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10:01
Heh heh.
While doing convolution we flip one of the functions say $f_2$ and then circular shift it by the amount $\tau$ and place it over $f1$ and then take the inner product of it with $f1$. We do this for different shifts $\tau$ to get $f3$ at diffe with differentrent points...Now lets go to the situation right before taking the (innerproduct/dot product)...different points (in domain) of $f1$ are aligned with different points of $f_2$ due to the flipping and also circular shift........
now consider a point $P$ in (0,1)...and let $f_1$ be $n_1(P)$ times differentiable at $P$ and let the flipped and circular shifted (by $\tau$) version of $f_2$ be $n_2(P)$ times differentiable at $P$...Now I define $n$ equal to minimum value of $n_1(P)+n_2(P)$ $\forall P \in (0,1)$.
@tb
Now $f_3$ is $n$ times differentiable at $\tau$
Wow, I didn't know the zeta function thing was analogous to how they systematized finding differently shaped drums with the same sound!
the minimum is taken over all $P$ in $(0,1)$
Well at least $n$ times differentiable.
I'll write up may be after an hour. : |
10:09
@tb : I guess its exactly $n$ times differentiable
lol, you have company @Kanna
@tb : if there are singularities ( finitely differentiable points) in both the functions being convolved then there will be singularities in the result of the convolution too
How much rep do you need to see deleted answers?
10k
See, he has it right yet deleted the answer!
10:12
my acceptance was retracted:-(
That's because he was "27 seconds late!"
@anon what question was that?
this one that kanna and I were talking about, why?
@anon I couldn't tell what the question was :-)
hey just a quick (maybe silly) question? Zero has NO factors right?
When you're considering only natural numbers?
10:15
Well, it kind of has every number as a factor, doesn't it?
It depends how you define "divides", I think.
What's the context you're working with?
@anon : Is it a good practice to post jpg's of deleted answers by others just because you have the power ?
And why do I feel like I've met a "gideon" on the internet before?
?? @anon lol
10:16
You define a divides b like "there exists a k such that ak = b". Now you can either say $k \neq 0$ or not.
@anon So I'm trying project euler problem 21
If you say $k \neq 0$ then nothing divides zero. If you don't then everything divides zero.
Let d(n) be defined as the sum of proper divisors of n (numbers less than n which divide evenly into n).
If d(a) = b and d(b) = a, where a  b, then a and b are an amicable pair and each of a and b are called amicable numbers.
@Rajesh: (1) It's a png, not a jpg :D (2) Not in general, but there's nothing embarassing about his answer (it's rather trivial) so it's fine here.
10:17
@anon and you get another vote :-)
so now, my program gives me an answer that is off just by one because it considers 1 as a factor of zero.
AHA! There was a "gideon" who was a massive troll on a blog I used to read a few years back.
really?
I agree with you @anon : I just wanted to know what's the usual practice/etiquette ...thanks anyway
@anon blog about what? Never trolled any blog before.
10:20
@gideon: Take a look at The House of Gideon (that's his blog, not the one I read).
@gideon another definition of amicable is that the sums of all the divisors are the same
@robjohn the other one's neat, too, but I do prefer yours if it's any consolation.
@tb : the minimum is taken over all P in (0,1)
@tb It's easier to consider an amicable triplet with this one :-)
@robjohn Oh, I was being amicable, but not talking about amicable stuff...
@RajeshD I understood that, thanks
10:23
Hello
Hi, Ben
@anon Interestingly I was raised by a fanatical pastor father, but NOPE! thats not me! Yikes
@tb Was I interrupting some important stuff?
@tb Ah, sorry, I didn't check to what that was in reference. My bad :-)
@robjohn so then 0 shouldn't be amicable with 1 right?
because 1 isn't a factor of zero
10:24
@BenjaminLim Good morning (or whatever)
Oops, didn't see the ping. : (
@robjohn It's 9.24pm here in canberra
@gideon well what is the sum of the proper divisors of 0?
@BenjaminLim Did you see? We have another study buddy : )
@MattN Who is it?
10:25
Sivaram.
@robjohn should be 0 right?
@BenjaminLim Good evening then :-)
@MattN What about him?
Oh ok.
@robjohn yep considering zero has NO factors I get the right answer.
@MattN Je comprends que tu étudies maintenant à ETH?
10:26
@gideon I'd say it is undefined since every number is a proper divisor of 0, right?
@BenjaminLim Oui mais je ne parle pas le Français : )
Hey @t.b. I had an interesting question that might be in your ballpark, mind if I test-run it by you?
@gideon 3 divides 0
@MattN Oh ok.
@BenjaminLim ...fais tes études...
@anon sure
10:27
@tb Je le faisais mais il y a des choses que je ne comprends pas....
@gideon I guess it depends on how "proper" divisor is defined.
@BenjaminLim But if you'd like to speak French we can try. : )
Suppose that $\{g_n\}_{n=0}^\infty$ is a sequence of functions holomorphic on an open domain $D$, and $$f(z)=\sum_{n=0}^\infty g_n(z)$$ holds on some subdomain $C$, while $f$ itself is holomorphic on all of $D$. If we define $$S_n(z)=\sum_{k=0}^n g_k(z) \qquad \text{and} \qquad s(z)= \big(S_0(z),S_1(z),S_2(z),\dots\big),$$ is there necessarily a Banach limit $\phi$ such that $\phi(s(z))=f(z)$ on all of $D$?
@BenjaminLim It was a minor correction :)
@tb Oh ok you meant I should have said "je comprends que tu fais tes études à"...
oh ok
10:29
The motivation for my question is the 'spooky' phenomenon of certain analytic continuations matching the values you would 'expect' using naive algebraic manipulations of the series.
@MattN Are you into modules yet??
@BenjaminLim Only just about. Why?
Commutative Algebra is basically Module Theory, I swear.
@robjohn I guess according to the problem zero isn't an amicable number
SE is finally on FB here !
10:30
@tb thanks, I do appreciate it (now that I attribute this properly) :-)
@gideon I would exclude it myself.
@anon I am confused as to why if $a$ is an ideal contained in the annihilator of an $A$ - module $M$, then we can view $M$ as an $A/a$ module
@tb This fact is causing huge confusion when I tried to do the problems here: math.stackexchange.com/a/74955/5783
The first problem (Exercise 1) We already know $N + mM \subset M$. Now suppose we want to show the reverse inclusion. Suppose that $x \in M$ is not in the submodule $mM$ (otherwise there is nothing to show). Then in the quotient, $\bar{x} = \bar{\alpha_1}\bar{b_1} + \ldots \bar{\alpha_n}\bar{b_n}$
Where the $\alpha_i \in A/m$
@MattN What are you talking about?
Your first sentence above.
@anon How do you define a Banach limit of a possibly unbounded sequence? A silly example to look at would be to take the domain to be the entire complex plane $f(z) = 1/(1-z)$ and $g_n(z) = z^n$...
But ignore me : )
Ah ok.
@MattN You see I want to know why the $\bar{\alpha_i}$ are elements of $A/m$
10:35
@tb: Crap, I forgot they have to be $\ell^\infty$ sequences. Is there a more general type of summability method that doesn't have any size requirements?
So this may be a trivial question but I am just confused why $\alpha_i$ are elements of $A$?
This seems kinda obvious but still some doubt....
I haven't looked at modules enough : /
Alright thanks @robjohn :) Forward ho to the next problem!
@MattN Are you second year?
@t.b. I suppose we could define "loose" limits to be functionals satisfying the same properties as Banach limits but on all of $\mathbb{R}^\mathbb{N}$. Would such a definition cause problems?
10:38
@BenjaminLim No third already.
or some subspace of $\mathbb{R}^\mathbb{N}$
@MattN Oh ok. I am just in first semester of second year
@BenjaminLim Cool. : ) You're doing this with much more... zeal than me : ) I mean not that I'm not enthusiastic about it but I'm also quite lazy.
@MattN Well I just enrolled to do this as a reading course one on one with a postdoc
And I shy away from pain. : )
@BenjaminLim Ah so you get some help with this? Good. Otherwise you might want to stab yourself in the guts pretty soon.
10:41
@MattN Where I am now practically no student knows commutative algebra except maybe grad students or the profs
@BenjaminLim How I wish someone'd help me this way... First of all, we have a poor turn out of Postdocs this year. :/
@MattN I only meet the supervisor once a week
I think you're cool : )
@MattN Huh??
@MattN ça veut dire quoi?
Well, doing extra-study and stuff : )
10:43
It's not extra study. I told you I approached a guy to do this and he agreed. He says he'll allow me to take it at my own pace.
I'll stab myself in the guts when tensor products come :D
And, all of them analysts. Analysis of several complex variables, Futile attempts and Banach space specialists, operator theory, Quantum Probability. sigh
lol, quantum probability
@anon Well, I'd have to think a bit (and I have never seen anything of the kind). The first reflex would be to try to extend the construction of a Banach limit to $\mathbb{R}^{\mathbb{N}}$. But before going down this road: isn't the reason many such identities hold due to the identity theorem for holomorphic functions?
@BenjaminLim ça veut dire that I'm impressed : )
@MattN And why would that be so?
10:44
@BenjaminLim Yeah, indeed, me too : )
Does anyone here know Quaternionic Fourier series/transform ?
@MattN I don't understand....
@BenjaminLim Never mind. : ) I have to read the CA room, I've been meaning to do that ever since I got up this morning but this chat has been a big help in procrastinating : )
@RajeshD Come and ask one of those postdocs in my place. They'd know.
:3777900 this. I was addressing your motivation in my second sentence.
10:46
@MattN Impressed that I'm willing to stab myself in the guts?
@BenjaminLim Yes!!! (although not literally stab in the guts!)
@Kanna : I'll surely...when i come to B'lore......do you have any links to their webpages/emails
How does the identity theorem relate to something like x=1+2+4+8+16+... => 2x=x-1 => x=-1? I mean, there's an obvious p-adic interpretation, but different series don't have such an interpretation.
@MattN Well I was only interested in it.......Honestly my degree in my university demands that one maintains 80% average in order to stay in it, if I were really the type interested in marks I would forget doing AC at all.
I'm equally impressed by Kannappan. Just for the record. Because he's 17 and already doing advanced stuff.
10:47
@MattN Tu as quel âge?
@RajeshD Well, none of them maintain a homepage. : D
I suppose you could just say it's a carry-over from y=1+x+..., xy=y-1 but that doesn't satisfy me...
@BenjaminLim C'est un secret : )
dis-moi en français
10:49
One does not simply not reveal one's age to Ben Lim....
What's going to happen?
@anon Ah, now I see what you mean. Have you ever looked into Ramanujan summation?
@BenjaminLim Google Translates, brother. : D
@MattN Je vais t'égorger...
@BenjaminLim If this weren't the math chat, I'd suggest posting a diophantine equation...
10:50
@KannappanSampath Sorry for speaking in a foreign language
@tb Vous dîtes n'importe quoi?????
@MattN I just used a word from the french national anthem :D
Oh. I see : )
@SivaramAmbikasaran Regarding your questions about choosing finitely many elements and the axiom of choice: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/36?m=3773058#3773058
@Benjamin : just tell us what language it is ?
@RajeshD It's french.
ok
"You say anything"
10:54
Well, let's follow chat rules. English is the official language of the room. If Asaf has a point, let him make about this.
@MattN Right.
@RajeshD what you say doesn't make sense is what this sentence is trying to convey
@Ben : merci beaucoup
@RajeshD Btw I am not french :D
@KannappanSampath You speak tamil and english? Konkani? Hindi?
@tb : do you mean the earlier sentence you mentioned ?
10:55
What Ben said to me.
@BenjaminLim Hindi a bit. : D
@SivaramAmbikasaran Also picking infinitely many elements from $(0,1)$, since we know that $(0,1)$ has more than countably many elements we can choose an arbitrary subset of size $\aleph_0$. This still does not require the axiom of choice since we only chose from one set. (@Kannappan, this is relevant to you as well regarding what you guys discussed in the CA room).
its the google translation @tb blame is on it
@AsafKaragila You know I gave you write access to CA.
@MattN Well, I do my best to avoid joining many rooms... I don't really know why.
10:57
@RajeshD that's why I provided a translation service backed up with a little bit of intelligence :)
I guess I do my best to follow closely every conversation in any room I frequent. I prefer not to frequent many rooms as it would take too much of my time... :-)
@MattN We should call it AC because that's what ArXiv calls it...
@AsafKaragila Oh, I see. I thought making infinite number of choices required AC.
CA is reserved for classical analysis for ODEs
@BenjaminLim AC = Algebra Commutative ?
10:58
@KannappanSampath Well yes. However this can be encoded into one choice, without the axiom of choice.
Well no but it's just called AC because CA is for classical analysis already
@AsafKaragila Can you say a bit more here, please? (on the remark about one choice!)
Then how would you abbreviate The Axiom of Choice?
AC as well there's the problem now
@KannappanSampath I'm around, but a bit busy. Just ping me and I'll notice your message.
11:00
While i am chatting here I am also listening to video lectures by Gilbert Strang on Linear Algebra
@AsafKaragila the axiom of choice isn't a respectable ArXiV subject area
@RajeshD That is the best way to make yourself inefficient. : D
Hmm.....yes....and also darn confusing
@KannappanSampath We know that $|(0,1)|=2^{\aleph_0}>\aleph_0$. This means that there is a countable subset of $(0,1)$ is true even without the axiom of choice. So now we only need to choose one element from the nonempty set $\{A\subseteq (0,1)\mid A\text{ countable}\}$.
thats why i am off from here for a while ........bye
11:02
@AsafKaragila Ah! makes more sense. Thank you.
@AsafKaragila Why not just write $\{1/(n+1)\,:\,n \in \mathbb{N}\}$? :)
@tb Well, they might want a different countable subset. Ask them... not me! :-)
Now I have : )
But hey, saying something is "obvious" sounds oh so cool...
It adds like +5 on your coolness scale.
Using "trivial" even adds +10.
Causing your coolness to exceed the scale of 10 max coolness unless you had zero to begin with.
11:09
That's how an $S^3$ becomes not obvious.
I am torn between which one to upvote.
Didn't Feynman write something about that?
@tb Too subtle for me. Can you explain?
@MattN before the name change this was user 3sphere
But this is obviously not true as stated
Oh. : )
11:12
He was having a go at mathematicians, for not being physicists. His argument was that since mathematicians, after proving something, would always say "it's obvious"; mathematicians can therefore only prove obvious things.
@DavidWallace replace obvious by trivial. It's in "a different box of tools".
Sorry, you're quite right.
Survey : What's your OS ?
But of course, if I had quoted it correctly, it wouldn't have been pertinent to the discussion :-)
Windows 7 Pro
11:15
I am currently touching two computers. Win7 home and WinXP Pro.
@DavidWallace I happen to know that because I used an excerpt from that story in a talk on the Banach-Tarski paradox. shudder two things I wouldn't do anymore: quote Feynman and give a public talk on BT...
Windows 7 Home Premium.
Why?
(Will be Ubuntu in 3 weeks)
BT, Platonic Solids, pictures by Escher and Fermat's last theorem should be banned from popular maths. Too cliché
As is Feynman
11:18
Riemann Hypothesis, Pythagoras Theorem. No?
I believe it was also in "Surely you're joking Mr Feynman". Which is something of a classic, whether you like the man or not.
@DavidWallace Sure, "A Different Box of Tools" is a chapter of Surely you're joking...
The more I open my mouth, the stupider I appear.
4
Hah, missed that Matt's (removed).
It wasn't interesting.
11:21
Oh come on folks, that didn't deserve stars!
I have just now enabled desktop notifications for chat....some testing Plz
@RajeshD there
@RajeshD Heya!
fine thanks they are too small
especially in my 1080p
I'm soo distracted o_0
11:23
@MattN Given that you like to be entertained, there are worse entries to have on this list.
W'll make space for you @Matt : Plz continue your discussion
@tb For example?
@DavidWallace I definitely agree with the assessment. The problem with those is that they appear in every other popular math talk/text you come across.
@MattN Flatland, for instance
in other words, they're part of our culture.
Oh, I thought some books you just have to have read.
Maybe I should not read that then.
11:27
No, I'd say Flatland is worth reading. But only once.
Rota and his book, well written, I enjoyed it.
What is a 'literal embedding' in terms of logical structures?
That sounds like something that would show up on linguistics.SE.
Was that ^ for me?
Literal embeddings of books you just have to have read?
11:30
Ok, what is `a literal' in FOL?
Literal in predicate logic is either a variable or a negation of a variable.
Is there any justification for the "But" at the beginning of the third sentence?
@MattN looks like the author thought that speaking of "time and frequency domains" make people think of continuous inputs.
But I don't really see why the "But"
Exactly. Me neither.
I think it's ... "you can do this to a function, but not any old function"
It would make sense without the "but" though.
Reading a text with mixed in random words makes it a pain in the neck to read.
I'm going to delete it.
11:36
But that's the nature of wikipedia. Random people write random words.
@MattN Maybe you should change it to "well-but"
: )
Wow, I get a medal! I just made millions of peoples' lives less painful. That feels so good.
^exaggeration.
But seeing as I always exaggerate I have to always exaggerate.
: )
as you do right now :)
Exactly. : ) It's a pun inside a pun...
@tb or "but ummm..."
11:39
An entire pun-babushka...
If you were any more hyperbolic you'd have extra curled-up dimensions.
"In order to understand recursion, one must first understand recursion."
^Also not so funny but related to a pun in a pun in a...
: / Bah, kill those integrals.
Good night all.
@DavidWallace Nighty night!
11:44
Good night!
Now he's going to cry himself to sleep for getting four stars...
"The point of indescribable cardinals is that they are characterized by some degree of uncharacterizability" - Kanamori and Magador
Kanna: Do you really need a whole \quad between your dx and dy? I would just use a \, or \; at most. :)
@anon Hah, yes!
But, I am already giving up on them. Only thing that makes me feel good is someone has added me back on G+.
I missed the ship. No point now.
any of you guys on FB if i may ask
11:51
I deleted FB account long long ago so long ago.
@RajeshD No. But some of us use cave paintings. --->
what is the arrow indicating ? @Matt
I prefer homing pigeons for communication. They have like a double purpose: you can also have them for dinner.
I have fake accounts on FB. Only remember a couple of them, and I only used them to register for other things.
11:55
Let me know the funda behind not using FB so that i'll be convinced to delete my account too
@anon : lol
Here too you are having a fake account @anon !
No, this isn't fake, it's just not personally identifiable. FB requires real names, so an alias like "Carter Living" is fake (when that's not really my name).
They can require all they like.
:)
@anon : Yes Mr. Bourne !
you are ultimate
That's Michael Kane to you, Rajesh.
(you've seen the first movie, right?)
I've seen that trilogy half a dozen times, no joke.
12:01
Time to kill those integrals, in three minutes, I am going to revive that post. : )
What integrals?
@JonasTeuwen Ah, foolish ones. Much below your esteem.
Why are you sad, @Jonas? I said those integrals were so silly, you should not spend time thinking about them?
Yeah you seem to have strange fantasies....but not me....i never understood the first part hence i didn't go for the later ones....anyway i enjoyed the movie
I like Matrix though
@anon
12:05
"Where are you right now?"
"I'm sitting in my office right now."
"I doubt that."
"Why would you doubt that?"
"If you were we'd be having this conversation face to face." *Click*.
yeah
Whenever I see a cat on the street, it reminds me of Matrix
@KannappanSampath But neither should you! 8-).
@Jonas had a real go at an integral lately
@JonasTeuwen Well, yes. : )
@Kanna : I heard a talk that you are an expert at killing Integrals...sometime in the chatroom when you were not there
12:09
@RajeshD Yes. I am, (sorry for self proclamation.) when I am not lazy.
I'm going to look up their name and IP and then hunt down and hurt them.
@Kanna : then you might find this one amusing
@RajeshD Will take a look. : D
@Kanna : but beware this one seemed to be open problem to me...as i did not find it books...they just stopped at Jordan's and Dini's test without any comments on necessary conditions
@MattN well the magic world of copy-paste :)
12:17
@tb @Matt : From my experience with signal processing i can tell this article on DTFT is vey louzy
I think this Wikipedia entry is terrible.
Beat me to it.
Two cases down. One to go.
I am very embarrassed to see a lousy article on signal processing concept in Wikipedia
12:23
Grr. Integrals evaluate to a wrong number. :/
The problem with long answers is that unless you're talking about something interesting, nobody will read it.
@anon : ???
what were you refering to
@KannappanSampath It's the final countdown!
Kanna's deleted-but-still-in-revision answer in particular, the whole of MSE in general.
@anon: This is shameful that I was about to get that specialist badge yesterday, but at the end you got it.
12:27
Ha ha.
lol, 99 votes.
There's your real-analysis badge for you, Asaf.
12:42
What exactly does it mean? Every occurrence of "series" will be replaced with "sequences-and-series"?
Yes, I believe so.
Ah, no. It says "in the future".
So what exactly does it do?
If someone types "series" it will be turned into "seq-and-series"?
@MattN Whenever someone wants to tag a question with (series) it will be tagged (sequences-and-series). The tag (series) does not exist but gets re-invented over and over again.
Great. Voted.
: )
@MattN there
12:48
: ) munch
Ehh ... What's up Doc?
Hi Skullpatrol
Hi, Teddy.
@anon There's not much point then, in my answer?
Well, if you've come this far...
you might as well get it done with, unless it's frying you. Otherwise, just pick and choose your battles. :)
12:54
That was full of figuratives and I'm so good, I'd understand while you're still typing them in. : /
lol, some guy was calling a matrix (singular) "matrice," no doubt because he just subtracted the "s" off of "matrices."
@anon Congratulations. You've began Armageddon. The first seal is broken! Huzzah! Six more seals and then we all have to dance the danse macabre or play chess with the grim ripper.
People, what's happening?
@anon or OP is Italian...
The grim ripper? Did he have hellfire chilli and a traumatic childhood or something?
Italians use "matrice"?
12:57
Or French people
@anon Why did I write "ripper" when it is so obvious I meant "reaper"?? :|
@tb How about German people?
Anyway, I mean this guy.
@Skullpatrol If they happen to talk in French or Italian, they might. It's Matrix in German

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