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16:00
every continuous function $[0,\omega_1)\to\Bbb R$ is bounded but $[0,\omega_1)$ isn't compact
interesting
it's first countable but not separable and not second countable
There's surely more stuff I forgot
@AlessandroCodenotti do you have a positive example for that?
$\{[0,\alpha]:\alpha<\omega_1\}$ is an open cover with no finite subcover
I mean
spaces which are sequentially compact and compact
16:04
every compact metric space
:o
I have to go for a while, I'll be back later
bye
I have a question regarding an answer to a old topic. math.stackexchange.com/questions/650789/…
I'm not sure what's going on in the <= part of the proof
Anyone care to put their words on it?
Ah.
Since $f(A) \subseteq A$, we have $\color{#C00}{f^{-1}}(f(A)) \subseteq \color{#C00}{f^{-1}}(A)$
The left side is just $A$.
16:22
Right, as $f^{-1}(A)=A$
So you effectively have $A \subseteq f^{-1}(A) \land f^{-1}(A) \subseteq A$
@Sirmimer Oh no no, we have to prove that thing assuming that the thing given on the right is true.
oh yeah sorry. I was thinking of the other way.
Let me just let what you wrote sit (in my head) a bit
Do you not mean $A \subseteq f(A) \land f^{-1}(A) \subseteq A$ ?
Can anybody recommend a great lecture video series for learning some complex analysis?
(I've already watched the MIT complex variable one and it was quite introductory. I'd prefer more in depth stuff if possible!)
Well, the right-side is $f(A) \subseteq A \land f^{-1}(A) \subseteq A$
now we tweaked the thing before and
by applying $f^{-1}$ to both sides (which still keeps the statement intact)
Give me a second Parth Kohli, I think I understand it now. I just need to get my head fully around it. Thanks by the way
@ParthKohli In regards to the first thing you wrote.
16:36
@Sirmimer Yes?
Shouldn't you apply $f^{-1}$ to both $f(A) \subseteq A$ and $f^{-1}(A) \subseteq A$
If you regard them as such? (without $\land$ symbol)
Oh, not really
Or rather.. would that not be correct? Give me a second and write u what I mean
$f(A) \subseteq A \land f^{-1}(A) \subseteq A$
$f^{-1} (f(A)) \subseteq f^{-1}(A) \land f^{-1}(A) \subseteq A$
So... prove that $f^{-1}(A) = A$ is equal to both $f(A) \subseteq A$ and $f^{-1}(A) \subseteq A$.

We have $f^{-1}(f(A)) \subseteq f^{-1}(A)$ and $f(f^{-1}(A) \subseteq f(A)$
Is that correct?
16:46
Hello, I have a little question about direct sum and direct produc of R-modules. Is the direct sum and also the direct product of a finite number of modules the same as the cartesian product (same as in equal by definition or as isomophism?) Thanks!
@ParthKohli, I just want to be sure about this: $f_n(z) = \frac {2nz -1} {z + n^2}$ is not uniformly convergent, but is only pointwise convergent to 0?
It's pointwise convergent to 0 since $lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} f_n (z) = 0$. However, I can't seem to find bounds for $f_n(z)$ within the disc, $|z| < 1$.
@Matti Yes, with finite being the key word
17:01
@Krijn Great, thanks! All those definitions had me a little confused there :)
@Matti Just think of vector spaces, or abelian groups or something, always clears it up for me
Hi
how are you all
Good, how are you Zach?
17:03
Hi @Krijn, and @ZachHauk
I'm just a bit tired
I'm going to be skimming over the first few exercises in Ted's multivariable book
Who's taken complex analysis?
Years ago
3, to be exact
I have posted a question earlier. I just want to confirm that $f_n(z) = \frac {2nz - 1} {z + n^2}$ is not uniformly convergent on the disc $|z| < 1$
@DanielFischer In a general normed space, how would you go about proving that any convex function is continuous ? It seems the real argument of differentiability doesn't adapt
17:07
Hi @krijn @zach
I couldn't find bounds for it for some reason
Hello also everyone and good morning!
@Don'tdisturb what do you mean? :P
I haven't studied complex analysis, but my hobby is to try to understand what these questions mean without knowing an ounce of it.
that's cool, @ParthKohli
@ParthKohli good luck
17:10
Is there somewhere on StackExchange where you can find what a user has said in a certain chatroom
yes
there's a search box in the top right hand corner of the said chatroom
it will take you to another page where you can specify a user
otherwise you can tweak this url chat.stackexchange.com/search?q=SomeText&user=NameOfUser&room=36
change 36 with the relevant room number
Ah, the Wiki definition makes a lot of sense.
Yeah but it needs text
@LeGrandDODOM
ah
I guess there's a request for that
Hmm, my search continues
For now; food.
17:17
@Krijn seems like it's not possible meta.stackexchange.com/questions/269745/…
17:34
@DanielFischer For what it's worth, I can prove that $$\lim_{y \to \infty} \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} \frac{\sin\left(a(x+iy) \right) \cot\left(\pi(x+iy) \right)}{x+iy} \, dx = - i \lim_{y \to \infty} \int_{-\infty}^{\infty}\frac{\sin\left(a(x+iy) \right) }{x+iy} \, dx $$
and $$\lim_{y \to \infty} \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} \frac{\sin\left(a(x-iy) \right) \cot\left(\pi(x-iy) \right)}{x-iy} \, dx = i \lim_{y \to \infty} \int_{-\infty}^{\infty}\frac{\sin\left(a(x-iy) \right) }{x-iy} \, dx $$ for $0 < a < 2\pi$
But it's only because I know the Fourier series $\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \frac{\sin (an)}{n} = \frac{\pi -a}{2}, \, \quad 0 < a < 2\pi$.
We're essentially dealing with something quite similar.
Just checking: there's no difference between the span of subspaces, $\operatorname{span}(U,W)$, and the sum of subspaces, $U+W$, right?
17:50
Yup @Bobbie
That's what I thought. Thanks, @Daminark
Do note that this equality only makes sense if you're dealing with finitely many subspaces
I have eaten too much.
Would it be better to have this sequence: oeis.org/draft/A283265 in the version: 1, 0, 0, 4, 0, 6, 0, 8, 9, 10, 0, 12, 0, 14, 15, 16, 0, 18, 0, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 0, 30, 0, 32,... instead?
The zeros are at twin primes.
Except for 2.
By recurrence.
18:28
@LeGrandDODOM Unless the space is finite-dimensional, it doesn't follow. Consider a discontinuous linear functional. Being linear, it is convex.
18:45
@DanielFischer what if boundedness assumption is added ?
18:56
@LeGrandDODOM I guess that would imply continuity. But I don't know. $$\psi_x \colon h \mapsto \lim_{t \downarrow 0} \frac{f(x + th) - f(x)}{t}$$ should define a sublinear functional. If $f$ is bounded on a neighbourhood of $x$, $\psi_x$ should be bounded on a neighbourhood of $0$, so continuous. Thus the subdifferential isn't empty, and I think that should imply continuity of $f$ at $x$. Dunno if all that works, though.
19:27
I wish I still had my lego blocks around, I'm not convinced by the house with two rooms
hahah
There's a good bunch of pictures somewhere on the internet
I was looking at it, there's a second post here more focused on the retraction
Ah nice
This picture convinces me of the whole story quite clearly
@BalarkaSen had you studied at ISI before?
19:37
which universities had you previously studied at?
Sorry, I don't really want to reveal that information.
oh man I'm so gonna trace and find you (sarcasm)
hihi
dont trace out my endomorphisms pls
My headphones are broken and I don't have a spare :(
@BalarkaSen aha I see it now!
That picture is the $\varepsilon$ nbhd Hatcher is talking about
19:47
Yup
People look at pictures? shocked
Oh, the house with two rooms. So cool.
It's always fun entering the ground floor from the roof.
In hindsight if I know how to construct it from a sphere I can do the construction in reverse and return to a point
Hi @Ted
Hi @Alessandro
Note that the epsilon-neighborhood is a ball, not a sphere.
@TedShifrin I am a big fan of pictures
Yes, I meant a ball
19:49
@Balarka: You're still sick.
Gotcha
@TedShifrin I am a lot better today actually!
Oh, good — but then you should have caught my sarcasm.
Here's a good puzzle for you guys (you may already have thought about this). It actually came up in a question on main, but it also came up in the integration portion of my course about 4 years ago. ... Give me a bounded open set in the plane whose boundary (in the point-set sense) has positive measure.
Oh you were being sarcastic. You should have added the 8 eyes rolling expression then.
Nah, @Balarka. A healthy you would have recognized it.
@TedShifrin Take an Osgood curve and take the disk it bounds according to Jordan-Schoenflies.
19:52
OK, do it without any sledgehammers.
I pass to Alessandro :) [By which I mean, I am interested in an easier example but I'll let Alessandro have the pleasure of finding it]
(My glib response to my students who asked on the video was to mumble space-filling curve, but I told them to come talk to me in office hours about a more direct construction.)
Interesting, I don't recall that video
I went back and checked when the question came up on main. It occurred when I was discussing the theorem that a function with discontinuities a set of volume 0 is (Riemann-) integrable.
Ah yes, I never watched those bits of your Riemann integral videos.
19:57
Does an open set minus a cartesian product of fat cantor sets work?
Your answer is better than the construction Alessandro will do (:)) because the closure of your open set is an interesting compact set.
Probably, @Alessandro, although I don't think you need a product of two Cantor sets. There's an easier construction, yet, although it has, I suppose, a thick Cantor set flavor.
Doesn't that just give the cartesian product of the boundary points of the fat cantor set as boundary?
Is that positive measure? I doubt
I mean, it's countable so it's not
Boundary of product isn't product of boundaries, though.
Hello, cat in French!
smacks Fargle
20:00
I think it works, $\Bbb R^2$ is Baire and this cartesian product is meager so it's complement is dense
@TedShifrin Ok, ok, that's a great point.
So it should have the whole product of cantor sets as boundary
morning
20:01
@TedShifrin :L
I'm still wanting a construction that my freshman students would understand. :)
wow, it's 3:00 already
Hi @Zach, @MikeM (goodnight)
I should stop waking up at noon
Morning @MikeM
20:03
@MikeM: They just called you and me (and probably a few others in here) the "seditious fringe."
Who did?
@TedShifrin A union of disks with radius $1/n$ around every point with rational coordinates in the unit circle?
@TedShifrin hm, let's see... (Do people learn about the Lebesgue measure in their first year?)
No, @Alessandro. :P
@Daniel: I'm not sure $1/n$ is small enough.
Make it $1/(2n)$ or so then.
20:09
I think Ted meant more like $n^2$
I'd have to do the calculation :P
I did it with a geometric sequence, but, yeah.
The annoying thing with this example (and hi, @DanielF) is that the closure is the whole square. So an example where the closure is a proper subset would be more interesting. But, anyhow ...
Anything that converges will do as a start, then some scaling will make sure it doesn't fill the whole thing.
Yes, of course, @DanielF. I understand.
Anyway, I don't disagree
'twas a comment on Allessandro's remark.
20:11
Oh, sorry, @MikeM. I got distracted. Apparently the hordes holding pro-45 rallies.
I know that you know, Ted.
What are pro-45 rallies @Ted?
45 refers to the orange cheeto (by number).
Err, what is a cheeto?
he's talking about the donald
(45th prez)
also hi
lol nice nick name
20:14
Hi, tern :)
@DanielFischer Nice, I like that. Hi, by the way.
Here's a theorem Bob talked about yesterday. Suppose you have a knot in $S^2 \times S^1$ that intersects one of the 2-spheres transversely in a single point. Prove that it's the unknot.
Hey everyone!
A fun exercise for any would-be topologists.
Hmm, I have no intuition for that at all, @MikeM.
Hi, Demonark.
20:19
@Mike I do knot have enough knowledge to do this problem
@MikeM: Is it vaguely like the Morse-theoretic Fary-Milnor proof?
I tried for a bit but got distracted
So there's no room to put a true knot far away from that single 2-sphere, Mike?
Surely we can have knots in $S^2\times (0,1)$.
Sure there is - there are of course plenty of charts to put it in. But you can unknot it outside that chart.
20:22
Hmm ...
There's a good reason I never was a topologist.
:)
As a hint, the isotopy to the unknot never changes the intersection with the given 2-sphere.
So that one intersection datum tells us a disk has to fill in.
That intersection number must tell me that you're isotoping to $\{p\}\times S^1$?
Sorry, here I mean unknot as S^1 x pt. No disk fills or in.
Yah.
@TedShifrin Nope, look at a meridian.
Right, @Balarka, $S^2\times S^1$ isn't quite like $S^3$.
OK ... it's lunchtime for this Bonzo. Bye all ...
20:27
See you!
if the knot intersects a $2$-sphere $S^2\times\{y\}$ exactly once, then there should be a nbhd $Y$ of $y$ for which it intersects each $2$-sphere of $S^2\times Y$ exactly once, so we should be able to "disconnect" the knot from there and look at a path from one boundary component to another of $S^2\times (S^1\setminus Y)$. then we can contract each boundary to a point and we're looking at a loop in $S^3$
Thicken then S^2 up into an S^2 x [0, 1] so the knot comes at S^2 x 0 and goes out from S^2 x 0. Thicken up it into a tubular neighborhood and look at boundary. That's an embedded S^2 (two S^2's tubed togather) in the S^2 x S^1, right? And it's complement is S^2 x S^1 minus a ball...
I am not sure if that helps a lot.
actually disregard my $S^3$ sentence
Funny that our ideas look alike
If it's knotted then the complement really shouldn't look like S^2 x S^1 minus a ball (which is because S^2 x S^1 is prime), but I can't prove that.
Hey !
20:41
What are the units of the arc length equation tutorial.math.lamar.edu/Classes/CalcII/ArcLength_files/… ?
Is it just the result for instance "10 units" and thats it?
units?
arc length measures the length... of the arc... so it's units
yeah the general units. For instance "cubic units" "units" or what ever
yeah just units
20:43
Ahh thats what i thought my math professor so bitchy about these things :(
because units squared would probably have an outer integral too...
Well, what did he say?
No, i just lose points if did not include the unit of measurement so making sure it's just units
Think of, like, a proper trefoil (trefoil knot with two ends extending off to infinity in R2 x [-1, 1]) and then think of identifying R2 x {-1} with R^2 x 1 by identity and one point compactify fiberwise to get it inside (R2)^* x S^1 = S^2 x S^1. Why's this not a nontrivial knot (it surely hits an R^2 x {p} transversely at one point)?
Strange.
That is probably nontrivial.
That'd contradict your theorem though, right?
20:58
Oh, I meant it's probably nontrivial before the fiberwise compactification.
Ah. That's sort of even more strange.
I guess that's true. If you could make it trivial in D^2 x S^1 you could probably unknot the trefoil in S^3 by just doing it inside a solid torus...
That's true but I bet you can make a homological argument too - pick an isotope to the unknot and check how many times the isotopy crosses infinity.
nah that's no good
Oh so I guess I understand what happens after fiberwise compactification. You get to move a "handle" of a crossing up to the R^2 it hits transversely, and then make it lie flat, and then move it so it goes round the point at infinity and comes back. I bet moves like that would resolve the knot
Sounds hard to actually prove to be working
Sounds like it should flip an overcrossing-undercrossing pair into an undercrossing-overcrossing pair
Wouldn't finitely many moves like that unknot stuff?
21:13
So this should work for any knot whatsoever in S^2 x S^1
No... fit a nontrivial knot in B^3 in there
I meant one which hits an S^2 transversely at a point (because you can move the "handle" overcrossing the stuff which goes inside S^2 and then slide it around the sphere to make it lie behind the stuff coming out of S^2 from the other side - but those are the same things so you flipped overcrossing/undercrossing)
good then
I believe you even get less dumb counterexamples where you do hit a lot of S^2's transversely but not at a single point like this:
You could just wind around twice
21:19
Yeah, fair enough, that's easier.
If you already know that every differ of S^2 extends to a ball I think you can use this to calculate the mapping class group of S^1 x S^2
Strike that, need Cerf's calculation of MCG(S^3)
That's also Z/2 right?
21:35
Not sure if I see how you get MCG(S^2 x S^1) out of those
There's a much more straightforward phrasing of your proof. Straighten the knot to be constant (on S^2) near t. Cutting that open, we get a "long knot" in S^2 x R = (R^3 \ 0) that statts from 0 along the z-axis and ends at infinity going up the z-axis.
(This is anon's idea.)
@Mike Which Bob?
Edwards?
Ya.
Then this is like a lightbulb dangling from a string, and you can unknot that without moving the lightbulb or the ceiling - just pull knots down under the lightbulb and you can change overcrossings to undercrossings.
This was your operation of pulling things across infinity.
(the negative z-axis corresponds to infty times R)
The lightbulb being the sphere? That makes sense.
The lightbulb being 0
and the ceiling being infinity
Equivalently I'm just saying that arcs in S^3 can be unknotted without changing them near the end points.
21:45
There's a similar argument that if there is a 4-manifold with boundary X
and a knot in its boundary K
Ah, alright
Hi just a guy who doesn't understand what's going on passing by
If K bounds an immersed disk which intersects transversely at one point with a sphere
Light bulbs man
then K bounds an embedded disk.
That argument is in Freedman Quinn
and is probably due to Wall
21:46
Interesting
smooth or top?
@PVAL-inactive Very nice!
The sphere
has self -intersection 0
I guess thats a necessary assumption.
It's something you two can figure out
21:50
Yah I see how to do it with that assumption.
22:14
non-invertible matrices have columns which are linearly dependent and map $\Bbb R^n$ to a subspace of lower dimension, right?
also, the matrices satisfying $M^2 = I$ are orthogonal
I mean
are of the form $nI$
for $n \neq 0$
do you mean $M$ or $M^2$ is of the form $nI$?
Heelo, @AlessandroCodenotti i need you help please
Just ask your question, but I'll be going to sleep soon
22:27
hi everyone
$M$ is of the form $nI$
i meant
i have this exercise :

Let $\tau$ be a familliy from $\mathcal{P}(\mathbb{R})$ consisting by $\mathbb{R}$ and any set such that it's complement containes $[x_0]$ where $x_0>10$

!. give the nature of $]9,10]$ and $[9,10[$

----> I think that these two sets are open

2. Distinguish the open sets

---->I don't understand this question

3. give a basis of $\tau_{\mathbb{N}}$ i don't know how to do ?
@AlessandroCodenotti
@ZachHauk ok, that's false, try $\begin{pmatrix} \frac35 & -\frac45 \\ -\frac45 & -\frac35 \end{pmatrix}$
does that matrix squared = $I$?
22:33
@Vrouvrou what does $[x_0]$ mean?
@ZachHauk yes
@AlessandroCodenotti it is floor function
So $[x_0]$ is just an integer $\ge11$?
Ok so I agree with you on the first question
Also on the second, I'm not sure what do they expect you to answer
and the third question ?
we must give a basis for $\tau_{\mathbb{N}}$
22:41
I think that exercise is very poorly phrased, the whole of $\tau_{\Bbb N}$ is obviously a basis for itself, I don't know if they expect a smaller one as answer
i think the smaller
Ah, actually that space has a nice to describe basis
Are the singletons open?
all singletons but not $\{[x_0]\}$
Hey guys
So, since every set not containing $[x_0]$ can be written as the union of the singletons containing its elements...
22:47
so the basis is \{[x_0]\} right ?
Why? What's the definition of basis?
Hey
@AlessandroCodenotti is the set where all open sets can be writen as union of it elements
If $T:V \to W$ is a linear transformation
And $Im(T) \subset Ke(T)$
does that mean for any $v \in V$, $T(v) = 0$ ?
can all the open sets be written as a union of elements from $\{[x_0]\}$?
22:50
no i do a mitake
but i don't know what can be the basis
it can be $\{x\}$ such that $x\neq [x_0]$
but what about $[x_0]$ ?
yup
it's not open, it's not supposed to be in a basis
ok
can we compare this topology with $\theta=\{G\subset \mathbb{R}, \mathbb{R}\setminus G<+\infty\}$
@Maks I suppose $V=W$?
22:54
@AlessandroCodenotti I dont know that
Lets do the real example here
How can you say $Im(T)\subseteq Ker(T)$ if they are subsets of different sets?
$T: P^4 \to R^4$ given by $T(a + bx + cx^2 + dx^3) = (d,a,b,c)$
$Ke(T) = {0}$ ? I say true
What's $Nu(T)$? The kernel? In that case I agree
Oh sorry hahah, I kept the spanish notation
hi chat.
22:56
@AlessandroCodenotti can we compare this topology with $\theta=\{G\subset \mathbb{R}, \mathbb{R}\setminus G<+\infty\}$
@Vrouvrou can you find a set in $\tau$ but not in $\theta$? And viceversa?
$dim$ $Im(T) = 3$ I say false
I can find a set in \tau that is in \theta @AlessandroCodenotti
Now, is $Im(T)$ contained in $Ke(T)$ ?
@Semiclassical Hi !
22:57
that's not useful @Vrouvrou
@AlessandroCodenotti that's all what i see
@Maks $Im(T)$ is a bunch of tuples of real numbers, $Ker(T)$ is a set of polynomials, how can one be contained in the other?
Hahah good point, they live in different spaces, they can't contain eachother
@Vrouvrou can't really tell you much without solving the exercise in your stead... Are there sets containing $[x_0]$ with a finite complement in $\Bbb R$?
On the other hand, there's a very simple statement re: Im(Ker(T)).

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