« first day (2389 days earlier)      last day (2929 days later) » 

Anonymous
22:00
There might be some geometrical interpretation of that ^
Anonymous
Interesting.
And, in fact, the objective function is also unchanged if all z's are changed by the same amount.
@PVAL-inactive You asked me something the other day. What was it? I forgot.
(The constraint, of course, is not.)
Anonymous
@Semiclassical Oh that's obvious as they all lie on an unit circle centred at origin
22:03
@Mike It wasn't a real question.
Or at least the last question I asked you was about trolling Ted
Does $T_pS^n = T_{-p}S^n$?
He answered that, @PVAL :D
Oh, right.
Can you help me make sense of the transition from cauchy integral formula to the study of power series , laurent , taylor and residue ect? @TedShifrin
@Kasmir: I can't teach you a whole course here!
What I like about the above is that wlog I can put one point at zero and require the others to be on the circle $|z-1|=1$.
22:05
Oh ><
I thought it would be 1 line argument sorry =p
If you want, I can send you lecture notes from when I taught the graduate course, but that might not be consistent with your course.
No, that's at least a week's lectures.
@Semi I'm not sure I believe you. You think if you add c to all the constants the value doesn't change?
@Mystic, @Semiclassic, @PVAL: what if we put $w=-ze^{i\theta}$ and try to argue it's maximized when $\theta=0$?
Say I have a section of some fiber bundle, the total space of which is a complex manifold. Suppose the image is a holomorphic submanifold (with the induced complex structure). Then why is it absurd if we reach the conclusion that the image is horizontal?
It isn't?
22:08
what do you mean horizontal
Ithink its the same course as in us , because we using a book in english ,and the whole course is in english =p @TedShifrin
Sure. $z_1-z_2\mapsto (z_1+c)-(z_2+c)=z_1-z_2$ @PVAL-inactive
Sorry that was in reply to Dany
@Kasmir: But I taught graduate courses. I don't have notes from the undergraduate course I taught 25 years ago.
Anonymous
@TedShifrin We still have two variables there. $z$ and $\theta$. I am not sure why and how you would get $\theta=0$
22:09
@Semiclassical o i see
@TedShifrin Oh that would be something more advanced for me =p I better keep reading the book and ask better questions later:D
@MikeMiller So if I call the total space $S$, $TS= V\oplus H$ splits into vertical and horizontal fibers, the splitting is induced by the Levi-Civita connection on the base $M$ in this case (I didn't think the details were relevant to this question---maybe they are?)
I'm not certain it helps but eh
@TedShifrin Thanks Ted !:)
Horizontal then means that $D_x f(v)$ is horizontal for any $v\in T_xM$
@PVAL-inactive Is it obviously absurd to you?
22:10
Hi chat
It's supposed to be---it just isn't to me.
So the base space is likewise a complex manifold, @Danu?
No, just even-dimensional and Riemannian
I mean the 0-section of any complex vector bundle over a complex base is a complex submanifold
I would think horizontal is trying to replicate something close to that
Sorry, I should clarify
22:14
Yeah, is this a principal bundle with a connection?
The absurdity is supposed to lie in the fact that this is way too restrictive---there should be more sections whose image is a holomorphic submanifold
Oh, I see.
@TedShifrin It's this bundle of complex structures over each point---but I don't think it matters for the argument
By holomorphic do you just mean pseudo-holomorphic?
Globally that seems nontrivial unless you can do compact perturbations
22:15
Hey! Don't know if this is the right place but:
I have a small question:
First:
There is not enough (for example) C Programs for all of the subsets of the natural numbers. So for example let M be a subset of natural numbers and P be a C Program which gives 1 with input n if n is an element of M. We cannot find for all subsets such a corresponding C Program. The reason is that there exists uncountably many subsets but only countably many C Programs.
I am trying to find another proof/counterexample for this question. We can encode M as an 0-1 sequence (n is in M iff the nth element of the seq
do you mean JTM=TM or do you want some integrability condition?
@Konformist: We're not computer scientists here.
@PVAL-inactive The argument is: Suppose the total space is (not just almost) complex and the image of the section is a holomorphic submanifold. The conclusion is that the image is horizontal---this is supposed to be a contradiction.
@Danu: Presumably you have to use some more information about the connection on this bundle.
There are lots of complex manifolds with very few complex submanifolds.
They're not projective, of course.
22:17
@TedShifrin This question is from a mathematics lecture and I think it is a discrete mathematics question and somewhat interdisciplinary. I am just trying my chances.
@MikeMiller Actually, the section is just supposed to be a local one. Does that make it trivial? Maybe it does.
Amounts to solving a PDE.
You mean Cauchy-Riemann? :P
@Konformist: If one set is countable (although I guess I have no idea why the set of C programs must be countable) and the other is uncountable (that I know), they can't be in correspondence. I don't know what you mean by a counterexample. One particular subset doesn't establish uncountability.
@Ted Because they can be typed in
22:19
@PVAL: Oh, countable union of finite?
Well the set of finite lists coming from a finite set is countable
COUNTABLE
@TedShifrin I do understand that solution. I want another solution. I am trying to find a specific M for which there is no C program
So is it clear that there are supposed to be more holo submanifolds coming from local sections than just horizontal ones?
And I am not asking for such a M. I am asking about my idea.
which i guess i just mean the union varying N along the positvie integers over maps from from ${N} \to X$ (if $X$ is finite) is countable
22:22
I have no idea how you associate a program to a set of natural numbers, so I give up.
Well I am assigning the inputs you can make on a computer to a finite set.
@Danu: You have to use more information. If you don't have a holomorphic base, I don't see why any section gives a holomorphic submanifold.
Eg. 3 1 7 m * ) _ | Enter etc.
So then I guess no infinite sequence corresponds to a program.
Well you can't type an infinite sequence in.
So I don't see how you code it.
22:25
So no infinite subset can be encoded by a program.
@TedShifrin hmm. I'll try to think on it some more.
I'm not being helpful, @Danu, but I don't think about this kind of thing at all.
@TedShifrin No, for example all even natural numbers can. See my first message again, where I explain the input and output of the corresponding program.
@Danu If the total space is an actual complex manifold, so is the base, and the fiber bundle projection is holomorphic then yes, you're literally solving CR.
Otherwise it's like J-CR.
I don't understand. How is an infinite sequence of 0s and 1s a C program, @Konformist?
22:32
This is a willful ignorance right?
@Ted
@TedShifrin We have a subset of natural numbers M. We want to create a program which gives 1 with input n if n is an element of M and 0 if not. And we can see this subset M as a 0-1 sequence. So for example 0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1... is a 0-1 sequence and the corresponding subset is even numbers (don't include 0 to natural numbers) and we can write a code which gives 1 if the input is even and 0 otherwise easily.
Oh, so how do you tell me which sequences are programmable?
Any sequence with a formula to produce it. What about the digits of $\pi$ (in dyadic)? Presumably that's not?
?????
Is this how I'm supposed teach?
I honestly do not understand. This is not my bailiwick.
Well, I do teach a lot by asking questions, @PVAL, but usually I have more idea what's going on.
@TedShifrin And the claim was that there are some 0-1 sequences, for which there is no corresponding program and one can prove this using the uncountable/countable argument. I want to find a direct counterexample which uses the idea of non-periodic (or a similar definition) seqeunces.
22:36
I don't get it either tbh, can't you just lagrange poly all the outputs back to the inputs?
Well you can't find a direct counterexample by sort of the nature of the question.
I understand the abstract claim, of course. But you're pretending that you have a recipe that can tell me if a particular sequence cannot be programmed. So explain that to me.
@PVAL-inactive Why not?
Like if you could, you would somehow have to do a process that cannot be replicated by a C program
@TedShifrin No, I don't have such a recipe unfortunately :).
22:38
I bet that flipping coin an infinite number of times will work with a probability of 100%
@PVAL-inactive Isn't this violating turing completeness?
@PVAL-inactive I still don't understand why finding a counterexample is impossible.
So I think we've established that what Konformist wants to do is impossible.
@Konformist: If you have no such recipe, you can't produce a concrete "counterexample."
I mean there are probably simple languages where you can describe definitely everything you could possibly do in these languages (even if they allowed for infinite programs)
,but I doubt thats possible to do in any functional one.
@TedShifrin 'I' don't have such a recipe. If non-existence of a recipe indicates the impossibility of finding a counterexample, than I would like to understand why there is no such recipe. And also I don't follow why this indication is true.
22:42
Pi in diadic should be (theoretically) very easy. There are series approximations for pi and one has plenty of error upper bounds for these series estimates to tell you when you have calculated a correct digit.
Hiya chat.
@Konformist Well there is only a countable amount of programs, but there a uncountably many such sequences ?
@PVAL-inactive also spigot formulas
My intuition (really wild guess) is that as long as a language can encode any finite Turing machine, there shouldn't be a way to tell if a given sequence can be encoded.
Because a programm is finite thus the cardinality of the set of programs if the same as the number of quasi-zero sequences
22:45
@Astyx As I said couple of times, I do understand that solution, I wrote that solution in my initial question.
Oh sorry, I've just arrived
What is the question then ?
I want to know if we can find a direct counterexample
And if we can, can we use some kind of "non-periodicy" idea.
What do you mean by find a direct counterexample ?
I mean technically compute any sequence you like using the program. Then change the first digit by 1
That would be your first number
Then compute any other sequence you like and change the second entry by 1
there's your second number
etc. should work as long as you would eventually type in all the programs
That's Cantor's diagonal proof
22:49
which is constructive in some senses of the word
and less so in others
Yeah :p
You know that there is a transcendental number of which the diadic expression is not computable
I understand that if we have 2 arbitrary sets, one is countable one is uncountable and a fixed element from the uncountable set, than we can choose a (non-surjective) injection from the countable set to uncountable set which cover this fixed element. So in this sense, we cannot find a counterexample.
But these sets are not arbirary, so I am not sure about this argument.
However any transcendental you can (as a human) come up with is necessarily computable
So my guess is the answer is : no there is not such a counterexample
@Astyx I disagree with that.
@PVAL Why ?
22:51
what are we doing
There's lots of transcendentals (or probably transcendentals) we know about which we don't know how to compute the digits of
Good night @Balarka :P
For instance volumes of hyperbolic manifolds
@Balarka trying to find a concrete example of a sequence of number which is not computable by a program
0
Q: Asymptotic to a sequence of algebraic numbers.

mickLet $f(n)$ be the largest real solution of $$x^n - x^{n-1} = 1 $$ As $n$ grows to positive infinity we get the asymptotic : $$ f(n) = 1 + \frac{\exp(2)}{n} + ...$$ Where the value $\exp(2)$ is optimal ! ( and $...$ means smaller term(s) ) Notice $f(2)$ is the golden mean. How to show this ...

22:52
@PVAL Can we not make approximations to deduce approximate values ?
Chaitin's constant mumble mumble
@Astyx We can but we don't have ones of arbitrary precision.
@PVAL Why not ? I'm intrigued
happy to resign from this computability discussion
@BalarkaSen Thanks!
22:53
Looks like LHF
@Ted Well I am trying to redirect it to geometry
My last question
LOL, so I saw, @PVAL.
@Konformist What did I help with
@Astyx Because we don't know how.
22:53
I have no idea what's going on
Go to sleep, @Balarka.
@BalarkaSen I was looking for such an example.
Previous question of mine got overlooked, so I'll repost it here and hope for better luck:
wut.
@PVAL Fair enough reason :p However that does not mean that there is no programm capable of computing it
22:55
> Just curious, for which rational $c_i$ can the algebraic number $\sqrt{c_1+c_2\sqrt{c_3}}$ be "flattened," i.e., written such that there are no nested radicals?
It's possible for some $c_i$, such as if $c_1=d_1^2+d_2^2d_3,c_2=2d_1d_2,c_3=d_3$ for some $d_i$
Then, $\sqrt{c_1+c_2\sqrt{c_3}}=d_1+d_2\sqrt{d_3}$ (excepting negative things, etc., they can be dealt with separately)
But yeah, are these the only solutions?
I didn't say that it did. You said that any transcendental number we come up with must be computable
That is very much likely not the case.
@Legion: That's a classic question that's usually addressed in abstract algebra courses (Galois theory). $\sqrt{a+\sqrt b}$ can be written as a sum of square roots of rationals if and only if $\sqrt{a^2-b}$ is rational.
@TedShifrin Lol, currently only really know Algebra II
I looked at Galois theory and it looks scary
You can derive it intuitively, but probably not prove what I said, without more, @Legion.
But that is the answer.
If $\alpha=\sqrt{a+\sqrt b}=\sqrt c+\sqrt d$ then it'll turn out that $\beta = \sqrt{a-\sqrt b}=\sqrt c-\sqrt d$ (if you make the right choice). Now play with it.
Why doesn't everyone just state their thoughts clean and simple like ted
4
22:59
@Mick: Because often we don't know how?
I was lucky with this one. I did this in the abstract algebra book I wrote :P
my thoughts are all a complicated mess.
I guess, but I swear I encounter people avoiding things like using an $=$ in a sentence, for example.
Go to sleep (for the nth time) @Balarka!

« first day (2389 days earlier)      last day (2929 days later) »