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22:00
it's truly an algebro geometric operation
and can be done on varieties
but i <3 the topology
Replace a point with the tangent directions at the point @EricSilva.
okaynever mind
@ShaVuklia The $y$ in case 2 has nothing to do with the $y_n$ of case 1.
22:01
i remember it again
the name is very descriptive @Ted, it's a good choice of terminology
the algebro-geometric thing which I always wanted to understand was finite-gap potentials.
@Steamy yea i know but I had to write down something
but i got it
It showed up in one of the diff geo exercises.
you can also blowup along subvarieties...
22:02
the ones you sent me?
@Ted I liked that exercise
which are somehow algebro-geometric.
No, the undergrad
#2.2.21
of course, i dunno what blowup is to the modern algebraic geometry community
22:09
it's a very useful procedure to know
Blowing up ideals ...
@TedShifrin thanks very much ^^
something something Proj construction something something
You get it, Faust?
Yeah think i was able to prove it fairly formally as well ^^
22:15
man i wanna know something proper about algebraic geometry
ik nothing
Cool.
Some maps aren't proper, EricS :D
i'll hole up further on my own personal topological rathole
i guess i have to wait for fall since i have too much going on now
It's past your bedtime again, @Balarka.
22:17
oh well!
Hi @everyone
I'm back again
hi again
Heya Julian.
@Ted let's talk
That sounds ominous.
22:18
Haha well good things
I just wanna catch up that is all
Guys, not sure how readable this is, but we're proving the chain rule here. It's mostly symbols tho. My question is; at the end, they divide by $\Vert\vec k\Vert$. How do we know this isn't equal to zero?
$\vec k=f'(\vec a)\vec h+o(\Vert\vec h\Vert)$
@Ted Does your university email still work or do you now have a personal email?
It still works.
22:23
Sha, you're right. That proof is flawed.
If you look at the usual $x^2\sin(1/x)$ example, $k$ can be 0 infinitely often.
should we consider sequential definitions?
No. Just don't divide by $k$.
lol haha
okay
Actually you know what I will just talk here lol you haven't gone into the separate room so I guess we can talk here
I'm on my iPad, so I won't be here too long.
Dunno
22:27
Oh ok... Well then Ill just come back another time then
@Ted to prove this, shouldn't it hold then that $f'(\vec a)\vec h=o(\Vert\vec h\Vert)$?
No. Why?
I won't write the arrows; I need $\lim_{h\to 0}\dfrac{f'(a)h+o(h)}{h}=0$
wait
so we know that $o(h)/h$ goes to zero, so that's fine
but this other term, hm
wait
I think I'm confusing something
No, this isn't right.
I'm trying to show that $k=o(h)$
instead of $o(k)=o(h)$
22:33
Right.
No, wait.
is it easy to prove that $\sum_{1}^{\infty} \frac {1}{n}= \infty$ ?
Yes.
Sha, what is the defn of $k$?
$\vec k=f'(\vec a)\vec h+o(\Vert\vec h\Vert)$
$k=O(h)$
oh yea I just saw that
okay
22:35
That's not the defn of k
uhm
give me a sec
Isn't it $k=f(a+h)-f(a)$?
A standard trick is to compare the harmonic series to the following series:
$$1 + \frac{1}{2} + \frac{1}{4} + \frac{1}{4} + \frac{1}{8}+ \frac{1}{8}+ \frac{1}{8}+ \frac{1}{8}+\frac{1}{16} + \cdots$$
well if you insist:
Integral test is better for a beginner, Steamy.
That's NOT the defn, Sha.
22:37
What the hell?!
@SteamyRoot ah i can see how that goes to infinity
w8
ok im good nvm
thats rather clever ^^
What I gave is the defn, Sha. What you gave is a formula that is a consequence.
thats rather clever ^^
oh :(
yea I see now
oops
okay uhm
in any case, I guess I need to show that $\lim\dfrac{o(O(h))}{h}=0$
can we say something nice about $ \sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \frac {1}{a^n}$ in general?
where $a \in \mathbb{R}$
perhaps only is a is negative ?
22:46
Try a few values!
$a = -1, 1, 2$ are interesting cases.
That's fine, Sha. Show it.
And see if you can use any of those cases to deduce something more general.
oh
it's easy
actually give me a sec
I'm almost there
@SteamyRoot well if is a positive i wanna say it diverges if 0 undefined if -1 i think its 0 less than -1 it seems to converge to some negative value (maybe)
22:50
Don't guess and gamble.
Write out cases.
i dont know how to address the negative case though
Well, I'm going to sleep, so I'll give you a few tips.
@Ted Okay, so
$$
\left\vert\frac{(O(h)}{C\vert h\vert}\right\vert\leq \left\vert\frac{O(h)}{O(h)}\right\vert\to 0.
$$
It's not written out neatly, but that's the main idea. I'll write it out now.
You should note that for $a = -1$, that sum becomes $-1 + 1 -1 + 1 - \cdots$, so this series doesn't convergence. For $a = 1$ you're just taking $1 + 1 + 1 + \cdots$ so that clearly diverges.
Huh? You want $o(O(h))/h$?
22:56
why cant u just pair them up to sum 0 infinite times?
oh oops:P
sorry yea it's late here too
@Faust7 Because the partial sums will jump between $-1$ and $0$.
That's not right.
oh well
Or, in other words:
22:57
oh
note $o(5h)=o(h)$.
$$ 0 = (1 - 1) + (1 - 1) + (1 - 1) + \cdots = 1 + (-1 + 1) + (-1 + 1) + \cdots = 1$$
That's why you can't group them together ;)
yeah i realized it as soon as u said it ^^
And, my final tip: your series equals $\sum_{n = 1}^\infty \left(\frac{1}{a}\right)^n$
This is a geometric series!
ah thanks!
23:03
hey guys
mind checking an answer of mine out?
im not sure if it is 100% right
If something is bounded above and below by some finite real number can we say that it has at least one convergent sub-sequence?
0
A: Proof for elements of $\textbf{Z}[\sqrt{3}]$ regarding the existence of the norm.

TyphonThere is nothing wrong with Akiva Weinberger's post. However, since this post was made in the context of a somewhat more rigorous and formal setting, I'm posting a formal proof that I believe would most likely be considered acceptable in that setting. Let $z$ and $y$ be extended integers such...

looks like gibberish ^^
my proof?
D:
lol in the context its not bad
23:06
oh ok
I agree
extended integers is definitely weird outside of context
tbf, the professor said it was nonstandard terminology
it was just our classes name for it
youring doing too much work theres a better way to do it with less work imho
avoid the induction?
i would try and lean on Z being normal
normal?
@Faust7 i am afraid I don't know what you mean by that. Or maybe I'm being stupid. XD
uh
gimmie a sec
what are the generators of Z
23:12
um what?
can you tell me what you use as the definition of the norm of a ring?
@Faust7 what is a generator?
@Faust7 what are you talking about?
its somehting that would make what ur doing alot easier
this is really starting to confuse the **** out of me...
you are aware this wasn't an actual "number theory" course right?
its abstract algerbra
23:15
this was just an introductory abstract math course that happened to be number theory themed
@Faust7 not even that level. At least, not inherently so.
sup @Daminark
ok, yeah depending on how u define things theres a really nice easy way to show what you want to show
but its probally not taught in your course
nah probably not
everything we did was purely algebraic for the most part
did you guys define things like binary ops and groups etc?
for instance extended integers are numbers of the form $a + b\sqrt{3}$ where $a$ and $b$ are integers
23:19
yeah see i would call that a ring
@Faust7 binary operations are covered in a tangential non prerequisite course. Groups were never discussed. Even rings were never defined. I just happened to know of them already (to the professors surprise)
granted, I always thought rings were referring to things like boolean values, set algebra, dog and cat algebra, etc.
i never realized it referred to a classification of number sets
a ring is basically just a group with 2 binary operations
i know what a ring is, lol
that's what I was saying
the rest of the class just didn't learn it
well if you use that fact that 1 and -1 are the only generators for for Z
or at least... it was only ever mentioned in passing that it was ring.
@Faust7 that's where I get stuck. Do you mean units?
as in... invertible elements?
23:22
a generator is
for example
n=3 = 1+1+1
uhh
ooh
sorry do u know what an abelian group is ?
nope
group theory is the one thing I don't know
basically if i give you the number 1
and the operation of addition
you can make an natural number
and i mean when I say ring and field theory I mean I know their basic definitions and how to identify them
23:24
@Ted This is my attempt at the proof; so we have
$$
\Vert O(\Vert\vec h\Vert)\Vert\leq C\Vert\vec h\Vert.
$$
So it follows that
$$
\frac{o(O(\Vert\vec h\Vert))}{C\Vert\vec h\Vert}\leq\frac{o(O(\Vert\vec h\Vert))}{O(\Vert\vec h\Vert)}\to 0.
$$
So we see that $o(O(\Vert\vec h\Vert))=o(C\Vert\vec h\Vert)=o(\Vert\vec h\Vert)$.
if you have the concept of inverse suddenly you have all of Z
@Faust7 by inverse i meant 1/x btw
thats the inverse for multiplacation
yeah
the inverse of addition is subtraction though
23:24
reciprocal sorry
XD
so if i give u the number one and the ability to add or subtract with it, you can easily give me every number in Z
are you asking what all the elements whose reciprocal is also within the set are?
thats what it means to be a generator
ah ok
well I could argue that 1 and sqrt{3} are generators
something in the set that with that binary ops can give you the entire set
23:26
@Faust7 oh so by binary ops you were not referring to boolean algebra?
actually in your case neithier 1 or root 3 are generators
{1,-1,\sqrt{3}}
the set of both of them is
in case I need -1
not how it works?
first u need to find a unit using conjugates
23:28
oh
then define it so its in the ring
well that is easy
i actually proved what all units are in a form of
then ull find your generator
thats what confused me lol
i just didn't include it in the question as it was part of the extra project and so it was technically not needed material
plus, I thought it was tangential XD
its an interesting question i find it fascinating that one can solve it the way it was done
23:30
if we define units to be elements such that 1/x is also in the set
then all units are elements with norm 1
and they are all of the form $\pm (2 \pm \sqrt{3})^n$ for all integers $n$
@Faust7 does that help you find the generator?
those 2 things are the generator
2 + \sqrt{3} and 2 - \sqrt{3}?
@BalarkaSen The whole point of the Hopf map is that taking inverse images of stuff is locally multiplication by $S^1$. My guess was [annoying mental pictures] $\implies$ taking inverse images of stuff in the suspension of the Hopf map is also locally multiplication by $S^1$, at least away from the poles where things are probably more annoying.
@Faust7 hmm?
in your statement then all units with norm 1
shit i gotta go for a bit
23:33
ah
ill ttyl ok ^^
$\pi_4(S^2)$ (nontrivial element of) is the composition of those, so the inverse image of a point should be $S^1\times S^1$.
At least, that was my thinking.
@Faust7 units and elements with norm 1 are one and the same
@Faust7 it is the entire set that makes the generators though, right? Because technically 1 is an element with norm 1 and it isn't a generator by itself... though if I add $\sqrt{3}$ then 1 and the square root of 3 serves as a generating set. Is one more preferred over the other?
(oh, I wrote $o(\vec k)$ instead of $o(\Vert\vec k\Vert)$, but the proof is there @Ted)
23:43
@Sha: I think I would rather pick a function, say $f(h)$, which satisfies $f(h) = O(h)$. If I have another function, $g(h)$ that satisfies $g(h)=o(f(h))$, then I want to show that $g(h) = o(h)$. So for any $\epsilon$, $|g(h)|\le \epsilon|f(h)|\le \epsilon C|h|$ for $h$ small enough.
Then it follows that $|g(h)|\le \epsilon|h|$ for $|h|$ small enough.
@BalarkaSen Also the picture we had for the Hopf map (a torus with two linked circles on it) is, intrinsically, nothing more than two parallel circles on a torus.
rehi DogAteMy
So the picture for $\pi_4(S^2)$ is likely just, intrinsically, two parallel tori on a 3-torus, each with two circles on 'em.
The only question is how they're embedded.
Hi
that moment when you automate something ordinarily taking you hours a day and you're just sigh time to relax for a second... ok now to find more stuff to do.
(Balarka said he believes me that the preimage of a generic point is a torus. He cited some high-level theorems I don't know. I posted my reason for saying it's the torus a few comments above. @Ted)
23:46
Balarka and Mike were discussing this stuff, DogAteMy. I'm still not sure how you can just intuit a torus without some fancy stuff.
The Hopf map is very special, DogAteMy. I don't see that this $f\colon S^4\to S^2$ has any relation whatsoever to Hopf maps on $S^3$.
My thinking was each preimage multiplies it by $S^1$, essentially.
Hello everyone!
I see no reason why that should be true, DogAteMy.
Mike is citing some very powerful stuff to justify it.
@TedShifrin It's the composition of the suspension of the Hopf map ($S^4\to S^3$) with the usual Hopf map ($S^3\to S^2$).
hi Demonark
23:48
Hi, Doctor Nick!
@Daminark have you guys decided whos lecturing friday
Oh, that's a specific $f$ you're doing? Do we know that that generates the $\Bbb Z/2$?
@TedShifrin I vaguely remember seeing that in Hatcher when I was skipping around through chapter 4
Oh, if that's the map, I concur, DogAteMy.
(which I haven't actually read properly since I don't understand most of the theory in chapter 3 anyway)
23:49
Has bootcamp started, @EricS?
it starts wednesday
i.e., tomorrow
first four weeks will be dynamics and complex analysis
oh shit
it's tuesday
i had no idea wow
23:50
looks at internal clock Yup, still broken
second four weeks will be diff geo and probability
We'll decide when we meet up in person tomorrow
remember that preparing your first lecture is like waaaaaay harder than it seems like it's gonna be
Draw straws to see who can procrastinate most successfully?
Preparing any lecture is harder than it seems until you're a seasoned pro :P
And even then for lots of people it's still hard.
23:52
@TedShifrin Here is my problem. It is kind of tricky. I might post a question on it actually. You have one triangle in space and several others that share a line segment with it, if you were to form a geodesic which triangle is the one to pick? I assume it has something to do with angles but I am not quite sure.
I'm thinking/voting that Chris does the analysis one since he's been TeXing notes for the chapter
titchmarsh is hard to lecture from
i dont know how people did it
I actually don't know Titchmarsh well at all.
I've only glanced at it.
I dunno, Typhon.
fair enough
the exposition of the early 20th century british analysts is hard
23:53
I know how to disqualify triangles facing the wrong way and how to tell if they are connected
they definitely demand a lot of technical fluency in the basics
the trick is trying to determine which one actually contains the geodesic
Hardy & Wright is fine, Eric.
Oh, well, it's not analysis.
It's just Hardy.
like they demand doing crazy series manipulations in titchmarsh
once I can do that... well. :-)
23:54
is that the number theory book
I always tried to train grad students to get proficient at that, regardless, EricS.
time for some fun
@TedShifrin proficient at number theory?
ah ive never read it
23:54
And when I taught undergrad complex variables, I tried to train them too.
no, series computations — power series, Laurent series.
course of pure mathematics by hardy is not so bad but it's more basic than titchmarsh
i definitely think it's important, like after titchmarsh, the stuff that the grad analysis sequence here threw at me wasn't intimidating at all
it was fancier, but easier

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