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16:00
Therefore no bijection @DHMO right ?
@Mahmoud yes
@Null beginning
@DHMO thanks for input :)
I'll go try to understand the Theorem @DHMO
@DHMO are you saying that $\lim_\limits{x\rightarrow 1} \frac{\sqrt[3]{x}-1}{x-1} = \lim_\limits{x\rightarrow 1} \frac{\sqrt[3]{x^3}-1}{x^3-1} = \lim_\limits{x\rightarrow 1} \frac{x-1}{x^3-1}$
$\displaystyle \lim_{x\to1} \dfrac{\sqrt[3]x-1}{x-1}$
$\displaystyle = \lim_{x\to1} \dfrac{u-1}{u^3-1}$
$\displaystyle = \lim_{x\to1} \dfrac{u-1}{(u-1)(u^2+u+1)}$
$\displaystyle = \lim_{x\to1} \dfrac{1}{u^2+u+1}$
$\displaystyle = \lim_{x\to1} \dfrac{1}{\sqrt[3]x^2+\sqrt[3]x+1}$
$\displaystyle = \dfrac1{1+1+1}$
$\displaystyle=\dfrac13$
16:02
@DHMO oh...
@Mahmoud consider one definitive subset of the powerset: $M:=\{x\in X|x\notin f(x)\}$
@Astyx how?
@Null it's already in the website I gave him, but thanks
okay that makes sense
@DHMO Got anything on $\int sin^6(t) \: dt$?
16:03
wow that's awesome that you can do that
@DHMO well, ok^^
Thanks @Null
@Mahmoud where r you from btw ?
Me ...
@Lozansky $\int\sin^6(t)\ \mathrm dt = \int(\sin^2(t))^3\ \mathrm dt$
16:03
yeah
I'm from Morocco $:)$ @Adeek You ?
@heather you can change the variable of limit as well, but that's too complicated for now
@DHMO, okay
@heather notice how I kept the $x$ under the $\lim$ sign
@mahmoud I am originally from Egypt but I migrated to Canada doing grad school here
16:04
@Adeek Been reading any more differential topology?
@DHMO, yeah, why did you replace the variable in the fraction with u but keep the x in the limit?
@heather Have you learnt $\lim\limits_{x\to0}\dfrac{\sin x}x$?
49 secs ago, by DHMO
@heather you can change the variable of limit as well, but that's too complicated for now
@DHMO Ugh so I need to work out cubes :|
@BalarkaSen I have been studying algebra lately because have to get ready for algebra exam since I screwed up in the midterm.
@Adeek Nice to meet you, and good luck with your future education $:)$
16:05
@Lozansky (or u can search for formulas online)
@Mahmoud have you finished reading the proof?
@BalarkaSen we actually covered tensor products we are gonna introduce differential forms soon
@Evinda I'm not sure
@Astyx So doesn't it hold that $\frac{1}{c(x_0)} \geq \frac{1}{-c_0}$ ?
16:06
Nope @DHMO
actually prof last lecture was quite good
@DHMO I googled sin^6, first result was the Wiki page to the Seven deadly sins
@Mahmoud thanks
@Evinda yes it does
@DHMO, my book says it equals 1, and it gives a proof involving the squeeze theorem
16:06
Tensor product of bundles you mean I suppose
yeah
$sin(36)\approx -1$, thanks to DHMO i know that lol
@Lozansky ^
@heather do you understand the proof?
@DHMO This borders cheating :P
16:07
@Astyx That's why I don't know how to show it :(
@Null when did i say that?
@DHMO By Hypothesis ?
@balaraka he was also talking about hodge theory and spectral sequence seems interesting seems interesting.
@Evinda I don't have much time right now sorry
do you know about them ?
16:07
@DHMO, not really
@Mahmoud the hypothesis is that $f$ is a surjection
@DHMO you said something along the lines that one should know that. As i asked why in particular, no answer haha
Ok @Astyx
a bit, but not enough to explain it to anyone
@DHMO The assumption ?
16:08
@Null come on, I meant $\sin(36^\circ)$
@Mahmoud yes
@DHMO arg, ok
What's the difference ? @DHMO
@BalarkaSen our prof said something like spectral sequence is just like riemann sum
@Mahmoud the difference between "hypothesis" and "assumption"? no difference.
But many people in mathematical community shy away from studying them.
16:09
@Adeek I have been to a Hodge theory seminar. I just know what a spectral sequence is.
I don't know much about either.
@DHMO Why do we have to use many fancy and confusing words ...
@Mahmoud lol
oh ok that sounds cool. Hopefully I will learn little about them in my algebraic topology class next semester.
I don't think spectral sequences are taught in a first course in algebraic topology
Also Hodge theory is not algebraic topology
yeah it in algebraic geometry he said
it is in *
16:11
Hodge theory does involve cohomology a lot, though, doesn't it?
Which? Spectral sequences are part of algebraic topology. It's just usually out of scope for a first course in alg. top.
From what I understood from him it generalization of cohomology theory.
@BalarkaSen He mentioned that hodge theory is part of algebraic geometry.
About the most concrete thing I know is that the Hodge filtration on cohomology groups is a thing
cool
@Semiclassical My understanding is that Hodge theory circles around ideas involving the Hodge theorem, which IIRC says on a Riemannian manifold any de Rham cohomology class admits a harmonic closed form which is in that class (aka a harmonic representative) .
16:14
Yeah, that decomposition
That involves the word "cohomology", but I think the point is geometric there. de Rham cohomology has more structure than an arbitrary cohomology theory.
hmm, true.
But I dunno anything of this, so I chicken out of this discussion :)
I tend to have de Rham in mind by default when I think of cohomology, though
mostly because I dunno how sheaf cohomology or Cech cohomology work
I will also go study algebra have many things to do
16:16
I don't know sheaf or Cech either. I almost always have singular cohomology in mind.
brb
I don't know singular (co)homology so well, if I'm honest.
I don't think it'll be hard for you to pick it up if you ever need it
Simplicial homology is the one I know the best, though when I've done any computations I think I've tacitly been using cellular homology
the construction of singular cohomology is not too different from simplicial. it's easier to handle, too, because you don't have to deal with combinatorial arguments
16:20
Eh, but I like combinatorial arguments :)
They get harder than usual
@DHMO How do I know when do I step by $\implies$ or $\iff$ ?
but sure
Do you know an example?
@Mahmoud you usually use $\implies$ because it is safer
16:21
I can believe it gets complicated, though for 'nice' surfaces I wonder how bad it can really get.
You'll have to work hard to prove that simplicial homology of homotopy equivalent simplicial complexes are isomorphic
how can this go further?
$$(\sum_{i=1}^{n+1}x_i^2)\cdot (\sum_{i=1}^{n+1}y_i^2)$$
$$=(x_{n+1}^2+\sum_{i=1}^{n}x_i^2)\cdot (y_{n+1}^2+\sum_{i=1}^{n}y_i^2)$$
$$=(\sum_{i=1}^{n}x_i^2)\cdot (\sum_{i=1}^{n}y_i^2)+x_{n+1}^2\cdot (\sum_{i=1}^{n}y_i^2)+y_{n+1}^2\cdot (\sum_{i=1}^{n}x_i^2)+x_{n+1}^2\cdot y_{n+1}^2$$
We now estimate this using the assumption
$$\geq (\sum_{i=1}^{n}x_iy_i)^2+x_{n+1}^2\cdot (\sum_{i=1}^{n}y_i^2)+y_{n+1}^2\cdot (\sum_{i=1}^{n}x_i^2)+x_{n+1}^2\cdot y_{n+1}^2$$
Thanks @DHMO
I can see why simplicial homology is more tedious than cellular, though.
16:22
yeah, computationally. you need lots of simplices.
(cauchy is wanted..)
Hence why I say that I probably am actually using cellular in practice.
@Null What do you want to prove ?
@Astyx the cauchy schwarz inequality
by using induction
16:23
Ha ..
Didn't @NaCl have this exercise some days ago ?
But the various homology theories are all basically equivalent, aren't they? At the level of results, if not of process.
oh, i seriously don't know :D, i ask him^^
Oh not quite if I remember correctly
It was a bit different
@Semiclassical right
16:24
Is that not true for various cohomologies as well? I'd have assumed it was.
it is
the essential axiom you need is that the (co)homology of a point are all 0
otherwise it fails, and fails hard
Then I'm a bit unclear on what you meant earlier re: de Rham cohomology having more structure than an arbitrary cohomology theory.
@NaCl hi :D
@Null I'll give it some thoughts once I finish what I'm doing
@Mahmoud have you finished reading the proof?
16:26
(K-theory, bordism homology, etc)
I don't get it @DHMO. :(
oh lord, K-theory
@Mahmoud which step?
@Semiclassical It's got a differential graded algebra structure IIRC. you don't usually get that.
i gotta get to dinner. be back in a while
hmm.
later.
16:26
@Astyx well, you could trie to look over this: it has one flaw, namely the absolute-value-brackets herder-oberschule.de/madincea/aufg0011/induktio.pdf and it is also in german
Now by Law of Excluded Middle, there are two choices for every x∈S:
@Mahmoud that comes from the fact that $f(x)$ is actually a subset of $S$
@Astyx i'm basicly copy/pasting because for myself i now know how it would be done, it's just really tedious in latex
(all those sums and here and there)
@Mahmoud we have that $f(x)\in\mathscr P(S)$ by definition of $f$
and by definition of $\mathscr P$ we have $f(x) \subseteq S$
undrstand?
Yes, and then ?
16:29
so we can have $x\in f(x)$ (or $x \notin f(x)$)
@DHMO, do I need to understand the proof?
@heather which proof?
@DHMO, the proof that $\lim_\limits{x\rightarrow 0} \frac{\sin x}{x} = 1$
@heather oh, if the proof is in your textbook, then why not understand it?
(::shrugs::) okay, I'll figure it out
16:33
@heather do you have any difficulty?
@Mahmoud do you understand?
@NaCl hi :s
Yes @DHMO Can you continue please ?
sry i have no time
@DHMO, yeah, I don't quite understand the book's explanation
@NaCl ah ok =)
16:34
@heather so $\sin x \le x \le \tan x$ right?
I rlly need to implement the function
@DHMO, yeah
@Mahmoud consider the values of $x$ for which $x \notin f(x)$, ok?
And I have a shitload of proofs left on my exercise sheet
@heather so $\dfrac{\sin x}{\sin x} \le \dfrac{x}{\sin x} \le \dfrac{\tan x}{\sin x}$ right?
16:36
good morning
is $\sqrt{(a)^2}$ the same as $|a|$ for all a in R?
@Null yes
@DHMO, right
@meow-mix, good morning
@heather can u simplify that for me?
@DHMO How do we know that $f(x)$ is a proper subset of $S$ ?
16:37
@Mahmoud just subset, not necessarily proper
because $f(x)$ is an element of $\mathscr P(S)$
every element of $\mathscr P(S)$ is a subset of $S$
Yes @DHMO I understand now.
@Mahmoud so do you understand the proof?
did you know, theres a temperature at which oxygen becomes solid and red
@DHMO, sure, $1 \leq \frac{x}{\sin x} \leq \frac{\tan x}{\sin x}$ and then, um, let me think...
@heather $\dfrac{\tan x}{\sin x}$ can also be simplified
16:39
tan x / sin x is cos x i believe
@meow-mix, sure, that's true for everything, theoretically
@meow-mix no.
that'd mean tan x = sin x * cos x
so $a\cdot |b|$ is definitivly always bigger then $a\cdot b$ or does this only hold for positive $a$?
lol im tired
let me think
@Null the latter; but they can also be equal
16:40
$sin(x)/cos^2(x)$?
it's not bigger, it's just not less
@DHMO, okay, so $1 \leq \frac{x}{\sin x} \leq \frac{1}{\cos x}$ right?
or did I do that end part wrong?
@Null $a\cdot|b| \ge a\cdot b \impliedby a>0$
nope, you're right @heather
@heather right
16:40
@DHMO I still didn't get to the end.
okay
@heather so $1$ and $\dfrac1{\cos x}$ both go to $1$ as $x\to0$
@DHMO thanks!
$ 0\cdot |0|\geq 0\cdot 0$ but $0\not >0$.
16:41
@Mahmoud $T$ is a subset of $S$ right?
oh, other direction of implication
@Semiclassical I wrote $\impliedby$
yeah, missed that initially
@DHMO $\lim_\limits{x \rightarrow 0} 1 = 1$ and $\lim_\limits{x\rightarrow 0} \frac{1}{\cos x} = 1$, okay
@heather therefore by squeeze theorem the middle must go to $1$ also
16:42
@DHMO, okay, that makes sense
Oh yes @DHMO
@Mahmoud so $T$ is an element of $\mathscr P(S)$ right?
Yes.
@Mahmoud so there must be an element of $S$ (namely $a$) such that $f(a)=T$, since $f$ is surjective, right?
so now we have $\lim_\limits{x\rightarrow 0} \frac{x}{\sin x} =1$
16:44
Yes @DHMO
@heather so just take its reciprocal
@DHMO, right, and then it's proven
okay, now that makes sense =D
@Mahmoud can it be the case that $a \in T$?
thank you!
@heather you are welcome
16:45
I don't really know @DHMO
@Mahmoud what is the definition of $T$?
affine motions can only consist of linear transformations and translating, right?
$T=S - f(x)$ ? @DHMO
@Mahmoud not sure what you mean
$T = \left\{{x \in S: x \notin f \left({x}\right)}\right\}$
$T=\{x\in S : x \not\in f(x)\}$
:P
16:48
so $a\in T$ means that $a$ satisfies the condition of $T$, right?
you dont need to write "for all"
that doesn't make sense
@meow-mix Yes to that. The earlier thing was wrong.
@DHMO I read the article ..
@Mahmoud Do you understand that $a\in T$ means $a\notin f(a)$?
yeah i realized soon after :P
16:50
Oh, I just realized there's another type of problem I don't know how to solve...limits when x goes to $\infty$ or $-\infty$.
Yes @DHMO
@DHMO if I'm not using induction, would an argument be: a summation of squares is a summation of positive terms. The squaring of an arbitary summation is therefore always smaller then the former. (cauchy schwarz inequality)
@heather observe what the function does
@Mahmoud and recall that $f(a) = T$
all functions approach infinity
16:51
Affine geometry is exactly the same as vector geometry, but without a canonical choice of the origin. So it's everything what happens in vector geometry, modulo translations.
@meow-mix that comment cannot be more misleading
yes it can
Affine transformations, in particular, are linear transformations modulo translations.
@heather try $\displaystyle\lim_{x\to\infty}\frac{2x+1}{3x+2}$
how misleading is that, huh?
16:52
(::gulps::)
@meow-mix Now that's wrong.
hah, see @DHMO, i COULD make it more misleading
$\infty / \infty$?
@meow-mix you win
no heather
16:53
@heather yes
I mean, it's not misleading. It's wrong.
oh hmmm
let me think of something super misleading
$f(x):=0$
@DHMO, what does that even mean? infinity divided by infinity...is that 1, or can it not be simplified, or...
I should really install geogebra and export images to TikZ rather than writing code by hand :(
16:53
@heather it is an indeterminate form, and you cannot stop there
@heather a limit isn't defined as "evaluating" the function at that point
@SteamyRoot wait, this is possible?
@meow-mix, I'm pretty sure it is defined that way, sort of
no, it isn't
Pretty sure one of my colleagues uses that, yes
16:54
for example, the limit as $x$ approaches $0$ from the right, of $\frac{1}{x}$ is not $1/0$.
@DHMO, I think I need to read about this before attempting problems =P
$1/0$ isn't a number per se
@meow-mix, unless you're using a divide by zero algebra =P
@Mahmoud If $a\in T$, then $a$ satisfies the condition $a\notin f(a)$, but $f(a)=T$, meaning that $a\notin T$.

On the other hand, if $a\notin T$, then $a$ does not satisfy the condition, meaning that $a\in f(a)$, meaning that $a\in T$.

Therefore, we have arrived at a contradiction.
@heather err what? i've never heard of an algebraic structure in which the additive identity has a multiplicative inverse
16:56
@meow-mix then you should hear more about algebraic structures
I have... the trivial ring! :D
@SteamyRoot the zero ring?
@meow-mix It is what @Secret and I have been discussing about
Contradiction ! @DHMO
16:56
Meh.
most of the texts i've read don't classify that as having a multiplicative inverse, because $1=0$ in that case
@Mahmoud so do you understand the proof?
Yes @DHMO You are brilliant !
Thanks again :D
@Mahmoud Sorry I have to go now
Good luck on your test
Well, $0 \cdot 0 = 0$ in that ring so $0$ is its own multiplicative inverse
16:57
Revise on the definitions of various concepts
@DHMO, have a good day
and know how to use $\forall$
What do you mean ?
@Mahmoud Familiarize yourself with the definitions of the concepts, and understand when to use $\forall$
16:58
I don't understand here why would that imply $A_5$ is simple ?
@DHMO Okay, thanks for everything :)
@Mahmoud Good luck, bye
@heather thanks, you too
Bye @DHMO :)
@DHMO, thank you for all the help =)
@DHMO First division by zero divisor algebra that does not contain a null semigroup NB and yes, with only 5 elements, you cannot make it associative since the bright red entries are locked out and they are the ones that break associativity. Also if both division by zero divisors and division by zero are present, the structure collapses into the 4 element structure (which we have previously showed to always contain a null semigroup).

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