« first day (571 days earlier)      last day (4745 days later) » 
00:00 - 14:0014:00 - 00:00

00:00
Well, I am just using his jargon....
Hilbert shrugged in his grave!
Why would he shrug, of all things?
Well, you put in Nullstellansatz and removed it. So, he was like, is my Nullstellansatz not woth entering this chat room, and cursed this world and in particular you.
I don't think that corpses often shrug while cursing.
: D
They don't shrug often but they do it less often!
And this was one of them!
Would this be an appropriate place to ask a simple question that I don't feel necessitates its own thread?
00:06
Yes, quickies that would not require more than four/five lines, probably.
for me, other users will possibly have lower, upper bounds
@AsafKaragila ??? ::Random::
You philistine.
Does this chat render latex code? (This is not the question I actually came here to ask)
It requires an addon which you can find the the chat rules (on the starred list to your right)
00:08
Sure, it does if you have been blessed by Robjohn
So the cap has lifted. The final tally has it vaporizing 33 upvotes for me yesterday ...
Hasta Jesus!!
Rob Johnstein, did that guy heeded my advice?
00:12
@HenningMakholm Geez, and I was already feeling bad about my 4 yesterday :-p
I am working on a problem involving the Frobenius map, denoted $\varphi$. The problem says prove that $\varphi^n$ is the identity map. Does this mean to iterate the map?
@AsafKaragila I don't think so; the problem has no accepted answer.
ie: $\varphi(\varphi(\varphi(\cdots)))$ $n$- times?
It is often what the notation mean.
Either way, I should hit the hay.
Six hours before I have to be on my way to see my students mad at me during the resit.
Ha! the shameless plug worked! The answer itself has not gotten any votes, but the answer referenced in the answer just got 2 :-D
00:15
One from me :-)
This answer requires my taking a look at it and hence no....
@robjohn didn't you forget to subtract from 1 in your final approximations?
It's about time!! I finally have more votes in [elementary-set-theory] than I have in [set-theory]. (I have like 50 more answers in the elementary tag... :-))
@HenningMakholm I don't think so. Where do you see that?
@robjohn The last two lines
@HenningMakholm fixed. Thanks :-)
00:20
@DavidK: Yup.
Goodnight jerks and jerkettes.
@CamMcLeman I thought so. Didn't make sense the other way.
@AsafKaragila MathJerx
@CamMcLeman Thanks!
@DavidK: Sure thing.
Nice to see some number theory happening in the chat every once in a while... :)
00:24
Hi boys.
Well, in the first 30 minutes of today, I have gotten 50% more votes than yesterday altogether :-D
Not that that is hard to do...
@AsafKaragila would the topology of exams be the topology of pointwise convergence?
@AsafKaragila Did they do badly the first time?
perhaps I missed the conversation about this
00:41
@robjohn Perhaps I remember Asaf telling us that he sketched a proof without going to its details. Students lost 15 or 20 points in there (for 100 total points) which might have been dearer for a few!
@KannappanSampath Ah, thanks for the recap. That explains the resit.
That Asaf will grade the resit, I think he would be as good a grader as he is at hand waving the proofs.
: 0
Well, I am off to walk my dog. She likes Saturdays because she goes with my wife to the place where my wife works on jewelry on the weekends. I go there to walk her in the countryside.
Have a nice time @robjohn
@KannappanSampath See you soon :-)
00:55
@Mariano Can you guide me through how to install GAP into my laptop?
is that a linux laptop?
Windows :/
then no :)
there is probably a precompiled zip file on the GAP download page, no?
I'll be probably shifting over Ubuntu in a few weeks!
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez No.
00:59
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez I think I was looking precisely for this but could not figure out! :-)
Thank you!
np
and good luck
And, happily, I have been putting together ideas on connected sets. I must thank you for your help with Open sets formulation
Matt has been helping me proofread those in the process I end up learning a lot. @Mariano (The above message as well)
cool :)
GAP is addictive: be careful! :)
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez As in? (I tend to ask that when you can prove?)
You can do all sort of things with it
and it is great for getting a feeling about the structure of conbcrete groups
I've spent hours and hours playing with PGL(3,2) with it, for example :)
01:06
I don't want to boast, but I believe in doing brute force computations if you don't immediately see something.
For instance, I computed all $2^5$ subspaces that complement a given $1$ dimensional subspace in $F_2^6$
That's good. I do the same from time to time.
In general, before I finish writing the code I realize how to do what I want without the computer, though
In your case, those subspaces are the kernels of all the linear maps which do not vanish on the 1-dimensional subspace.
Then, with those simple groups, I was madly in love with them that I proved that within 200+, there are those 2 simple groups.
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez Yes.
BTW, I never wrote a code, I did it by my hand :)
to write them down, you can notice that up to the action of the linear group, you can suppose the 1-dimensional subspace is the first coordinate axis
so a linear functional which does not vanish there is simply one which has a non-zero coefficient on the first coordinate.
since there is only one possible non-zero coefficient, it must be 1
you can pick the other n-1 coefficients arbitrarily
This shows I have not been thoughtful.
I wrote them out without giving this an iota of thought!
or only that I have thought about this before :)
01:15
So suppose we have a holomorphic around the origin in $C^n$. We can uniquely write it as the product of a Weierstrass polynomial in a specified coordinate and $h$, where $h(\bar(0))\neq 0$.
Where do I see bookmark I created of messages in the chat?
Can someone explain the statement, "The zero locus of $f$ projects locally onto the hyperplane $w=0$ (where $w$ is the specified coordinate) as a finite-sheet cover branched over the zero locus of an analytic function (the discriminant of the weierstrass polynomial)
 
1 hour later…
02:28
@Benjamin How have you been?
@KannappanSampath Not bad
I would like to start up reading notes from CRing Project, would you like to join me?
uhhh....
I don't know maybe that is not the best way to go.
@BenjaminLim As in?
The approach is using category theory and stuff
02:30
@BenjaminLim So, what should be the first book, then?
@KannappanSampath I recommend Miles Reid's Undergraduate Commutative Algebra
though I prefer to read Category Theory sooner than later:-)
@KannappanSampath I would advise not; until at least you know some homological stuff, algebraic topology.
It's like asking if one should learn algebraic geometry straight from Hartshorne :D
@BenjaminLim Thank you. Will take a look if I can fish out a link for the book.
Many people have advised me not to.
02:32
@BenjaminLim :-)
@KannappanSampath You see the thing you want is motivation. If you know algebraic topology and the like than there is more motivation for category theory.
Nice Analogy.
@BenjaminLim Sure.
Otherwise very quickly you will get lost. Like I tried learning ring theory from Paul Cohn's Ring theory book.
I would not try again.
@KannappanSampath I am extremely hungry have not had lunch now it's 1.30 I am going to make lunch
should be back in about 1 hour.
Sure. See you around later!
@BenjaminLim 12.30??
australia time 2.30
sorry sydney time
02:36
Interesting, time differs widely within Australia @BenjaminLim
03:25
@KannappanSampath They have 4 timezones in Australia, I believe.
@robjohn I see. I had to google to see all this!
Welcome back!
@KannappanSampath Thanks :-)
Do you think it is good to start doing Category Theory?
@KannappanSampath One of the boardgames we play on Sunday night is Australian Rails. I pick up a bit of geography :-)
@KannappanSampath That is not a question that I can answer.
I have never looked at Category Theory at all.
03:48
@KannappanSampath What I can say is, it is indeed tempting to go straight to the top
I mean everyone wants to study class field theory straight away right?
category theory is, for the most part, a language
@BenjaminLim Ah. So, did you finish your lunch?
class field theory is actual math
@BenjaminLim No I don't want to because I know I don't have enough basics. :-)
exactly.
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez Can you help me with something concerning an application of the weak nullstellensatz?
03:50
I'll be back in a minute, gotta run now!
@MarianoSuárezAlvarez How long till you be back?
@KannappanSampath I made meatballs and wombok :D
@BenjaminLim Do you cook your own meals everyday? That's a bit Spooky. :D
@KannappanSampath Everyday without fail twice a day
and if you count operating the coffee machine in the morning three times :D
Oh, you have a coffee machine at your house?
Yeah in my room here at uni.
The smell in the morning mmmm....
03:53
I see. I love coffee that is strong as ever.
you see in australia one does not simply go out and order masala dosa for a cheap price.
or rava dosa
Ah, your Indianism puts me at so much awe! :-)
here one dosa is maybe 6 AUD?
316 rupees
Huf.
We pay like INR 15 in our institute for a Masala Dosa.
yeah see, that's why eating out is expensive, and no temples to go to for occasional free lunches
so I cook everyday without fail. It's like a mix
one day it's stir fry, then maybe some pakistani stuff like murgh cholay
sometimes lamb, lebanese bread, that kind of stuff
03:57
Oh. May be I should drop out of the Institute Mess and cook my own food.
You are a typical Indian. The culture is just in you buddy! :D
Although I am of non-indian heritage :D
@KannappanSampath One thing I have not tried to do is rasam.
@BenjaminLim Oh, you know about this thingy?
It improves digestion.
Definitely. You consume it after meals for digestion :D
English calls it: Milagutani!
In my kitchen cabinet I have asafoetida, garam masala, tamarind, etc a lot of stuff you need to cook all the above!
I've always known it as rasam.
Here you can even buy drumstick and cook sambar :D
Ah @DylanMoreland you're around :D
04:02
@BenjaminLim Ah, you put me in a fix. You are certainly interesting guy that I would like to meet you someday in real life!
Hi @Dylan
Hi folks.
@KannappanSampath You should try cooking your own meals. Some skill is required to balance studies and cooking, shopping for ingredients, etc
You see I am semi vegetarian so I eat a lot of vegies, and most of them go sad after 3 days or so
@BenjaminLim Yes. Certainly that's why I'd like to try.
So I need to go shopping for food 3 times a week.
@BenjaminLim I see! :-)
04:04
@DylanMoreland I am having some trouble with a problem concerning the Nullstellensatz
You've skipped ahead quite a bit in A-M, then!
@DylanMoreland Yeah....
@KannappanSampath Atiyah Macdonald
@DylanMoreland So the problem is to show that if $X$ is an affine algebraic variety
we consider the map (between topological spaces?) $X$ and Max $(P(X))$.
$P(X) = k[t_1, \ldots t_n]/I(X)$.
04:07
I'll be back after my break fast! Oh sorry breakfast!
The trouble comes in showing the surjectivity of the map
So I tried to look at what maximal ideals that contain $I(X)$ look like in $k[t_1, \ldots , t_n]$.
By the weak Nullstellensatz because $k$ is algebraically closed we know that any maximal ideal in the polynomial ring is of the form $(t - a_1, \ldots, t - a_n)$ where the $a_i \in k$.
Is this the problem in Chapter 1? I don't think you're supposed to know how to do that at this point.
Yeah it is the end of chapter 1....
well it mentioned Nullstellensatz so that's why I looked it up :D
@DylanMoreland Do you think it would be a good idea to try and realise every maximal ideal $m$ in the form $m_x$? Surjectivity would then be proven no?
So you want to argue that this is the image of $(a_1, \ldots, a_n)$.
what do you mean?
04:17
You have a map $X \to \operatorname{Max} P(X)$. That point is an element of the domain.
So I agree with your strategy.
You see in problem 26 (the previous problem) we defined $V(m) = \{x \in X : f(x) = 0 \hspace{2mm} \forall f \in m\}$
and showed using compactness that $V(m)$ is not empty using compactness of $X$
But now I presume we are taking $X$ and $P(X)$ to be topological spaces?
You don't really have to. It's a statement about a map of sets.
04:21
But if you put the Zariski topology on the variety then yes, this would be a homeomorphism.
I'd like to ask why do I find what is being discussed under the header: Commutative Algebra more like Analysis
Ok. But now the thing is in the previous problem I could say if $x \in V(m)$ then $m = m_x$ and surjectivity is immediate.
@KannappanSampath It is. You can turn the prime spectrum of a ring into a topological space by putting the zariski topology on it.
Oh. I neither comprehend what a spectrum is nor Zariski thingy but Thanks for your Patience.
Commutative algebra is to algebraic geometry as analysis is to differential geometry.
@DylanMoreland I think the problem is that now I am dead in the water, no prior experience in problems like that.
With all the previous problems I had experience in topology to back it up.
04:28
I guess I don't see where the hitch is. It seems like you have everything you need to do the problem: for $\mathfrak m = (t_1 - a_1, \ldots, t_n - a_n)$ a maximal ideal set $x = (a_1, \ldots, a_n)$. Then each $t_i - a_i$ vanishes on $x$, hence $\mathfrak m \subset \mathfrak m_x$ and these are both maximal ideals.
@DylanMoreland My god am I blind or what that is coming straight from the problem!
So consequently $m = m_x$ and the map is surjective? But then someone suggested me to use the lattice theorem.....
@BenjaminLim No you are not blind. You were blinded by your false belief you did not know prior experience! :D
@KannappanSampath Thanks. Though there is no topology involved in this problem .
@BenjaminLim They might have suggested that for the purpose of showing that the maximal ideals of $P(X)$ correspond to the maximal ideals of $k[t_1, \ldots, t_n]$ containing $I(X)$.
04:32
@DylanMoreland I know that, but how is that applicable to the problem here? Maybe in proving the weak Nullstellensatz which you used above?
It's applicable because the weak Nullstellensatz tells you about ideals of the polynomial ring. You are doing a problem involving the ideals of a quotient of that ring.
@Benjamin I got to prepare for exams. I've procrastinated enough. I'll be back to check the site once after a few hours. Let's hope I'll catch you then!
: D
@KannappanSampath Ok bye :D
@DylanMoreland Give me some time to figure this out a little I'll be back.
04:49
@DylanMoreland We know in the ring $k[t_1 ,\ldots,t_n]$ the maximal ideals look like $(t_1 - a_1, \ldots a_n)$ where each $a_i \in k$.
But now if I look at the image of such a maximal ideal in the quotient, say I look at the first generator of this ideal
$t_1 $ goes to $\xi_1$
$a_1$ goes to where? A point of $X$?
@DylanMoreland I'll ask that on the main site.
@BenjaminLim It goes to its image in the quotient. But it's also true that the restriction of the quotient map $k[t_i] \to P(X)$ to $k$ is injective. Because $P(X)$ is not zero and $k$ is a field.
I don't get after the first sentence...
You see if I know that the image of $(t_1 - a_1 , \ldots, t_n - a_n), a_i \in k$ in the quotient is $(\xi_1 - b_1, \ldots \xi_n - b_n)$ for $b_i \in X$ then automatically I can say that there is a point $x \in X$, namely $x = (b_1, \ldots, b_n)$ such that each polynomial in the ideal vanishes at $x$.
Then I'm done.
I don't understand. Why are points of the space now elements of $P(X)$?
@DylanMoreland The first two things are not points of space. They are ideals generated by $n$ elements.
You write $b_i \in X$. That doesn't make sense to me.
The images of generators will generate the image of the ideal in the quotient.
05:01
Yeah.
Ah, I think I see what you're saying now.
I look at the preimage of this maximal ideal in the polynomial ring. I know it has this form $(t_1 - a_1, \ldots, t_n - a_n)$. Why is $(a_1, \ldots, a_n) \in X$?
Somehow I'm not using the fact that the ideal $(t_1 - a_1 \ldots t_n - a_n)$ contains the kernel $I(X)$...
Well in the polynomial ring the $a_i's \in k$ no?
Ok, so now I need to determine what an ideal in $k[t_1, \ldots, t_n]$ that contains $I(X)$ looks like ....
@AmiteshDatta Hello!
@DylanMoreland Maybe I'll ask on the main site
I can tell you why the point is in $X$.
Is there anything else to worry about?
05:07
Don't tell me everything, but that is about it really.
I'm trying to think of the least confusing way to put it.
If I know why the image of a maximal ideal $(t_1 - a_1 , \ldots t_n - a_n)$ that contains $I(X)$ in the quotient is $(t_1 - b_1, \ldots t_n - b_n)$ where each $b_i \in X$ I am done. That is it.
Here's one shot: the zero set of $\mathfrak m_x$ is just $\{x\}$.
So close now....
huh?
ChatJax is not working so well these days.
At any rate, if $S \subset T$ are two subsets of the polynomial ring, then what can you say about the corresponding zero sets?
05:10
huh? What do you mean by the zero set of $m_x =\{f \in P(X): f(x) = 0\}$?
If I have a subset $S \subset k[t_i]$, then I can look at $Z(S) = \{(a_i) \in k^n : f(a_i) = 0 \text{ for all } f \in S\}$.
This is a sort of inverse to the operator $I(\:)$ on algebraic sets.
It's like $V(m)$ defined in problem 26?
I don't have the book right here. Probably!
Oh sorry man!
Well, the bookshelf is not so far.
Yes, it's like $V()$. But define it for all subsets (or just ideals, if you prefer) of $k[t_i]$.
05:15
Yeah.
The point is that if $S \subset T \subset k[t_i]$ then $k^n \supset Z(S) \supset Z(T)$.
Yeah because in the bigger set we have more polynomials that need to satisfy being zero on $(a_i)$
so somehow it becomes "smaller"
Exactly. More conditions means a smaller set.
Palindromic reputation time :-)
@DylanMoreland Right.
05:18
@robjohn Again?
@DylanMoreland 17471 Indeed
@BenjaminLim Now, you're in the situation $I(X) \subset \mathfrak m_x$. Or maybe we should use some different notation for the maximal ideal because we're considering it in $k[t_i]$. It doesn't matter.
What is $Y$?
Sorry, I always call my varieties $Y$.
Do you mean the preimage of $m_x$ contains $I(X)$?
Recall $m_x = \{x \in P(X): f(x) = 0\}$
05:21
Sure. That's what my remark was about; I didn't want to give it a name.
yea
let us call it....
choosing this is so hard.
well let's call it $p$ = preimage of $m_x$ in $k[t_1 \ldots t_n]$
$p$ for preimage!!!
So....
 
1 hour later…
06:32
@KannappanSampath I don't remember you being so infallible.
06:52
@Asaf I am sorry if that was awkward.
Asaf probably is angry with me :_)
Anyway, I'll wake up from bed if I hear a pong!
07:51
I have a small issue to inquire.
I am currently doing the exercises of the book commutative algebra by Atiyah, wherein the basic knowledge of the functor Tor is pressumed.
Might I ask what that could be? Thanks.
08:09
Or is there any reference to read? Still thanks for paying attention.
 
2 hours later…
09:50
Kannappan: Regarding your text in the proof of 2.5. (b): at the end you write "So, $A$ is closed. Since, $B\neq \varnothing$, $A \neq X$ ." I think you should write "Hence $A$ is also closed since it is the complement of an open set and it is non-empty and proper since $B \neq \varnothing$ and $A \neq X$."
10:01
To finish (e) you do something similar to what you did for (d): You assume that $X$ is not connected so it can be written as a union of two separated sets $A$ and $B$. Then we show that they are both open (in the same way as we did in one of the other proofs). Then you assume you have a non-constant continuous map from $X$ to $\{0,1\}$ with the discrete topology. Then you show that that's a contradiction.
@Matt: hey there.
11:00
@Ilya I didn't get pinged :-( H there :-)
@robjohn: no other Robs as I can see, strange it is
@Ilya I got pinged there. Anyway, how are things?
@Robjohn: that's ok, enjoying the weekend. how are you?
@Matt good morning
@robjohn Hello there. How are you?
@Ilya Doing pretty well.
11:02
@Ilya Morning Ilya.
How are you doing?
@MattN Welcome back :-) pretty well.
@Matt: fine, thanks. How are you?
@robjohn Thanks : )
@Robjohn: I wonder, if you have ever seen the construction of the Riemann integral as an $L^\infty$-extension of linear functional determined only on piecewise-constant functions? I've found it interesting that such extension only need a little knowledge of metric spaces and that's it
I tried these beers yesterday and I'm not as keen as I thought. Nastro Azzurro is to watery and too bitter.
@Ilya Recovered. Thank you. : )
11:04
@Matt: I'm glad to know that
*needs
*too
@MattN :) yeah, Italian beers are not so nice. French too, to be honest - I've tried a couple
@Ilya I think I like 1664 but now I'm not so sure anymore.
1664 I didn't like so much. It is ok and that's it
11:08
Hi Jonas.
hi, @Jonas. how are you?
@Ilya What about that Spanish beer we had? (It was... okay)
@Ilya It seems like the piecewise constant functions could fill in for the partitions in the usual definition of the Riemann integral.
@JonasTeuwen it was... so-so
Exactly!
11:09
@robjohn yeah, but then I remember us having some technical proofs of existence and so on. Ok, I'll write it down and show you later, would you take a look?
@Ilya Sure.
@JonasTeuwen I love these Spanish-Mexican beers to be honest: Corona, Desperados and Sol (quite worse that first two) - these you can by in AH and wherever. On Gran Canaria I've also tried the local beer 'Tropical' - that was perfect
I'll check back later, I was actually going to post some solutions to the exercises in the set theory book in the other room. It would be nice if we could talk about the Fourier transform later (or whenever you have time and are in the mood), @robjohn
@MattN Sure.
Hi
11:11
@Ilya I think I'll buy these for a change the next time we go beer shopping. (Not to soon, seeing as I still quit drinking)
I wonder how long I can get by saying only, "Sure."
@robjohn Aces : ) Looking forward to it.
Does contractibility together with finite-dimensionality imply the fixed point property?
@robjohn you have just stopped
@Ilya Sure.
11:12
@Nimza contractibility itself doesn't imply it?
@robjohn doesn't count :)
yes)
it was an open problem for 20 years
:) then it should be different from contraction of a map (I thought about)
@Jonas, @Robjohn, @Nimza: ok, I need to leave, have a nice Sunday
yes, it's a deformation retraction, not a contraction
bye
bye
@Ilya But isn't Desperados just from Heineken?
@Ilya Bye!
11:15
@Ilya You too.
:-)
@Nimza the infinite dimensional problem? I don't see why it would be different.
Oh, not a contraction map, but contractibility...
Yes, but Brouwer-Schauder-like theorems are for spaces homeomorphic to the ball. And here I have spaces that look like letters in some alphabet
For graphs without loops it is clear because they can be considered as retractions of the ball. But if we have loops I don't know what to do
11:37
@Nimza I thought you said they were contractible. The Letter "O" is not contractible.
So only the trees are contractible?
@Nimza Loops don't look contractible to me.
And is it true that any connected graph with loops doesn't have a fixed point property?
How do you describe the fixed point property for a graph?
11:53
It's not a graph in usual sense. I mean the graphical representation of graph)
for example X, H, K are trees and B is a graph with 2 cycles)
12:08
@tb It's "on the radio" but I think you know that. : ) (Tell me if you want me to stop being annoying and pointing out potential mistakes.)
 
1 hour later…
13:21
@AsafKaragila I do : )
13:36
I see that Bill Dubuque started posting again yesterday.
His reputation has been increasing faster than mine while he's been gone though. :-)
:-)
First group theory question I answered in a week! Let's see if people like that answer!
00:00 - 14:0014:00 - 00:00

« first day (571 days earlier)      last day (4745 days later) »