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11:01
I know that $\ker v \subset \ker \pi$
So if $\ker \pi \subset \operatorname{im} u$ I am done
The site renders damn slowly. Hate it.
Oh but what the hell
@BenjaminLim what is the kernel of $\pi$? :)
we quotient out by the image so $\operatorname{im }u = ker \pi$!!!
yeah!
11:03
crap
Do you see my profile pictures? I am playing with those two now.....
oh crap what a diagram chase
I'll tackle the converse and the other proposition tomorrow
including the snake lemma...
Now let's take a step back: injectivity of $\bar{v}$ tells you that $v$ is surjective and exactness at $\operatorname{Hom}{(M,{-})}$ tells you that $v$ is the cokernel of $u$.
nice, Math Processing Error everywhere
@anon the resident set theorist approved the edit :)
what do you mean $v$ is the cokernel of $u$?? One is a map the other is a submodule
$v$ has the required factorization property
11:08
@anon: are you talking about this question?
To say that $M' \to M \to M'' \to 0$ is exact amounts to saying that the map $M \to M''$ is the cokernel of $M' \to M$.
@Ilya: obviously
@tb You are confusing me now....
Similarly, to say that $0 \to M' \to M \to M''$ is exact amounts to saying that $M' \to M$ is the kernel of $M$.
@anon what is confusing?
11:10
@BenjaminLim Prove the following: Let $I$ be the image of $u$. Then $M/I$ is isomorphic to $M''$.
There. Enough fuel to procrastinate very well.
@JonasTeuwen where? which cafe?
That's the first isomorphism theorem
because the image of $u$ is the kernel of $v$
@Ilya Kaldi.
@Ilya: $f$ is supposed to be $\mathbb{R}^n\to\mathbb{R}^n$. What are the components of $f$; it looks single-valued!
11:11
@BenjaminLim exactly. So there is no real difference between the canonical projection $M \to M/I$ and $v: M \to M''$, right?
@Ilya: Also, how can $\beta_{ij}$ range over $i=1,\dots,n$ and $j=1,\dots,n$ if $\beta\in\mathbb{R}^n$? That could just be the OP forgetting to make it $\in\mathbb{R}^{n\times n}$ though.
well ok yeah because once we know $v$ we know what $I$ is and so we know the quotient
HELL, this MathJax makes me a bit angry
@tb so.....
@BenjaminLim so, that amounts to saying that $v$ is a (the) cokernel of $u$, and in turn this is saying that $M' \to M \to M'' \to 0$ is exact. Nothing deep here, just rephrasing.
11:14
the same in Mozilla, nice. should I use IE now?
yeah ok.
I am really tired now
I will wake up tomorrow and look at it
10.15 now here in canberra
Then go play with your puppets!
try Ctrl+F5 Ilya
ce sont les chats
11:15
Good night, Ben!
@anon tried, what's that?
bye, thanks again for the guidance :D
super-saiyan-refresh
(I may be exaggerating)
it helped - but I can only render everything via SVG. Everything is so bold
11:17
That's exactly what I thought. Like, it's obvious you just copied+pasted and then put a 'please' in there.
@anon: no, it's not written that $\beta\in \mathbb R^n$ but rather that $\beta_{ij}\in\mathbb R^n$
He always asks such "questions" (there was one exception, I believe).
and that's how you obtain $f$ to be n-dimensional
So there are really $n^3$ degrees of freedom here. That's way harder to visualize.
No, $n^4$ for $\alpha$! AAAAAGGGHHH
@anon: don't think of the max-min shape, just use that it is a piecewise-affine map over some partition
11:22
Oh yes, that's that one joke. "How do you visualize 26 dimensional space?" Mathematician: "I just imagine $n$-dimensional space and set $n=26$."
@Ilya: Why?
@anon Kan has lost half of dimensions in his version, maybe he was thinking of $\mathbb C^n$
@anon: because it only confuses. Btw, I guess that min-max formulation can always be found for any PWA system
What does this guy want to achieve with this?
@tb Reputation, badges, worldly glory which will bring him women... who knows!
@anon: did I answer your question?
@AsafKaragila ah, that's why you have over 20k. So, which women are brought by this?
:-)))))))))))))))))
11:30
@Ilya And I do have worldly glory which brought me a woman. A wonderful woman.
(No typo there^)
The part about the min-max formulation always available to a PWA system answers my question I think, @Ilya.
I have to step out for a while. See you guys later
@tb goodbye
11:51
@JonasTeuwen Is your lecture now available online?
I see Math Processing Error in every post with maths. Is it just my browser or is it global?
Try Ctrl+F5. Didn't work for Ilya but let's see if it works for you.
Works fine here.
Hi @Dylan.
Hey Asaf.
@anon Nope. Does CTRL-F5 do anything special at all? CTRL-Refresh just opens new tabs in recent Firefox versions.
@AsafKaragila Also, I get the problem in all browsers I tried (Fx, Chrome, IE)
11:58
@Szabolcs Try formatting your computer and installing Linux instead... :-P
It doesn't open a new tab for me, and I have 10.0.2
@AsafKaragila Sure. Whenever Linux gets decent enough to at least boot when installed. As no version of Ubuntu does here :P
@Sza: are you sure you ctrl+f5'd, not ctrl+[refresh button]'d?
I said Linux, Ubuntu is basically GNU/Windows.
@anon CTRL-F5 reloads, and doesn't fix the problem. I just expressed my doubt that it does anything different from F5. But it doesn't work.
12:00
@anon Hey anon, mind helping me interpret an integra geometrically ? =)
I think it's a problem with the MathJax 2.0b servers.
@N3bu: I could try. @Sza: You could try googling "ctrl f5" to investigate your doubt.
Wouldn't it help if the software displayed the latex code instead of giving the error message? This way one could read anything at least.
@AsafKaragila Thank you for your answer. I'm reading it in the edit box. :)
$\text{What happens here?}$
Works fine.
@AsafKaragila I can read this one.
12:04
Evaluate the given iterated integral by reiterating it in a different order.
(you need to make a good sketch of the region)

$$\int_0^1 \mathrm{d}z \int_{z}^{1} \mathrm{d}x \int_{0}^{x} e^{x^3} \mathrm{d}y $$
Is that for a physics class?
My bookmarklets are extinct. :/
Anyway, 0<z<x<1 and 0<y<x<1
\cruisecontrol{THEN WHY ARE THE $dz$'S BEFORE THE INTEGRANDS?}
MathJax is working again.
12:10
@anon I just typed this straight from the book..
No, it's not.
I know, I know, N3bu
Damn. Now it's not working for me. - shakes fist at the sky gods -
@anon Same here
What is missing from my sketch ?
a 3-dimensional region is missing
OR rather, how can I make my sketch complete, I am having a hard time seeing it.
12:13
Put the line y=x=z in there and then the 3D region will be inside that line, the red and blue lines, and the x-axis.
within the first-quadrant unit cube anyway
Eh, how do I draw the line y = x = z? sorry for asking such stupid questions =(
Will it be the same as drawing y = z?
It's a line diagonally through that cube I was talking about. It goes from 0,0,0 to 1,1,1
Fine for me.
@anon So the area becomes somewhat of a pyramid?
Not for me.
12:19
Oh, now it's up.
It was only a few seconds, but DFEOJM confirmed it.
Does MO work for you?
Now, it's a goner! It's not up?
@N3bu: No, not a pyramid. There are not four, but five vertices.
.net not .com
The DNS gods have spoketh.
12:22
Math Overflow and Stack Exchange down! Argh. : )
@anon Have a good collection of these sitpics?
sitpics=situation pictures, father=sitcoms!
I do have a good collection (though slashed into a small fraction; I once hid a hard drive so well that no one would find it if I ever forgot its whereabouts. well, I forgot its whereabouts...) That particular one I just remembered off the top of my head. I think I first saw it like half my lifetime ago!
in The Assembly, 1 min ago, by Sathya
No, don't despair! We're going to repair! RT @marcgravell: Yes, yes, we know! #stackoverflow
What's MO's excuse?
Oh, MO's back.
12:28
Yes, we're back.
Um, latex isn't parsing for me..
@anon for me too. what's going on, do you know?
18 mins ago, by anon
user image
basically this
12:48
@KannappanSampath I think so.
@anon How did you do that animation?
I asked my computer really really nicely.
@anon Thanks
@JonasTeuwen Links would be appreciated. :-)
I just posted a well-known gif, nothing special.
@JonasTeuwen :-)
On a lighter note, do you prepare notes for your class or the examples are pretty much off the cuff?
@Jonas ^
@KannappanSampath I prepare notes.
@anon How's that?
Yeah... it's animated alright.
13:07
It's called "Newtons cradle."
What I get of the language you speak there is: vb=Example.
@Skullpatrol you mean Newton spent there the first period of his life and one of balls was periodically beating his had? That's quite a reasoning why did he come up with mechanics and stuff
@KannappanSampath Voorbeeld.
So, not example but FIGURE?
@Ilya ;-)
13:16
@KannappanSampath It means example.
Google then sucks. :-)
@KannappanSampath eee
Pete of the Clark variety is around, how I wish I told him his commutative Algebra notes were awesome.
We're experiencing some unexpected downtime. We're investigating. Sorry for the inconvenience.
2
@Raphael may I ask a question?
13:19
:-()
@Ilya er, sure?
@Raphael I had some problems with MathJax on Chrome for the last month - like it started render slower than before, it blinks when I type the text etc.
@Ilya I have had problems too (FF). Braces even topped working without escaping the slash, HTML+CSS renderer wrote across text... It seems as if they were changing some stuff for the worse.
@Raphael: yeah, when I changed renderer to SVG it became much better. It only looks not so nice as HTML+CSS
@Ilya You know, I do wonder why Russians always have to use so much force when they hammer down the keys...
13:27
@Ilya I went with MathML, but yea.
@Raphael MathML is not supported in Chrome, unfortuantely
(If he's even Russian : ))
Anyway, see you later folks.
@MattN Matt? that's how I was also taught. I don't know if he is Russian - probably, no. Rather an Eastern European
That's too quick Matt!
@Ilya That's what you get for using spyware! ;)
13:29
@Raphael: pardon? )
@Ilya No Google watchdog on my PC, thank you.
@MattN: -ich is not so often for Russians
@Raphael icic :) I'll tell nobody
(oh dear, how many people reading this work at Google? :X)
:D
@Ilya Yes, just realised. Sorry for the mix up. But Eastern Europeans all use a lot of force.
13:30
@MattN I wouldn't been wrong, I guess, if I assume a bit of an influence from Russia
hm...
I'd play it a bit more like this (if I could play the piano) although I think he plays it in a slightly too boring way.
Oh dear. I really love music.
@MattN: if I manage to find you an example of my favorite way of playing, I'll tell you
@MattN: well, this one is without a video of playing but the sound is as soft as I like
I'm always surprised when I see a random dude on the internet be awesome.
he is indeed good
@Ilya But... that's not a real instrument!? T_T
13:44
@Matt Done with Chapter 1 of AM? :-)
Not yet. But thanks for reminding me, I got distracted.
Have to do that now.
My bad, I think I should not have asked, there he goes floating. I think he took it as a thing of some sort! :/
Hello everybody!
Hi @Ilya :)
Hi @Skullpatrol
13:47
Hi Nimza.
Hi @KannappanSampath )
Today I have such a silly question: consider an equation on matrix S in O(n): (M - S)a = 0, where a, Ma are on unit sphere S^{n-1} and a, M are known. Does this equation have a solution for any M?
Heh, i'm so stupid. Of course it has :D
i was wandering about a continious solution when M = M(t), a = const
14:18
In 3-d case it is OK, i can find a perpendicular to the plane (a,Ma) and choose S as the rotation of space around this perpendicular. In further dimensions I'm stocked
So S is the unknown? You might as well just forget M and make it b=Sa, in which case of course there's an S: O(n) acts transitively on the sphere S^(n-1).
And the construction in higher dimensions works just the same, you just have higher degrees of freedom in your choice of S.
yes, now I have to specify a continuous solution S(t) of b(t) = S(t)a. In 3d it is easy, but I don't know what to do in further dimensions. Is there some similar result to the Euler's theorem? I
Ah.
I think the most natural way to approach that would be Lie-theoretically
hm...
If you choose a chain of $S(t_i)$'s that take you from $b(t_0)$ to $b(t_1)$ to ... to $b(t_n)$, where the $t_i$ partition some interval (u,v) more and more finely (uniformly blah blah), then the $S(t_i)$'s should approach some curve in O(n), right?
14:33
yes
Gah. My latex is no longer parsing in-chat!
Me to.
4
A: TeX no longer rendered?

Willie WongAs of 14:20 UTC, MathJax.org is down, hence all MathJax requests fail.

EVERYBODY PANIC
I'm not sure I understand the question: but if you intersect the plane spanned by (a,Ma) you get a circle (well, assuming that a and Ma are not antipodal). On this circle it is easy to write down a continuous solution, then take an orthogonal complement of that plane and fix that complement.a
@anon yea, you kind of get used to immediately readable math.
14:40
Sometimes I really wonder who votes up crap like this
=1?! Also, grad\?!
Oh, I suppose that's just cursive grad with space after it.
@tb so when in 3d we need to observe dynamics of a single perpendicular here we have to observe dynamics of many "perpendiculars"?
Is MathJax dead for everyone?
Ah, I see the post :-)
@Nimza I don't know what you mean by that. There's no dynamics of the perpendiculars if you fix them :)
Hi robjohn
Don't worry everybody. MSE is currently just on pro-mode.
14:46
@tb hm. it is fixed for fixed t. But when b(t) changes the plane spanned by (a,b(t)) changes too, then its orthogonal complement changes
In 3d it means that the axe in the Euler's theorem changes with the time
I probably don't understand your question.
Henry fixed his question.
@anon three attempts to get one line right. That deserves an upvote :)
The question is, let a be a fixed vector and let b(t) trace out a continuous path on the sphere. find a continuous function S(t) in the orthogonal group such that b(t)=S(t)a.
thanks, anon)
14:50
SO works too, if my imagination works right
So it is sufficient to observe dynamics only of a basis of the orthogonal complement to span (a,b(t)) ?
Thanks anon. I don't think this can be done in this generality (since b(t) could cover the entire sphere).
What about working locally, as with my solution?
But if $b$ is only slightly regular (piecewise $C^1$, say) you should be able to do it locally.
14:54
Oh, I'm thinking differentiable. Not sure if it makes sense for just continuous.
@robjohn Is MathJax 1.999... also dead?
Skroll up @Skull
@Skullpatrol the whole mathjax site is down
Quick question:
"So. It has come to this."
14:54
Thanks, so I'll try to work with peacewise continuous S(t)
hhh
hhh
Could someone help me to parse this differential, particularly the second term? koti.kapsi.fi/~he/why.png
@anon Then your solution is the way to go. And if you start in SO the entire path will lie in SO since SO is path-connected.
Yes.
@MattN I am seriously sorry if you took in the wrong way. :-)
@Nimza sounds better than a belligerent function :-)
14:56
1 hour ago, by Kannappan Sampath
My bad, I think I should not have asked, there he goes floating. I think he took it as a thing of some sort! :/
heh)
@Matt: Did you have a question?
It takes a hell of a long time for a quickie :)
If you have the following definition of a subring: "A subset $S$ of a ring $A$ is a *subring* of $A$ if $S$ is closed under addition and multiplication and contains the identity element of $A$."
According to Wikipedia, a subring is supposed to contain $0$ (implied by definition of a subring)

Take $A = \mathbb{Z}$ and $S$ the subset containing $1$ (the identity). Now how on earth will this contain $0$? Is Atiyah not requiring a subring to contain $0$ or what?
lol
14:57
Or is this yet another typo?
hhh
hhh
err I probably know my solution, had to print the problem on paper ... much nicer to read, second.
On a completely different note: my mathjax plugin stopped working. Is this just me?
Are you sure Atiyah is saying {1} is a subring of Z?
mathjax is down.
@MattN So, is mine and the whole thing is gone!
14:58
@KannappanSampath What? No. That was good. Otherwise I'd still be lazing around, listening to music or whatnot.
@KannappanSampath Bloody sucks.
@MattN how on earth will $\{1\}$ be closed under addition?
because {1} isn't closed under addition
No. The set containing one (but also 1 + 1, 1 + 1 + 1, etc) Obviously.
Which page @MattN?
@KannappanSampath 2
hhh
hhh
14:59
sorry noise, solved it :P ...chat is good way to process qs :)
so... the subset equaling the whole of Z?
No. How do you get negative numbers by doing addition?
Where on Pg.2?
additive inverse
But we don't have that. Or what does closed under addition mean?
15:00
you want a subgroup of the additive group which is also closed under multiplication and contains $1$.
I thought closed under addition meant a,b in the ring then a + b in the ring.
Yes, right!
@tb Yes. So you're saying "yes that's yet another typo"?
Sure, but a subring has to, ya know, be a sub ring.
No, there is no typo there.
15:02
If I have a subset that is closed under addition, multiplication and contains 1, then how do I get 0?
Subgroups are groups in their own right, subrings are rings in their own right, sub... you get the picture.
Except Smarandache, no one would consider $\mathbb{N}$ as a subring of $\mathbb{Z}$.
@anon No subgroups, only subsets : )
Closed under multiplication means for $a$ in S, $-a$ in $S$.
No. It doesn't.
15:03
So, $a+-a$ in $S$.
Well, unless Atiyah defines it that way.
But he doesn't define it at all, in fact.
closed under multiplication means $a^{-1}$ Kanna (if we assume closure entails existence of inverses), don't confuse addition and multipication :)
Well, I am sorry.
There is identity element of $A$.
Interesting... Design Science, Inc (home of MathJax) is in Long Beach, CA (not too far from here). However, my traceroute ends in Dallas, TX.
I have a book that actually defines words before he uses them and he defines closed under x as "if a,b are in the set then a x b is also in the set".
Are there other definitions of closed wrt floating around?
15:05
@anon That was a joke I was trying to fit between MathJax 2.0 and MathJax 1.999... ;-)
Because if not I think this is a typo. Unless we completely redefine subring to not actually be a ring itself because it won't contain the additive neutral element.
Matt: That's what I take it to mean. It might be the case Atiyah has a stronger idea of what closure is than what I've seen everywhere, one that includes inverses (or he just forgot to state the latter). Either that or his definition of subring is so loose it allows for multiplicative monoids.
Yes.
@anon Thank you anon!
I want to kick Atiyah in the balls.
What a crappy book.
Never mind inventing your own words and then using them without defining them.
I count this as a typo.
This is getting too silly for me. See y'all later.
I would count it as ambiguity/omission.
So says the Teddy Bear.
15:08
Heh.
Did I cause that?
@tb Sorry about that : (
No, I think he just wanted to say something about the conversation as he left.
But that wouldn't make much sense.
@anon or perhaps he was commenting on the lack of MathJax.
I offended teddy. : (
Nah. I think it was just a split-second thing he thought to say before he left.
15:10
: ( : (
Look at you wallow in guilt.
@MattN It wasn't your fault.
@robjohn But it totally sounds like it!
It was my 1.999... joke's fault.
15:12
You better have a long apology typed up for t.b. when he gets back. You wouldn't want him to give you the silent treatment.
@MattN Don't go away wait.
I am funny sometimes.
@KannappanSampath Why? I can't study while I'm here. Do you have a question?
Oh look, it's that konig dude.
@AsafKaragila but looks aren't everything ;-)
15:13
LOL
@anon Yes. I wouldn't. That would make me quite miserable.
@robjohn More like this.
@KannappanSampath Totally relevant! Thank you, Kannappan!
Ok, I'm off again, see you later.
Thanks for your help! I hope I can catch him later and find out the details about that comment.
"crazy relationship" redundant
15:15
@AsafKaragila probably funny
Hi.
@anon How come this Gif thing didn't work when I tried to post it on facebook? Hi @Danil
@Skullpatrol what GIF thing?
maybe bc fb doesn't animate gifs in whatever view you have? I dunno, I don't use fb.
15:20
Is Farcebook friendly with animated GIFs?
What's bc fb
bc=because fb=facebook
I think that this guy is trying to game the system for an Archaeologist badge.
Kazark?
Hmm. Moral from Matt's question: Ever be alert. I had gone through this chapter and thought these were stupid definitions that I knew, In fact I was trying to argue in favour of Atiyah. How sick of me.
15:25
@anon Yes.
Oh lordie, that user's profile.
Yes.
Look at the edits he's making. All very minor.
@Asaf Hello, how does this day find you? :-)
As usual: tired and too lazy to work.
desperate to strike up a conversation, if that was not a kind of obvious
@AsafKaragila So, no chicken invaders?
15:29
@Skullpatrol In my browser (Firefox on Mac) that animation looks funny since the browser uses a steady framerate. The animation actually has a variable framerate to make the animation look more natural.
Eh, they seem like valuable edits.
@robjohn What are the advantages of using MathJax 2.0?
more features, supposedly less laggy when editing.
though at the moment, nada
Well, no reply from @Asaf makes me feel bad. </3 Anyway Atiyah McD now!
15:33
</3
;-)
codecogs works anyway
@robjohn How does that look?
@Skullpatrol looks fine. Animated GIF?
Yes
Thanks to anon
What the hell. W|A interprets an expression perfectly, but I put one minus sign in there and it throws its hands up in the air.
15:43
@anon Try multiplying by -1 instead.
yeah, no
@AsafKaragila the twitter link you posted on meta.MO doesn't work (needs further editing)
@tb It works fine for me...
$\Huge \text{MathJax is back!}$
Wait. You guys wanna tell me that Peter Krautzberger is behind MathJax?
15:55
@AsafKaragila yeah :)
Man, this guy is behind everything.
I bet he's behind me right now. Well, he disappeared just as I turned my head to check.
heh :)
@AsafKaragila well, he's quite busy by standing behind everyone...

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