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18:00
We lose isomorphisms under homotopy equivalence
thanks Null
The 1-dimensional "homology" group of the circle becomes impressive, (though I think the 1-dimensional "homology" group of $\Bbb R^2\setminus\{0\}$ stays at $\Bbb Z$)
Conjecture: Call the cycles-modulo-boundary groups of dimension $n$ created when we restrict attention to injective simplices $G_n(X)$. Then, for large enough $m$, we have $H_n(X)=G_n(X\times\Bbb R^m)$.
That's $“\forall n\exists M\forall m\ge M”$
In fact, maybe we only need $m$ to be $1$?
18:19
Anyone know of a good page for the most elementary properties of certain Lie Algebras?
Like a list of properties and the centers of $\mathfrak{gl}_n$, $\mathfrak{sl}_n$ etc. etc.
Need to sleep again, ugh, I will try to figure out how to derive $x-x=0x^2$ tomorrow
Why do human beings need to sleep, so annoying
18:42
for the u substitution of sin(x)*cos(x)/(1+sin^2(x)) dx, if taking 1+sin^2(x) as u, then du = 2sin(x)*cos(x) dx...how would I substitute that in when I need to substitute du for half of that
sin(x)cos(x)dx=du/2
what is the second thing for row echolon form? all lines start with a 1 (or 0) and? ...
I need to
it is specified that I need to use that substitution
du/2, I was thinking of that, but can you do that? as in how would you proceed with the integration?
I was saying something silly in any case.
$\int \frac{du}{2u}=?$
@frostedcake integrate (1/2)du / u
18:44
but isnt the point of u-substitution to get it in the form: u du so you can just integrate the u and sub it back and get rid of du
@frostedcake the point of u-sub is to get it in the form f(u)du where you know how to integrate f
yeah exactly
yes. so we are fulfilling the point of u-substitution.
because we know how to integrate 1/(2u) with respect to u
but 1/2du / u wouldnt be in the form though?
$\int f(u(x))\,dx = \int f(u)\frac{du}{du/dx}$
18:46
OHHH
@frostedcake correct, it is in the form f(u)du
(1/2)du/u = 1/2u * du?
@Semiclassical better to say $\int f(u(x))u'(x)dx=\int f(u)du$
@frostedcake no
@arctictern Agreed.
@frostedcake err, do you mean 1/(2u)? parentheses are important.
18:47
yeah sorry
then yes
which would be in the form f(u) du
Yep. What does that integrate to?
wait, would that integrate into 1/2?
18:48
do you know what the integral of 1/u du is?
is it ln(x)
$x$?
@frostedcake yes [well, ln(u)+C]. so what is the integral of (1/2)/u?
@Krijn what?
ln(u), not ln(x)
It is almost $\ln(x)$
18:50
right sorry, I mean ln(u), so ln (1+sin^2(x)) + C
what is the integral of (1/2)/u du?
you should get (1/2)ln(1+sin^2(x))+C
you should be able to check your answer, i.e. differentiate and confirm that you get the original integrand back.
wait doesn't 1/u integrate to ln(u) arctic
it does (up to an integration constant). but you've got 1/2*1/u, not 1/u by itself.
oh right
yeah hafl then, (1/2)*ln(1+sin^2(x))+c
thanks a lot guys, btw would one just be expected to know that 1+sin^2(x) differentiates to 2sin(x)cos(x)
18:55
1+sin(x)^2, and most definitely yes.
You should be able to differentiate that by hand.
could you walk me through that?
Well, what's d/du(u^2)?
I missed a lot of differentiation/integration at school due to sickness and im kind of scrabbling to understand it
2u
right. what's d/du(f(u)*f(u)) for a generic function f(u)?
is that the product rule
18:59
It's the product rule in the special case of f(u)=g(u).
could also think of it in terms of the chain rule.
2*(f(u)f'(u))
So if f(u)=sin u, what is d/du(sin(u)^2)?
@Tobias, care for some repr. theory anytime soon?
19:02
2*(sin(u)*cos(u))
ahhhh
right-o.
of course, anything like a+sin(x)^2 would have the same derivative.
@AkivaWeinberger I don't get it. Simplices in simplicial homology are injective.
that makes so much sense, for some reason I never thought of sin(u)^2 as sin(u)*sin(u) for some reason, that makes so much more sense, thanks a lot :)
so therefore you can integrate anything like sin(x)cox(x)/(a+sin(x)^2) the same way.
fantastic
19:05
@arctic Don't know if you know this, or if you want to help, but I have a question on quadratic extensions of $\mathbb{Q}_p$
@Krijn Certainly
thanks alot
Ahhh, lol, just switched to different stuff @Tobias
But np
My own rant: I have at least four different ways I could split up this computation, and all of them feel pretty terrible. So I need to figure out if one of them is somehow minimally terrible.
19:06
@TobiasKildetoft For a root $\alpha$ of a ss Lie algebra $\mathfrak{g}$, what do they mean by the $\alpha$-string
@Krijn usually one uses the term $\alpha$-string through $\beta$ where $\beta$ is some other root
@TobiasKildetoft Yeah okay, that was the proper question I guess
$\{\beta+n\alpha\}\cap$roots
Ah, makes sense
Would it also make sense to write $\alpha$ string for $\{n\alpha\}\cap$ roots?
(is that something authors do? terminology seems very fixed in this field)
what is the point in bringing an equationsystem in normal form?
and.. what is it even?
19:11
@Krijn Yeah, I think I would usually use the term for those elements of that form that are themselves roots
(the point being that these form a "string")
lets start with a small equation system. a+2b=3. 2a-b+c=5.
@TobiasKildetoft When is the maximal toral subalgebra $\mathfrak{h}$ equal to the center $\mathfrak{z}$?
@Krijn Hardly ever I would say (certainly never for a semisimple algebra)
So much terminology $:'($
Not that much I would say
19:19
@BalarkaSen What? What are the singular 2-simplices in $S^1$, say?
$\mathfrak{g}_\alpha$, $V_\lambda$, Weyl chambers, root systems etc. etc. etc.
It keeps goingon
@Krijn Well, some of those are notation :)
But I suppose you are right that there is a lot of new terminology and notation to get used to here
Have you read my guide to the proof of the classification by the way (or are you not at that yet?)
If you are used to it, it's probably a beautiful subject
@Tobias, No but I would like to try!
"Every countable, metrizable space without isolated points is homeomorphic to the rational numbers $\Bbb Q$", theorem 2 in this paper, I think I'm missing something, is $\mathbb Q\cap[0,1]$ homeomorphic to $\Bbb Q$?
19:24
I had to learn a bit about all of that reflection group stuff for a summer research project.
I barely remember any of it now :P
@Semiclassical That's just two (perfectly readable) pages tho
Ah yeah, I have a different class on Coxeter groups now where we did the classification of root systems, so I know that part
The output of the main algorithm in that project was the root vectors of some Cartesian product of Lie groups.
So you had to use the relations between all those roots in order to deduce which Lie groups had been generated.
@TobiasKildetoft , meant to @ you in my last message
@Krijn The short paper I linked takes the classification of roots systems for granted and focuses on the link to the Lie algebras
@TobiasKildetoft Yeah that was certainly readable!
19:35
@Krijn Which book are you studying Lie algebras from?
@AkivaWeinberger There are a great many singular 2-simplices in $S^1$, but when you're defining simplicial homology, there are none.
The simplicial chain complex of $S^1$ has $C_2 = 0$.
@TobiasKildetoft F&H, Humphreys and notes
Mostly F&H tho
You're confusing simplicial homology with singular homology.
@Krijn Ahh, never actually read very much of F&H
I don't know off the top of my head what changes when you add an injectivity constraint. It doesn't seem very natural.
Oh, well, you obviously don't get a functorial theory for anything but injective maps. Good luck getting homotopy invariance.
19:53
Comment ça va? @user1952009 many thanks to you and this site, are very generous. If in the future you want to explain more mathematics about $\zeta(s)$ you are welcome if tell me here in this Chat, or in a comment or answer. My best wishes to this 2017.
Right, @Akiva: what you have in mind is singular, not simplicial homology.
I see what the construction you had in mind. ishrug
I think it's probably equivalent to singular homology.
First prove that X x I has the same injective homology as X, by hand. Once you have that, take your homotopy through injective maps to be as a map X x I -> Y x I, doing the usual chain homotopy argument to see that the induced maps of the endpoints of X are the same. The invert the map(s) Y -> Y x I on homology.
At least the canonical map from simplicial homology to injective homology is injective, and the canonical map from injective homology to singular homology is surjective.
@Krijn I should probably find a better place to upload that short paper, rather than one I have to use google to find myself
Hey guys, if I we want to write a simple formula like $\varphi(x,y)$: term=term (simply stating some term including variables x and y is equal to itself), is there any way to avoid writing the same term twice? I mean like the way we use a symbol for a function
20:09
@r9m can you work your magic on this ?
@BalarkaSen Hellraiser is a great movie. One of the best to come out of that era of horror movies.
Yeah, I heard the name from you. The book's hella disturbing; I have a love-hate relationship with horror.
Haven't watched the movie tho
The movie takes itself very seriously, which is unusual in a campy era.
@MikeMiller I'm pretty sure that $S^1\times I$ has different injective homology from $S^1$
@AkivaWeinberger I am confused why you think so.
20:13
I think $S^1\times I$ has injective homology $\Bbb Z$ in dimension $1$,
H_2(S^1 x I) should still be 0
But I am thinking simplicially, so there might be some subtlety I am missing
while the injective homology of $S^1$ is the same as the set of injective cycles (since there are no 2-simplices so nothing's a boundary) and so would be a really huge group.
Ah. You're right.
In which case I really don't care about injective homology. ;)
Oh.
Right
Yeah — but it makes me wonder if they always agree on spaces of the form $X\times I$. @MikeMiller
20:18
No. If X is a finite-dimensional CW complex, there is no injective map of a higher-dimensional simplex into it. Your argument shows that there's always a plethora of top-dimensional injective cycles.
They, as in, injective and singular? By your reasoning H^inj_2(S^1 x I) should also be a huge group, contrary to the singular group.
I am too slow today.
Is there a particular reason you want to do this? Because there might be other approaches that do work.
OK, restrict it to $H_1$ and $H_1^{\rm inj}$ then
I'm done thinking about injective homology unless you can give me a good reason to. :)
20:20
I need to go but I have a few more sentences I want to say so I'll say them later
@AkivaW If you allow $X$ to be a simplicial complex then any 1-cycle can be realized as a simplicial 1-cycle.
I think.
By simplicial approximation theorem
Err, maybe that's not relevant
To graph on a log scale, is it more common to use base e or base 10?
It should work for $X \times I$ by simplicial approximation, I am pretty sure. Any 1 and 2-cycle can be realized as a simplicial and 2-cycle.
$H_1$ and $H_1^{\inj}$ should be isomorphic to $H_1^{\Delta}$ by that logic
@BalarkaSen There's a subtlety about simplicial maps; they can send simplices to lower-dimensional simplices.
20:53
@AkivaWeinberger I'm not going to apply to mathcamp this summer; there are overlapping conferences.
we're both going to be out of our school years next year, so oh well
not that i could actually apply
I'm pretty sure you could just ask me to teach you a mathcamp class here and I'd do it.
lol. good point, who needs a mathcamp when there's a Mike.
(no offense to mathcamp)
I actually was planning on not going to MathCamp this year (but maybe next year) @BalarkaSen @MikeMiller
In any case, I think I was gonna say that I conjecture that $H_n(X\times I^n)\cong H_n^{\rm inj}(X\times I^n)$
@BalarkaSen "Both" meaning "you and Soham"?
What would a typical MathCamp course be?
21:07
I still want to teach the topology of noncompact surfaces, and I think Kevin Carlson and I could teach a class called "infinity categories for normal people"
I have to wonder what definition of 'normal' you have in mind for that :P @MikeMiller
people that are invariatn under conjugation of other people
@SemiC "At a level Mike M can understand"
lol
"Infinity categories for artists"
Anyone who signs up for that learns the infinite categories of careers that being an artist makes you unemployable in :P
@AkivaWeinberger I meant you, not Soham. but I see that I was wrong
noncompact surfaces are neat. lots of nice pictures. infty categories on the other hand...
21:16
I don't know the word, if I'm honest. Infinite in what sense?
there are morphisms between morphisms, called 2-morphisms. and morphisms between 2-morphisms, called 3-morphisms. ad infinitum
You have 2-morphisms between morphisms
etc
it's the right place to think of a lot of ideas in homotopy theory - the category of spaces is an infinity category, 2-morphisms are homotopies, 3-morphisms are uomotopies between homotopically
I have heard of this stuff, but only in the most floaty way.
I can understand 2-morphisms well enough.
But anything past that? Nope.
21:19
A lot of the time you don't want to say "blah up to homotopy", you want to say "blah up to coherent homotopy". For instance, you might have a space with a product map G x G -> G.
You'd like that map to be homotopic to the map you get when you swap the factors
So choose such a homotopy. That will give you in the end a bunch of maps G x G x G -> G
Those should all be homotopic, pick the jomotopies. Etc
i have no idea what i am talking about but is that like an infinity-operad
So it lets you express 'X~Y up to homotopy" in a way that generalizes to homotopies themselves in a consistent structure.
Structurally, that makes sense.
21:22
huh, that was sheer guessing... neat.
Basically I think the ideas and structure in infinity categories are really nice.
I am less enthused about the details
But for me it's rather like a machine reading a sentence and getting the syntax right.
I can get the syntax of what you're saying, but not the semantics.
@Semiclassical I like the aspect that (homotopy type of) any topological space is an infinity-category. objects are points, morphisms are paths between points, 2-morphisms are homotopies of paths, 3-morphisms are homotopies of path-homotopies etc
if you truncate that till level n (so stop at n-morphisms) you get the fundamental n-groupoid. for n = 1 that's like an elaborate thing which keeps track of a bunch of fundamental groups pi_1(X, pt) where pt varies over X.
21:26
I think you've left the realm of "for normal people" there
I know I've seen that much. Though I'd have thought that, for the most part, the fundamental group doesn't depend on the basepoint.
well, yeah. but technically speaking isomorphisms pi_1(X, x1) \cong pi_1(X, x2) depend on a choice of a path from x1 to x2. those are precisely the morphisms of the fundamental groups in the fundamental groupoid and...
yeah forget this. i am leaving the realm of my own understanding
is a solution set for an equationsystem like this: $\{1-t,2t+3,t\}t\in\mathbb{R}$
^arbitary one, but do they look like this?
cruds, it's late. i am going to mess up my sleep schedule again; night everyone.
I'd express that in set builder notation as $\{(x,y,z)\in\Bbb R^3:\exists t\in\Bbb R((x,y,z)=(1-t,2t+3,t))\}$
21:30
@BalarkaSen Dude....
Good night tho
Get some melatonin or something
Though I use set builder notation so infrequently that I probably said something dumb :P
21:48
@Semiclassical @Null Or $\{(1-t,2t+3,t)\mid t\in\Bbb R\}$
Yeah, that's simpler.
22:32
Hey can you guys help me out , I'm stuck in this math problem
its in my profile
Ok there are some key difference in Wheels and ordinary rationals:
1. The only element that is our additive identity is now 0/1. In usual rationals, 0/y for any y is our identity due to 0 being a multiplicative absorber.
2. Reciprocal operation becomes distributive, which is not allowed in general in usual rationals
3. The new element, 0/0 becomes an additive absorber
Distributive law then result in the following interesting properties:
1. Zero terms are neutral wrt addition and division by reciprocals wrt the nonzero element y and z, thus they kinda function like identities for these elements
2. All reciprocals 0/y where $y\neq 1$ is now a zero term. In usual rationals, they are all lumped into the additive identity,
(I still yet to figure out (x+0y)z=xz+0y however...)
This bubbling out the zero terms behaviour is something I found very nice about wheels compared to most zero term algebra I have seen so far
Note even in our definitions, 0/c is a zero term, thus it is in general a nonzero element, so Wheel is actually an example of a zero term algebra
23:09
5 hours ago, by Semiclassical
i should have said: (2,4) ~ (3,6) because (3*2,3*4) = (6,12) = (2*3,2*6)
The first step in constructing wheels is the change the equivalence relation from $sr=sr'$ where $r,r'$ are ordered pairs denoting the numerator and denominator of a rational number, into a more general one: $sr=s'r'$.
23:21
meanwhile the zero reciprocals n/0 and 0/n are distinct from each other as no s, s' can be found to relate an arbitrary n/0=m/0
whereas in ordinary rationals, all reciprocals of the form 0/n are equivalent since 0x=0 for all x. Therefore Wheels extend commutative rings with reciprocal elements such that they are all involutive
Hmm. This question feels too broad to have a good answer, even if there is one: math.stackexchange.com/q/2084054/137524
3 data points just doesn't say much
@AkivaWeinberger and why stand the values between the "," for the variables $x_i$? Is this by convention?
Yay, 28.
(talking about set constructing)
@Null I'm not sure I understand what you mean
23:36
@AkivaWeinberger the sources I saw use $x_1,...,x_n$ for the variables, and in that order one has to read the solution set. Why do we notate the solution set then as a set of vectors?
ah, nevermind, now I understood ;)
23:50
how would I solve this if the WB is x+40?
I can use tangent but then there's two unknown variable
what you want to calculate?
The height of WB
the antenna on top of WB is 40 ft tall
meh
possible yes
But how would I solve it doe?
do you have the distance between the angle and the tower?
23:55
no its not given
what means 30'?
like 40 degrees and 30 minutes
@MATHASKER So tan(54*40')=(x+40)/y, yes?
yes
so do i like solve for x in that one
and plug x in the other one>
23:57
What's tan(47*30')?
40+x/y
No
The "opposite" in this triangle is just the height of the building, without the antenna
what is it? 40-x?
So it's x/y
23:58
"x" is the height of the building, without the antenna. That's how we defined it. So x/y is opposite over adjacent for that angle.
Now we have two equations and two unknowns.
so then what would I do? find x in the first equation which is 1.428y-40
then would I put that in tan(47 30') = 1.428y-40/y?

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