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00:00
(so no need to resort to pastebins)
I don't think there's a fail-safe general recipe for determining limit points. You need to play around with the set at hand and see if you can say something sensible. In the case at hand, you should be able to come up with a conjecture. To prove it, you need to estimate a little.
I apologize but I do not know latex. I mean it is evident that that the set goes to zero pretty quickly. I do not know how to go about showing that this is the only limit point though or determining if it is.
So, the numbers you have are all positive, right? And when you say "it goes to zero pretty quickly" the intuition is: no matter what m is the quotient F_m / F_n is very small since m < n. Can you quantify that?
In other words: can you give an upper bound of F_m / F_n in terms of n and m?
The first term (m=1 and n=2) would be our upper bound because 1 is the smallest difference we can have between n and m and therefore n=2 is the smallest denominator we can have.
00:16
Yes, that's right. Now try to adapt this idea to show that there are only finitely many quotients that are larger than any given positive epsilon. Do you see what this would give?
This would give that zero is an accumulation point. Would that simultaneously show that zero is the only accumulation point?
Yes, because there's nothing a finite set can accumulate to!
Ohhh!
If there was any doubt I could assume that there were two accumulation points and this would lead to a contradiction.
So, you've essentially convinced yourself that 0 is an accumulation point and now you should make the idea that no other one can be an accumulation point precise. To achieve this, look at the fractions and estimate them from above (by making the numerator larger and the denominator slightly smaller). This should give you a good enough bound to show what I asserted earlier on.
It's getting late here, so I should go to bed now. I'm pretty confident that you'll tackle that problem. Good luck and see you around!
Good night y'all
Thank you tb! I really appreciate your help.
00:42
Gee, Kannappan! Go to bed!
01:15
Is anybody here?
Hi! I've been wanting to ask you something.
Is your avatar random?
scan it
then u will know :D
What does it mean?
it's a qr code or it looks like one.
01:18
I have no idea what a qr code is...
@DennisHayden Yes, it is a QR code.
@ymar Wikipedia. : )
I just found the same picture on the internet
I f i had to guess it is realy and it links to a site that @KannappanSampath like/wants people to see.
Oh, I see.
It's on that wikipedia page too.
@ymar Not the same, but they look similar. You cannot even guarantee a non-trivial homomorphism I say.
Hi @Sivaram
01:19
Hi @KannappanSampath
did u see the chat I sent on skype
I started reading Halmos
Anyway, does anybody know how I can access an obscure doctoral dissertation from 1969?
it is very good to read and understand the underlying concepts. I read the first two sections and have hopefully clearly inderstood the motivation for Axiom of extension and axiom of specification
@ymar Can you give us the title of the doctoral dissertation?
It's here. The Multiplicative Semigroup of a Ring
The best mathematical library in my city doesn't have it.
01:37
I have a question for the function Q($x$)= $x^2+c$ . How do I find the value of c that have a super-attracting fixed point?
@KannappanSampath Yes! Apparently, they sell copies. It would be a drastic measure, but I may have to do it.
Well, think about asking your theses advisor to write to someone there in UTK and ask for a copy of the theses. It should be possible.
For free? That would be good. I've just found out that it costs $49. I've never bought a book for this kind of money! :)
49$ stabs my gut already! : (
So anyone have an idea to find valuse of c with a super attracting fixed points? :D
01:48
What does super-attracting mean?
Gee. There's too much stuff on the internet.
"too much stuff on the internet" - lemme guess, you googled "super-attracting" :)
That too. I google too much.
:Not to be confused with a stationary point where f(x) = 0. In mathematics, a fixed point (sometimes shortened to fixpoint, also known as an invariant point) of a function is a point that is mapped to itself by the function. A set of fixed points is sometimes called a fixed set. That is to say, c is a fixed point of the function f(x) if and only if f(c) = c. For example, if f is defined on the real numbers by :\ f(x) = x^2 - 3 x + 4, then 2 is a fixed point of f, because f(2) = 2. Not all functions have fixed points: for example, if f is a function defined on the real numbers as f(x) =...
@DennisHayden There's no definition of super-attracting there...
yea but it explains what a fixed point is
01:53
@anon Do you use MikTeX, please say yes. : )
:-)
or what an attracting fixed point it.
yes.
Now, shall I ask for help in using some new packages I installed, please? @anon
Alright, I need to go to bed. People should stop writing all those papers and get a life.
Goodnight.
01:56
good night
The only package I installed, I put the file somewhere in a MikTeX folder and then just put \usepackage in my header. And that is the extent of my knowledge of installing packages :D
:/ I need help badly, very badly.
I can try to help I am a computer ninja.
@DennisHayden Well, I installed a few packages and when I say use package, it shows some error saying .sty file not found. What do I do. then?
do you know where you installed the packages and where the program read/looks for the files.
02:02
googel for the .sty file
and copy it in the same folder
as your tex file
it should do the job
Oh, I see. Let me try now.
leo
leo
@KannappanSampath do you use MikTeX or TeXLive?
leo
leo
@KannappanSampath 1.Go to the MikTex Settings(Admin)
leo
leo
02:17
@KannappanSampath 2. In the tab "General", in the option "Instal missing packages on-the-fly" select "Ask me first"
3. Then go to the tab "Packages" (that can take few seconds)
Am I special or a few things got broken on the main site?
Nothing happens if I click in the inboxy thing on the top left corner, for example
works fine for me
leo
leo
@KannappanSampath 3. Click "Change..." and select "Packages shall be instaled from the internet" and click "Next"
4. Select your preferred repository
5.Then OK and OK
@leo FYI, I already installed the package. Do I still have to go through step 3?
leo
leo
02:23
@KannappanSampath wait a second
when you do all this
you compile your document and, if everything is fine
pops up a window that ask you if you want to compile your document
then you accept
and it works
If you have already installed the package then perhaps your IDE don't know where are the directories of LaTeX
Going through step 5. now.
leo
leo
what do you use? Texmaker?
Yes. Texmaker. Is that a wrong thing to use?
(Seriously, I am facing hiccups with LaTeX like hell.)
leo
leo
@KannappanSampath no. Is the better. I think :-)
what package is? by the way
exercise package.
leo
leo
02:29
@KannappanSampath do you installed it with the wizard provided by MiKTeX?
@leo Yes. I'll plug in LaTeX error here.
! LaTeX Error: File `exercises.sty' not found.Type X to quit or <RETURN> to proceed,or enter new name. (Default extension: sty)Enter file name:! Emergency stop.<read > \title
even I use Texmaker
leo
leo
@KannappanSampath do you configured MiKTeX as I have recommend?
@leo Yes. :-)
leo
leo
ok
02:32
I was given a weird problem that I don't understand. It states something along the lines of I have a pet with a head of 16 cm, a tail of 16 cm + 1/4 the size of the body(trunk) and the trunk is equal to the sum of the head and the tail. Isn't this recursive?
leo
leo
@KannappanSampath Go to the Texmaker/Options/Commands
and check all the paths
@Kannappan : Placing the file exercise.sty (style file) manually in the working directory would solve the problem
You mean, configure TeXmaker...?
leo
leo
@KannappanSampath yes
@RajeshD How would I do that? This seems to be precisely what I want to know. : )
leo
leo
02:36
@RajeshD not if the package needs other files than the .sty, as usual
Where is your current latex file which you are making is the working directory....now place the exercise.sty in tis folder.....not only this all the other files which came with your excersise should be placed here
leo
leo
for example in front of "LaTeX" must be something like
`"C:/texlive/2011/bin/win32/latex.exe" -interaction=nonstopmode %.tex`
without the ` `
@leo Those are all fine. Because others compile. Just those docs that use new packages don't.
Do you have the file exercise.sty with you @Kannappan
?
@RajeshD Yes. Thanks to @Sivaram, he sent me the file. :-)
leo
leo
02:40
@KannappanSampath ok. I see the problem. wait a second
now What ever Sivaram has sent you...put all those files in one directory.....now work in that directory..ie place the current latex file you are making in that directory
Ok, wolfram solved my issue. wolframalpha.com/input/… I still do not understand it.
make sure your file name is same as that of the file name given by Sive...take a back up of it...then open it and remove the matter in it and start typing your matter
@RajeshD He sent me only one file. (the .sty file) and I have a .tex file I put all of them in a folder in desktop. Is this right?
leo
leo
@KannappanSampath try to compile a document with the command \usepackage{subfig}
02:42
yes
leo
leo
@KannappanSampath tell me if pop up a window that ask you if you want to install that package
you need to mention in our .tex file directing to use the specified .sty file
@All Miraculously, TeXmaker behaves sensibly. I am through. Done!
It works.
leo
leo
what do you do
I should thank all of you for all the help.
@Sivaram Thank you for .sty file.
leo
leo
02:46
you move the file to you work directory
@Rajesh and @leo For the instructions.
leo
leo
@KannappanSampath try with \usepackage{thmtools}
@leo Should I install that package.
leo
leo
@KannappanSampath no. Is Just to prove if he ask you, if you want to install it
sheesh, still not sleeping, Kannappan?
02:52
Well I am off to sleep people.
@tb I am going to sleep right away. :-)
Isn''t it like 10am where kanna's at?
hi folks. i guess i left this browser window open when i shut down :D
...and I see many of the same people are still here! :D
 
1 hour later…
04:14
yes @anon now it is
Hello everyone! Does anyone have a link to your discussion to enable mathjax on meta? I can find the mathjax-on-main discussion. Or did you get mathjax support simultaneously for both sites? On physics.SE we have mathjax on the main site but not on meta, and we want to see if its easy to acquire...
leo
leo
you want to the meta or the chat
leo
leo
i think you should request that to the moderators
Oh, I was discussing it with a mod
We wanted to see how hard it was to get mathjax
04:53
Basically we wanted to see if it was worth the effort..
 
4 hours later…
08:34
how do we type mathematical symbols here
do we need to install some special software
special symbols like integreal signs
integral
@5T0M: Have you heard of LaTeX?
Yes little bit
We use it in chat here. See math.ucla.edu/~robjohn/math/mathjax.html
so we have to learn this language to be able to write symbols?
That or you could just try to use plain English or ascii text. If you want help with latex there's this and this
09:14
Hello
@Dan: hi
THANKS for the help @anon
09:35
@Ilya A colleague of mine has her PhD defense at 12h :-).
10:04
@anon New Age LaTeX usage.
i.stack.imgur.com what type of site is this?
is it owned by stack exchange?
In the sense that SE bought its usage (which I assume is the case by "commercial"), yes.
oh nice
are you from ucla @anon
10:21
no
what was this link about? math.ucla.edu/~robjohn/math/…
i couldnt undestand what is to be done once the page is open
do you know about your browser's bookmark tab?
iya but apart from that
line number 4 and 5 are latex , i can make that out,
What are you talking about? You click and hold on the blue "render mathjax" link, drag it to your bookmarks bar, and then let go. A bookmark for "render mathjax" will be created, and every time you click it your browser will turn any LaTeX inside dollar signs into the actual symbols. What part of this are you having problems with?
Also, just because someone links to an educational establishment doesn't mean they are affiliated with it. You'll notice the url is for someone named "robjohn," who happens to correspond to that orange mean-square avatar at the top right of the chatroom (currently idle).
haha yeah
so it will only help me to read Latex, and not write it
oh its happening, the dollars signs are converting
thanks man
but no bookmark has been created in my bookmarks bar?
10:39
where did you drag the "render mathjax" to in your browser? what browser do you use?
i dragged it to the address bar, i use chrome
the address bar =/= the bookmarks bar
(not the same thing)
there is no bookmarks bar
or is there?
click the wrench button in the top right, then hover over "Bookmarks >" and a menu will appear. Click "Show Bookmarks bar"
got it
thansk
thanks
 
1 hour later…
12:06
@JonasTeuwen oh, I've missed it :(
@Matt: hello
13:07
Sup @Ilya
Uhm, it's kinda quite in here today, isn't it?
quiet, and there are always quiet periods in the day. in the last week I think I witnessed a 6 hour period of silence.
or maybe that was last week, or whatever. who knows.
13:38
Heya !
Anyone know how I can draw an area expressed by

$1>z>0 \,,\, 0<y<x \,,\, z>x>0$
? =)
that would be a volume, not an area
well, if you fix $z$, then you have an area under a triangle: $(0,0), (z, 0), (z,z)$
14:08
@Ilya Back! Did you ever see a Delft PhD defense?
14:40
Is it the case that $L^{\omega} = L^* \cap \Sigma^{\omega}$?
(in the context of $\omega$-languages)
 
2 hours later…
16:35
hi tb
Hey @Srivatsan looks like you showed up on one of the most inactive days in a while :)
How are you?
Hi @Srivatsan @tb
Hi Kannappan, did you sleep at least a little?
@tb That is not too bad. I have to leave in a few minutes anyway =)
hi Kannappan
A lot more. Actually, there were no classes today, from afternoon, till 6, I had slept enough. @tb
16:37
@Srivatsan I see. Glad to meet you even though it's only gonna be a short meeting
@KannappanSampath great! I'm proud of you
I will continue to drop by every once in a while
@tb Hey, joking, uh?
@Srivatsan Good to hear. I'll have to cut down my presence here again :)
@tb Why, again? So, more people will be on leave from MSE. </3
@tb Ah, frankly, that might not worry me too much :=) .
16:42
@Srivatsan: hi, nice to meet you again
Ilya, hey hi
@Jonas: yes,I've already seen it, what about?
Good to run into you
:) grading exams one more day
@Kan hello
@Ilya Oh nothing :-).
16:42
@tb: hi, nice example, thanks :)
@Ilya Hi!
@Jonas How are the integrals doing?
Maybe it's a good time to mention:
@KannappanSampath I am doing them as we speak.
Computing them I mean.
It's my birthday tomorrow.
nice, we'll bake you a cake
16:44
@Srivatsan Many More Happy returns of the day.
Thanks, Kannappan
So you're going to be old too? Like me.
@Ilya Ah, cake. Super. :)
@Srivatsan: oh, you'll be as old as me! :) Let me send you a list of pills we take in 24 ;)
@KannappanSampath tomorrow, not today. Hide it from him :)
(The cake from TeX.SE will appear tommorrow, here.)
It's not long. Like two hours from now in India. (May I ask you hang around here until then?)
16:47
@Ilya Might be useful. Now I understand what they mean: probably my list of minor complaints with my body has become significantly longer in the last few months
:)
@Srivatsan :)
@KannappanSampath Would like to. But my brother will soon occupy the room, so I can't.
@Srivatsan </3
Hi @Sri : How r u doin
@KannappanSampath hmm, sometimes I do wish I were the elder one. :/
@RajeshD hi Rajesh, how are you?
I am good
16:51
fine...good to see you...are you in the subcontinent or back to US
?
@Srivatsan Like I am in my family. :-)
@KannappanSampath Oh, are you? Do you have any siblings?
@Srivatsan Yes, I have a brother, younger one. :-)
@RajeshD I am in the subcontinent.
Oh good......hot wheather in Chennai ?
16:53
@RajeshD Not very hot yet, but yes.
Thinking of which, I will have to be in Chennai, this summer, in such a hot weather.
How come?
For the SRFP thingie at IMSc. :-)
SRFP: I don't know what this is.
Ah, never saw that. ^
SRFP- Summer Research Fellowship Programme by the Indian Academy of Sciences.
16:56
Nothing. I asked if you are talking about spending your summer at your home in Chennai.
I wasn't sure where your parents stay.
@Srivatsan In Trichy.
Oh cool
Alright, I have to go now. See you guys. Maybe I will be back tomorrow.
See you!
Bye Srivatsan. Have a wonderful day tommorrow. And, here is a small gift I had already given you.
Hi and bye, @Srivatsan!
16:59
Thanks.
Hi @Matt
(The proof about equivalence relation looks good.)
Hi Kannappan!
Thanks : )
Oh dear! 6 stars. Do I have to read this as "Yes, you definitely have to get rid of this image" or do I read this as "Aww cute"?
@MattN Which one do you mean?
17:02
@Srivatsan Bye Srivatsan! Have a nice birthday tomorrow!
@Ilya what do you mean? The Tietze extension?
Hi Matt
@KannappanSampath There's only one with 6 stars at the moment, no? : )
Hi teddy. tuts at teddy
what's up?
You were. All night. </3
@MattN Yes. And, no. I thought you posted some image and it's already gone from the starboard. :-)
17:05
@MattN that's not true... I slept from about 4 to 10, so plenty enough :)
Hmm, by computing a lot of integrals you become better at computing them (no shit Sherlock).
@tb Oh, then I jumped to conclusions (again) : )
@JonasTeuwen Can you also compute infinite sums of sines and cosines? I'm asking because I can't really do that and I want to see how that works.
Compute as in give a formula in terms of known functions and no series?
You can of course define a function... that is your series.
@JonasTeuwen Probably...
So you should specify what you mean with "compute".
So you have stuff like $\sum a_n \cos(n x) + b_n \cos(n x)$?
17:08
I would assume it turns out to be e to the something or some other easy to write down function.
In general: No.
I can of course define the Matt-Jonas function $M(x)$ 8-).
@MattN the problem is that this domain is infested by other sciences, so it's hard to find a reasonable source for it...
I have
$$ \sum_{n = - \infty}^\infty \frac{\sin (\frac{3}{4} \pi n )}{ \pi n} (\cos (- \omega n) + i \sin (- \omega n))$$ : )
@tb Sorry? I don't understand :-).
@MattN The horror!
The Jonas brothers @jonas were you in it ?
17:11
@JonasTeuwen That's what I thought so I looked up the solution. (Rectangle function)
@RajeshD Not sure what they are but yes.
@JonasTeuwen The chat kept on moving upwards. It was intended for Matt
@MattN So you can actually compute that sine right?
@tb Yes. Such as engineering (computer science) and signal processing.
Do you have something against signal processing?
Working on that.
17:12
@JonasTeuwen You should specify what you mean with "compute".
@MattN Give a numerical value.
Now, no fun. I should sleep today, or not attend classes tommorrow. Looking at the consequences of not attending classes, it occurs to me that I must sleep. Bye people.
Then mess a bit with the subseries...
@JonasTeuwen Right. Unfortunately $n$ isn't a constant.
@KannappanSampath Good night ding ding ding ding!
@MattN Sure, but it can only be: $\pm 1, 0, \pm 2^{-\frac12}$.
17:13
I'm new to Galois Theory, trying to pick it up. I'm trying to determine the Galois group of $f(X)=X^n-t$ over $\mathbb{C}(t)$, for $t$ transcendental over $\mathbb{C}$. I think it's obvious that the Galois group of $f$ over $\mathbb{C}$ is cyclic of order $n$, but I'm not sure how to think of the Galois group of $f$ over $\mathbb{C}(t)$.
@KannappanSampath Sleep well!
@KannappanSampath good night!
DOes anyone know of Riff and ROtes?
Hmm, I have a series of hypergeometric series... 8-).
@JonasTeuwen I see what you're saying. Although I get only 4 different values. Thank you!! : )
17:17
I should be able to compute that.
@MattN Which one did I give too much?
$-1$?
I haven't worked out which but I get 3/4 , 6/4 , 2 1/4, 3
Jonas Brothers >>
Let me see if I can manage without a calculator.
17:18
this is a dummy video though
sorry for the distraction....i wasn't aware of the discussion goin on here
6/4 pi maps to -1
Then 1 must be wrong.
Riff and Rotes , anyone, knows or is enthusiastic about, just let me know
I want to say that the Galois group of $f=X^n-t$ over $\mathbb{C}(t)$ is trivial since $1/t^n$ lies in $\mathbb{C}(t)$, as do all of the $n$-th roots of unity. Can someone tell me if I am right?
OTOH I get 0.25 pi $\simeq $ 0.75 pi both map to $\sqrt{2} / 2$.
i feel like i must be making some mistake here, it seems too trivial
17:25
@JonasTeuwen What do you do with $e^{- i \omega n}$?
@STOM : What is riff and rotes ?
@RajeshD its a consice way to write numbers
concise
wait I will just get the link
@RajeshD check this
oh both are same links
@t
@STOM : thanks for the link...i'll go through them....for the moment i need to attend something bbl
17:35
@tb how did you make link out of the word this,
ok @RajeshD no worries
@5T0M use [link text](http://...). See here for more.
By the way: you can edit your recent posts during two minutes by hitting the up arrow or by clicking at the leftmost end and selecting "edit"
very thanks for that @tb
18:07
can anyone give me just a little direction?
I have to go for a while. bbl.
See you later!
18:34
bye everyone,,,,,,,,, have a good night
Ok, I was being very foolish. Obviously C(t) doesn't include any roots of t, so the galois group will be cyclic of order n

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