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20:00
@Hippalectryon Just returned from jogging. Hard days here. I just defined a new class of integrals (being very special for some reasons, unique in the literature).
@Waiting :D
@Mike For instance if you think about it, the figure 8 immersion corresponds to an unknot in S^1 \times R^2
@Hippalectryon Hope to finish an article with them. :-)
but no front projection in the sense of Gompf (or maybe originally Eliashberg) of the unknot has no cusps.
@Waiting As always, send me a link if the article is published :-)
20:03
Arnol'd asked if every knot in S^1 \times R^2 (topological knot that is) can be constructed from such an immersed curve
I am thinking about this question right now quite actively.
@Hippalectryon Sure. Definitely. :-)
hi chat
@Hippalectryon I wish one day my research is so good that you would identify the author even if the paper didn't mention the author. :P
Good for mathematics, not for me (I don't matter, mathematics matters).
A charged metal ball with radius $R$ has the constant potential $V_0$. The potential $V(r)$ is continuous at the surface of the ball and satisfies Laplace's equation in the surrounding space. Determine $V(r)$
@Waiting Well, I'm pretty sure that I'd at the very least think about you upon reading one of your papers :-)
20:15
@PVAL Yeah you're right. My bad.
But the idea is clearly the same.
@Hippalectryon hehe, :P
@Lozansky What have you tried ?
That's a cool question.
@Mike I'm going to delete the following comment quickly
Just email me.
20:16
alright
I'm interested in this discussion so we can just continue there.
Due to spherically symmetry, the solution is $V(r) = -\dfrac{a}{r}+b$. The mean value theorem gives $V_0 = \dfrac{1}{4\pi R^2} \iint_{r=R} \dfrac{-a}{r} + b \: dS \rightarrow- \dfrac{a}{R}+b = V_0$
@Hippalectryon What i wrote
I'm stuck right there
There's a simple answer if you think physics.
I don't want to think physics
@Mike That was the only thing I wanted to share discretely
20:20
Fair enough.
@Lozansky What do you mean you don't want to think physics ? What's the point of doing physics without thinking physics ?
@Lozansky: Odd not wanting to "think physics" when it's physics.
LOL ... Hippa is meme-ing me again.
You can simplify your potential further at any rate.
Boundary conditions!!
Hey @TedShifrin
Hey @Danu
20:22
Almost ready to go? :D
Yeah, I'm almost 85% packed :)
Are you flying from LAX?
No, San Diego to Philly, then to München. ... Looks like I'm gonna get rain in München and in Paris.
@Semiclassical Yeah, I know $V(r) = 0$ when $r\to \infty$
But I can't think of another boundary condition
Aha, @Lozansky. Ergo ...
20:23
Okay... Well the rain/no rain question is really hard to answer in advance so don't despair ;)
Oh wow
That's all you need, @Lozansky.
Yeah I see it now haha
What time will you arrive, if everything flies in time?
9:00, @Danu.
Then customs, train, finding hotel — not checking in 'cuz it's too early ... etc.
20:24
Right. If you want you can come by my office to drop off your stuff, too...
It's really ridiculous — I'm up to 89 upvotes on the silliest answer I ever wrote.
The physics point, to be clear, is that there's one very simple charge config which has a spherical equipotential
I have my "research tutorial" 10-12
And then I have to meet a prof to discuss my planning for my talk in the Morse theory seminar at 1 PM, but that shouldn't take too long (<30 minutes)
Nah, @Danu. That's too complicated. Maybe I can try to find you after I get stuff settled and oriented.
okay
20:26
Unfortunately, I seem to be a bit too far for easy walking to the Gardens or your university.
How's the geometry course going?
Yeah, that's a no-go. But it's just 15 minutes by public transport.
I have to figure out transport eventually. :P
@TedShifrin I'm not teaching, just grading. There's so little to do... Leeb (the prof teaching it) is doing his usual WAY-OVER-YOUR-HEADS style :D
He's doing like
straight up diff-geo
Surfaces just appear as the easiest example :P
20:27
Curves and surfaces the way my notes go would be hard enough for them ...
Namely, a point charge with potential $V(r)=kq/r.$ If you pick $kq=V_0 R$, then you satisfy the boundary condition and you're done
For 2nd-3rd year students, most of which don't want to go on in math, just get their teaching degrees.
Right. And this is a great course for them if you teach it reasonably, do a bit of non-Euclidean geometry.
@TedShifrin yeah... So just 13 people handing in exercises out of 180 by now. So I don't have to do much at all for my money.
@Semiclassical That's cheating :P
20:28
It makes me so sad to see horrid courses and students learning nothing.
The Riemann Surfaces (which I actually am teaching the tutorials for) is fun though!
The prof also doesn't know much about Riemann surfaces so it's kinda funny
I have to make the exercises on my own
I wonder if students said that when I taught Riemann surfaces :P
I mostly just steal them from the book/last year's exercises because I don't feel confident
But I made a nice sheet just now
20:29
Actually, this approach gets a lot of traction for certain problems via the method of image charges
I don't think I had LaTeX the last time I taught Riemann surfaces, so I probably don't have exercises. (There are some in the complex geometry stuff I sent you, but ...)
1. Prove that the automorphisms of CP^1 are the Mobius transformations and use that to determine the automorphisms of CP^1 with some punctures (1,2,3 punctures, and some discussion of the 4 puncture case...)
I found the 4+ puncture situation really interesting
I love the method of image charges
Spent a lot of time thinking about it, @arctictern gave a ton of useful info
It's interesting to think about this "over-determined system"
Well, that's basically what I just did :P
20:30
(since a Mobius transformation is already fixed by giving the image of 3 points)
A single image charge at the center of the sphere
Yeah but it's cool if you do it in E&M problems but not vector calculus problems :P
Arctic found nice examples with 4 punctures where you still get a reasonably big automorphism group (half of the a priori maximum, i.e. the alternating group on 4 elements)
Not at all clear why you don't get non-Möbius automorphism with more than a few punctures.
20:31
I found that you always have at least 1 non-trivial automorphism
@TedShifrin Because it always has to extend to an automorphism of CP^1!
@Hippalectryon I didn't see robjohn around lately.
@Danu Why is that true?
Why is that?
Any automorphism of the complement of a finite number of points extends
On any Riemann surface
That's true in higher complex dimensions, but not in dimension 1.
20:32
Ahh is this just using classification of singularities
Hmm ... ponders
@Waiting Me neither :(
It is true
(it's also an exercise in Forster's book)
@PVAL-inactive yeah I think that's it
you have a bounded holomorphic function or at least 1/ a bounded holomorphic function outside a puncture
Right
20:33
Yeah, I see.
so it extends in a unique way
You just take a punctured disk around a point you took out, see that the preimage is also a punctured disk, and extend
@Lozansky Hey, you're the one who brought up a grounded sphere. if that's not physics...
@PVAL-inactive Right. So for instance for $\Bbb C\setminus\{0,1\}$ you get exactly 6 autormophisms
now I spent some time with arctic thinkign about what if you take out 4 points---how many automorphisms do you get? How does it depend on the choice of points?
@Semiclassical Well the context is in vector calculus, not physics :)
20:35
I continue to bite my thumb at that
Sadly, @Danu, it seems I didn't scan my homeworks from the early years of teaching complex variables.
The permutation $(0,1,\infty,z)\mapsto (z,\infty,1,0)$ always actually works (wlog you start with taking out $0,1,\infty,z$) so you get at least 1 non-trivial automorphism.
The better response is that the image charge approach doesn't work if the potential on the sphere isn't uniform
Right
For instance, upper/lower hemispheres at different potentials
20:36
I don't know how to think about it in general. As I said, arctic used symmetry to find some examples of choices of $z$ where you get a reasonably big group of automorphisms
But I might encounter another problem without the obvious physics analogy
I'm frankly surprised that you always get at least one... I'd intuitively say you shouldn't get any
Anyhow, @Danu, at some point in the mid-morning, I will try to text you and see if my phone actually works in Europe. If not, I'll have other things to worry about, too. :P
@TedShifrin OK. If you have eduroam access, university buildings will work for wifi
even if the phone dun work
BTW @Semiclassical, can you help with a Poisson's equation problem with Neumann boundary? My book doesn't really explain how to solve these
20:38
I have no idea what eduroam access is. The answer is no.
I think it's pretty elementary
eduroam is some kind of unified university wifi network
That's Europe.
EU.
most uni's in western Europe have it and Princeton did too
so I assumed you guys all have it too
Hmm ...
20:38
well, I can give the physics snswer there :p
but I guess I'm wrong
It's a very physicsy question :P
Pwinceton is special
Anyways
I'm a little shocked that the prof of Riemann surfaces decided to completely skip algebraic functions and their Riemann surfaces
He's going straight for the sheaves :D
20:39
Neumann means that the first derivative of potential is specified, so that means you know the electric field strength on the surface
I guess it's better for me since I'm better with sheaves than with algebraic functions.
@Danu Is this a class you are taking?
@Semiclassical do you have a good reference for that method? We used it to calculate the Poisson kernel and the Green function for the ball in $\Bbb R^3$ but it's not very clear to me
or TA ing for?
@PVAL-inactive TAing
20:40
Well, gravitational field in this case @Semiclassical
(and yes I'm in no way capable of doing it properly I guess)
But the electric field at the surface of a conductor is just the local surface charge density
Well, I can TA for you a little bit, @Danu :P
Maybe @ted will nix this recommendation.
but I'd read the sections of Ahlfors on elliptic functions
@TedShifrin You are running off before Monday aren't you? :P
20:41
if you haven't already
LOL, yeah, leaving Monday morning early.
So from that you can use Coulomb's law to reconstruct the field everywhere outside the sphere
Forster does the stuff on doubly-periodic functions, too, I think.
That's electrostatics, of course, but the gravitational version should be very similar
hmmm
20:42
You can do Abel's Theorem for $g=1$ with just the basic residue theorem.
@Semiclassical The question is like "Given a gravitational field $\mathbf{G} = - \nabla \phi$ with $\nabla^2 \phi = \gamma \rho$ where $\gamma$ is a constant and $\rho$is the mass density, determine $\mathbf{G}$ for earth (a sphere with radius $R$ and constant mass density $\rho_0$)"
Now I'm annoyed I didn't scan all my homeworks. So much hard work lost ... :(
@AlessandroCodenotti not off the top of my head, but I could probably construct the formal argument once im at a computer
I guess if he's going into sheaf theory so early
Ah. It's just Gauss's law again, @Lozansky
20:44
@Danu we have eduroam here
@Alessandro: I like Fritz John's basic PDE book. It has that kind of stuff in it.
He'll give sheaf theoretic proofs of RR and RH
which will probably just be for algebraic things
@Semiclassical It is?
@Semiclassical Are you a student?
This sounds like an algebraic curves course
20:45
I did that, too, when I taught RS, @PVAL. But in complex geometry I talked about my favorite proof, Griffiths's proof in terms of geometry of the canonical curve.
more than a Riemann surfaces course.
A lot of hard analysis to prove finiteness of cohomology, etc., @PVAL.
It's not a Neumann problem, really. That'd be if you were only told the behavior on a boundary rather than over the whole volumr
@Semiclassic: Neumann is normal derivative on the boundary.
Right. I'm being careless
It was implicit in the case of a conductor
20:46
Well the one exercise you have to do
is prove the Hurwitz automorphism bound from Riemann Hurwitz
I never did that in my course. There wasn't time.
that was probably my favorite exercise i did in ug.
Too much analysis to do.
@Semiclassical Oh it's Gauss law for Poisson's equation, right?
But, anyways. This is just the gravitational version of a sphere of uniform charge density.
20:47
@TedShifrin Thanks, is it this one?
@Ted Did you not get to Riemann hurwitz?
Yes, @Alessandro. He also discusses the difference between the wave equation in even and odd dimensions. Fascinating stuff.
There shouldn't be any analysis in that proof after that point
It's just some clever elementary number theory.
No, @PVAL. Indeed, some of my students hadn't had algebraic topology yet, as I recall.
So you could do Gauss's law to get the force field and from this get the potential
However, that's overkill here.
20:49
@Alessandro: Huygens' principle.
You're given Poisson's equation with a spherically symmetric density. @Lozansky
But I did show them how to work with linear systems a lot and how to get the addition law on the cubic in different ways, @PVAL.
That tells you a lot about the gravitational potential right off the bat.
Alo, stupid question about Pearson correlation coefficient (wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/…). In shorter form is "-nxy" part inside loop or outside? E-notation without brackets always confuses me....
@TedShifrin Oh I remember doing that as well
20:52
$$\phi(\mathbf{r}') = -\dfrac{1}{4\pi} \iiint_V \dfrac{\rho(\mathbf{r})}{\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{r}'|} \: dV + \dfrac{1}{4\pi} \iint_S (\phi(\mathbf{r}) \dfrac{\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{r}'}{|\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{r}'|^3}+\dfrac{\nabla \phi}{|\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{r}'|}) \cdot \hat{n} \: dS$$
@TedShifrin Just googled it, it's definitely not my cup of tea but it does look interesting
@Ted I really first saw all of this stuff in an AG course taught by Kedlaya out of Hartshorne.
Really fascinating how 2-D and 3-D are different. I talked about that a lot in my applied math course I taught.
Warning: I'm on my phone right now and can't render mathjax
Oh sorry
20:52
which was quite overwhelming at the time.
Yeah, although with all his exercises Hartshorne is actually more concrete than most people realize, @PVAL.
Start from what I said re: Poisson's equation.
What does that tell you about the gravitational potential?
@TedShifrin Hartshorne spends about 1/4 of the main book (outside ch.1 which is a completely different book) talking about curves and 1/4 of the main book talking about surfaces
so it's pretty concrete just also done in lots of generality.
@Semiclassical No idea actually
20:57
Well, actually, I don't have the book any more, @PVAL, but those chapters are the shortest of those 4. :)
@PVAL-inactive Yeah
Is it similar to Laplace's equation with spherical symmetry?
Wait it says $\phi=\phi(r)$
Okay so now I solve the ODE
So the solution is spherically symmetric as well.
Right-o.
What are the boundary conditions?
Keep in mind that all of the mass is inside the sphere
21:00
Equipotential on the surface
@Danu In Canada.
Well, what I'd say is that the potential is continuous at the surface
Right
How do you deal with the potential outside?
Vanishes for $r\to \infty$?
21:02
Well, yes. But there's another thing to be said. Is it the same function inside/outside?
No it's not
The potential has a singular point on the inside
What solution do you obtain on the inside?
Ignoring boundary concerns for now
$\dfrac{\gamma \rho r^2}{6} - \dfrac{c_1}{r} + c_2$
21:06
Yeah. So you've got two solutions to Laplace's equation. Are both of them valid here?
That's Poisson's equation I solved
Yeah, but the first term is the particular solution.
Oh okay yeah
The others solve the homogeneous problem i.e. Laplace.
Sure
21:08
Again: Are both solutions appropriate?
No, only the particular
Or well
Eh, no. We can't exclude them on those grounds. We need boundary conditions
I want to include the $c_2$ as well
But not the $-c_1/r$
@TedShifrin I find it strange that Zach hasn't been on in so long. I hope all is well with him.
Right. The potential presumably shouldn't diverge, since that'd imply that it takes an infinite amount of energy to reach the center of a uniform sphere.
21:11
I'm having trouble formulating the boundary condition for the surface
Ignore that
Ignore what? ;)
I think I can apply Gauss law here
Exactly. Anyways, to formulate the boundary condition we should use continuity.
Okay...
But to use that we need to know what the solution outside is.
21:13
Ah I see what you mean
Right
So, what's the solution? If there's a solution you know is irrelevant, feel free to jgnore it
$-c_1/r + c_2$
Right. Of those two, which is appropriate?
Well boundary conditions demands the second to vanish
(Moving to another room to stop spam)
21:28
X~N(0,1) Y~N(0,1) are independent, what's the distribution of $Z=sqrt(X^2+Y^2)$?
21:50
Does anyone know of a good reference which discusses the classification of absolute values over a number field/ring of integers?
22:08
question I devoted the most time solving today: math.stackexchange.com/questions/2304616/…
22:59
hi

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