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00:08
@Henning: your first upvote today hasn't shown up yet.
there :-)
I wish I had such devoted fans... ;-)
2
00:20
@AsafKaragila I keep trying, but I just do not understand enough to upvote your answers :-( If you go after some LHF, I might be able to understand your answer :-)
I go after set theoretical LHF sometimes... :-)
@AsafKaragila I will have to dig harder, or admit that I don't even understand the set theoretical LHF...
There are things like this and things like that, both of which I consider somewhat LHFs.
@robjohn I wonder what it is happens for the first half to whole hour of each day such that fresh votes are not shown. It doesn't seem to make software-engineering sense, given my mental model of how the site works.
@AsafKaragila I actually came up with something close to your answer to the first one while I was reading it, so that is definitely LHF (but a good answer). I will have to look up equipotent to vote on the second.
00:30
Equipotent == same cardinality
@HenningMakholm your mental model is flawed :-)
@robjohn Obviously.
@HenningMakholm Ah, thanks.
@robjohn Well, equipotent = equipollent = equinumerous = of same cardinality.
brb
@AsafKaragila okay, the second is just a spruced up proof that $\omega+1\sim\omega$ :-)
00:40
Yikes. So far I have like... six pages of material for tomorrow. I would roughly have time to talk about four of those. This is good news for me, in general, as it means that there will not be much time for many proofs.
@robjohn Not exactly, but yes.
@AsafKaragila you need to squeeze that material to fit into one lecture :-)
The point is this: the listeners don't know anything about set theory.
So I am not going to even begin presenting the proof by Shelah.
Instead I am going to explain the problem itself.
So I have to explain a bit about Ext of abelian groups, which would take about ten minutes; and then give some definitions which would take another ten.
Then some claims without proof in between, and a few claims with proofs which would get me another 15 minutes into the lecture.
So far we're at roughly 35 minutes.
This gives me 10 more minutes to talk about two big theorems, and thus leaves me with very little time to discuss technical lemmas.
@AsafKaragila I said spruced up, that means it is not the same, but adjusted to work in the new case. If I am misunderstanding, then I will have to take my upvote back :-)
lol
It's locked in, you can't.
@AsafKaragila until I edit it :-p
00:45
@robjohn My understanding was that it doesn't really prove omega+1=omega, but just shows how to lift X+1=X to P(X)+1=P(X) if you already know it for X (which may be omega or something wilder).
Then bump it, which will cause my post to gain more upvotes than the one you took away.
Win win!
@AsafKaragila :-)
If you're bored and feel like making JM lose a wager, let me know.
@AsafKaragila ooh, piss off a mod?
@AsafKaragila what's the wager?
Well, not a mod in math.SE but still a mod... ;-)
We bet when I'm gonna get to Generalist.
00:48
Do his mod powers only extend to Mathematica.SE?
It turns out that I am two votes short in .
@robjohn And the chat network.
@HenningMakholm Okay, but it seems like sprucing up the map from $X\leftrightarrow X+1$. Maybe I am oversimplifying.
@robjohn Okay, I'll buy that interpretation.
@HenningMakholm I am certain I understand Asaf's answer, so whether my oversimplification is right or not...
I think it is indeed an oversimplification. I think Henning is correct saying that it shows how to lift X+1=X to P(X)+1=P(X).
01:07
That is what I was terming sprucing up.
@AsafKaragila as I was looking through some old questions, for an unspecified reason, I came across this. Isn't it true that $A$ is the union of all the elements of $P(A)$?
It is, this is what I claim there just as well.
@AsafKaragila Oh, so you did answer that one. How odd ;-)
Huh?
William Chan proved by contradiction, where I proved directly which I think gives a little bit more insight if you're inexperienced with set theory.
@AsafKaragila Odd that I would come across a question that you had answered...
Look, it's 3am and I'm very tired. I still have some work to do... so I'm not following your humor (if present) very well. Sorry! :-)
I'm approaching 500 answers.
01:17
@AsafKaragila Congratulations!
Well, still some time to go... 469 at the moment.
no check your badges...
Oh look. I have just enough for dem stinkin' badges! Now I can be one of the Federales!
@robjohn Are you around?
@KannappanSampath I am, but I am leaving soon. What's up?
01:24
Well, in the sum of sines=sum of cosines=0, you can get to my equality just by squaring add, right?
@robjohn
Haven't we had how to study before the university questions here?
(I +1'd your answer but it means nothing to you!)
Well, it's more of a commentary about these sort of questions...
Anybody second the motion to make a wiki article from this? I don't think my rating is high enough yet.
3
A: What are well-known weaknesses of CAS/math software?

Bill DubuqueThere are many other problems: branch cuts, zero-recognition, keeping track of domains of validity, etc. A good place to find such information is to browse the web pages of leading researchers, and conference proceedings (ISSAC,SYMSAC,Sigsam,Eurosam, etc). For example, see Richard Fateman's paper...

01:49
@jamesson You could flag it. I think that's the standard procedure. See this thread.
Hasta Jesus. I just finished writing the non-set theoretical part of the lecture.
9 pages...
That's about double than what I can talk about.
@jamesson What exactly is it you want to happen? Setting the "Community Wiki" flag on Bill Dubuque's answer without his consent is Not Usually Done.
See also this recent meta answer arguing against making questions CW.
02:04
There. Finished.
I have like five hours of sleep left, which is pretty nice. So I'm gonna use them now.
See you later, folks.
Does someone have access to a computing environment like Mathematica, Maple or whatever handy?
I need to get an approximation of $$\int_0^\infty (e^x-\lfloor e^x\rfloor) e^{-x/2}\cos(14.134725141\cdot x)dx$$ if possible. (The 14... constant is the imag part of the first nontrivial zero of R. zeta.)
brb picking someone up
btw my hypothesis is approx $(2\pi)^{-1/2}(1/4+14.134725141^2)^{-1/2}$
 
3 hours later…
04:51
@anon, the function oscilates too much, so numerical integration dies a merciless death
another route would be to compare the graph of $$\int_1^\infty (u-\lfloor u\rfloor) u^{-3/2} \cos(\omega \log u)du$$ with that of $$\sqrt{2/\pi} \mathrm{Re}\left(\frac{1+\zeta(1/2+i\omega)}{1/2+i\omega}\right) $$
 
2 hours later…
06:36
@anon That integral is very unstable. I can't get it to settle down. The $x-\lfloor x\rfloor$ part might be problematic
I'll just double check my answer tomorrow
@robjohn, a picture is worth &c: wolframalpha.com/input/…
$DEITY... Alpha was mostly useless, but now that they are trying to get people to pay for it it has become simply useless.
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez Thanks. That is sort of what I thought the function looked like. $e^x-\lfloor e^x\rfloor$ is pretty random
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez That is simply sad.
If you remove the scaling factor, you see the problem:
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Plot[%28Exp[x]-Floor[Exp[x]]%29%2C+{x%2C+0%2C+5}]
stupid chat thingie pretending to know what a URL is
I just ran it in Mma
06:45
after 3 or 4 the plot stops being significant, though
I was only guessing your intended limits before.
$\int_5^\infty e^{-x/2}\mathrm{d}x = 2e^{-2.5}=0.164169997247798$
so removing the stuff that is around 1 in absolute value, there is still a significant amount of the integral past 5
but it is pretty noisy
I wonder why this question has 4 close votes.
@anon: it would seem that unless you have a theoretical way of computing the integral, I don't think numerical methods are going to be much use.
Is it to protect someone from reading this and getting annoyed? : )
I like this. Just when I thought to myself that I want a break from SE I stumble upon something amusing.
1
A: Are these zeros equal to the imaginary parts of the Riemann zeta zeros?

anonThe answer is almost, but not quite. Why they are so close will be made clear momentarily. We begin by partially evaluating the usual Fourier transform: $$F_N(\omega)=\int_0^{\log (N+1)} \big(e^x-\lfloor e^x\rfloor\big) e^{-x/2} e^{ix \omega}dx $$ $$=\int_1^{N+1}\big(u-\lfloor u\rfloor\big)u^{...

The graph of my answer appears to have all of the zeros as the first graph in the OP, though his appears to be scaled, but I still wanted a bit more empirical confirmation. That's why I was asking.
07:00
It is very badly behaved for numerical computation, I'm sorry to say.
After 5 or so, I would be tempted to use 1/2 as an approximation for $e^x-\lfloor e^x\rfloor$ :-)
heh
If there weren't so much cancellation by the $\cos$ it might be valid
07:14
@MattN The close votes are all on the grounds that the question is not constructive.
 
2 hours later…
08:46
I don't think that post has to be killed! Your answer is beautiful! @Brian
 
1 hour later…
09:54
Hey @BenjaminLim!
Got hold of Atiyah McDonald. Looks pretty fast paced!
@KannappanSampath Judging by the number of upvotes on both the question and some of the answers, I think that it’s probably safe.
to close, you mean?
Safe from being closed.
Alright! Now, of late I have been discussing with Matt some metric spaces and it is some what close to completion!
(The connectedness part! Inspired by this, I'll write up a complete set of notes!)
It’s a good way to be sure that you understand something.
10:05
I hit at this problem: If $E$ is a non-compact space, then prove that there is a unbounded continuous map from $E$ to $\mathbb R$. No spoilers please. I am just telling you. No Not even a hint right now. :-)
pruning my favorites list. finally on page 3 out of 13...
Looks like I have a proof, now:
Suppose every continuous map from $E$ to $\mathbb R$ is bounded, then, I claim that $E$ is compact.
To see this, let's take a sequence $\{e_n\}$ in $E$.
Then $\{f(e_n)\}$ is a sequence in $\mathbb R$.
Any bounded(comes from our assumption) sequence in $\mathbb R$ has a convergent subsequence, in particular $\{f(e_n)\}$.
@KannappanSampath You want to have a go at: math.stackexchange.com/questions/113917/…
?
Oh, no @Benjamin Lim. I am a beginner in Ring Theory hardly having done Dummit and Foote! Sorry that I am of no help!
10:15
@KannappanSampath Man this problem is driving me nuts man going round and round in circles....
@BenjaminLim Is this to be graded or something? I think you're doing it for learning. So no hurry!
@KannappanSampath Well I am about to start something in commutative algebra at my uni
this is all preparatory stuff...
I am worried because that reading course will be on atiyah macdonald
so if I can't do stuff from it now
Never mind! But are you sure the exercise is true as it stands? Because, there may be a misprint and you may be trying to prove it and thus disprove Godel's inconsistency theorem....
@BenjaminLim Did you get my previous message?
@KannappanSampath Yes....
I meant Atiyah McDonald one!
@Benjamin
10:32
@KannappanSampath No that would not be helpful
I am not saying you should look at the complete solution for all problems.
@Brian Did you see if I was on the right track?
10:47
Hiya.
Hi @Jonas How was your weekend?
@KannappanSampath Was okay, had a lot of work to do. Yours?
@JonasTeuwen Good enough. With physics exams heating me up, I am now alright after its over!
Good :-).
hell... part 7 of Oksendal is much more harder and a bit less formal than the first 6 parts
10:52
Which level of hell?
it's blowing up the mind and I now even do not care too much about how rigorous are proofs - I'm happy just to catch the idea
@Ilya 8-).
@Kan: I don't know - levels of hell form a non-measurable set so you can't measure it
@Jonas: how are you?
@Ilya I'm fine. Mathematica does not like me. How about you?
@JonasTeuwen I guess it likes me, but don't be jealous
10:54
@Ilya Apparently this can
@Ilya 8-).
How many trying out that test in the link? 8-)
@KannappanSampath I didn't, no free time. Let me play World of Warcraft
It was a joke. WoW should burn in hell with its cartoon-like graphic, and WC 3 also
the last good WC was the 2nd one, with an oil... ah, sweet 90s, oil is everywhere - even in fantasy game Warcraft 2
10:58
:D.
@Jonas: have you seen this?
@Ilya Now I do!
wishing if Matt or Brian will arrive
@Kan: why?
11:14
@Ilya I think he says we are too boring!
@Jonas: me too. Duel? Or maybe, Triel?
@Ilya Two against one? 8-).
@Jonas: exactly
@Kan: what do you think?
11:44
@Ilya I don't understand, your comment. I think that probably was rude. If so, apologies!
@KannappanSampath don't take it serious :)
Not that you people are boring but that I was discussing something with them @Jonas
@Kan: topological problems?
@Ilya Yes precisely! You get the point!
And thank you for shortening my name (No Sarcasm whatsoever intended)
@Kan: you can also shorten mine, if you manage :)
11:48
@Ilya This I know is Sarcasm! :-)
rather irony :) (no sarcasm here)
I have to leave, see you later, @Kannappan
@Ilya Sure. Send Matt in case you can! ;-)
See you later. :-)
12:40
How do I make a function in Mathematica like Blah[f[x], {x, 0, 1}] which does f[0] + f[1]?
@KannappanSampath I'm here. Shall we start?
@BrianMScott I see.
@MattN Sure. Thanks a lot. Did Ilya send you? ;p
I came across this exercise:
If $E$ is non-compact metric space, prove that there exists a continuous unbounded function from $E$ to $\Bbb R$.
Logic tells us that:
We can equivalently prove that: If every continuous function from $E$ to $\Bbb R$ is bounded then $E$ is compact.
(Note: Converse is true!)
Proof of converse: If $E$ is compact and $f$ is continuous, $f(E)$ is bounded!
For the direction we are now interested in, I attempted it and got stuck here!
3 hours ago, by Kannappan Sampath
Suppose every continuous map from $E$ to $\mathbb R$ is bounded, then, I claim that $E$ is compact.
Yes : )
Let's take a sequence $\{e_n\}$ in $E$.
We'd like to construct a convergent subsequence
Here's where I am stuck.
12:56
Hold on. In a metric space you have that the space is compact if and only if it is sequentially compact i.e. if every sequence has a convergent subsequence.
You know that if $f$ is continuous then you have $\lim_{n \to \infty} f(x_n) = f(\lim_{n \to \infty} x_n)$
Yes, Convergent sequences are taken to convergent sequences.
How about this:
13:03
@KannappanSampath Let every continuous $f$ be bounded. And let $e_n$ be a sequence in $E$. We want to show that we can find a convergent subsequence. We have that $f(E)$ is bounded hence $f(e_n)$ is bounded and by Bolzano-Weierstrass we have that $f(e_n)$ therefore has a convergent subsequence.
Let's denote that convergent subsequence $e_{n_k}$.
Yes, I did this a few hours back as well. :-)
@MattN Won't $f(e_{n_k})$ be a better choice of notation?
hi @rob
@RajeshD Hey there, haven't seen you in a bit. How are things?
@RajeshD Hi!
fine...i was a bit busy with personal things
13:06
@KannappanSampath So where were you stuck then? : )
@RajeshD quite understandable. I was here in a sporadic manner for similar reasons.
@MattN I seem to have problem following: There is a convergent subsequence $f(e_{n_k})$.
@KannappanSampath Sorry, I messed up there.
So, you look at the preimage of this sequence. Why should this converge in $E$?
(typing)
13:11
Mr. @RajeshD append full name after @, I know you ping to robjohn but initial three letter are same in my name too, so I too got your ping.:
sorry @Robin , I didn't realize there was another rob in here
13:22
:)
@KannappanSampath I'm very sorry, I was afk just now because we had a guy coming to fix our tumble dryer. Now I'm back and you have my full attention.
@MattN Sure. No problem. But, do you understand the thing I am not getting why?
Yes.
Hm. I'm starting to wonder whether it's better to prove the other direction.
As in prove without invoking logic?
No, as in start with $E$ non-compact.
13:32
And prove that there is an unbounded function which is continuous?
Yes.
@MattN can you show that the continuous image of a compact set is compact?
Yes.
@robjohn Yes, I can too.
@robjohn You can get an open subcover by taking the inverse images.
13:34
yes
perhaps I am missing the actual question. What is it?
@robjohn We have $f(e_{n_k}) \to f(e)$ and we want to show that $e_{n_k}$ converges.
what other information are you given?
$f: E \to \mathbb{R}$ is bounded and continuous. $E$ is a metric space.
47 mins ago, by Kannappan Sampath
If $E$ is non-compact metric space, prove that there exists a continuous unbounded function from $E$ to $\Bbb R$.
13:38
I have an idea.
I asked Brian not give even an hint. I regret it now. What is your idea @Matt.
My idea just broke because Bolzano-Weierstrass doesn't seem to work for any metric space.
I'm still here and thinking, btw.
So, am I but not getting anywhere. : (
I thought about those sequences which do not have any convergent subsequences. But don't know how to use continuity of $f$ to such kind of them!
13:49
$\{ f(e_{n_k}\} \cup \{f(e)\}$ is closed in $\mathbb{R}$. Right?
Yes.
So, it inverse image is closed in $E$.
That's what I just thought there and then I was going to say that it contains all its limit points.
But that doesn't give us a convergent subsequence.
Of $e_n$. But we do get some convergent subsequence.
We'd have $\{e_{n_k}\} \cup \{e\} $ is closed and we want to show that $e_{n_k}$ converges.
@MattN Here again, we have to prove that $f(e_{n_k})$ converges in $f(E)$, no?
13:52
@KannappanSampath No. That's what we have. What we want is that $e_n$ has a convergent subsequence.
No, we started with an arbitrary sequence in $E$ looked at its image under $f$. Boundedness of $f$ gave us a convergent subsequence in $\Bbb R$ but why should it converge in $f(E)$. Am I missing something obvious?
We started with a sequence $e_n$ in $E$. Then we noted that $f(E)$ is bounded and hence $f(e_n)$ which is a sequence in $f(E)$ contains a convergent subsequence $f(e_{n_k}) \to f(e)$.
So we have a convergent (sub-)sequence in $f(E)$.
Now we want to use this to get a convergent subsequence $e_{n_k}$ in $E$.
@MattN See for instance we could have had $f(E)=(0,1)$ and $f(e_{k_n})=\dfrac{1}{n}$, right?
Yes.
But here, $f(e_{k_n})$ does not converge in $f(E)$. No?
13:58
Yes, it does not converge in $f(E)$.
So, our claim that the limit of the subsequence is attained by the function does not seem quite right to me!
Should we try out the approach of open covers?
I thought of that but I think what we're trying to do should work.
I'm puzzled. @robjohn Do you have any suggestions?
Hurrah. A google search seems to help.
@Matt Here is a link I got to problem set with solutions on googling these terms now.
(Problem 2)
Yep. I'm glad it's not as easy as I thought. It's still quite easy though.
Glad?
Anyway, looks like he is constructing an explicit unbounded map.
14:10
@KannappanSampath Semi-glad.
@KannappanSampath I'll be here for the next 10 hours or so btw. When is your exam?
@MattN Day after tomm. :-)
I should be able to help you with most of your questions, even though I failed you with this one.
(I'm sure we'd have eventually also managed this one but of course given the closeness of your exam deadline this was not an option.)
I shall read that proof later on, that I have fished out the link. Let me look for some interesting exercises.
@MattN BTW, I thought this material was not all condensed given that I did my quizzes quite well.
And, my teacher's exercises are easy. These are some I am doing to learn a bit more to keep me engaged! :-)
@KannappanSampath I think that's awesome. You're a good student : )
@MattN : )
Alright, I am shooting this in without giving any thought. No spoilers or hints. I'll ask you if I need.
14:19
Ok.
A map $f: X \to Y$ is said to be proper if the inverse image of any compact set in $Y$ is compact in $X$. Prove that $f$ is a closed map if it is continuous and proper. What about the other implication?
@MattN Shall I go have dinner and think about this problem? I'll be back in less than 20 minutes. Sorry! : (
No problem! I'll be here. Enjoy.
14:46
It really disturbs me that JM's notice hasn't reached 11 stars yet like the other two did.
14:59
@Matt Here we go with the proof:

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