It pains less.
user19161
@KannappanSampath Wow, not many people use semicolons in a chat room. Plus one!
10:31
Huh? I use them when I find it appropriate, I think.
10:53
I love Colbert.
11:22
So tired, too many tabs open...
@anon Sorry, I was trying to put in that link for you and you're already tired. Sorry man.
lol
lol for the page I linked you to?
lol for the juxtaposition of our comments
anyway, first thing that jumped out was English. "get away without" doesn't work, you'd have to say "get away with not"
Oh, this is precisely why I want someone to read. Thank you, will fix that. :-)
11:26
anyway, I'll take a look at the math
goddamn I say "anyway" too much. always when I don't feel like thinking about what I type.
@anon No, I don't feel that. But, this is one of those instances you did not want to type anything?
I say "anyway" to segue into a topic slightly different from what I just said previously. It's poor form to use the same form of segue, though - like saying "anyway" over and over again - but I do it when I don't feel like expending the mental energy to look for a different word from last time.
@anon Please leave some comments for me on that. (both on the page and the write up; esp. if you feel something could be improved.)
Eh. I'm going to finish some pudding and read a funny picture site and go to bed. I'll look into it in the morning.
Or, afternoon, technically. Whatever year I wake up in.
:-) Sure, but looking forward to hearing from you.
11:44
@ZhenLin Funny that you said that... Jordan decompositions, being rather messy to compute numerically, aren't terribly useful in the applied setting either.
Indeed.
As far as I know, the main point of JNF is to establish a complete classification of the conjugacy classes of matrices.
Although I suppose some things might be easier to prove in JNF... shrug
Well, they do show the defectiveness of a matrix quite clearly...
By defective, I remember you mean that there are less linearly independent eigen vectors (geometric multiplicity) than the algebraic multiplicity, am I right? @JM
@KannappanSampath Yes, you're right.
(Though I like the formulation "has nonscalar Jordan blocks" myself...)
Now what is a non-scalar Jordan block?
11:52
@KannappanSampath Remember that in a Jordan decomposition, your matrix is similar to a certain block-diagonal matrix.
@JM Yes, very special kind of block diagonal matrix...
The diagonal elements could be scalars, or Jordan blocks. If the block diagonal matrix is actually diagonal, you have the diagonalizable case. If you have actual Jordan blocks present, then you have a defective/nondiagonalizable matrix...
Oh, so I call scalars, jordan blocks of size 1.
So, you see something like $\begin{pmatrix}\lambda&1\\&\lambda\end{pmatrix}$, or bigger versions of it, that's your nonscalar block...
And, scalar jordan blocks are diagonal matrices, right?
11:57
@KannappanSampath Maybe you mean "if all the blocks are scalar, then the block diagonal matrix is a diagonal matrix". :)
Scalars are just numbers (or I suppose $1\times 1$ matrices).
Yes, I meant that for sure. :-)
(But I should thank you for correcting me.)
Segue: why does that sum of odd numbers question have a thousand views already? :o
12:13
@JM: how are you?
12:34
Is this not a duplicate?
@Ilya Sorry for the late reply... I'm okay-ish.
@HenningMakholm Hi, how are you?
Executed.
Is the linked question not a dupe?
12:48
@KannappanSampath I have a feeling it is, but I can't find the earlier version...
Me too. It was answered by pete l clark among many others.
@JM: here?
@Ilya how may I serve?
I have a question about complete metric spaces
@Ilya Sounds like t.b.'s specialty, not mine...
12:53
ok, I'll try to catch him later
What about complete metric spaces? (I can try too, but not that I can answer!) @Ilya
I think so...
@tb: whenever you're here, just wanted to clarify. Any $G_\delta$ subset of a Hilbert cube is top. complete. So, that means that although $(0,1)$ is not a complete space under the usual metric, we just need to treat it as a metrizable space rather than a metric space - so we can choose a consistent metric (different from the usual one) which makes $(0,1)$ complete, right?
I used $(0,1)$ for the sake of simplicity, but I guess that to be formal I have to take a cylinder $(0,1)\times \prod_{k=1}^\infty[ 0,1]$
@Kan: I've just written a question, so if you have any ideas - please tell me.
@KannappanSampath Looks good. I've opened voting.
I cannot even parse it. :-) @Ilya (I should not have asked!)
@HenningMakholm Thank you and I have cast mine too.

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