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00:00
we had this space of sequences as a counterexample to another reasonably sounding claim
I'm fairly sure you can't have $B(x,r)=B(y,r)$ for every $r$
Since metric spaces are Hausdorff and every open set containing $x$ contains an open ball centered at $x$
@JessyCat It looks like you're going down the partial fractions route in the work you added. I don't have much to say there, on the grounds that I don't think it gives nearly as a simple a route as what I sketched.
@AlessandroCodenotti Remember that $y$ had to be in $B(x,r)$ in the first place
@AlessandroCodenotti Essentially, we want every pair of balls of radius $r$ to be either disjoint or equal.
Ah, right, that seems more doable
you want some kind of "transitive" distance , if $d(x,y)<r$ and $d(y,z)<r$ so $d(x,z)<r$
00:44
And there we go, 27 hates and (shared) #1 spot.
you're way behind on the network leaderboard
I know :(
is it known how many hats are there in total? Is 39 the maximum achievable?
It's not known, no. There may still be secret hats to be uncovered.
but yeah
01:15
@Semiclassical it gives a route that is more connected with what I've learned about the Laplace transform pairs. I just wish that that Kitty person understood what I was asking about. She keeps on thinking I'm talking about what happens for $e^{s-b}$, and I'm actually talking about $e^{-bs}$.
Fair enough. For me it boils down to the three functional relations that I indicated earlier (though now I'm repeating myself). Might add those to my answer, since that's about all that makes sense for me to add. (She's got the partial fractions route covered, so I'm not inclined to have my answer overlap with that.) @JessyCat
Anyone know any identities of the form $c_1F_{c_2n+c_3}+c_4=c_5L_{c_6n+c_7}+c_8$ with $c_i$ constant and $F_n$, $L_n$ the Fibonacci/Lucas sequences?
01:32
hey
i have a pretty simple geometry question
anyone feel like talking me through it?
As the room description states: Just ask, don't ask to ask. (If someone is interested, they'll respond.) @dbliss
Please do not tell anyone where I'm from. @DHMO
I'll hear you out, @dbliss
Though I can't guarantee that I can answer it.
01:47
Hello, I have a question regarding spectra (in homotopy theory). Let X be an omega-spectrum. The notation Ω^∞(X) is usually meant to mean the 0th term of the spectrum, is this correct? Am I then right to interpret Ω^(∞-1)(X) as the -1th term? This notation is used in the statement of the Madsen-Weiss theorem, where X is a certain spectrum MTO(d). In this setting, is MTO(d) an omega-spectrum? If not, can we interpret Ω^∞(X) for any spectrum X (not necessarily an omega-spectrum)?
@Fargle i'm trying to understand why i can preserve spatial relationships if i shift the x- and y-values of two points by the same amount -- but i can't preserve them if i shift the angle and eccentricity of the two points by the same amount.
@Adrien Nope. Remember that the point of Omega spectra (other than being fibrant) is that the map X_i -> Omega X_{i+1} is a homeomorphism. So if you want to undo an Omega, you go one further up the tower, not down.
@Fargle err, well i guess w/ angle and eccentricity they are preserved, but in a different way.
@Fargle i can explain the exact problem i'm trying to deal with.
It's been a while since I thought about Madsen-Weiss. Can you remind me what MTO is?
Oh, is MTO(2) what shows up in Madsen-Weiss?
Hmm. That's a thinker.
02:02
If I remember right, we can say there's a space TO(n,d), a certain Thom space. There's a natural map TO(n,d) -> Omega TO(n+1,d). Then the zeroth degree space of MTO(d) is the limit of Omega^n TO(n,d), and the kth degree space is Omega^{n-k} TO(n,d). It is indeed an omega spectrum.
@Fargle really?
@Fargle it seems basic to me . . .
I'm not sure what you mean by "spatial relationships".
@Fargle say i have a point A and a point B
@Fargle i want to preserve B's position relative to A, while shifting both.
@dbliss Alright. And what do you mean by the eccentricity of a point?
I'm familiar with the term in re conic sections, but not with a point in general.
@Fargle by eccentricity i mean its distance from the origin.
02:05
I see.
@Fargle my problem is this:
@Fargle i have points A, B, and C that fall roughly on a circle.
@Fargle i want to know whether B is systematically closer to A than C is.
@Fargle but from observation to observation, A varies randomly and B and C also vary, independently of A.
@Fargle what i want to do is move all my points A so that they are all at the origin, and then look at how far the Bs are from this origin relative to how far the Cs are.
It turns out that if you scale distance to the origin (eccentricity), then distances between points are scaled by the same amount.
That works too.
Also, if you change just the angle, distances are preserved.
@Fargle i don't see how that works. if i multiply the eccentricity of all my As by 0 -- to get them at the origin -- and then multiply the eccentricity of all my Bs by the same amount, this doesn't preserve distance.
@Fargle so is zero a special case?
I see.
Zero is a special case.
@Fargle i have a second issue with this problem.
02:10
Instead of multiplying A by 0, try translating all of the points using the translation that would send A to 0.
@Fargle yeah, that's what i've done.
@Fargle i'll mention my second issue.
Sure.
@Fargle it's that the Bs are systematically closer to the original origin than the Cs.
Do you happen to have a screenshot of the problem itself?
@Fargle and because (0, 0) is on average closer to all points on a circle centered at 0 and than any individual point on the circle, this means that my Bs are closer to my As than my Cs are just by virtue of being closer to the origin.
@Fargle not really
@Fargle well
sort of
02:12
I'd be a lot more help if you could get that somehow, haha.
you can think of that as the distribution of As.
in the second one, i've translated all these As to be at the origin -- so the As are green.
the Bs and Cs are blue and red
the translated Bs and Cs are blue and red
Right.
@dbliss This statement isn't exactly true. Imagine a circle centered at, say, (2,2), with B at the bottom left, A at the top, and C at the top right.
@dhmo are you here, friend?
B is closer to the origin than C, but C is closer to A than B.
@Fargle yeah, but my original circle is centered at (0, 0)
@Fargle the As, Bs, and Cs all fall roughly on that circle -- but the Bs are closer to (0, 0) and than the Cs.
which, i think, makes the Bs on average closer to their corresponding As
02:18
There's why I'm not getting it: roughly.
What's the name of the property of complex functions that the image of am intersection of contours under f preserves the angle between the tangent lines?
Conformal.
Thanks, that's it
Well, let B lie slightly closer to the origin, on the left side, than C, which is on the right side, and let A be on the top-right.
ok
but
on average
assuming the angle around the circle varies randomly for the As and varies randomly and independently for the Bs
02:19
How would you say that without the language of geometry?
because B is closer to the origin than C -- and B and C are otherwise always about at the same angle -- B will on average be closer to the corresponding A
right?
I mean, is there a pure linear Algebra type of way to say it
@dbliss "B and C are otherwise always about at the same angle"--you never mentioned this.
The angle between contours
@Fargie true, i didn't.
02:21
However, even if they're very close to each other, A has about (but not quite) a 50/50 chance of being closer to either one.
@Fargle how do you figure?
@dbliss On half the circle, A is closer to C. On half the circle, A is closer to B. This holds true even if you allow things to lie "roughly" on the circle (i.e. on some annulus).
@Fargle hmm. but . . . isn't the center of the circle the closest point to the circumference?
@Fargle that's worded weirdly, but maybe you know what i mean.
@dbliss It is the unique point with equal distance to all points on the circle, but this isn't the minimum distance.
@Fargle i see. what is the minimum distance?
02:23
For example, (1/2, 1/2) is a LOT closer to the unit circle than (0,0).
@dbliss There is no minimum distance (unless you count a distance of 0, i.e. actually lying on the circle).
@Fargle i'm not understanding how to think about this. i think we're talking about different things.
I guess so. I'm not quite picking up your meaning.
@Fargle i'm trying to talk about minimizing average distance from all points on the circumference of a circle.
@Fargle i think (0, 0) would minimize that, for the unit circle.
@Fargle mean distance = 1.
@Fargle i don't know what the mean distance for (1/2, 1/2) is, but it doesn't seem obviously shorter.
user228700
Hi, everyone :-) Is anybody interested to help me to find the domain and range of compositions of two piece-wise defined functions? Do ping me if u are...
Hmm. How does this all relate to the relationship between A, B, and C?
02:27
so that first plot i sent
that's the positions of the As
each A has a B and a C
the B and C for an A are close to each other
but the B is closer to the origin than the C
and the angle of the B and C on the circle is random relative to the A
i'm thinking that since B is closer to the origin than C
then it is closer, on average, to its A
So do B and C form the same angle w.r.t the x-axis, or very close to the same angle?
very close to.
and that angular difference you can think of as random.
and independent of the other random stuff.
well
actually
Do we know A's relative distance to the origin (i.e. is it between B and C's distance, or further out, or further in)?
should be identical to C
the mean distance of A from the origin is identical to the mean of C
to get B from C, you'd add (1) a tiny bit of noise, (2) a tiny translation toward the origin, and maybe (3) a tiny translation towards A.
Then yes, given A far enough away from B and C (which happens more often than not), A is closer to B than to C.
02:30
i'm trying to detect (3).
right, so if all i have is (2), but i'm looking for (3), i might find (3) just by virtue of having (2).
how might i look for (3) while controlling for (2)?
Not sure. This turned very quickly into a prob/stats problem, haha, and that's where my expertise ends.
yeah, true.
ok
well
thanks
02:43
No problem. Sorry I couldn't be more help.
@Fargle that was helpful
@MikeMiller @Mike Miller Thanks for your help. MTO(d) is as you described, except that in my reference, the zeroth degree space of MTO(d), Omega^{infinity}MTO(d), is defined as colim Omega^{n+d}TO(n,d), note the +d.
02:59
@Adrien Sure, that seems reasonable. In any case that's still an Omega spectrum.
Whenever you have something that looks "like that", it's an omega spectrum.
Could you be a bit more precise? I don't see why it is an Omega spectrum.
@Adrien If $X_1 = \colim \Omega^{n+d-1} TO(n,d)$, then there's a canonical map from the loop space of that to $\colim \Omega^{n+d} TO(n,d)$. Agreed?
Omega commutes with colimit.
03:20
Agreed for the map. However, Omega is right-adjoint, why does it commute with (directed) colimits?
I am looking at a solved exercise but I got stuck at a point...

We have tht each continuous function on $D$ is bounded.
We suppose that $D$ is not closed. Then there is a sequence $(x_n)$ in $D$ with $x_n\rightarrow b\notin D$. Let $f: D\to \mathbf R$ with $f(x)=1/(x-b)$. Then $f$ is an unbounded continuous function on $D$. This is a contradiction.

Why is $f$ unbounded?
Are you sure it's a colimit and not a limit?
@MaryStar Consider the sequence f(x_n). Since x_n is arbitrarily close to b, the ratio 1/(x_n - b) is arbitrarily large, hence f is unbounded.
@Adrien Even if b is not in D, $x_n$ can be arbitrarily close to b?
Or is $x_n$ arbitrarily close to $b$ since $x_n\rightarrow b$ ? @Adrien
@Adrien Hatcher thinks it's a limit, so I'm gonna go with that.
03:36
hi,i need your help to solve this problem:math.stackexchange.com/questions/2076742/…
please help me
@MikeMiller We are taking the limit of the sequence X_0 --> Omega(X_1) --> Omega^2(X_2) --> ..., right? So we want a universal object X with maps from each Omega^i(X_i) into X, i.e. a colimit.
Can you give the Hatcher reference?
ncatlab.org/nlab/show/spectrum#OmegaSpectrum claims that Omega actually commutes with filtered colimits
I see
google hatcher madsen-weiss and you'll find it
Omega^infty MTO(d) is his AG^+_{infty, d}
I guess Hatcher calls it a limit because of his conversational style, and because it is a "direct limit" in the established terminology.
i have a problem
@Adrien Yeah, this is a note, not a textbook. I was only taking a quick glance.
I agree that in retrospect it was obviously a colimit. :)
example 13
like 4
how is OQ = QP = r ?
04:14
Let $f(x)=\arcsin (x)$ To calculate the interval $f([-1,1])$ we have to check if $f$ is descresing or incresing or not?
Or can we say that since the $\sin(x) : \mathbb{R}\rightarrow [-1,1]$ then for the inverse function it holds that $f([-1,1])=\mathbb{R}$ ?
@AkivaWeinberger Dodgson condescension: "I could tell you the details of my computation, but instead I'll just tell a cute story about it."
@Semiclassical I like that!
@MaryStar Regarding your previous questions: yes, x_n is arbitrarily close to b by definition of what it means for the sequence (x_n) to converge to b.
@BalarkaSen Any chance to awkwardly pun on Dodgson condensation is a chance I'll take :P
@MaryStar Your second argument using sin works, because sin is surjective onto [-1,1].
04:39
Would a karnaugh map be considered a proof that two logical statements are equivalent?
hi,i need your help to solve this problem:http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/2076742/bruns-method-and-primitive-roots
please help me
05:25
do you know what is brun's method?
@Null hi
@euclid hi
whats your major?
nothing
except the multiverse is not proven yet
05:57
@Secret your message is for me?
06:08
0
Q: brun's method and primitive roots

alex morfilet be $N(x) = \sum\limits_{d|p - 1} {\mu \left( d \right)} {F_x}(d)$ that $p$ is a prime number and ${F_x}(d) = \frac{{{x^2}}}{{4d}} + O(x{p^{\frac{1}{2}}})$ that $x+1=g(p)$ and $g(p)$ is the least primitive root modulo $p$. Applying Brun's method to $N(x)$ in conjunction with ${F_x}(d)$ in orde...

@MartianCactus how did you send that pic?
@euclid nope, null's smbc link
07:19
hllo?
i uploaded it
from the desktop
1) Took it with my phone 2) Transferred it to my laptop using an app called xender, its really efficient 3) Uploaded it with the "upload" button near chat bar
07:37
@MartianCactus thank you but i dont see upload button
08:16
@euclid there it is prntscr.com/drb4vs
08:36
@Adrien Let $g=\sin (x) : \mathbb{R}\rightarrow [-1,1]$. We have that $g^{-1}([-1,1])=\{x\in \mathbb{R} \mid g(x)\in [-1,1]\}$. Since $[-1,1]$ is the range of $g$ we have that $g(x)\in [-1,1]$ for all $x\in \mathbb{R}$. Therefore $g^{-1}([-1,1])=\mathbb{R}$. Is this justifiction correct?
@Adrien So, we have the function $f(x)=\frac{1}{x-b}$ and since $x_n\rightarrow b$ there are $x\in D$ arbitrarily closed to $b$, so we conclude that it is unbounded. Is this correct?
08:52
Hi @Alessandro
09:03
Hi @Balarka!
What are you upto
09:17
The usual... This numerical analysis exam will be on the 13th so at least I'll be done with it soon-ish
Are you doing some interesting math?
Nope, it's the same here... doing statistics.
10:12
Hello chat
1 thing that i dont understand is
the are of a field in meters = the total cost of cutting the grass / cost of cutting the grass per meter
i know this is elementary math
but the math doesnt seem to work out in my brain
im not getting that intuiton
we are saying that we want to divide the cost of cutting the grass of the field in x parts where x is the total cost
and that gives the area?
how?
also im in 10th grade so sry if this is sounds stupid :P
Hi @Fargle
anyway i gtg so please @ me when you type the answer :D
10:41
hi @fargle
11:10
[Abstract algebra]
a(bc)=(ab)c
Interpretation: Given two maps $a,b$ with some given domain, the image of the two maps acting in sequence to $c$ is the same as their composition. In other words $a \circ b= (a \circ b)$
Therefore nonassociativity can mean there exists some $c$ such that the map $ab$ is not decomposable into a composition of maps $a$ and $b$
@kayak ok, sorry
More generally, we can treat a binary operation together with some element $x \in M$ in a magma $(M,\cdot)$ as an action from the underlying set $M$ to itself. Then $x \cdot : M \rightarrow M$ represents a left magma action by $x$ and $\cdot x: M \rightarrow M$ represents a right magma action by $x$.
Then for some elements $a,b,c \in M$ such that $(a\cdot b)\cdot c=a \cdot (b \cdot c)$, it means the left magma action $ab\cdot$ can be decomposed into a left magma action by $b$ followed by $a$
Equivalently, we can equally say that the right magma action of $bc$ can be decomposed into right magma actions of $b$ followed by $c$
therefore, nonassociativity will mean there is some element $c$ such that $a\cdot b \neq ab$ and likewise there is some element $a$ such that $b\cdot c\neq bc$
Further discussion requires more in depth understanding of nonassociative algebras, which I currently don't have yet
There's also one more interpretation of associativity that reminds of Light's associativity test: We can say that if for all $b$, $a\cdot (b\cdot c)=(a\cdot b)\cdot c$, then $b$ act like some kind of center of the algebra wrt the order of binary operation, that is, the brackets () commute under $b$.
As for the distributive law $a(b+c)=ab+bc, \forall b,c$ it means the left magma action of $a$ is a homomorphism of the $+$ structure. Likewise, $(b+c)a=ba+ca, \forall a,c$ means the right magma action of $a$ is a homomorphism of the + structure.
Therefore if an algebra is distributive, then multiplication is a homomorphism of addition
11:40
@DHMO Hi!
typo" $a(b+c)=ab+ac$
...pretty sure I have not misuse at least homomorphism there (I even double checked the definitions to be sure)
Now that we knew distributive law implies multiplication is a homomorphism of addition, it is now easy to see that if some element is an additive identity, so are their products
12:04
...unless, a "bypass" occurs
Edit: sorry wrong link, that's only for group homomorphisms. ring homomorphisms maps an identity to a zero element in general
Hi.
This have been confusing me for while and I think it's time to finish with it, Why is $$(\sqrt{x})^2=x \; \text{while} \; \sqrt{x^2}=|x|$$
What's on the right always holds, @Mahmoud.
@Kari Yes, but why ?
That's the definition of the absolute value of a number.
12:40
if $x$ is a positive real number, $\sqrt x$ is by definition the positive real number $y$ such that $y^2 = x$
so if $x \ge 0$, $(\sqrt x)^2 = x$ comes from the definition of $\sqrt x$
and by definition the thing on the right means that "$|x| \ge 0$ and $|x|^2 = x^2$"
@Mahmoud if x is negative, then sqrt x isn't defined
and you shouldn't have a problem proving that this is true when $x$ is any real number
Thanks $\displaystyle \huge{:)}$
13:27
if a root is complex, do we only talk about $a+bi$ with a,b >0?
@Null I don't think so. Could you provide an example?
$\sqrt{-1}=i$ instead of $\sqrt{-1}=0-i$
(in my question i meant a,b not negative)
14:22
Hi @Alessandro @Fargle
And @Null @DHMO
Hi @Ted
And @Mahmoud ... And Balarka
@TedShifrin bonjour professeur
Whew ....
14:27
@TedShifrin hi
Hi Semiclassic ... Slow day in Mudville.
How's the weather?
[Abstract algebra] (Too basic to be a lemma): If $x1=1$ and 1 is a left identity, then $xy=y$ for all $y$
i.e. $x$ is also a left identity
14:37
I'm in ATL now ... Freaking a bit that a tinynbit of snow will paralyze the area and get me in trouble to fly out Monday. Otherwise fine!
Gotcha. Can't deny I'm envious; it's bloody cold in Minneapolis right now.
The app on my phone reports -5 F / -21 C
@Semiclassical I have a piece of rubberband, I hold a small object with it, and pull the whole thing. I want to compute the velocity of the object once I release the pull. The framework should be that the kinetic energy of the object after the release should be equal to the potential energy of the rubberband, yes?
And with the wind right now (15 mph, apparently) said app gives -26 F as how it feels outside
@Ted salut et meilleurs voeux
@BalarkaSen yep, assuming there's nothing else at play (e.g. gravitational PE)
14:43
hmm. either i am messing up the computation or that doesn't give me the right thing then
Of course, some of that energy may be lost as heat
À toi aussi, @LeGrandDODO
nah; no such thing is happening here
Well, for a realistic rubber band there would be. But i guess you can assume it behaves like an ideal spring
Okay, out into the cold
Sure, sure, I agree. All I am saying it's not relevant to the problem I have.
14:48
@DanielFischer my answer here doesn't work when $E$ has infinite measure, do you think it can be salvaged ?
@Balarka note that some of the potential energy of the rubber band is deposited into the swinging that it does after the object is launched

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