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04:00
@TheGreatDuck What?
@AkivaWeinberger look at the name on that thing. You didn't need to connect this to minecraft. Spreading tiles along grids like the infections is kind of mah thing.
different rules but meh :p
that's just making the operation depend on the quantity of adjacent items rather than just being triggered by only one being adjacent
Note to self: consider adding that sort of capability for locks
Minecraft water isn't really triggered by only one adjacent. Sort of.
i know that
i meant that spreading tiles is highly relevant to what i have done in the past
(everything in that thingy is done by things being adjacent)
if water sits next to lava it dries up
if grass if by fire it burns down
etc
anyways I got no clue really
04:05
Did you try banging your head on the table?
that usually works for me.
Now I've got this image of multiple demolished tables in your house
each one done in by a hit with the head
04:06
you must have a head with the shape of a corner dented into it
every cell becomes a larger cell
any two by two configuration becomes a 2 x 2 cell
yeah
ah I think i see it now
to cover a grid you need one cell in every row and column
"Sudoku"
:-)
Not necessarily:
04:09
@TheGreatDuck You more or less stated what we want to prove...
Consider coloring the square like a chessboard (with the bottom-right square colored white)
actually it would be trivial to prove that if a row or column does not contain a square than none of that row or column can be infected
Now infect the white squares on the right and top sides.
That's eight, and it infects the whole board, but it only uses five rows and columns.
04:10
ah wait, you can make more than a "larger cell"... rip nvm that idea.
$\begin{matrix}O&&O&&O&&O&\\ &&&&&&&O\\&&&&&&&\\ &&&&&&&O\\&&&&&&&\\ &&&&&&&O\\&&&&&&&\\ &&&&&&&O\end{matrix}$
Like that ^
wait a second!
my conjecture has a counterexample!
5*5 but with the corners infected
only 4 are infected but the entire board will be infected
@AkivaWeinberger right?
@TheGreatDuck No new squares will get infected…
What square bordered two of your infected squares?
04:14
the middle squares of each row and column will be infected
then the single middle square
there's only 1 space between each corner?
…Are you thinking of 3x3? @TheGreatDuck
wait, fuck, neighbors share an edge?
not a corner?
@Dair Yeah
04:14
well i've been thinking about this wrong the whole fucking time.
fu*****
sorry
There's three spaces between each corner on a 5x5.
i think the total number of infected squares consist all values between 7-49
no more no less
i conjecture that it cannot exceed 49
@AkivaWeinberger I give up
induction seems logical but I just cannot figure it out rigorously
it seems like it is the result of a sequence of porpositions
04:21
@TheGreatDuck No you don't keep at it. You spent like an hour on this lol.
ugh
fine i wont go get my stuff done
get your stuff done, then get back to working on this. don't give up lol.
Faceplant onto your bed, but instead of sleeping, think about this problem
That's what I do
hmmm
it's intriguing but I feel inequipped
Maybe that's why I haven't solved #7 yet
(or #4)
04:24
Now I can't stop thinking of Akiva's house being filled with broken beds...
@Dair everyone does that so by that reasoning we are a planet of broken beds
I'm not that heavy what the hell
I think I'm a pretty decent weight actually
lol
@Dair i am reporting that comment. I apologize heavily but that is disgusting.
If you break a king-size mattress is that regicide
@TheGreatDuck Fine, I have removed it.
04:28
thanks
not trying to be rude but this is a kid-friendly site
i mean... intelligent kids.
I mean I've seen people use swear words but ok, I guess that is where the line is crossed I guess haha.
honestly
This is a kid-friendly site that talks about cohomology on a regular basis
I've primarily seen the swear words being propogated by children
(Hm, is there a such thing as cohomotopy, I wonder…)
04:30
In mathematics, particularly algebraic topology, cohomotopy sets are particular contravariant functors from the category of pointed topological spaces and point-preserving continuous maps to the category of sets and functions. They are dual to the homotopy groups, but less studied. == Overview == The p-th cohomotopy set of a pointed topological space X is defined by π p(X) = [X,S p] the set of pointed homotopy classes of continuous mappings from X to the p-sphere S p. For p=1 this set has an abelian group structure, and, provided X is a CW-complex, is isomorphic to the first cohomology group H1...
most classmates I've seen don't swear at all
anyways
I am stuck to the wall on this problem
i know why but I cannot think of this 9 letter word
1. Access to the Services [...] Subscriber certifies to Stack Exchange that Subscriber is an individual (i.e., not a corporate entity) at least 13 years of age. No one under the age of 13 may provide any personal information to or on Stack Exchange (including, for example, a name, address, telephone number or email address).
@EricStucky anyone under the age of 18 is a kid
@TheGreatDuck In class? Lmao, where do you go to school? People at my hs swore all the time.
@Dair how old do you think I am?
I'm in college bruh.
04:32
Perhaps this is why you're so dogmatic about what counts as a kid :P
yeah
@EricStucky you knew I was in college, right?
not gonna lie your profile pic makes me think you're in hs. lol.
no, but I refuse to say more on the matter.
I'm in high school
although mine probably does too
04:33
@EricStucky O.O
@Dair: indiedb.com/games/block-builder shameless self-promotion is shameless
my avatar is in that list somewhere
:p
im going to take a shower and then maybe head to bed
@EricStucky the fact that you thought I was in high school is certainly intriguing. I've taken differential equations, lol.
that should've been a clear sign. XD
@Dair Are you Israeli by any chance? I just wonder because Yair ("ya-EAR") is an Israeli name and your username is similar
@Akiva No, I'm not Israeli. Dair is short for Down-Air.
@EricStucky any thoughts on number 3? people.cs.uchicago.edu/~laci/REU12/puzzles.pdf
Oh, so it's pronounced "dare"?
yeah.
04:36
ah-kee-va, right?
(mine has really obvious pronunciation)
Accent on the second syllable
yeah
*emphasis
Same thing
04:37
depends on the language
Accent, stress, and emphasis are the same (in English, at least)
In what languages would they be different?
in some cases an accent indicates an actual roll of the tongue or distortion of the sound
i dont know. I just read that somewhere. XD
That sounds weird
04:38
accent to me sounds like an accent
as in a french accent
bonjour
My name is interesting in that most Hebrew names ending in "-a" are feminine, but mine is masculine.
(I'm male)
@AkivaWeinberger just to help me out can i at least have the first letter of your word (I intend to go down a much more rigorous route with my attempt)
you're hebrew?
…That might actually give too much away.
@TheGreatDuck I'm Jewish, yeah.
The name is technically Aramaic, not Hebrew, actually
as in race/country of origin or religion?
but they're related
(Aramaic is not to be confused with Arabic)
04:40
(I'm not racist or anything like that. It's just that "Jewish" can be vague at times)
@TheGreatDuck Ethnically, I'm an Ashkenazi Jew. I'm also Jewish by religion
ah ok
neat
Both of my grandmothers (and neither or my grandfathers) were born in America, though
neat
alright then
what's the last letter?
Talk to me tomorrow, I might be more responsive then
04:42
alrighty
Besides, it's like 12:42am here, I should sleep at some point
I'll think about it until theb
@AkivaWeinberger btw, how coincidental that you brought up the REU thing.
going to bed at 12:42, clearly still in hs. :p
@TheGreatDuck Why coincidental?
@Dair It's summer. I'm 21. Also, I'm not going to bed so much as going in my bedroom and then lying in my bed for 4-6 hours watching youtube videos until I fall asleep of extreme tiredness.
@AkivaWeinberger I'm in a different section of the REU program. It's actually a nationwide thing.
04:45
Huh, cool.
the math section definitely looks intense
considering I could've actually applied for the math section, I can say with a decent opinion that that looks intense
did you apply to a CS REU?
:p
perhaps
@Dair why do you ask?
just wondering.
fair enough
i mean not that ours isn't intense
it's just that the math one looks like it is intense in a different sense
granted, I can see how that would be feasible over a week period.
:p
proofs are certainly fun
anyway I'm heading out
04:51
cya.
i should probably go too. cya guys.
@Dair granted, right now I don't tend to stay up late. That's mostly during the semesters when it's not as rough.
right now I am definitely busy most of the day
 
1 hour later…
06:20
Why this is closed as too broad, when very similar questions (with different goals) are not, eg: This ?
in Math Mods' Office, 7 mins ago, by Alex K Chen
One needs such a list when one has to explain to a general public why deep and difficult mathematics has an impact on our everyday life. This question is not so much about puzzles. Why it is put on hold is beyond me. This was an act in Trump style. — Christian Blatter 18 hours ago
 
1 hour later…
07:38
Is it possible to vote for an edit to be removed ?
Hi Dami
08:34
@Daminark
>>To: Graduate Students and Faculty
From: Michele Rasmussen, Dean of Students in the University
Subject: Update on Graduate Student Unionization
Date: May 19, 2017

>>Yesterday the Chicago regional office of the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) granted the University’s request for a hearing to present evidence supporting our position that University of Chicago graduate students are students, not employees under federal labor law. It also granted a hearing on whether GSU/Illinois Federation of Teachers (IFT), American Federation of Teachers (AFT) and the American Association o
4
@Astyx What do you mean by "vote for an edit to be removed"? If there is some reason for doing that, you can rollback the post to some of the previous versions. I am not sure whether there is some minimal reputation for rollbacks - but even if you can't rollback, you could simply edit the post to get it to the previous form.
However, this should be done only if the edit was for some incorrect. You can find examples of several rollbacks in the revision history of the question linked here: User defacing their question.
@Mike I've seen a lot of talk from anti-union people that we need discussion on the potentially negative effects of graduate student employee unionization and yet never an anti-union argument not made in bad faith :/
infuriating
08:53
@MartinSleziak Yes, I was the rollback option afterwards, thanks. The edit I was talking about made use of bad quantifiers which made the statements wrong.
 
1 hour later…
10:03
If we have two topological spaces $X,Y$, can any collection of group morphisms $f_{*,i}:\pi_i(X)\to \pi_i(Y)$ be realised as the induced map of some continious map $f:X\to Y$?
10:54
Is this true for a single morphism $\pi_1(X)\to\pi_1(Y)$?
4
Q: Realizing homomorphisms between fundamental groups

William of BaskervilleLet $X,Y$ be compact connected manifolds and $\varphi\colon\pi_1(X)\to\pi_1(Y)$ be a homomorphism between their fundamental groups. Under what conditions on $X$, $Y$ and $\varphi$ is it true that $\varphi$ is the homomorphism induced by an appropriate continuous map $f\colon X\to Y$?

$\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} 2^{-n^{2}} = ?$
any help!
11:25
@BAYMAX Mathematica says: 1/2 (-1 + EllipticTheta[3, 0, 1/2])
12:16
@Alessandro @s.harp @Eric If $X$ is a connected CW complex and $Y$ is a $K(G, 1)$ every map $\pi_1(X) \to \pi_1(Y)$ comes from a map $X \to Y$.
What's a $K(G,1)$?
It's a space with $\pi_1= G$ and contractible universal cover.
(These are unique upto homotopy equivalence for a fixed $G$)
Ah, I see. Does that exist for every $G$?
Yup.
Most surfaces are K(G, 1), because their universal cover is either the plane or the upper half plane.
actually I'm trying to come up with an example where a morphism $\pi_1(X) \to \pi_1(Y)$ is not induced from a map $X \to Y$. i wonder why i never thought about this before
Interesting! I guess that the usual construction with a 2-complex to show that every group is the funndamental group of some space produces spaces with ugly covers?
12:29
What kind of continuity that describe the rotation of this thing is this:
It sometimes amaze me how things can keep rotating without falling off when intuition said it might either fall off or get stuck because there's a straight edge in the geometry
there's a nontrivial map $H_1(K) \to H_1(\Bbb{RP}^2)$ (kill off the 1st component) where K is the klein bottle and that's not induced from any map K --> RP^2 because they are all 0 on fundamental group ($\pi_1(K)$ has no torsion). But that's not what I want.
Functionally the same as a "radial gear" whoose teeth move inwards at a slow pace each turn
@AlessandroCodenotti Well, the usual presentation complex construction is not sufficient but you can modify it to produce one with contractible universal cover.
Now, can the converse happen, an arrangement of gear belt so that the collective motion is equivalent to a clockwise rotating gear at any point of contact
Indeed, the presentation complex of G is the 2-skeleton of K(G, 1).
This is explicitly worked out in Hatcher 2.B(?)
12:37
I really need to convince @Daminark to work on Hatcher's together through the summer :P
ok@MatsGranvik
12:49
hello, I am having some trouble with the pumping lemma for regular languages, is anyone familiar with it?
13:00
I am a bit @Devilius
I actually just solved my problem
thank you though
I've been stuck on it since last night
but sleeping on it must have solved it
Haha no problem, sorry I wasn't there earlier
no worries
Out of curiosity, what was it ?
I had to prove that the language \{ w \in {a,b}^*: w^R \neq w \} was not regular
but couldn't figure out how to do it without setting conditions on |y|
then figured the language a^{m-1}ba^{m} should work: no matter how I pick the y, I will always end up removing the b (correct?)
13:03
You can make Latex work by putting $ signs around those formulae
And there's a link to making it work on your browser in the chat desription on the top right :)
(and you can edit your messages if you do it soon enough)
What's R ?
reverse
so, the language $ \{ w \in \{a,b\}^*: w^R \neq w \}$
I don't agree with your counterexample (if I understood correctly)
Why would it remove the b ?
well, if I understand correctly, the y would be b, or ab, or aab, etc
ah, no
It could simply be a
(I guess by y you mean the repeating sequence)
$|xy| \leq m $
ok
well, I don't see how to do it then
without ever setting conditions on |y|
other than $|y| \geq 1$
13:08
Let me think about it
If it was regular its complementary would be regular
So consider $a^nba^n$
does this work "both" ways, as in if a language is not regular, its complementary is also logically not regular?
Yes, this is clear once you know that a language is regular iff there a finite deterministic automata that recognizes it (not sure about terminology in english)
that is correct terminology
From this automata you switch which states are the final ones and you get a finite deterministic automata that recognizes the complementary language
This being said, if you consider $a^nba^n$, you can make $n$ sufficiently large so that there a repeating pattern for $a^n$
And you end up with $a^{n+k}ba^n$ where $k\gt0$
And that's a contradiction
alright
I didn't realise you could use the complement to prove the regularity of a language
thank you very much
13:14
Glad to help
How to tackle the following two fractions in MathJax?
What do you mean ?
Could I use oblique division sign?
especialli for quite complicated fractions?
$x = {a+b\over c-d} = (a+b)/(c-d)$ ?
Hi Semi
13:25
Why the stars ?
Yeah, please don't :)
:37547389
OK
And remove them while you can please
Did
Only 1 kept starred to get it back easily.
sure, that's reasonable.
In general try to only star things that are "relevant" to other people as well
2
:P starred this one :P dont mind . reason is in that statement.
For inverse-sine could I use sin^{-1} ? or the standard method is something else?
If you mean $\arcsin$, $\sin^{-1}$ is conventionnal too
13:41
Thank you for another method
Yes my sin^{-1} was synonymous with your arcsine en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse_trigonometric_functions however i was less familiar with it. Whatever; MathJax is printing them differently.
Could I use a hyperlink to a mathjax character or phrase?
for say a wikipedia link to Pye, or the Rydberg constant, or for say a phrase or a portion of equation; or a symbol such as cyclic integration or partial differentiation?
14:16
@Always: The entire transcripts of each MSE chat room are saved permanently. If you click on the space just to the right of a given message (in the grey box) you'll get a little pop-up box. The first line of that box will say "posted X minutes ago — permalink". If you click the 'permalink' bit, you will get an html link that you can save to immediately find that message in the transcript.
As other people have said, you should not use stars for that purpose. First of all it eats up space in the star board. Secondly it's not very effective for this room, because most starred messages will fall off the star board within 48 hours.
@EricStucky Maybe you meant small arrow sign? Yes i forgot to use it, sorry for that.
No, I did not.
I did mean 'left' >.<
#directionallychallenged
Hi @EricStucky
g'morning Ast
haha
@EricStucky Its ok.
14:20
What's up ? :)
blogging, as usual
how about you?
Enjoying my sunday afternoon
@EricStucky my question was about could I use hyperlink in MATHJAX. not chat transcript.
...yes
I obviously wasn't talking about that
Hi @Akiva, would you happen to know an answer to this question ?
14:23
I don't know if you can do it in MathJax. You can do it on a local LaTeX client.
So presumably if you import the right package you can do it in MathJax also
14:33
Yeah
*Heya
@Astyx It has to be injective? I wouldn't be surprised if that were an open problem…
Does the following sentence make sense? $\mathsc{Z} = \{ z \colon f(z) = 0 \ , \, |z_1| \leq |z_2| \leq \cdots \}$
Neither would I. I thought I would ask you because I have no idea. A proof would greatly interrest me
mathscr, presumably, N3b?
And also: no.
:37547999
14:38
what are the $z_1, z_2,$ etc.
(? I can't do anything with that link, neb)
@EricStucky Yeah, seems that is not defined in MathJax. Eh $z = \{z_k\}_{k=1}^\infty$
Okay, then sure it makes sense, assuming that $f$ acts on the relevant space.
Yeah $f \in L^p(0,2\pi)$. I am just unsure on how do denote the "ordered" set of zeroes of a function $f$. The notation seems funky to say the least.
Yeah, okay, what you've described isn't that.
^ Is what I have so far, but I need the zeroes to be ordered such that $|z_1| \leq |z_2| \leq \cdots$, but then the notation just gets funky :p
14:45
I don't see any reason for introducing notation: just give $\mathscr Z$ the poset structure induced by $|\cdot|:\Bbb D\to[0,1]$, take a fixed linear extension, and declare that, if possible, you denote the smallest element by $z_1$, the next by $z_2$, and so on.
Or, you can just ignore the formalities and just write what you mean >.<
i.e., the sentence you just said
(with some care, of course, to make sure and/or assume that such an ordering is possible)
Yeh, its part of my thesis so I guess some formalities is required >.<
Eh... I bet your advisor would tell you differently :)
He just told me that $\mathscr Z$ is not a set as it's elements are not unique
o.O that's not how sets work...
14:50
The standard notation for sequences is horrible.
also that ^
$\{a_n:n\in\Bbb N\}$ has no right being a *sequence. $(a_n)_{n\in\Bbb N}$ is so much better.
A sequence you mean
no right being a sequence, I hope :P
Or $(a_n)_{n=0}^\infty$ or $(a_n:n\in\Bbb N)$, though I don't know how standard those are.
14:51
damn, ninja'd
Derp, fixed
$(a_n)_{n\in \Bbb N} \in \Bbb R^{\Bbb N}$
Gotta love formal notations
Honestly the $A^B$ notation is just plain genius: gold star to whoever thought of this.
Who was it that standardised this notation actually ?
In any case, given a finite ordered set (or perhaps also a set with order type $\omega$) $~A$, how do you write the sequence consisting of the elements of $A$ in increasing order?
Well, we can say: "Let $\mathscr Z(f)$ be the sequence consisting of the elements of $\{z\in\Bbb D:f(z)=0\}$ in increasing order."
14:54
You can't with $\omega$ (consider $\{{1\over n}, n\in \Bbb N\}$)
Maybe doing it in prose is the best.
And yeah probably prose is best
@Astyx That's not order type $\omega$, that's order type $\omega^*$
(or $^*\omega$ or however the notation goes)
Oh my bad
I am just annoyed i need to specify what increasing means everytime
14:55
If you really want something compact, say like "the increasing bijection" or something as such
$\omega$ means you can biject it with the natural numbers with an increasing function
@N3buchadnezzar Increasing order of magnitude, right? What if two elements have the same magnitude?
Yeah
Well its greater or equal, meaning a non-decreasing sequence I guess
Right, but which one do you put first?
Say $f=x^2-1$, will $\mathscr Z(f)$ be $(-1,1)$ or $(1,-1)$?

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