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12:00
@user21820 So from what you guys discussed above, since "therefore" is given by $A\land (A\rightarrow B)$, it does look like we selected the row of the $A\to B$ truth table where "$A$ is true" ,and hence getting the same result as $A \wedge B$ for $A$ true
@Secret: Yes. It just means that the boolean algebra of classical logic does not completely capture English words like "therefore". Another common culprit is "even if".
I will not go even if you ask me a thousand times.
wait lets go back a bit. Is there a difference between selecting a row of $A\rightarrow B$ where A is true and simplifying an expression $A\land (A\rightarrow B)$ into $A\land B$?
Up until now I thought they were different. But in this case they give the same results. (the two methods that is)
You don't select a single row.
You just check that no matter what row you select they agree.
Checking the truth-table amounts to using the semantics. Simplifying by boolean algebra amounts to using the syntax. They are both supposed to agree.
i probaly confused you with my wording a bit.
Lets say I have a truth table for $A\rightarrow B$; If I select the rows in it where A is true
will the expressions I can form from the information in the selected rows be the same as what I would obtain by simplifying A∧(A→B) ?
@user21820 what do you mean by $\in$ ?
ln(1+1/x) = 1/x - O(1/x^2) ?
12:11
@user400188 Oh I was more trying to make Secret's phrasing more accurate, since I said "Yes." without looking too carefully. As to your question here, yes because the semantics of "A and C" correspond to all worlds where both "A" and "C" are true, so you can first restrict to worlds where "A" is true and then see which of those also satisfy "C".
@LittleRookie "∈" is to make the statement precise. As x -> 0, we have x^2 ∈ O(x) but not x ∈ O(x^2).
I never knew that was a way of obtaining simplifications. I had noticed it was true for a few cases; but I didnt know it worked all the time.
So I hate to use "=" (Wikipedia also states it as an abuse of notation), even though a lot of textbooks do.
i could see that ln(1+1/x) can be written as the polynomial 1/x + remainder term.
And the remainder term is O(1/x^2).
is that right?
Small question: Given a homogeneous linear recurrence relation with constant integer coefficients, is there an easy (i.e., arithmetical, implementing this in Mathematica here) method for determining its ordinary generating function?
I've gotten it the other way around
@LittleRookie It's not a polynomial. It's just 1/x + remainder. And the remainder is bounded by some constant times 1/x^2.
You can treat asymptotic notation like it identifies a class of functions.
12:16
Right, its not a polynomial here. My bad.

But i could not understand how ln(1+ (1/x) ) = O(1/x)
Why? If ln(1+1/x) ∈ 1/x + O(1/x^2), surely ln(1+1/x) ∈ O(1/x) as well.
Because 1/x -> 0 so c*|1/x^2| is eventually < |1/x|.
For any real c.
So the O notation here only applies to x - > infinity, i.e. 1/x -> 0 ?
Yes absolutely right.
for 1/x very close to 0?
This big O notation is so confusing :(
All that you actually need is 1/x -> 0, and this is guaranteed to hold if x -> infinity.
It's not that confusing, always look for the biggest terms as the asymptotic parameter goes to the limit.
A good textbook will always be precise and state the limiting condition.
12:21
yep it did says that x --> infinity
Great; that's what does the trick.
Once you get used to it, it is extremely easy to use. For example you can easily substitute anything that goes to zero for x in the asymptotic expansion for ln(1+x), such as ln(1+x^2) ∈ x^2 + O(x^4) as x -> 0.
One of the many reasons I want to explore $\mathcal{C}^{\alpha}(\mathbb{R})$:
1
Q: Approach on solving limit equation systems and finding some f given assymptotes?

SecretThis is a "reverse" question of finding the asymptote of a function Recently, I am interested in doing some sort of modelling which involve equations of the form $$@(t)=1-f(t)$$ where $f(t)$ is required to satisfy the following properties $$1^*:\left\{\begin{matrix}f(0)=0 \\ \lim_{t\rightarro...

The current ongoing discussion might be relevant
@Secret Unfortunately I can only recommend getting experience. I do it in an ad-hoc manner.
Sometimes I wonder whether Big O notation can help simplify the expressions of limits, but I guess it only works for those that converge or asymptotes to something
tanh is a nice function to know, and it's called an activation function, because it is like a smoothed version of a step function and can be used to implement smoothed conditional expressions.
12:29
I see
@Secret But especially for physics applications you should look at splines, specifically cubic parametrized splines.
Bye everyone. I'm heading off
If I recall correctly they are the actual curves formed by a uniformly bendable rod when forced to obey point constraints (position and angle) and length constraints (arc length between points).
@user400188: Bye!
Can the finite form of taylor series consist of only one term?

In terms of Taylor polynomial + Remainder, the one term would be the remainder?
@LittleRookie Depends on what you mean by remainder. Certainly if you have only one term then it's the remainder all by itself. But if you're referring to say en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor%27s_theorem, then the terminology is already determined.
12:34
So nobody here can answer my questions? The summations, etc. on the lecture notes found online are a bit confusing...
@LegionMammal978: More like people missed your comment. Isn't it easier this way around.. namely from recurrence relation to generating function?
Homogenous linear recurrence relation with constant coefficients can be solved analytically by substituting $y=x^{\lambda}$?
@user21820 Seems like it, according to the PowerPoint presentations on it
@Secret $y=x^\lambda$?
I forgot, I think I need to revise...
Suppose f is the formal power series for sequence a[0..].. Namely, f(x) = a[0] x^0 + a[1] x^1 + ... So just plug that into the linear recurrence relation.
And cancel everything out except the first few terms of each row.
For example Fibonacci sequence is generated by a[n+2] - a[n+1] - a[n] = 0.
12:38
Yeah, learnt something similar in my differential equation undergrad course 4 years ago
But I guess they are currently not in my working memory
So compute formally f(x) - x f(x) - x^2 f(x), writing each term as a row and aligning the powers of x.
You should get everything cancelling except a triangular portion of monomials. Those would depend on your initial conditions, and that's the only place where the initial conditions come in.
Okay
(btw, I did generating functions to relations by taking the denominator's coefficients and then just evaluating the first few terms of the series)
Well yes, but it's actually more work. If you follow what I said it should be obvious.
I mean, the other direction is obvious.
So would it work like
  0x^0 + 1x^1 + 1x^2 + 2x^3 + ...
       - 0x^1 - 1x^2 - 1x^3 - ...
              - 0x^2 - 1x^3 - ...
= 0x^0 + 1x^1 + 0x^2 + 0x^3 + ...
= x
?
Right.
Of course, you should do it symbolically to see how it works in general, but I think you get the picture.
The recurrence relation causes every column to cancel except those with an incomplete column.
12:47
So the denominator is just retrieved from the coefficients, and the numerator is determined from the process above. Correct?
@BalarkaSen this is open for spheres, but are there 4 dimensional manifolds which are homeomorphic but not diffeomorphic?
does anyone know the idea of the proof of uniform convergence of power series using wierstrass test?
(not to intrude, but the picture you have up there (with the series) reminds me of Euler products)
Is there an easy way to check whether an element of $\Lambda^2(\Bbb R^n)$ is decomposable as a wedge of two vectors?
@KasmirKhaan Wikipedia does
12:52
can you explain to me how to prove divergence when abs (x) > R ?
R is the radius of convergence
@AlessandroCodenotti Yes.
@Danu If something is like $\alpha = v \wedge w$, then $\alpha \wedge \alpha$ is zero, right? That's an obstruction.
Oh, that's a good point.
One of the exercises I'm looking at is of the form: Here's a shitty sum of bivectors---decompose it into a wedge of two vectors.
I'm wondering if there's anything better than trial and error
@Alessandro In fact there are manifolds homoemorphic to R^4 but not diffeomorphic to it.
@LegionMammal978 Correct.
Thanks! (Have to actually implement this now...)
12:59
@Danu Well there's always the horrible way of going about it, by writing out two generic 1-vectors w.r.t your basis and wedging to obtain a set of linear equations...
@user21820 using taylor theorem, ln(1+x) = ln(1+0) + f'(\xi)*x = 1/(1+\xi(x))*x , where \xi(x) is in between x and 0.

So can i use this to say ln(1+(1/x)) = 1/(1+\xi(1/x))*(1/x) = O(1/x) ?
But the cute way is always to find tricks
I can't give you anything specific unless you tell me about the bivector though
@LittleRookie It is in fact correct, but it is much more cumbersome to justify it than the way I gave you earlier.
@BalarkaSen Yeah, I did that.
But that was terrible.
We would do it as follows.
13:01
Yeah :(
$e_1e_2+e_1e_4-e_2e_3+e_3e_4$
@BalarkaSen I would have expected some very contrived and unintuitive example, but I was wrong
on $\Bbb R^4$
@Danu Well you can write that as 1(2 + 4) + 3(2 + 4)
By switching -23 into 32
...right.
And then?
13:03
And then that's (1 + 3)(2 + 4)
ool
lol*
how come I didn't see that? D'oh!
thanks
The version I gave you actually already had some switches w.r.t. the original formulation
@BalarkaSen how to prove that a power serie diverges when abs(x) > R ?
No problem. It's the simple things that gets us into trouble sometimes (I know from experience)
I just stopped one short :P
Ah, I see
13:04
@LittleRookie ln(1+1/x) ∈ 1/(1+O(1/x))*1/x = (1+O(1/x)) * 1/x = 1/x + O(1/x^2). In general, 1/(1+O(f)) = 1+O(f) as f -> 0.
I was focused on ordering them from low to high
Yeah, you gotta play with the antisymmetry.
@AlessandroCodenotti It's very cool, that fact about R^4. I have no idea how to construct such a thing
In fact there are 4-manifolds homeomorphic but not diffeomotphic to R^4 which even smoothly embed in R^4!!
Known as small exotic R4's, iirc
There is a not-so-terrible example that I learned recently---not for $\Bbb R^4$ though
good guys ;)
13:08
What's an example of exotic $\mathbb{R}^4$ that is intuitive enough to e.g. write down its explicit equation or something?
@BalarkaSen But proving that they're not diffeomorphic is done using Seiberg-Witten invariants.
@Secret I doubt very much there is anything intuitive about them. The small ones (which do embed in R^4) must be extremely fractal-like
Hmm I see, I remember a very long time ago reading some popsci article, they said they mostly look like sponges of some kind
Eg, google the picture of Casson handle
Heya =)
Anyone using shareleatex here?
13:12
@Danu I see. What were the manifolds?
...of course I forgot. One of them was $3\Bbb{C}P^2\# 19\overline{\Bbb{C}P^2}$
(or was it 20?)
Oh
maybe the other one was $K3\# \overline{\Bbb{C}P^2}$?
or $\bar{K3}$?
Ah, I see. Right, blown up fellows admit a lot of smooth structures
I don't have my notes here...
At least the manifolds are sort of explicitly given in this example :)
And they're not too strange looking
Do you remember the $b_2^{\pm}$ for $K3$?
was it 3/19?
Yeah, I think 3/19
and then the point was that $K3\#\overline{\Bbb C P^2}$ is homeo to $3\Bbb CP^2\# 20\overline{\Bbb C P^2}$ by Freedman (using that the intersection form is the same) but not diffeo by SW invariants.
13:17
Makes sense.
Since I think the former admits nonzero invariants while the latter doesn't because it has an embedded sphere which represents an infinite order homology class and has zero self-intersection.
Maybe there's a straightforward way to show that they're homeomorphic, by writing down a birational morphism between $K_3$ and something and using resolution of singularities...
@BalarkaSen wtf that's very weird
I'll known more precisely once I study for the exam :P
Actually no, that wouldn't do. That wouldn't tell me if they're homeomorphic after blowing up once or twice or blowing up then blowing down or whatever
13:20
...in a few weeks.
@BalarkaSen I wish I knew how to prove Freedman's theorem :P
@Alessandro It's a strange world we live in
@Danu I only know about Casson handles and love the idea (I don't know how it works though)
I don't know anything about 4-manifold topology
That's how they proved the h-cobordism theorem for dimension 4.
me neither
@Alessandro Another way to parse that is that there's an open subset of R^4 of the same topology as R^4 but not diffeomorphic to R^4. Crazy, eh?
What's nice is that there's some sort of an analogue happening for R^3. There's an open subset of R^3 of the same homotopy type as R^3, but not homeomorphic to R^3
@user21820 can i ask, O(x^2) / x = O(x)?
@BalarkaSen Is that a fractal also?
13:27
@BalarkaSen I checked---the manifold I told you are correct, I think. You need this big theorem due to Taubes (on symplectic manifolds) to see that the former has nonzero SW invariants.
@Danu Thanks.
@Secret Yeah. It's the Whitehead manifold.
crazy indeed
I wonder if one can prove all these "exotic counterexamples" are always fractals...
They're not literally fractals... they're just fractal-like.
@DanielFischer Let $\mathscr{T}$ be the collection of subsets of $\Bbb R$ consisting of $\emptyset, \Bbb R$ and the rays of the form $(a, \infty)$, where $a \in \Bbb R$. I find that any bijective maps of $\Bbb{R}$ with the usual topology that are increasing are also homeomorphism for $\mathscr{T}.$ But $f(x)=-x$ is not a homeomorphism for $\mathscr{T}$ because $f((a,+\infty))=(-\infty,-a)$ which is not open.
I would like to prove that the set of homeomorphism of $T$ is of index $2$ in $\Bbb{R}$ with the usual topology. So I must write any homeomorphism for $\Bbb{R}_{\mbox{usual}}$ as two "class"
13:38
Meanwhile, I am currently procrastinating in Munkres, probably because I struggle between too lazy to do the exercise in Ch. 1 Sec 11 and I need to do those exercise to ensure I will not run into problems in well ordered sets in later chapters
Does anyone know what the constant of integration is in general, or is it something mathematicians choose to ignore?
It is used to show that the integral is in general a family of functions differ only by a constant. It's value is specified by the initial conditions and boundary conditions in differential equations
2
@Secret differential equations?
have you came across differential equations before?
@Secret No I have not.
I learned about them in my engineering education, but I have not used them since and I don't remember them.
13:51
Well, they are basically equations involving the unknown function y and its derivatives. For example:

$\frac{d^2y}{dx^2}+xy=x+y$
Solving for $y$ is the same as "integrating" the equation
@Secret Yes that much I know.
If you were still in engineering or science, you might came across them again as they are important in describing the dynamics of your construction and systems
I am aware of that. But I don't know how to set up a differential equation. I know what my integral is but I don't see how it relates to differential equations other than the constant of integration connection you now told me about.
Hi, I will be very pleased if you mind to response this question. Thanks a lot...
@MatsGranvik Here's an example: Suppose you know that k(x) is your solution to e.g. the above differential equation I wrote. Then if you sub in y=k(x)+C where C is a constant, you will find it also satisfy the differential equation. However suppose now I give an initial condition that k(0)=r, where r is some given number, you will notice there's only one possible C that will work, thus you solution is k(x)+F where F is a number such that it satisfy k(0)=r also
So a differential equation is basically showing how y changes and y is your integral, which is all the changes in the system summed up and collected together
In fact, one can pick any known integral $\int f(x) dx = g(x)+C$, differentiate both sides by x, and it can be rearranged so that you have g and its derivatives forming an equation, that's is one of the example of a differential equation
the key is that derivative of constant evaluates to zero, thus there are a family of solutions for a given differential equation unless the initial condition is specified, which pick out one of the C
14:18
Need a quick sanity check: does something like $\frac{\mathbb{Z}}{\mathbb{Z}^4}$ make sense? Where $\mathbb{Z}^4$ is the free abelian group on 4 generators.
@JeSuis Not sure if I understand correctly what you want. The homeomorphisms with respect to $T$ are precisely the increasing homeomorphisms with respect to the standard topology. We get a map $\pi \colon \operatorname{homeo}(\operatorname{standard}) \to \operatorname{homeo}(T)$ by setting $\pi(f) = f$ if $f$ is increasing and $\pi(f) = -f$ if $f$ is decreasing.
@IrregularUser Define $\frac{}{\mathbb{Z}^4}$ Are you talking about taking a quotient?
@Secret Yep
@DanielFischer this is exactly what I want, thanks!
@Secret These are a quotient of free abelian groups
14:24
If $\mathbb{Z}^4$ is a normal subgroup of $\mathbb{Z}$ then yes it will be well defined
@LittleRookie Yes (if x != 0).
@Secret I'm not sure if it's normal, but the context is that I'm trying to calculate homology groups. In the end, I ended up with a group generated by one generator, and another group generated by a countably infinite number of generators
Hello everyone! I'm stuck trying to find the minima and maxima of a function, anyone willing to help?
Unfortunately, my group theory knowledge is still preliminary, I don't know of any theorems that can help me to check for normal subgroup of infinite groups quickly other than kinda brute force it.
@Secret Thanks for the try anyway!
14:28
@user21820 i see, i have an expression ... = (h^2)/3 + O(h^4) = O(h^2)

But i can't understand the relation between O(h^4) and O(h^2), here h --> 0.
:(
10
Q: What's an easy way of proving a subgroup is normal?

ScharfschützeI think in most situations(for example, in $S_n$ or $D_n$), proving by definition is too complicated because you have to calculate $gng^{-1}$ for every $n$ in $N$ and $g$ in $G$. To prove that all the left cosets are also right cosets is also too complicated because you have to find all those cos...

@user21820 <-- See here. The same reasoning I gave there works here.
Intuitively it is obvious because anything in O(h^4) goes to zero at least as fast as h^2, as h -> 0.
So h^2/3 + O(h^4) ⊆ O(h^2) + O(h^2) = O(h^2).
@user21820 Ugh, after studying all those big number stuff, I'm so tired XD
hmmm... in such context since $\mathbb{Z}^4$ is finitely generated, this makes computing $gxg^{-1}$ easier as there are really only 4 $x$ one need to worry about. However when there are countably infinite number of such $x$ then $\mathbb{Z}^{\aleph_0 ?}$ is not finitely generated, and that I have no idea
@SimplyBeautifulArt Hahahaha.. You should study logic. I'd say it's even more interesting than big numbers.
14:37
I suppose
that I will
What I am suspecting is that $\mathbb{Z} \subset \mathbb{Z}^n$ for all finite $n$ though, thus free abelian groups might not be subgroups of $\mathbb{Z}$, let alone a normal subgroup
@user21820 Do you think your number will be bigger than this?
6
Q: Prove that every subgroup of an abelian group is a normal subgroup.

Cookie Prove that every subgroup of an abelian group is a normal subgroup.

now that's a useful result since $\mathbb{Z}$ is also abelian. It then remains to check whether $\mathbb{Z} \supset \mathbb{Z}^n$ which I suspect to be no
@user21820 i thought of that too. Can you write that reasoning in a more rigorous way?
@SimplyBeautifulArt It's easier to ask to compare the growth of functions. Asking which number is bigger is less meaningful and a bit harder. Though in the case of your contest, of course we're comparing numbers.
@LittleRookie Which step[s] do you want me to provide more justification?
> h^2/3 + O(h^4) ⊆ O(h^2) + O(h^2) = O(h^2) as h -> 0.
14:49
here u wrote
Because 1/x -> 0 so c*|1/x^2| is eventually < |1/x|.
For any real c.
It isn't that hard to check that all subgroups of $\mathbb Z$ are cyclic @Secret
Ok let's prove that O(x^3) ⊆ O(x^2) rigorously so that you get the general idea.
As x -> 0, that is.
Also in abelian groups $gxg^{-1}=x$
@PaulPlummer $\mathbb{Z}/n$ are the obvious ones, I don't recall the more wacky ones (if any). I only remember the theorem that allow the decomposition of a group into cyclic groups of prime powers applies to finite groups only
There aren't others
14:52
Those are not subgroups, $n\mathbb{Z}$ are the subgroups. What you are talking about are the quotients
oops
Woops, right, I was thinking about nZ, as Paul said
Hi, can anyone answer a simple question regarding vectors?
Given any variables x,y such that x -> 0:
| If y in O(x^3):
| | Let c > 0 such that [eventually] |y| <= c |x^3|.
| | Note that [eventually] |x| <= 1.
| | Thus [eventually] |y| <= c |x^2|*|x| <= c |x^2|.
| | Thus y in O(x^2).
| Therefore O(x^3) ⊆ O(x^2).
I am also suspecting $\mathbb{Z}$ is a subgroup of $\mathbb{Z}^n$ (defined as the free abelian group of n generators), not the other way around, since one can generate all the elements of $\mathbb{Z}$ by picking the words $ex \in \mathbb{Z}^n$ for all $x$ where $e$ is the identity
14:55
@LittleRookie: ^ See above.
Given vector A=
In any group, if $g$ is not torsion then the group generated by $g$ is isomorphic to $\mathbb Z$
@AlessandroCodenotti Go back to the complement countable topology, for connected sets, I get $\Bbb{R}$ and singletons, is that correct ?
I don't think so. How do you prove that $\Bbb R$ is connected?
40 mins ago, by Irregular User
Need a quick sanity check: does something like $\frac{\mathbb{Z}}{\mathbb{Z}^4}$ make sense? Where $\mathbb{Z}^4$ is the free abelian group on 4 generators.
32 mins ago, by Irregular User
@Secret I'm not sure if it's normal, but the context is that I'm trying to calculate homology groups. In the end, I ended up with a group generated by one generator, and another group generated by a countably infinite number of generators
14:58
@AlessandroCodenotti it's hyperconnected
Hmm, in that case, the quotient suggested here will be the trivial group since free abelian groups have no torsion
@user21820 i agree. thanks.
The quotient doesn't even make sense
@LittleRookie: Note that I'm not using the very formal ε-δ definition of limits, because all you need is to be able to understand the reasoning I've presented, and it can be made rigorous by using sequences. Namely the above proof would expand to "Given any sequence x converging but avoiding 0, if y is a sequence in O(x^3) then ..."
I don't know what that means @JeSuis
15:00
it means that given two non empty open sets the intersection is non trivial
Right. What about uncountable subsets?
Aren't they hyperconnected too?
yeah of course.. ^^
@PaulPlummer is it because $\mathbb{Z} \subset \mathbb{Z}^n$?
Z^4 is not a subgroup of Z
@AlessandroCodenotti The Cantor set?
15:02
What Balarka said
@AlessandroCodenotti but the set of countable complement are not connected right
@Fargle cocountable topology
Right, every subgroup of a cyclic group must be cyclic, and $\Bbb Z^4$ is not
@AlessandroCodenotti Ahhhh.
Is Z a subgroup of Z^4 as I can pick the words $ex$ (e is identity) in Z^4 and get all elements of Z?
Can you write them as a disjoint union of open sets?
15:06
no
If I take a set $A$ to be the complement of countable set the equality $A\cup U\cup V=\emptyset$ is impossible if $U$ and $V$ are non empty, so it means that one of them must be the empty set, so it's connected
15:19
ok nvm, every subgroup of a free abelian group is also free abelian. Since Z is free abelian of one generator, it is a subgroup of Z^n for any n
25 mins ago, by Paul Plummer
In any group, if $g$ is not torsion then the group generated by $g$ is isomorphic to $\mathbb Z$
Z is torsion free, since the only g in Z that satisfy g^n=e is g=e
The point is, if you have a group $G$, unless it is composed of only torsion elements, then there is a subgroup isomorphic to $\mathbb Z$ @Secret
@BalarkaSen What are you up to?
So using that line of thought, Z^n also contains torsion free elements, thus it must contain a subgroup that is isomorphic to Z. Hence Z^n > Z?
15:32
seems my theorem side of group theory is still shit. will worry about that later after topology...
15:50
@BalarkaSen $ababa^{-2}b^{-2}=(aba^{-1}b^{-1})(ba^2b^{-1}a^{-2})(a^2b^2a^{-2}b^{-2})$
$=[a,b][a^2,b]^{-1}[a^2,b^2]$
And, assuming that $\{[a^n,b^m]\mid m,n\in\Bbb Z\setminus\{0\}\}$ has no nontrivial relations (which I'm sure it doesn't), that's the only way to write $ababa^{-2}b^{-2}$ in terms of those generators.
Munkres p.79, an example where the word proof is a lot cleaner than the diagram (13.3)
[Random idea]
Limit functions:

$f(x)=\lim_{y\to x}g(y)$
NB No idea what they are useful for
@AkivaWeinberger The proper 'Merican version of that: i.sstatic.net/SjCdW.png
Hah.
RIP India
New Zealand is looking better on it, though
16:25
@AkivaWeinberger Ah neat.
@PaulPlummer Not much math lately. Might do some tonight.
It's easy to see through the cover corresponding to it (it's a grid)
ofc
Thanks
@BalarkaSen By the way, a while ago I mentioned something else in group theory, which I misstated. The real question is, if a group has $a^2=b^2$ for some elements $a$ and $b$, must it have an element of order $2$.
Can anyone please clarify something in this question? Given vector $A= (2,-1,-1)$ and vector $C=(0,1,1)$, $C$ rotates about $A$ with an angular velocity of 2 rad/s . Find the velocity of the head of $C$. As velocity is the cross product of angular velocity $w$ and $r$ and $w$ is in the direction of $A$, so the velocity should be a cross product of $A$ and $C$? If so, where does the angular velocity 2 rad/s fit in?
And, if not, can you find a finite counterexample.
16:32
the trivial group?
@MikeMiller $a\ne b$, I forgot to say
(The misstated version was whether it must be commutative, but it clearly doesn't; two transpositions in $S_3$ work and they don't commute.)
infinite dihedral group does have that
Infinite dihedral group has elements of order 2, though
Ah, you're looking for stuff which don't have order 2 elements. Sorry.
I want one that doesn't have an element of order two, or a proof that such groups don't exist
Yeah
And, also, if there do exist counterexamples, I'd want to know if there exist finite counterexamples as well.
16:37
Does <a, b|a^2 = b^2> have any?
Hi Semiclassic, Balarka, DogAteMy
Such a group (if it exists) can't be commutative because of ab^-1, right?
Hi @Ted, buon compleanno!
Yeah @AlessandroCodenotti
Hi, Alessandro. Grazie.
16:41
I am confused
Sorry
I meant, $\langle a,b\mid a^2=b^2\rangle$ might have elements of order two, but I won't tell you whether or not it does
I didn't mean to be so cryptic
@AkivaWeinberger Is this question something you don't know? Is seems quite reasonable that $\langle a, b \mid a^2=b^2 \rangle$ would have finite quotient with the property you desire.
(also it doesn't have an element of order 2)
<a, b | a^2 = b^2> is $\pi_1$ of the Klein bottle, right? I doubt there's a loop of finite order in K.
@PaulPlummer No, it's something I know. I was just bringing it up because I misstated it earlier. It's not that hard
Ah, you're right. I was trying to see if that was the case. Which proves there's no element of order 2.
16:51
@MikeMiller Right, because it's a K(G, 1). It's gotta be torsion-free.
(Any finite order isometry of Euclidean space has a fixed point.)
Otherwise you can't be a finite CW complex
hi@TedShifrin how to prove the divergence of a power serie for abs(x) > R
There is a nice fact about one relator groups that the only time you have torsion is when the relator is a proper power (after cyclic reductions and stuff like that)
You might be able to prove that finite quotients always have an order 2 element by studying covers of the Klein bottle.
16:55
I like how three of us came up with three different arguments
17:07
Hello !
18:05
@Mahmoud اَلسَّلاَ مُ عَلَيْكُمْ وَرَحْمَةُ اللهِ وَبَرَكَا تُهُ
I want to apply for math graduate programs!
My GPA is low though...
Should I start with MA?
@Fawad وعليك السلام ورحمة الله وبركاته
18:24
Can someone check this answer,I think something is wrong
2
A: Prove that $\left (\frac{1}{a}+1 \right)\left (\frac{1}{b}+1 \right)\left (\frac{1}{c}+1 \right) \geq 64.$

NirbhayHere is a "simple" proof utilizing GM-HM inequality. Use GM-HM inequality on the set $\{\frac{a+1}{a},\frac{b+1}{b},\frac{c+1}{c}\} $ to get: $$\left(\,\left(\frac{a+1}{a}\right)\left(\frac{b+1}{b}\right)\left(\frac{c+1}{c}\right)\,\right)^\frac{1}{3} \geq \frac {3} {\left(\frac{a}{a+1}\right)...

Sie
Sie
18:57
Can someone help me complete this truth table?

p | q | p -> q | ~(p ->q)
T T T
T F T
F T F
F F F
19:13
Well that took a while. Reading a paper, and they define subsurface projections, but the annulus case has a different definition than the other case, but they give no indication as to why, and I think I figured out why
What's that?
Subsurface projections? If you remember what the arc and curve graph are, and have a subsurface you can "project" your curves in the curve graph of you original surface, to all the arcs and curves that are formed in the intersection of the subsurface with the curve
@BalarkaSen @MikeMiller @PaulPlummer Also, finite groups like that must have an element of order $2$, because suppose not. Then $a$ and $b$ must have odd order. Call the order of $a$, $n$. That means that $a=a^{n+1}=(a^2)^{(n+1)/2}=(b^2)^{(n+1)/2}=b^{n+1}$, which commutes with $b$. Thus, $a$ commutes with $b$, and $ab^{-1}$ is an element of order two.
at least that is how it is for everything but the annulus
(They can't have even order because then $a^{n/2}$ would work.)
19:17
@Sie all but the first of your entries in the third column are incorrect
(So the main reason is that, in finite groups, all elements have finite order.)
@PaulPlummer Gotcha
@Akiva Right. I didn't think much about the finite case after that counterexample
@AkivaWeinberger I had essentially the same proof, although thought of it a bit differently: $\langle a \rangle \cap \langle b \rangle= \langle a^2 \rangle$, but if your group has no order two elements $\langle a^2 \rangle = \langle a \rangle =\langle b \rangle $ so $a$ and $b$ commute and we have a problem.
Yeah.
My original line of thinking was to define $c:=a^2=b^2$ and realize that it commutes with them both. And then a little bit of thinking of what happens with odd orders leads to that $a$ is a power of $c$, and then I think, "Oh, no!"
Sie
Sie
@Paradox101 I got them mixed up. It's supposed to be F, F, T, T for p and then T, T, F, F for q.
19:29
My proof that $\langle a,b\mid a^2=b^2\rangle$ has no elements of order two was just to draw the Cayley graph.
Sie
Sie
I don't understand how to get ~(p->q) into table form. Truth tables just don't click for me.
@BalarkaSen For the annulus case, you want to be able to keep track of Dehn twists, but if you are working on a surface, and you have a curve twisted up by a Dehn twist within an annulus, you can homotope that section and push the "Dehn twisted" part to some different annulus, losing all the information.
Sie
Sie
Anyone know of any good videos on them? I wasn't able to find a Khan Academy video on them unfortunately which usually help me a lot.
It's a grid; on even points, $a$ goes down and $b$ goes to the right, and on odd points, they're switched. (So, powers of $a$ lead you in a staircase-like path.)
Sie
Sie
@AkivaWeinberger Was that to me? I still don't really get how you start the first parts of the table. Like once I get the table started it makes more sense.
19:32
@Akiva Meh, I prefer the topological proof(s). :)
You write down every possible combination of true and false for your variable, that is how you get started @Sie
@Sie It was not to you
But yeah, that works.
Sie
Sie
@PaulPlummer I thought my first table was wrong though? Does the order really matter as long as the amount of trues and falses are proper?
It does not matter what order you do the true false for (p,q) as long as you have all of them @Sie
Sie
Sie
19:35
Ok. Thanks.
That is all the table is, recording every possible starting point, and seeing what happens
@Sie your initial columns for p and q are correct, just not the implication one. If you have F,F,T,T for p and T,T,F,F for q, then you'll be repeating two rows and your truth table will be incomplete
Lots of people explain how to set it up, in a sort of easy to remember way, without explaining why, but it doesn't really matter what order you do it in
@Akiva It sounds like a generalization of your technique will prove Paul's theorem that one-relator groups are cyclic iff it's word^m = 1
Is there an easy way to prove that
$$
\|f_r\|_{L^p} := \frac{1}{2\pi }\int_{-\pi}^\pi |f(r e^{i\theta})|^p \mathrm{d}\theta \ , \qquad (1 \leq p \leq \infty)
$$
is increasing with $0\leq r < 1$ ?
19:40
I should work some more on foliations
@BalarkaSen The fix is that you look at the cover corresponding to the cyclic subgroup from the annulus, which will be an open annulus, then you put a hyperbolic metric on it, so that you can define a boundary. When you lift a curve crossing through the downstairs annulus and you can still see the dehn twists upstairs even if you start to homotope downstairs
@PaulPlummer I'm not sure if I follow all of that, but I appreciate the explanation :)
Basically in the annulus cover of your surface you can see dehn twists around the core of an annulus (the center circle) even if the dehn twist was homotoped on the surface, so it is no longer around that core, but a different core of a different annulus (but the cores are homologous)
ah, makes sense
20:04
@MikeMiller Suppose you embed a possibly knotted torus in S^3. To show that it bounds a handlebody on some side, can you do the folllowing?: This is a circle bundle over some fixed longitude in the torus. Each disk in the fiber bounds a disk by Schoenflies - fill it in. The result should be a fiber bundle; orientable disk bundles over the circle are trivial
actually maybe there is a thing to worry about. There's no canonical way to pick the disk the fibers bound, so it's not really well-defined. Can this be fixed?
I don't think so. You haven't addressed that this only works on one side.
Any French-speaking people here? I've come across a translating issue: does "homéomorphisme sur image" mean that the image is open?
Yeah, the circles might bound disks which intersect each other. There's nothing stopping that
Well, yikes
@barto Am I right if in English, "homeomorhpism onto image" does not require the image to be open?
@barto French have some subtly different conventions sometimes, especially in topology
Also, just to clarify, I mean everything smoothly/locally flatly
20:14
@barto I believe @Astyx and @TedShifrin know French
20:26
Hey!
20:49
that means "homeomorphism on its image" @barto
consider the map wrapping $[0,1)$ on the unit circle bijectively, that's not an homeomorphism on its image
I don't know if there is a convention, but in some cases you get that the image is open as a theorem (like some invariance of domain stuff), which may be the case for what you are trying to translate.
In English I have not seen that convention

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