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12:00
Yes.
The radical of (0)
Ah.
You know how $G/0$ in abelian group theory looks weird? $A/\sqrt{\langle0\rangle}$ also looks pretty screwy, I gotta say
lolol
Fun fact: Nilradical of a ring is intersection of all the prime ideals
Right?
They form a prime ideal themselves, right?
So we just need to show they're contained in every prime ideal, to prove that
12:06
No, the nilradical need not be prime
Oh, hm, right
$\Bbb Z_6$ would be a counterexample (nilradical is $\{0\}$ which is not prime because it doesn't contain $2$ or $3$ despite the fact that $2\times3=0$)
So, clearly nilpotents are contained in prime ideals 'cause $a^n=0\in P\implies a\in P$.
The zero ideal is assumed to be prime in general.
@BalarkaSen That would contradict your theorem
The nilradicals can't be the intersection of all prime ideals if one of those prime ideals is $\{0\}$
I meant all nonzero prime ideals, I guess.
But that (0) is prime is a pretty generic convention. It's not a good example of a non-prime. I am trying to think of a better counterexample though
I was thinking of k[x, y]/((xy)^2)
Isn't the nilradical (xy)?
$\Bbb Z_{36}$, perhaps? Nilradical is $\langle6\rangle$, I think
which isn't prime 'cause it contains neither $2$ nor $3$
Your example seems more-or-less equivalent
12:15
That works, I think
Ya
I read a very hard Number theory problem today.
Got to go, but I'll think about the other half of the problem
(We have that the intersection contains the nilradical, now we need that the nilradical contains the intersection)
See ya. It's the other containment that's complicated, yes (I think it involves a Zorn argument)
Oh. Ew. I'll restrict myself to finite rings maybe
(I don't really remember how Zorn works anyway)
If a poset has upper bound for every totally ordered subset, it has a maximal element IIRC
12:18
Hello. Suppose $R\to S$ is a ring homomorphism. When is there a factorization $R\to \mathrm{End}(A)\to S$ through the endomorphism ring of some abelian group?
Something something Morita equivalence
user84215
Hello.
[Random]
Example of a set that is finite but contain countably infinite subsets:
$S = \{\{\Bbb{N}\},\{0,1\},\{\omega\}\}$
Any set works
"...finite..."
uh, querying the subset of $S$ should only return 3 elements
Or maybe, I forgot some braces...
I think this should work now...
(NB I tend to reserve "countable" to mean "countably infinite")
12:34
Is the converse of this true:
If $M$ is an (oriented) Riemannian manifold and $U$ a non-empty subset of $M$, does $U$ have positive measure with respect to the volume measure on $M$?
Anybody knows where I can simulate some sandpile stuff in computer ?
12:49
@Secret You're familiar with the concept of hereditarily finite sets, and $V_\omega$, right?
($V_\omega$ being the set of hereditarily finite sets)
I knew the very basics, including how they are recusively constructed and how to notate them, but other than that, I have not worked much with them yet
Heredity finite sets are those sets whoose subsets are finite sets, whoose subsets are finite sets and so on
So I probably don't know any more than you
Yeah, they're the ones that can be written with finitely many curly braces, essentially
The finite ordinals are one example
I was just reminded of them 'cause they seemed relevant to what you were musing about
The above musing can be more precisely stated as follows:
$S$ is a set that has finite cardinality but contains subsets of infinite cardinality
I came up with $S$ when trying to comprehend this line in this MSE:
> In particular, P(ω) (and therefore ω) injects into P(P(X)) for any infinite set X. That is to say that P(P(X)) is always either finite, or D-infinite.
5
Q: Is the powerset of every Dedekind-finite set Dedekind-finite?

alancalvittiIs the powerset of every Dedekind-finite set Dedekind-finite? I think this statement can be written in $\textbf{Set}$: If every mono (=injection) $f: A \to A$ is iso (=bijection), then every mono $g: 2^A \to 2^A$ is iso. (Please edit if necessary) Does the answer depend on some Choice princip...

12:53
@Secret I think that's phrased wrong
$\{\Bbb N,\omega,\{\Bbb N\}\}$ for example only has finite subsets
$\{\Bbb N\}$ is a subset, for example, but that has only one element
If $A\subseteq B$ then $|A|\le|B|$
hmm...
so that will mean if I have a subset that is $\{1,3,5,7,... \}$ then the whole sequence is one element?
e.g. $S = \{\emptyset, \{1,3,5,7,...\},2\}$
$\{1,3,5,7,\dots\}$ is not a subset of $S$.
It's an element of $S$.
$\{\{1,3,5,7,\dots\}\}$ is a subset of $S$.
user84215
The third week of the Abstract Algebra Course will start at 9:30 GMT on Saturday, October 28, 2017 in this room.
I see, then it is clear that there is only one element
@Secret In the second sentence, they mean P(P(X)) is always either finite (which happens when X is finite) or D-infinite (which happens when X is infinite).
Infinite is a stronger condition than D-infinite.
13:03
hmm... I thought D-infinite and infinite are equivalent even in the absence of choice, as I recall the weird sets that you get when discarding choice are the infinite dedekind finite sets?
"Dedekind-finite" just means "not Dedekind-infinite"
So if you have infinite D-finite sets, that means you have infinite sets that are not D-infinite, which means they're not equivalent.
I see
Another thing I am pondering about infinite D-finite sets $D$ are their intersection with countable sets, in that it is known that it can only be a finite set. But then if $D$ have nonempty intersections with countably many countable sets and all these intersections are disjoint, then it will mean $D$ has a subset consists of countably many elements and thus cannot be D-finite
Hm. I didn't realize that Dedekind infinite was equivalent to the existence of an injection from $\omega$ into it. But I think I see how to prove it
(Not a reply to what you just wrote)
If $A$ is Dedekind-infinite there's a bijection from $A$ to a proper subset $B$. Let $x$ be in $A\setminus B$; then the injection from $\omega$ into it is $n\mapsto f^n(x)$
13:42
hmm... I wonder if the following is amorphous:
o wait nvm. If my infinite dedekind finite subset is not amophous to begin with, then it is trivial to partition this set union with any finite number of finite sets into two infinite sets
0
Q: Conjugate direction field definition?

user8469759I'm trying to find any reference that defines what a "conjugate direction field" is. I think this is a topic of differential geometry, but I can't find any reference for this, I have many papers that mention this concept but none of them provide a good definition or reference I can look up. Is t...

14:02
For modules over a ring: does –⊗M ≅ –⊗N as functors imply that M≅N as modules?
14:12
[Random]
The following might be amorphous:
$A=\bigcup_{k\in \text{Uncountable}} \{a_k,a_{k+1}\}$
14:33
@Bubaya The tensor product functor is adjoint to the Hom functor. But now Hom(-, M) $\cong$ Hom(-, N) implies M $\cong$ N as R-modules by the Yoneda lemma.
So yes, that is true.
or apply the two functors to R...
@Secret What does $k\in\rm Uncountable$ mean? What is $a_k$?
Also note that the existence of these is independent of ZF (and impossible in ZFC).
Uncountable is some uncountable set. I am not sure if I need to make it dedekind finite in order to avoid the possibility of picking up a countable subset from it, but I think without the axiom of countable choice, it should be impossible for me to pick countably many i from an uncountable set
@MikeMiller Lol. Oops.
(also the uncountable set is not linearly ordered, as otherwise I would have introduced a linear ordering on $A$ and it will no longer be amorphous, I think...)
4
Q: What sort of structure can amorphous sets support?

Noah SchweberAssuming the Axiom of Choice, every cardinal is either finite (i.e., an element of $\omega$) or Dedekind-infinite (i.e., in bijection with a proper subset of itself). This dichotomy is not true in ZF, however; in particular, it is consistent with ZF that there exist sets which are non-finite but ...

and that is assuming I have interpreted this properly
> For example, say that a set is "even" if it can be written as a disjoint union of 2-element subsets.
15:05
@BalarkaSen I suspect a category theorist would say I'm still secretly doing Yoneda
Hey everyone!
"Congratulations! Your Balarka just evolved into a Category Theorist!"
"No refunds or exchanges allowed. Good luck"
15:28
Reading Truss paper on amorphous sets
hi all
@BalarkaSen Other than 'Rest' and 'Fake Out' what new moves do you get from evolving?
quoting ncatlab is a very powerful move
what else would you want
hey @MikeMiller
I was wondering if you can tell me little bit about Gauge theory
15:50
@BalarkaSen I figured that move was not very effective against Academic types..... so I was hoping for something to cover that weakness
I am suspecting an amorphous set can also be produced by a countable union of finite sets, as long the index set is only a poset to prevent obtaining a countable sequence
And it also seemed that partitions are an important tool in studying the structures and properties of amorphous sets
@BalarkaSen I think its kind of scandalous that they'd release an algorithm that has a false positive rate in excess of 30%.
I implicitly added an "... or not" there :)
But I think the point is now to give a heads up to all the hate messages and harsh criticisms youtube is getting for their shitty algorithms prior to this
Also since this is machine learning, I suspect there's going to be a lot of appeals that has to be manually dealt with at the start for the algorithm to learn monetizability
youtube's going to be busy for a couple weeks
16:10
I assume Patreon has been getting rich off this
(Patreon takes a cut of all donations I think)
16:21
Yea you can tell Patreon is starting to fancy themselves a 'big deal' because theyre starting to kick all the 'adult content' creators on the platform to the curb
16:35
[Random]
The following may be amorphous:
$$A = \bigcup_{i \in |S|=\aleph_0} \{a_i,b_i\}$$ where $S$ is a poset
16:50
i need to prove that $\neg$ cant be expressed with only $\vee , \wedge , \rightarrow , \leftrightarrow$ , someone can help?
@Liad you had some help given to you about that yesterday already.
What have you tried?
the help wasn't very helpful
:P
Well what have you tried?
of course i first assume it is , but this assumption means there is some combination of the above operations that gives $\neg$ , i dont know nothing about the combinaiton.
Well what was the help before that you were given?
17:06
@Liad Are you sure that's true?
Hello all.
@AlessandroCodenotti hm, it is a question in Mathematical Logic course, it is supposed to be correct, but maybe the TA did some mistake..
I'm asking because there's no minimal functionally complete set of connectives with more than $3$ elements so one of those can be thrown away and that seems weird
connectives means $n$-ary connectives with $n\le 2$ here
It is true. You need $\neg$ or something like it in your set.
@AlessandroCodenotti we can drop $\rightarrow $
and $\leftrightarrow $
wait, no
17:11
You can drop and 2 of them and express the other 2 in terms of them I believe.
well $\leftrightarroaw$ we can drop
no, at most one can be dropped
anyway, can you express $\bot$ in terms of those connectives?
I say the question is incomplete.
because $a \leftrightarrow b = a\rightarrow b \and b \rightarrow a $
Why can't we say $p \rightarrow q = \neg p \vee q$ and $p \leftrightarrow q = (p \wedge q) \vee (\neg p \wedge \neg q)$?
17:13
because we can't use $\neg$
and you used "and" instead of "or"
Oh, of course I'm sorry I confused what set we were talking about.
now it is right :P
My apologies.
I'm not convinced that $\{\land,\lor,\rightarrow\}$ is functionally complete, but I might be wrong of course
17:14
@AlessandroCodenotti I think hes supposed to show its not functionally complete
Or rather that you can't combine those guys to get $\neg$
im not sure what is functionally complete but the question is just that $\neg$ cant be expressed as a combination of them
oh, I can't read
I thought you were asked to prove that you can write $\neg$ in terms of those other connectives
which seemed false to me, ignore my previous messages
Huh
do neg of what you thought :P
Ok, I'm not sure how to prove it then, but I have a potentially useful hint
Alright
17:17
@Liad Try thnking about it this way. You need a function $f$ where $f(1) = 0$ and $f$ can be written as a composition of $\vee, \wedge, \rightarrow, \leftrightarrow$. What happens where you make $p$ true in $p \wedge p, p \vee p, p \rightarrow p, p\leftrightarrow p$?
$\land,\lor,\rightarrow,\leftrightarrow$ are truth-preserving, in the sense that they return true under a valuation that assigns true to all variables, while $\neg$ isn't
Haha, alessandro and I are giving the same hint
$\vee$
[Random]
i think i see the idea. not sure how to formulate it
17:20
@liad Well you know that if $p$ is true then so is $p$ connected with $\wedge, \vee, \rightarrow, \leftrightarrow$
so we will get $\neg p = p$ if we assume by contradiction it is a combination of them
The following may be strictly amorphous by construction:
$$a = \bigcup_{i \in S}\{a_i\}$$ where $S$ is a poset and $|S|=\aleph_0$
having a poset should avoid linear ordering and thus prevent picking a countable subset from this
@liad Im not sure it will work out to look like that
Let me expand slightly on what I said yesterday.
err sorry
17:24
Wait, why not? if $\neg$ is a combination of the above, then by the "truth-preserving" of those operation we will get that putting true to "p" will give true, and it supposed to be false, or have i did not understand what you were saying?
Think about what we've said so far as a base case. What happens then if we do another connection? So let $q$ be any of $ \{p \wedge p, p \vee p, p \rightarrow p, p \leftrightarrow p \}$. If $p$ is true, what is the truth value of $q \wedge p, q \vee p, q \rightarrow p, q \leftrightarrow p$?
it will remain to be true
Yea, you did understand.
I've been dabbling with a medical dataset i've managed to get my hands on and i've built a simple feed-forward network using baseline characteristics.. I've been measuring the models performance using the area under the curve. I'm calculating the auc on both the training set & test set but for some reason i'm getting a much higher auc on the test set. train-.89 test=..94

I'm a little concerned as to why theres a higher auc on the test set? If anything i'd expect it to be a little lower than the train because of overfitting
Alright , thanks!
17:27
Is there some statistical logic behind this or should my spidy sense be tingling?
@liad So we can do a proof by induction then. We know the base case, start with $p$ and connect it t any of the connectives we're using here. If p is true it remains true. And for the inductive step we need something like if $q$ and $r$ are well-formed formulas of $p$ and the connectives that are true when $p$ is true, then using any of our connectives to connect $q$ and $r$ still returns a true result.
Alright, thank you @KevinDriscoll !
@Daruchini That sounds like a question better suited for the stats or data science stack exchanges
ah fair enough. thanks anyway
I think I've found my answer anywho :D
17:48
Hello, how do we deduce that 2 is a generator of $\mathbb{Z}_{13}^{\star}$ without finding the powers $2, w^2, \dots 2^{12}$ ?
@Evinda By finding some of those powers
Which powers? @TobiasKildetoft
@Evinda That's for you to determine
Hello

I have a simplified scenario which might help me to solve my actual issue
$-2 = 2x-8$
to find x I would have done this:
$\frac{-2}{2} = x-8$
$\frac{-2}{2} + 8 = x$
$x = 7$
which is obviously wrong...

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