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15:00
thats the plan
can the probability of two independent events be higher than 1?
so like $P(A and C) = 1.15$
no probability can be higher than 1
unless you're a quantum mechanic
@arctictern and @Astyx, another foolish question: is $e^z - 1 = \sum_{n=0}^{\infty} \frac {z^n} {n!} - \sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \frac {1} {2^n}$?
@HarryEvans you wrote a power series for 1, but we're talking about power series involving powers of $z$
$1$ is just the first term of $e^z$'s power series, so $e^z-1$ is the same power series but with the first term made $0$
if you want you can think of $1$ as $1+0z+0z^2+0z^3+\cdots$
(you do the same thing for polynomials: you can think of $1$ as $0x^2+0x+1$ for example)
So, $e^z - 1 = \sum_{n = 1}^{\infty} \frac {z^n} {n!}$?
15:07
@arctictern bah, not even then.
Physicists care a lot about the unitarity of time evolution in quantum.
what would it mean for a probability to be negative
But, how about $z$? Oh God, I'm so freaking stupid. I think all my juice has been sucked up :(
It'd mean that what you've written down doesn't make sense.
18 mins ago, by arctic tern
you end up with $f(z)g(z)=0+1z+0z^2+0z^3+\cdots$ on the one hand
guys, need some help understanding, I'm given that $P(A and C) = 0.12, P(A) = 0.4$

I need to find $P(C) = 0.12 - 0.4 = -0.28$
Find $P(C') = 1 - - 0.28 = 1.28$
but.. like, i dont understand it
15:12
@AlessandroCodenotti This should be true. Take any open set $U$ in $X$; $X - U$ is proper closed so any cover of $X - U$ admits a finite subcover. That, together with $U$, is a finite subcover of $X$.
P(A and C) != P(A)+P(C).
@SylentNyte P(C) does not equal P(A and C) minus P(A)
Well, better to parse it as: given any open covering of $X$ pick $U$ out of the open cover and take it's complement - reduce it to a finite covering there.
oohh
wait
okay
P(A and C) = P(A) * P(C)
@BalarkaSen Are you studying chemistry by yourself?
15:13
@DHMO Yeah.
Well, mostly.
@BalarkaSen wow! I guessed because few syllabus include the fact that some compounds with chiral center are not optically active
Isnt $P(A and C) = P(A \cap C)$?
@SylentNyte if A,C are independent then P(A and C)=P(A)P(C)
@arctictern which they are
15:15
@HarryEvans yea, just dont know how to doi the symbol
it's \cap for intersection, \cup for union.
$P (A \cup C) = P(A) + P(C) - P(A \cap C)$
thank youu
@DHMO Right. The point is that chiral center doesn't stop it from admitting reflectional symmetry.
@BalarkaSen as long as you have two chiral centers
also, there are chiral compounds without a chiral center
15:18
ofc, if you have only one chiral center clearly it'd never be symmetric
@arctictern, sorry, I was lost at representing $z$ as a power series... :(
@HarryEvans I told you how z is represented as a power series. And then minutes later I blockquoted the exact same message.
@DHMO Hmm... what's an example of this?
Alright I got to go now, have a nice day everyone
Oh, sorry, I didn't see it, @arctictern
15:20
@BalarkaSen yeah, I changed my mind with a reasoning similar to yours in the meantime
Bye now, @Astyx
Thanks, @arctictern :)
What powers of z do you see in the expression "z"? Well, you see a z there, which is z^1. Do you see any other powers of z in the expression "z"? No, so all other powers have coefficient 0.
I had this doubt because you always see that "closed subsets of a compact space are compact" in textbooks but thay could actually be an iff
The same idea goes into understanding polynomials in college algebra. For example, when they do long division or synthetic division, if a polynomial is "missing" powers of z they need to put "0" in that column. If you don't see a number written in front of a power of z, that means it's coefficient is 1. If you don't see a constant coefficient, that means it's 0. Etc.
@Alessandro Right
Ahh, I should have guessed the first.
@BalarkaSen Also this, a hydrocarbon!
@arctictern, I think I get it: $\sum_{n = 0}^{\infty} c_n z^n$ where $c_n = 0$ for $n \ne 1$
@DHMO weird as hell
15:26
I have a model of cell migration, and I want to calculate what proportion of each type of I cell I want to end up with a certain proportion at the end. So I have red cells, green cells and blue cells. After 24 hours (800 frames), 75% of the cells present should be red, 15% green and 10% blue. Cells enter the domain in 3 different ways.
@BalarkaSen chemistry is weird
high-school chemistry is beautified chemistry
agreed
isn't high school anything overly beautified?
The first of these is being in there from the beginning. Let's say there are n cells to begin with (so n*k_r of these are red, where k_r is the proportion I'm looking for). The next way is cells entering from outside the domain. The probability that one cell enters is p, the probability that two cells enter is p^2 etc. I do this being calculating a random number at each step, and summing the p^k (plus the probability that none enter) until I get into the right interval.
The last way is through cell divisions. Red cells divide into red cells, green into green and blue into blue. Cells divide once every 10 hours (so approximately every 333 frames)
@BalarkaSen that is true
High school math is arguably the ugly version of math though
15:28
So I guess what I want is to know calculate how many cells of each colour there will be at the end in terms of the proportion k_r of cells entering that are red
(or k_b for blue, k_g for green)
so beautiful that it's ugly
I'm just struggling a bit, partiuclarly due to the cell divisions
What is it specifically that I'd need to integrate over?
I will assume that the time remaining before cell division of cells entering from outside is uniformaly distributed
15:41
@arctictern, so $f(z)g(z) = \sum_{n=0}^{\infty} \frac {B_n} {n!} z^n \sum_{n=1}^{\infty} \frac {z^n} {n!} = \sum_{n=0}^{\infty} c_n z^n$, where $c_n = 0$ for $n \ne 1$ and $c_1 = 1$?
yes
now do cauchy product on left side
But, doesn't the Cauchy product formula require the lower limit of the summation to be zero?
interpret $e^z-1$ as the power series with $n=0$ term $0$ and $n>0$ terms $z^n/n!$
Oh, so we must write, $\sum_{n=0}^{\infty} \frac {b_n z^n} {n!}$ where $b_n = 0$ for $n = 0$ and $b_n = 1$ otherwise?
15:53
Hello all, anyone can help me with a simple physics (path of sunlight ) question.
http://imgur.com/a/nzv65
In the picture uploaded, why is $F_{1}$ the midpoint of the duct with length $l$?
I'm going for a walk. Thanks, @arctictern and @Astyx. Gonna catch some pokemon :)
Geesh, it's raining
16:10
Hello
@BalarkaSen high-school geometry is a counterexample, at least in the US context
@AlessandroCodenotti Huh? Not true.
@Ted ?
It is true.
Only in a Hausdorff space.
guys for grouped frequency data
to find the variance, do we use n or n - 1
16:14
Or maybe I'm not understanding what you guys were saying.
No, I don't see why Hausdorffness is needed.
What is the assertion? That a compact subspace is closed?
You just pick an open cover, take complement of an open set, reduce it to a finite cover outside.
Any proper closed subspace is compact.
16:15
if somebody wouldnt mind answering my question
@Sylent What is n? Where are you using it? I find the question to be unclear.
i need to find the variance of a grouped frequency data
Yes, any closed subspace of a compact space is compact. I agree. I thought you were asserting that any compact subspace is closed. What did "iff" mean?
"consider the following grouped frequnecy table, find the variance of this data"
@TedShifrin Compact implies any proper closed subspace is compact. The other direction is also true, is what Alessandro meant.
So that's the iff.
16:17
@Sylent: I don't know what a grouped frequency table is.
Please state the "other direction" for me.
@SylentNyte n-1 is for sampling... right?
"Any proper closed subspace is compact" implies "compact"
Any proper closed subspace is compact implies compact.
@DHMO but is it a sample or a whole population???????
me and like 12 other class mates are arguing about this
16:18
@SylentNyte how do I know
@SylentNyte You sum over the number of class marks. What's the issue?
you only told us that it is grouped
I guess we don't state that because I've never used it, that I'm aware of.
because sometimes, variance is just "n", sometimes they say sample variance which means to use "n - 1"
You haven't answered what n is.
16:19
@DHMO and thats all ive been told
@BalarkaSen the erm, the total frequency
Yeah. There's this crazy $n$ versus $n-1$ that shows up in that. A statistician once tried to explain it to me, but I still don't get it.
Which calculation rule is used, when solving for x in: $x^(p-1)=y$
I don't even understand what the n and n-1 dilemma is.
@Sylent Ok, so, what is the issue?
@BalarkaSen in sampling, you divide by n-1 instead of by n
^ that
16:20
Oh. No, in variance you divide by n.
@BalarkaSen but there is sample varaince
how do i know which one to use if its not told
Ok, I don't know much about that so I'm gonna chicken
agreed
well
16:22
I'll watch it later. Stat can be unmotivated sometimes.
im just going to use n
assuming that the data included is of the whole population
Why does isolating x in $x^(p-1)=y$ -> $x=a^(1/p-1)$
$x^{p-1} = y$
$\left( x^{p-1} \right)^{\frac1{p-1}} = y^{\frac1{p-1}}$
$x^{(p-1)\frac1{p-1}} = y^{\frac1{p-1}}$
$x^1 = y^{\frac1{p-1}}$
$x = y^{\frac1{p-1}}$
@SylentNyte, it depends. Are you using a sample of the entire population? Then use, $n - 1$.
@DHMO: I looked at part of the first video. It's clear and motivated. The main point is that we actually don't know the true mean of the distribution; we only have our "observed" mean from our data sampling.
16:27
@HarryEvans thats the key information that we do not know
@TedShifrin something something degrees of freedom
It is precisely because of the video that @DHMO mentioned
Yeah, that leaves me unsatisfied, @Semiclassic. I'm gonna watch the second video to see a proof that $n-1$ is the right thing.
@DMHO thx
@SylentNyte, as a guide for samples of 30 or less, use the sample variance, not the population variance
16:28
I may have my students use something like that in order to estimate the uncertainty in slope of the fits they do on their data from the reported R^2.
If memory serves one has a percent error of $\sqrt{(1-R^2)/(n-1)}$. But I need to look that up.
This is also the rule of thumb on whether to use a Student's t-test or the z-test
(I am not looking for anything too rigorous, just something to use as an estimate.)
When the sample size is small, $n < 30$, the Student's t-test is used over the z-test for hypothesis testing
Hello
huh, seems to be $\sigma_m/m=\sqrt{(1-1/R^2)/(n-2)}$ based on a source I'm seeing. Might reflect the fact that one needs to have at least three data points to have a meaningful uncertainty in a linear fit.
16:32
@Semiclassical @TedShifrin The main point is that $\displaystyle E\left(\frac1n \sum_{i=1}^n \left(X_i - \bar{X}\right)^2 \right) = \frac{n-1}n$
$\displaystyle \frac1n \sum_{i=1}^n \left(X_i - \bar{X}\right)^2$ being the "usual" variance
Hi chat
i'm back
after a 10-hour "nap"
Well, no, @DHMO, the usual variance would have $\mu$ in there instead of $\bar X$. :)
Hi @Zach
@
@ZachHauk, hi. How are you?
@Ted I think I'm going to apply to mathcamp
Cool, Zach.
16:35
the financial aid can pay for everything, include airfare
and whatnot
Nice.
When/where does Mathcamp take place?
Tacoma, WA in july through august
Well, Zach, admission and financial aid will be very competitive, so do your best, but don't expect too much.
Oh, I don't know about the one in Tacoma.
@Ted yeah I don't expect to get in lol
16:36
Sounds sorta like an REU.
you have to do this quiz and then write a personal essay
on math and stuff
I'm working on some quiz questions right now
i've only gotten the first one..
but i have a while to do it
Is there a nice characterization of the $\mathbf{\Delta}^0_2$ subsets of $\Bbb R$? (Those that are both $G_\delta$ and $F_\sigma$)
like, a month or so
I have no idea, @Alessandro.
@AlessandroCodenotti What would you get, if we remove the two axiom schema from the ZFC axioms?
@TedShifrin ^
16:42
It's a sad fact of how my brain works: "Hmm, should I work on A or work on B? I can't decide, so I'll do C until I do."
I don't think about foundational questions, @DHMO.
@Semiclassic: Work on A and B simultaneously, obviously.
@DHMO Some kind of weak theory that I have no idea what can be proved in
For reference, A="work on lab reports" and B="work on research"
@AlessandroCodenotti all the natural numbers can still be constructed
16:43
kinda hard to do those at the same time.
the real numbers can still be constructed
and you still have unions
but you don't have intersections!
Prioritize: $n$ hours on B first, @Semiclassic. You can do A when you're more brain-dead.
And get out of math chat.
For A, I should get out of chat.
Absitively.
For B, I may want to plug you on stuff :)
16:44
No, for B you need to get out of chat.
I'm going out for a while, anyhow.
Fair enough.
i think i have messed up my hand
Ouch.
I need to go back and add more to my notes on research.
@DHMO I don't think you can prove that the Dedekind's cuts are sets without separation (assuming you can construct $\Bbb Q$)
@AlessandroCodenotti fair enough
16:47
I should also do some reading on Milnor fibrations to figure out to what extent they're useful to me.
@HarryEvans The radius of convergence can be deduced from the distance of the nearest pole ($2\pi i$ and $-2\pi i$) to the center of the expansion ($0$).
@AlessandroCodenotti I think $|\Bbb N| = |\mathscr P(\Bbb N)|$ is consistent with my axioms
Hi @robjohn ... Long time!
@HarryEvans The recurrence is not too difficult using the power series expansion of $e^z-1$ and the composition of series.
ok well time to go write up my answer for question 1
bye guys
16:51
Bye Zach!
@TedShifrin I've been sick, then helping a friend who's been sick.
Sorry on both counts, @robjohn. I hope everyone's doing a bit better.
@TedShifrin It's been a rough first month and a half of 2017
@DHMO Everything that can be proved in ZFC is consistent with those axioms, assuming it can be formulated, which I'm not sure for statements involving $\Bbb R$
Well, that's globally the case, but it sounds like it's been personally bad for you. I'm sorry.
16:53
@TedShifrin well my wife has also been sick, and just found out she has bronchitis instead if pneumonia. She now has the proper meds and will hopefully be doing better. I am pretty much on the mend, but need to check in on my friend again soon.
@AlessandroCodenotti $|\Bbb N| = |\mathscr P(\Bbb N)|$ is inconsistent with ZFC!
I wish you all speedy recovery, @robjohn.
@DHMO woops, right, I misread that
I have no idea then
@TedShifrin she lives an hour and a half away, so it is not easy.
@AlessandroCodenotti Is it possible to prove that intersection exists?
16:55
@TedShifrin: I assume its been raining in SD, too. It was pouring all day here yesterday
Yeah, we had lots of rain and high wind yesterday. Seems so dull out there now, @robjohn.
@TedShifrin Yeah. Just back from walking the dogs (we picked up a stray at the friend's house I was just talking about on the day before Christmas Eve). It was drizzling a bit.
Well, the dogs will keep you engaged.
I don't know (I don't think so but I might be wrong) @DHMO, but I don't have time to think about this right now, I have some uni work that needs to be done
ok
16:57
I thought you were on holiday, @Alessandro. ?
@TedShifrin: The puppy was 8 weeks old and was hiding between her trash can and fence. Screaming. It was near freezing.
@TedShifrin by "fundamental questions" do you mean anything involving ZFC?
awww :(
Hello, any help on this..
@DHMO: I said foundational. Yeah, I don't like thinking about foundations of mathematics at all.
16:58
I see
@TedShifrin someone knows where to send these animals. We've rescued a kitten from a gutter and a puppy from the desert.
Both about 8 weeks old
@TedShifrin I am, the lectures will restart on Monday, but I have this small project thing about the Baire category theorem to do
Well, @robjohn, you're a good person.
Ah, right, the project, @Alessandro. Running out of holiday.
A loan of $ 5100 has to be repaid in two equal installments in 2 years. If the interest is charged at the rate of 4% per annum, compounded annually, find the amount of each installment
I still have a lot of time before the deadline, but I'd still like to finish it as soon as possible
17:00
@TedShifrin Now we have 2 dogs, 3 cats, and 2 bunnies. The bunnies were rescued from our park. They had also been abandoned.
Well, I won't comment that bunnies make good dinner ... :)
If we have an animal uprising, we're outnumbered 7 to 3...
@AlessandroCodenotti if you are currently familiar with applications of Baire, I would be interested if you can see how to apply the theorem to this problem: math.stackexchange.com/q/2071544/152424
it already has solutions, but the OP thinks there is a solution that uses the Baire category theorem
Well, since we're living through 1984, we might as well live through Animal Farm, @Robjohn.
@TedShifrin these are orwellian times we live in...
17:02
précisément.
@s.harp I know nothing about functional analysis, but this seems like an interesting question, I'll think about it
Hello all, anyone know a little about the path of light? i need help
imgur.com/a/nzv65
In the picture uploaded, why is $F_{1}$ the midpoint of the duct with length $l$?
 
2 hours later…
Huh, I thought we had 3.8 billion people on this chat :P
(God how would that go...?)
18:59
Hi guys. My book says that a subset $I$ in $\mathbb R$ is said to be an interval, if $I_{a,b}\subseteq I$ for each $a,b\in I$, where we've defined $I_{a,b}=[\min\{a,b\},\max\{a,b\}]$. However, I don't understand why this definition is necessary. Can't we just say that $I$ is an interval of $\mathbb R$, if $I=[\inf(I),\sup(I)]$? Or is this a broader definition?
Oh wait
But then something goes wrong
for open intervals
Is the reason they define it like this, so that they don't have to resort to treating open and closed intervals?
yea ok, it makes sense to me. never mind
Pretty much
Also helps emphasize that the intervals are precisely the connected subsets of the real line
Their names are unfortunate: half-open intervals are neither open nor closed.
Which names?
"Half-open interval"
I mean it seems somewhat intuitive, it's open on one side, closed on the other
19:05
yea, like half-empty is neither empty nor full. I think we use that all the time?
@Daminark But it is neither open nor closed, in terms of topology.
Wait
half-empty it NOT empty :P
that's even more confusing
True, I guess the best way to see it is that it's halfway between an open interval and a closed interval
you can however divide it into an open and closed set
partition it, i mean
topologically
Another thing you could do if you want to be a troll is that instead of considering it as a subset of the real line, just look at it under its subspace topology
So that it is both open and closed in itself
Same for every set
Open and closed will cease to have meaning, and thus we no longer encounter this terminology problem!
19:10
or look at it in the Sorgenfrey line
it's both open and closed there too!
(If it's closed on the, say, left, not the other way around)
just got the 5th question's answer :)
@DHMO I really don't like pop-sci like that. What do they think they mean when they say that "only 5% of the universe is normal matter"? Or when they say "atoms are 99.99999999% empty space"? Such vague blabbering, imprecise to the point of being contentless.
@s.harp what is wrong with that video?
Hi @Alessandro @Zach @Sha and everyone else
19:18
the ending
@BalarkaSen Saw a talk yesterday, on leavitt path algebras path algebras. It was the second part, and I didn't see the first talk so I didn't get to much out of it, but there was an interesting comment about trying to generalize correspondces of rings and spaces
hi @Astyx
I guess in the non commutative setting you can't find a (co)functor, which agrees with the classical functor and doesn't send nontrivial algebras to the empty set
I have never really thought much about the correspondence (I havn't thought much about commutative algebra or algebraic geometry) but I found that interesting
what's up @Astyx
Enjoying my last 36 hours of holidays and you ? I read you applied for yet another math competition ? :) @Zach
19:24
actually, it's a camp
i don't think i'll get in but it's worth trying
they have undergraduate and graduate level things there i think
I asked if you could maybe try to piece together multiple functors, to try to get a "good" correspondence, and I guess my naive thought wouldn't work, but someone there said that maybe there would be something that could work like that, and he was explaining some of the subtleties on how it might work, but I didn't really understand (and he was explaining it to the speaker) @BalarkaSen
Have you been to those sorts of camps before @ZachHauk
Hi @PaulPlummer
@Astyx Hello
@PaulPlummer nope
19:28
i'm working on some of the quiz questions
the first one wasn't that hard, and the fifth wasn't hard either
link the quiz?
ofc i won't talk about it
you'll have a good time there
i wanted to apply to teach, but didn't have time this summer
if i get in...
:/
19:31
Have you done those sorts of camps Mike?
nah
but i know some of the people who run mathcamp, and have heard good things from them and students
maybe i'll ask my current math teacher to give a recommendation
Ask Ted.
apparently you have to know them personally.
but, i guess i'll ask anyways
You know Ted personally in some sense, don't you ?
19:35
Me neither, but I am sort of curious as to what they do and how the students feel about it, and what they liked about it. I could imagine that one of the best things is being around more like minded people interested in math, even if you were not super interested in those sorts of "problem solving things"
It's not a problem solving type thing
They do real math
i hope they have something algebra-y
i need to brush up on my algebra
They will.
i haven't done much besides basic group theory
oh, sweet
19:37
Yah, looking through the site looks like it could be a really cool thing to do
do you think Ted would do that for me?
You can always ask
alright
"Problem Solving and competition-style math plays an interesting role at Mathcamp: it can be a piece of your mathematical experience, or your primary mathematical focus, or play little to no role at all" Not what I expected, an really cool of them to organize it this way, I always these things were focused on math competitions
Hope you get in, sounds like a great opportunity to learn, and do, some cool math @ZachHauk
thanks, i'll try :]
19:45
Best of luck !
20:31
Hi @Astyx. (Sorry, I didn't read it). Also, for anyone reading this: why is a path in $\mathbb R^n$ defined as an $n$-tuple of continuous functions with domain $[a,b]$, for some $a,b\in\mathbb R$? I don't really see the problem with having an open domain? Or to have $\mathbb R$ as the domain.
There is no particular reason, probably just so you can say paths have endpoints/begining and end.
Ahh right
Makes sense, thanks
It is also ok to call a continuous map $(0,1)\to \Bbb R^n$ a path
although usually you also want it to be piecewise differentiable or have some other "niceness" property, so you don't get things like this, which are sort of not something that looks like a path
You mean $(a,b)\to\mathbb R^n$, or $(0,1)\to\mathbb R^n$ specifically?
I also mean $(a,b)$, but its the same because $x\mapsto \frac{x-a}{b-a}$ is continuous bijection with continuous inverse from $(a,b)$ into $(0,1)$
20:41
You can always reparametrize $(a,b) \to X$ to be $(0,1)\to X$, but you can be interested in certain parametrizations, like ones that parametrize the length of the curve, in which case it is nice to have something which isn't just $(0,1)$
so if you have a path on $(a,b)$ you can view it also as a path on $(0,1)$ and vice versa
^thats right, but not every path has a length
I don't think I understand what you mean exactly. But if we have $1/x$ on $(0,1)$, then how is this a path with a beginpoint?
We haven't worked with paths yet btw. I just came across it in my book, so I might be lacking basic knowledge on paths. Maybe I should leave it for now, as I understand why it makes sense to use a closed interval in the definition.
it doesn't have a starting point, if you say "a path is a continuous map $[a,b]\to\Bbb R$" or "$[0,1]\to\Bbb R$" then it must have a starting point, but maps from $(0,1)$ or $(a,b)$ do not need to have starting points
ah okay
an even worse example would be $(0,1)\to\Bbb R^2$, $x\mapsto (x,\sin(\frac1x)\sin(\frac1{1-x}) )$, which is bounded and continuous but has neither starting nor end points
20:56
I would normally call the $(a,b)$ definition a type of parametrized curve, and I would normally think a path has endpoints by conventions I am familiar with, so I would say a parametrized path (type of parametrized curve) would have $[a,b]$ definition. But anyway these are just definition.
Hi everyone
I've just read in Brezi's Functional Analysis book that in a Hilbert space, evry closed subspace admits a complement
that's right for inifiinite-dimensional Hilbert space?
sorry if it's a dumb question

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