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18:00
Now my question what should have triggered me to do this instead?

$\frac{2+8}{-2} =x $
as far as I can see I didn't really do make a mistake in my initial approach
yet the result is totally incorrect
Could someone tell me what basic rule of maths I forgot?
Yes, I know this is very basic!
@LandonZeKepitelOfGreytBritn When you divided by $2$, you forgot to also divide the $8$ by $2$
@LandonZeKepitelOfGreytBritn In the first step you have to divide both sides of the equation by 2. You only divided 2x by 2 and not the -8
@TobiasKildetoft Hmm yes that s another way of looking at it
stupid me
@Semiclassical hello
hi @semi.
18:04
Howdy
anyone had to fumble around with doing Fourier transforms in Mathematica?
Anyone know what the situation ont he gorund in Catalonia is at the moment?
I feel like there has to be a nicer way of doing it
@Semiclassical only in matlab
18:05
I've done it some
Still dissatisfied with the built in functions?
yeah. some context:
Suppose have a quantum-mechanical wavefunction in position space $\psi(x)$. I want to Fourier transform this to momentum space.
I'm just interested in playing around with various $\psi(x)$, so I'll take it as being known symbolically. I can then in principal have MMA do this either using the usual Integrate command or using FourierTransform.
ok well I don't see what I am missing. Either there is a mistake in the book I found online either I am starting to become tired
...however, this seems like overkill. I really don't care about the Fourier transform $\tilde{\psi}(k)$ is symbolic, so I should just do it numerically.
Could someone show me how to get to equation 3-12?
So the most obvious change would be to use NIntegrate or NFourierTransform
buuuut these seem also to be far slower than I want
18:09
it is very straightforward, but I don't get there
which is bloody annoying
finally, there's the Fourier command to do DFT on a sampled data set
@TobiasKildetoft Do we verify that $2^{6} \neq 1 \mod{13}$ and $2^{2} \neq 1 \mod{13}$ and so we deduce that 2 is a generator of $\mathbb{Z}_{13}^{\star}$ ?
@Evinda No, that does not suffice (the second one follows from the first one)
that seems like it should be the best option, but the connection between DFT and (an approximation of) the usual Fourier transform is not entirely obvious
so i am confuzed
@LandonZeKepitelOfGreytBritn starting from where?
@Semiclassical 3-11 I think
I am just reading the book, so I don't have much more info than what is on those images
18:11
Oh I meant to check the powers $2^6$ and $2^4$ @TobiasKildetoft
@Evinda That will work, yes
well, let's work backwards a bit. Omitting (s) for convenience, you've got Y/R = G/(1+G H) as your last result
@Semiclassical How about writing a very simple program to do the integral numerically if all you're going to be doing is 1D integrals you can do that very quickly. And you wont have to bother with all the weird cases NFourierTransform is trying to take care of and check against
@Semiclassical yes...
18:12
In general if the order of the group will be $n=p_1^{q_1} \cdots p_2{q_r}$ we will look at the values $g^{\frac{n}{p_i}}$ for $i=1, \dots, r$, right? @TobiasKildetoft
so that rearranges to Y +YGH = RG
by comparison, they've got Y=RG-GH in equation 3-11
which is equivalent to Y+GH = RG. huh.
@Semiclassical lol...
I might be too tired
thx
@Evinda Yes
well, it's not just tiredness I think
Nice, thank you :) @TobiasKildetoft
18:14
To simplify computations, we can use that $-1$ is the unique element of order $2$ mod a prime, which means we can calculate some smaller powers
to get their result it seems like they'd need Y = RG-YGH not Y=RG-GH in equation 3-11
so something seems off
oh, I see it
they've got an error in their calculation
in equation 3-10, they've got U = R-B. they then plug this into eq. 3-8, Y=GU, and get Y=GR-GH.
but it should be Y=GR-GB !
once you account for that, plugging in equation 3-9 to this result gives Y = GR-GHY which you can rearrange to get Y/R = G/(1+GH) as expected
@LandonZeKepitelOfGreytBritn to sum up these remarks: their equation 3-11 has a typo. the H should be B.
@Semiclassical yep looking at it...
i also think the sentence after 3-11 should be "Substituting Eq. (3-9) into Eq. (3-11)" not "into Eq. (3-7)"
the latter really makes no sense
@KevinDriscoll yeah
@Semiclassical looks like I downloaded a great book...
it s only chapter 3 and already has multiple mistakes
@KevinDriscoll I suspect the real 'best way' is to figure out how DFT relates to the Fourier transform, since the former takes advantage of the efficiency of FFT
@LandonZeKepitelOfGreytBritn ew
i guess it teaches you to be critical about what the text says
18:24
> It is true, however, that a countable union of countable sets need not be comparable with ℵ1 without choice. In fact, we can have a non-well-orderable set that can be written as a countable union of sets of size 2.
mission acomplished
@Semiclassical I don't think one should buy/download an engineering book in order to call into question everything which is stated in it. It's only chapter 3, imagine what type of errors I might encounter once I reach eg chapter 17...
yeah, true enough
i mean, one always has to be a bit critical/paranoid about such things. but these seem like really obvious errors.
> Interestingly enough, Dedekind-finiteness can be graded into various level of finiteness, so some sets are more finite than others. For example, it is possible for a Dedekind-finite set to be mapped onto N, which in some way makes it "less finite" than sets which cannot be mapped onto N.
More exciting weirdness
@Semiclassical unless I am confounding you with another regular user from this SE, didn't you use to teach for a while?
@Semiclassical I don't know a lot about DFT, but I am kinda dubious about it. The local density approximation is not systematically-improvable. It works, but it takes a lot fo outside work to put into it to get something reasonable.
18:29
if yes, are mistakes like those common in textbooks?
i've been a teaching assistant a few times
never taught an actual course
@Semiclassical It is way more work than one might expect :)
ugh
but in any case that seems just too broad a question to have a simple answer
@Semiclassical I don't see how you ll change the minus sign (-GHY) to a plus sign
you move it to the other side.
Y=GR-GHY means Y+GHY=GR
@KevinDriscoll DFT = discrete Fourier transform, not density-functional theory :)
18:32
$Y = GR - GHY$

$\frac{Y}{R} = G(R-HY)$

$?$
that's nonsense.
You forgot to divide both things by $R$
Nope still not right
at best, you should have $\frac{Y}{R}=\frac{G}{R}(R-HY)$.
but this really doesn't help you.
you're making complicated something which is not.
If $Y=GR-GHY$, then $Y+GHY=GR$.
what I intiall had was this:

$\frac{Y}{R} = G(1-HY)$ I don't wee why that's nonsense at least now one part is correct... ie the fraction but the other side of the equations is far from being what is needed
it's still nonsense.
you have $Y=GR-GHY$. So $\frac{Y}{R}=\frac{GR-GHY}{R}=G-GH\frac{Y}{R}=G(1-H\frac{Y}{R})$.
18:38
@Semiclassical I understand what you are doing
holy shit i got serial upvoted to +200
but what I did was just bring the 'R' to the other side, nothing more
holey shite
you are dividing both sides by R for some reason
What do you meant bring the R to the other sdie?
18:39
there is no rule of algebra that allows you to conclude that Y=G(R-HY) implies Y/R = G(1-HY).
@KevinDriscoll bring 'R' from the right side to the left side
this is simply false.
@Semiclassical oh ok
Yea but what rule of algebra are you using ot do that?
covers eyes
What have you done this time, @Balarka?
18:40
Uh er nothing! fidgets and hides something behind the back
Clearly Balarka is involved in a conspiracy to farm karma and has to be banned. Sorry Balarak :-(
or my name isnt Joseph McCarthy!
I see what you did there.
@KevinDriscoll Wrong on every account. I farm memes, not karma
Serial upvoting on various questions, @Balarka?
and if anything memes would accumulate negative karma
18:41
Why would one farm memes except to seize the means of memeduction and thus control th flow of karma?
unless you mean internet karma, in which case
@Semiclassical Depends on the meme
Damn, Kevin's been sucked into the Demonark/Balarka vortex
@KevinDriscoll You mean seize the memes of memeduction?
Yes, of course
@TedShifrin Someone did that to me
@Semiclassical I mean, isn't the whole concept of karma part of one of the earliest memes?
18:42
I usually get serial downvotes, but it hasn't happened in a while.
true enough
You know who ...
The Coneheads!
meme life matters
18:43
We're from Remulak.
Hi everyone
@TedShifrin Ah yes I remember the archenemy of the Geometric Approach franchise
I'm too young for that joke :/
I'd like a show of hands on who knows who the coneheads are.
(coneheads were on SNL in the 80s?)
18:43
that had nothing to do with it, @Balarka.
If its more than me and ted Id be surpprised
Yes, Semiclassic.
I'm aware of them, but the reference doesn't have any resonance for me.
@Semiclassical SNL? I thought it was just that one movie
@TedShifrin I was responding to your serial downvote message :)
18:44
I think the movie came after.
"You know who..."
but I also thought it was a TV show not a movie.
I loved SNL back in the day. Somehow I don't watch any more, although with Alec Baldwin I should.
@Balarka: Yes, I know.
@KevinDriscoll where online do you suggest me to go to check those "official" rules?
Oh, so it wasn't R.S.?
18:45
His personal animus toward me had nothing to do with "geometric approach." It had to do with his mental state and the fact that I corrected errors he made in answers on main, and that infuriated him.
Yes, it was, Balarka.
@LandonZeKepitelOfGreytBritn Ummm Khan Academy has a whole series of videos and practice problems on the basics of algebra that I think are pretty OK
That was humor on my part
And thats probably better than trying to read a book
I’ll watch the opener and Weekend Update but that’s about it
18:46
You're the one who resents the "geometric approach," Balarka :P
Classic SNL is great, though
Lots of things that started on SNL got movies. Coneheads. Chevy Chase. Night at the Roxbury.
I loved the classics with Jane Curtin and Dan Akroyd, Semiclassic.
“Jane you ignorant ****.”
Hmm, could LandonZeK........... have any longer a name?
18:47
Pretty offensive but utterly hilarious
Of course, I still remember Ruth Buzzi hitting Arte Johnson with her purse on Rowan and Martin's Laugh In, @Semiclassic. I'm old.
Evidently Landon thinks England is his city
Now Laugh In..... there's a name I have not heard in a long long time. Never seen the show.
You should watch some on YouTube, Kevin. It was pretty good!
Phil Hartman was great
18:48
But now you must be doing diff top!
Not today! Turned in homework yesterday. Today I am working on a draft of a paper so my advisor doesn't fire me.
@TedShifrin Speaking of which, you might enjoy the conversation in response to this question.
Mainly my response and Mike's response below
Ugh, now I’m remembering what happened to Phil Hartman and that bums me out
@BalarkaSen I would have responded the same way tbh
18:50
My response was Mike's when you made me read the question.
Yes, I'm a total dope
No, not total.
BTW, @Balarka, this question should remind you of our discussions in here. I'm still not sure what the question means. And I'm not sure Moishe Cohen is right, either.
0
Q: Transpose of an Ideal in a Matrix Ring

user193319I just recently proved that if $J \subseteq M_n(R)$ is a left ideal, where $R$ is some ring, then $J^T := \{A^T \mid A \in J \}$ is a right ideal, and vice-versa. This got me wondering: is there some necessary and sufficient conditions involving a nonempty subset $J$ being an ideal and $J^T = J$,...

@TedShifrin Totally geodesic submanifolds are determined by their tangent subspaces at a point, I believe
So I don't seem to think Moishe is incorrect
It bothered me because it's not a necessary condition.
But I still don't see how the isometric to $\Bbb R^k$ is coming in to this ....
I don't think your remark is right, @Balarka, unless we assume completeness ...
I had never thought about that.
18:57
Oh yes I guess even if I am correct I just end up arriving at $S$ being diffeomorphic to $\Bbb R^k$. Don't really see how isometry comes in the play
@TedShifrin I am assuming completeness. Hmm, let me think if I am correct.
Holy shit, past me was a genius. I had forgotten that I did it, but past me left present me a to-do list of things that need to be finished in this paper.
This may be the nicest thing past-me has ever done specifically for present-me
And the senility begins ...
I'm much more worried about Schizophrenia at 27. My grandfather started manifesting in his mid-late 20s
Yikes.
Is that hereditary?
19:00
It is, sort of
I have schizophrenia in my family too
Alzheimers, for example, we feel is hereditary in some intuitive way, but there's no proof yet that I've seen.
Ya its not completely hereditary; has a fundamentally environmental component as well.
I think it's been settled to be hereditary/genetic
Which it are we talking about now?
But children on 1 schizophrenic have a risk 10x+ of the general population. Grandchildren is like 3-4x.
19:02
Interesting. I didn't know that.
I was talking about schizophrenia
Inheritance of mental illness in general is such a tricky thing
I'll be back later. Balarka, if you have ideas re that question, I'm interested.
That is true
@TedShifrin Alright, see ya
For example, my aunt did not develop symptoms at the usual time. But well into her 30s has a psychotic break due to extreme emotional and physical trauma. It took both.
19:05
Same for those of the family members of mine who has suffered from it
Well, mostly emotional trauma that triggered it but yeah
It's a scary condition
Plus there remains a lot of stigma around it
Unsurprisingly, yes
20:00
Hey everyone
How's it going?
Just done with a crap load of physics
20:16
Nice
What's up on your end
Most likely the sky but other than that?
Hi chat
Gonna go to some of these talks over the next few days that are basically about Benson's work
Hey @Eric
So that's nifty
20:20
Cool
Eyy Eric
Oh shit when does no boundaries start
I forgot abt that
There are talks today
Do you have a link to the schedule
20:23
Hehe, looks like full of cool topology
Definitely going to some of the talks tmr
Geometric group theory is the shit
I wonder what ellenbergs talk is gonna be
Maybe I should head to campus
Yeah Peter May very much recommended Ellenberg
He's got a rep for being A good speaker
20:31
would have bn cool if smn uploaded sm vids or shit for the cnfrns
yes, speaking in weirdly cropped up spellings is my way to show that im hopping something happens
Them grammerful tho
MSE is pretty well represented on that speaker list.
0
Q: Transpose of an Ideal in a Matrix Ring

user193319I just recently proved that if $J \subseteq M_n(R)$ is a left ideal, where $R$ is some ring, then $J^T := \{A^T \mid A \in J \}$ is a right ideal, and vice-versa. This got me wondering: is there some necessary and sufficient conditions involving a nonempty subset $J$ being an ideal and $J^T = J$,...

@PVAL oh huh, nifty
20:39
I recognize Lee Mosher, Andy Putman, etc from MSE I think
90% of them is in MO but that doesn't count
Amie Wilkinson, Benson 'n' Dynamics 'n' Me
I imagine that will be entertaining.
sounds like gossip material lmao
@Balarka just saw someone enter one of the lecture rooms w a camera
Idk If it counts as gossip if they're a married couple
Benson has "Amie" tattooed full display on his arm
@EricSilva Hey, that's pretty good
I guess the question is when this gets uploaded lol
I gave a "lightning talk" last year at the Winter GT conference.
It was fun.
20:46
What's the difference between a lightning talk and a standard talk
They're 5 min long beamer (tex version of powerpoint) talks.
5 minutes? damn
I guess that makes sense
21:02
Hmm
The set of real quantities with addition and multiplication wouldn't form a ring due to addition not always being defined, correct?
21:13
Simple question about notation. "Open interval $I\subset [1,\infty)$ does that mean 1 is included or not?
21:25
@ColdHeartOfStone included
Am I right in thinking that prime ideals cannot contain units?
@user193319 An ideal contains a unit iff it is the whole ring
@AlessandroCodenotti which is I figured that it couldn't contain a unit. Thanks!
22:18
@Balarka ngl ellenberg's talk was dope
what was it about
Benson's work
like general overview of it across his career
22:33
ah
So, here’s a riddle / problem for this week (stolen from 538.com)
“You, a very wealthy aristocrat, own 25 horses. You’re bored one day (you’re bored everyday) and decide to amuse yourself by identifying the three fastest horses in your stable.However, your personal racetrack is severely lacking in capacity, and you can only race five horses at a time. What is the minimum number of races you’ll need to organize to identify your three fastest horses?”
(Source above should have been FiveThirtyEight.com)
23:03
@Semiclassical Well that's easy. 6, if you have a video camera that can record or 4 friends and 5 stopwatches
err 5 I meant
It's impossible because a horse race is a probabilistic event where the slower horse has a nonzero chance of winning.
Now that can't be right. We live in a deterministic universe. So if you just know the initial state f the universe, then the answer is 0 races. You can just derive which hours is the fastest form basic physical laws.
23:21
What bothers me is that it asks for the minimum number of races, not the maximum
7
there is no maximum, race the same 5 horses over and over, keep going until you run out of money and have to auction the horses the money, squat in your own home as the bank takes it away from you
Well they want the minimum number that allows you to ge the correct order in the wrost case scenario
do you want my solution semi?
But the worst-case scenario would be more races rather than fewer
Thats right. So that want an algorithm that gets the right answer every time and they want to know what is the minimum number of scheduled races that that algorithm must run
23:27
Something still seems off
Basically they're asking you for the runtime of your algorithm in the worst case
Ber
Ber
Hello, does b^n - b^n - b^n = -3b^n ? If so why does this wolfram alpha page not compute to it? wolframalpha.com/input/?i=b%5En+-+b%5En+-+b%5En
$\b^n - b^n - b^n = -3b^n$
Not quite. @ber x - x - x = (x - x) - x = -x
23:45
@Ber it's - b^n - b^n - b^n that is equal to -3b^n
@Semiclassical I don't see why minimum is a problem. It would make sense, clearly you have some dumb upper bound, which is to choose 5 horses, race them, then take the winner of that, race them, etc
Ber
Ber
Thanks Kevin, Nun, i see why now.
@Daminark I take @Semiclassical 's objection to be that the minimum number of races required to determine the 3 fastest is not well defined, by itself. Because if for the first race you pick 5 horses randomly, you can get lucky and put all 3 fastest in that race. Then you take the horse who finished 3rd and run it in 5 more races, it wins every time. That's 6 races and you're done
But obviously that only works if you get lucky to start out with
I think you need a fool proof method for every time, but i see the objection

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