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23:00
I mean making sure you fill in the holes in a given subject makes sense, and it's not really purely living your life out enjoyment so much as, why make yourself unhappy when it's not necessary?
yeah I'll be honest in the interview (part of the admission prozess)
@BalarkaSen you do that because you find it satisfying
:P
@Daminark wrong smartass philosopher, i have thought about that already
i can go on for hours on this lol
Balarka, I often gave some written questions to students who wanted to skip courses, and if they satisfied me on their knowledge, I let them skip and often awarded course credit.
i think waxing philosophical too much abt your own life kind of verges on intellectual masturbation
23:01
what if they didnt
did they have to take the walk of shame
out of the class
I'm not really wearing my keyboard philosopher hat just yet but I'd be interested at some point
tinfoil hat*
@EricSilva: I often told my professor colleagues that certain predilections for faculty to do uninteresting proofs from which students learn nothing is precisely mathematical masturbation.
Meow: This wasn't in class — it was totally separate.
room
office
@Daminark I'm listening to Slavoj Zizek while I talk to you
23:02
Well, students often don't know/understand as much as they think they do. But sometimes they do.
It's important to be fair.
Balarka, it's past your bedtime.
oh god zizek sniffle
I'm the very model of a dank existential philosopher
resigns from the popular music discussion part
I guess @Lucas disappeared. I was gonna ask what linear algebra he's now working on.
@Eric And so on
@Meow isn't that for conspiracies?
23:04
@TedShifrin I didn't.
the tinfoil hat is always to be worn if you want to be a true keyboard warrior
Can I switch my major to keyboard war actually?
isn't the d key gone from your keyboard
you broken man
i still think i want to pursue a CS major
Guess what's happening as we speak @Balarka
Paying for my now fixed laptop
23:05
i dont know as Ted has said a million times i have so much time
to think about it
@Daminark ohhh shite
i was thinking maybe your keyboard was playing darude sandstorm again
dddd
ddddddd
ddd dddd dddd ddd
dududududu*
How many cykas add up to a blyat?
What the heck is going on in here?
smh if youre a math major you SHOULD know this
23:07
More like MC Mental
@SimplyBeautifulArt ??? using the h*ck word in this christian establishment?
dekelekekelekekeleke
how are you
i mean
@MeowMix Hmph, well, this isn't christian.SE
how could you
23:08
@MeowMix Oh, I'm doing fine
@MeowMix yee
@Balarka how many days until the collapse of capitalism?
@Ted by the way, I'm reading your book in sequence, naturally.
@SimplyBeautifulArt HANG THE HERETIC
23:09
What's wrong with capitalism? :(
@MeowMix looool
@Lucas: I gather you're enjoying it a little :)
cant watch that atm
can someone sum it up
im going to dinner in like 2 mins
the melon man becomes full cominist
23:10
wat
@Meow I'm an ultraleftist nihilist so I think there's a lot wrong with capitalism
i mean communst
#edgelordism
Such as?
@Meow you don't know the melon?
anthony fantano man
23:10
no
best teeth in the fucking game
I think this turned into nihilist/socialist.SE.
is there something im not getting
i just asked for a summing up of whts wrong with capitalism
i think in all seriousness that's a very complicated thing to try to sum up
well marx debunked capitalism yeaaars ago
23:12
basically entire fields of thought exist to address just that so
@BalarkaSen on general principle I'm just not gonna open up that rabbit hole
Well, the current US government that thinks health care is only for the rich can go jump in the ...
Instead I'll just salute komrad and then talk about kombinatorics or smth I dunno what to with my life
komrad, you need a break
here, take this ticket to a 15 days trip to gulag
So I have a quite bizarre question
23:16
Wish I could type in Cyrillic.
@PVAL your profile picture changing is making me dizzy
Given 4 arbitrary points on a plane, what's the probability that they form a convex quadrilateral?
On a Mac it's easy to do that, PVAL.
@Lucas: Let's first of all resize so that they fit inside the unit circle or something.
I'm on an ooh bun two though.
A who?
23:18
Ubuntu
@Ted at least the neoliberal center is finally coming around to the idea that healthcare could be for everyone, but i still dont think i can ideologically mesh with mainstream american liberalism
an ooh bunt who?
2
I truly don't know, Eric.
23:18
There all freaking evangelists to me.
but thats not a reason
@PVAL-inactive ubuntu 17.04 here
well Lubuntu
@BalarkaSen could you provide a link lol
I'm laughing so hard on that 17.04 comment
@MeowMix Link to what?
@Lucas: I know how to do a similar question. Given three points on the unit circle, what's the probability that the center of the circle is inside the triangle they form?
some reference of him debunking capitalism
Wait idgi
23:22
oh
didn't you see the video above?
@Meow he was being a facetious edgelord
i guess i can watch it now
now that ive had pizza
wait what this isnt an argument
im having a large man with a hat scream at me
YOUR A SLAVE
in all seriousness you could read Marx, he's not super hard to read as german thinkers of his time go
my a slave?
but i dont want to read marx. i want an instance of where capitalism fails
after all the burden of proof lies on he who makes the statement
23:24
@TedShifrin I don't know how to give a similar answer. :P
I mean pure capitalism doesn't really seem like it can be ideal, as often more profit does not really seem like it has to always coincide with the interests of a society.
Lucas, the key to the one I told you was affine geometry.
if youre talking about anarcho-capitalism
you're correct. an anarcho-capitalist society has inherent flaws
for a capitalist society to succeed it requires laws that protect the consumer, as well as the producer.
@Meow i guess you could talk about the links to american imperialism and capitalist society, how that has caused rampant destruction of the environment and undermined the ability of millions of people in e.g. latin america to economically self determine then that's an instance of how capitalism has failed
I mean generally there are games with Nash equillibriums that don't produce the most utility for the sum of the players.
23:26
@MeowMix O.o
but it isn't really as simple as people proffering arguments for or against capitalism as there's a history of looking at capitalist society through a critical lens
so acting in your own best interest generally won't lead to the interests of the whole player base being satisfied.
if you don't wanna read marx, you aren't going to understand the critique well.
@PVAL-inactive I am very excited to learn game theory.
heya Nate :)
23:27
I know there's lots of examples of these kind of games existing in a capitalist society.
I read Marx my senior year in high school. That was a long time ago.
Hello, Ted. :)
how is your afternoon?
i loooooved reading Marx
@Dodsy good thanks for asking
he's a really nice companion to read with smith
23:28
Doing fine, Nate, and you?
@PVAL-inactive how so?
What annoys me is people who use 'Marxist' as an epithet in contexts which are just silly.
Today is errands day, had to go grocery shopping and am now doing laundry!
I wish I never got out of bed.
Talking about the USSR as Marxist? Reasonable, though reductive.
well one of the standard arguments is that post-industrial revolution there has been a massive disparity/class-difference that has resulted in due to capitalism-based societal structure
23:29
very reductive
Talking about anyone in mainstream politics as Marxist? Now that's just dumb.
like, what acts of personal interest aren't good for a whole society
I guess I should say "understandable" rather than "reasonable" per se
"Marx was such a Marxist"
@MeowMix Dumping waste into a river because it's cheaper than disposing of it otherwise?
23:30
@EricSilva i assume by destruction of the environment you refer to things such as deforestation and the use of CFCs depleting the ozone layer
@MeowMix taking up consumerism as philosophy of life?
sure or the systematic theft of the resources of people
My troll was wasted on you people :_(
i dont believe thats an inherent flaw of capitalism
And lest I be accused of making things up, that's precisely one of the incentives that Wisconsin offered FoxConn in order for it to set up a plant there.
23:32
@Meow it's a flaw of imperialism, which in the west has a lot to do with capitalism, you can't talk about inherent flaws when economics isn't a closed system to begin with
I am going to depart for now, but @Lucas, keep in touch.
But i'm not talking about imperialism
@BalarkaSen is that a problem in itself though? Or is it more the result of such consumerism?
@Meow you can't takl about capitalism and imperialism separately, it's ahistorical and kind of wrong.
23:33
...I'm not defending or critiquing america
I'm talking about capitalism purely as an economic system
Then you're talking about something which doesn't really exist.
that's not a thing that makes sense
@Daminark my impression is that commodificaton of everything (labor, education, etc etc) results in from consumerist philosophy of the modern times
Ok, thanks @Ted.
Actually, just now I have a question.
In what way?
23:34
An economic system is also a system of power relations.
@Semi i feel like it's understandable in the sense of either being ignorant or willfully misleading for political reasons
Using some ideas of Ted's proof, I proved the Cauchy-Schwarz inequality. Is that sufficient to say that there's a unique $\theta$ such that $\mathrm{cos \, \theta} = \frac{\mathbb{x \dot y}}{||\mathbb{x}|| \, ||\mathbb{y}}$
@EricSilva eh, there's at least a credible line of logic in that the USSR avowed themselves as being in the Marxist tradition
@LucasHenrique There is a one line proof by completing the square.
Whether you agree with that or not, they did choose that image.
23:35
sure that's a fair point
By contrast, the way it's deployed as an epithet in American politics is just silly.
I agree
"cultural marxism" even more so, ugh
cultural marxism straight up is a vacuous term
23:36
@Semiclassical I think we might be doing actual math tomorrow in physics.
it turns out our physics teacher was teaching directly from a handout entilted "chapter 1"
I guess before that we had "islamofascism"
which at least had "islam" as a relevant word.
@LucasHenrique formatting is wrong but I think it is understandable
"cultural marxism" is a super pretentious term
2
23:37
there's a long history of "scary" words being used for american political terms for the purpose of misleading people
oh that's called something
hm
Eh, it's not pretentious. Pretentious implies you're only using it to look cool etc. What it is is a scary word.
I try not to think in terms of ambiguous words but to think of the concept as it really is from first principles.
In contrast, as I think is apparent (never read Marx), what part of communism addresses these apparent flaws of capitalism?
@Semiclassical as in, right wing politics uses that to scare people off?
i don't know how it's used on that part of the world
23:38
@Jasper :o
@Meow Marx literally wrote Capital as a critique of capitalism
Communism is uh not equivalent to Marxism
Meow Marx
@Dodsy Hiiii!
that's a cool name
Meow Marx Meow Marx please deliver
23:39
As I said, I'm not fond
@BalarkaSen For reference, here's Wikipedia's page on Islamofascism: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamofascism
Huh?
@EricSilva sorry what do you mean
Marx wrote a work called Capital
it's purpose is to critique capitalism
I don't see much reference to islamofascism these days, though. Still see BS about Sharia law.
@Semiclassical aha i see
23:41
B-but that doesn't answer
Sharia law in Muslim countries? Actually a thing, and something that you can be disturbed by.
You're just telling me he wrote a book
Sharia law in the US? Not a thing.
@MeowMix Point is people have written big tomes criticizing and countercriticizing capitalism
It's not something that can be explained in a few chat messages over the internet
capitalism sucks but it's better than (most) alternatives
I think we should all be given 2 goats, 2 cows, 2 chickens and a bunch of seeds and a plot of land
23:42
"what part of communism addresses these apparent flaws of capitalism?" - My point is that, what you're asking for, is written in a book that people have spent hundreds of years understanding, and you're not going to get a good understanding without reading it for yourself
I call it, dodsism
(I personally do not have any literary background on this, myself, just to clarify. I know fragments of historical incidents)
there are also lots of cogent critiques of marx, but you're not gonna understand them without reading marx
sorry, @Lucas. I got a phone call. What did you want to ask me?
@EricSilva on the other hand, dialectical materialism is pretty pretentious.
23:44
I super agree
about dodsism?
thanks eric
also a deck of cards to play solitaire
Do you mind if I ask some questions about communism?
Okay now that you added a deck of cards I'm happy
23:45
@Lucas: \cdot, by the way, not \dot ... There's a unique $\theta$ with $\theta\in [0,\pi]$ satisfying that, because you know from Cauchy-Schwarz that you're getting a number between $-1$ and $1$.
I'm a dodsist
@Meow I think an important thing is that I'm talking about is the marxist critique of capitalism, "communism" is a much more confusing term and not really appropriate here
@TedShifrin Yeah. I knew that from Cauchy-Schwarz. Now I just asked me "why wouldn't it be unique?" and I see that it was a stupid question.
LOL, ok :)
Another issue is a historical one: Marx's critique was aimed at capitalism as he understood it in his day and age.
23:46
yes^ very important
There's a different proof of C-S. in my video lectures, using calculus (minimizing a quadratic).
aka post-industrial revolution
Can I ask a question though?
There's certainly continuity between capitalism of that era and capitalism of this era, but a looooot of difference as well
the situation changed after a century of two big ass wars lol
23:47
But there's a long tradition of Marxist critique that sprang from that source
which remains very relevant
@Meow sure
How can wealth redistribution be fair?
How can 0.01% of the population having 50% of the wealth be fair?
By the way, I plan to read Marx at some point to get my own point of view on the matter
@Semi I have a lot of friends who are super into Hegel and stuff and say it's much easier to understand dialectical materialism after understanding Hegel but I have tried and failed to understand it a bunch of times
Yeah, that uh
23:49
it seems like dense nonsense
seems like a pretty good reason not to do it
There's a line of Nietzsche describing Kant that is appropriate here
@Daminark I knew you'd see the light, brother.
I think it's fair to say that some of the 0.01% have worked for their wealth
if not most
Okay so I'm trying to prove that finite $T_0$ spaces have at least one point that's a closed subset
23:51
If you already know this please don't answer outright, I do wanna think through
surely the way to go is to assume not and see how that breaks separation
@Meow part of Marx's argument is that the only way that the distribution of wealth is as unequal as it is is because of unfair exchange of commodoties by the people who control the distribution, so even if you "work" for it, it was unfair to have gained the wealth to begin with.
18 mins ago, by Semiclassical
An economic system is also a system of power relations.
You are still talking about marxism?
What is going on in this world
which is to say, questions of economy etc. are also questions of who has power over who, and how they obtained that power.
23:53
@Semi I love this
gdi youtube why won't you load
Well, what is the incentive for those living in an ideal communist society to work?
@MeowMix that just says that the economic system which makes such a small percentile of the community garner such a large amount of capital is broken
What's the incentive for someone who inherited millions of dollars from their parents to work?
Why are you trying to prove that, Demonark?
23:55
not being alienated from the product of your labour is an incentive to work
it's not a fault of a specific capitalist per se, just the system
So enumerate $p_0,\ldots,p_m$ and compare $p_0$ and $p_1$, they have the separating open sets $U_{0,1}$ and $U_1$. Then compare $p_0$ and $p_2$, etc. So you have $U_{0,1},\ldots,U_{0,m},U_1,\ldots,U_m$
@Ted it's an warm up problem I have
But those who have that wealth have taken the most risks (most are business owners or entrepeneurs)
it's a problem when your reason for working is that you're forced to commodify yourself just to survive in a world that uses your labour to raise up people in power while oppressing people who don't
Oh maybe this is an induction problem actually
23:56
@Daminark Think about two points first
Well in 2 points you have either the trivial topology (not $T_0$), or at least one of the points is open and the other is closed
@MeowMix That's crap.
So where did their wealth come from?
@Meow, their wealth came from unequal exchange
that risk logic makes no sense to me

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