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00:00
The ones who are unhealthily into geometric algebra, at least.
@TedShifrin yes, I am. I'm just a bit tired of math now
@alan2here: Yeah, I agree. But I know nothing about that sort of discrete mathematics. There are some people here from time to time who do, however.
@TedShifrin what about $\vec F = l \vec B \times \vec I$?
bye
What about it?
@Maks: So ask your question(s).
I'm doing a degree in computer science and the first two years, all my subjects are math, algebra, mathematical analysis, numerical analysis, etc.
Lets start with the basics
00:01
Five minutes ...
A vector is basically a line
@TedShifrin Dont push me haha
No, it's an arrow from the origin to a point in space, NOT a line.
If I grab to points a and b, then (a-b) is a vector
Yes.
It's an arrow that goes from b to a.
If I grab to vectors a and b, then (a-b) is another vector, which goes from the tail of a to the tail of b
00:02
No.
Draw this picture: (a-b) + b = a.
So a-b goes from the head of b to the head of a.
Mmm ok
Do you see that?
Now, isnt a vector supposed to be infinite ?
NOOOOO
Wait, dont yell at me haha
A vector isnt of the form $t(a,b) $ ?
00:05
Well, if I don't yell, you'll keep thinking it's true :P
Good point
No, that's all scalar ($t$) multiples of the vector $(a,b)$. That does form a line.
So a line, is a vector multiplied by a scalar
@TedShifrin That chess challenge where the queens musn't be aboe to take each other, it just reminds me of so many things :)
All possible scalars.
00:06
Right, lines are infinite
@alan2here: Yeah, I get that this is a cool thing. I just know nothing about it. :)
heya @robjohn!!
TY anyway, just an idea :)
maybe I should make it a question
My mathbook says that "A vector that goes through the point (1,2) is of the form (1,2) + t(a,b)" ... @TedShifrin
I want to lodge an official complaint (but Trump says warming doesn't exist): I left Yosemite at 8 AM and it was 34º, I arrived in Santa Clarita about 1 PM and it was 94º. @robjohn: That is obscene.
That is wrong then ?
00:07
It really says that, @Maks? It's a typo. A line that goes through the point $(1,2)$ is all points of the form $(1,2)+t(a,b)$ (for some fixed $a,b$).
No wonder you're confused.
@TedShifrin why does multiplication of vectors not make any sense? i.e. $(1,2)\cdot (3,4)$. Or otherly asked: does there exist something like that, which is not completly different from normal multiplication?
@Null: That does make sense, but not as a vector. It's a scalar.
In the plane, you can make sense of a multiplication by using complex numbers, but that's sorta special.
@TedShifrin Then, now we work with lines
If I want a line L to go through the point (a,b) then $ L = (a,b) + (x_0,x_1) $
What if I want a line that goes through three points ?
Unless the third point is on the line you already have, you won't have a line ... you'll have a plane!
Ok, then lets say two points
point a and b
Can I do L = a + t(a-b) ?
00:11
Sure.
@TedShifrin It was pretty darn cold here this morning, but I don't know what the high was.
No ... this is bad notation all around. $L = \{a+t(a-b): t\in\Bbb R\}$. Note that, @Null and @Maks.
LOL, it got down into the high 50s or low 60s here, robjohn, and everyone was freezing :P
hi friends
What about us enemies?
If I want a line parallel or orthogonal to another, their vectors have to be parallel or orthogonals
00:13
@TedShifrin you are my friend too
@TedShifrin does this describe a line or something else?
Right, @Maks.
@Null: Huh?
@TedShifrin you helped me that other time with a problem can you help me again ?
0
Q: Improper double integrals

Kasmir Khaan$\int \int \frac{ln(1+2x^{2}+y^{2})}{1+x^{2}+y^{2}}dxdy$ over D : $R^2$ using $ln(1+2x^{2}+y^{2})\leq \sqrt{(1+x^{2}+y^{2}}$ and showed convergence by the comparison test ,but according to my friends it diverges . Who is right ? Thanks in advance.

@TedShifrin freezing is below 32 F
shakes head
Now, you can use two equations to write L, normal or vectorial equation
00:15
Thanks, tern :P
@TedShifrin Regarding warming, I think it is folly to ignore the climatic trends, but I think that since we are still recovering from the last ice age that the climate would be warming anyway. However, I don't deny that we are helping it along. In a few thousand years, we will be back up to our skyscrapers in ice again.
The vectorial one is of the form
$ L = {a + t(x,y) : t \in R} $
The normal one is
$ x + y + z = c $
@Maks: Are you staying in the plane or do you get into three-space?
@KasmirKhaan i gave the bounty to your accepted one ;) but you probably noticed haha. hello!
Still plane
00:16
I read today that the arctic is something like 30º out of whack, @robjohn.
@null hi :D did you change your name ?
@KasmirKhaan yes, because i found it funny xd
@null and thanks again ! haha funny indeed
@TedShifrin are normal equation used to represent planes only ? Or lines can be represented that way ??
@Kasmir: We never finished talking. But if you switch to polar coordinates, you have an integral that looks like $\displaystyle\int_0^\infty \frac{\ln u}u\,du$ and that you can settle immediately.
00:17
@TedShifrin out of whack from what? we don't have a good baseline for a long enough period. The earth is warming, but it has been since the last ice age. It will peak and then descend into the next ice age in several thousand years.
but does we have that 2x^2 that bothers me
@Maks: Oh, some books use the word differently for lines. But that's why I asked if we were still in the plane or in 3-space. Because equations of planes will only make sense in 3-space.
we may delay the descent a bit, but the Earth will most likely prevail.
@robjohn that might be the case without humans. just saying.
@Maks Your second equation is in 3-space and is a plane, not a line. You mean something like $(a,b)\cdot (x,y) = c$ for a line in the plane.
@robjohn: I will have to go back and check the precise statement.
@Maks: I'm assuming you know about dot product?
Normal here means perpendicular, which is given by dot product = 0.
00:20
@TedShifrin ok, then normal equation are for planes
Yes, (a,b) * (c,d) = a*c + b*d
Now, to create a plane I need two vectors and a point right ?
Right. No, you can do the normal equation for lines in the plane, too. Your z screwed me up.
So the equation I just typed a few lines up is $ax+by=c$ and that a line with normal vector $(a,b)$.
Oh ok
@Maks That's one way to create it, yes.
If I for example have to create a plane with the points a,b,c
00:22
I'll chose a one of them to the "point", and then get vectors doing a-c and b-c
There I have the two vectors and the point to create the plane
Is that right ?
You chose c to be the point, and so then you have $\Pi = \{c + s(a-c)+t(b-c)\}$, with $s,t$ varying over all real numbers.
And all three points are inside that plane I just created
Oh ok, then
Can you see from what I typed what $s,t$ values give you the points $a,b,c$?
Can't I chose b and do $ \Pi = \{b + s(a-b)+t(c-b)\} $ for example ?
Of course.
00:24
Yes I realized thaat
Now, on multiple variables functions
You're way over your 5-minute limit !!
My rates are going up by $10/hr now ...
Damn it, wait, let me delay my clock 10 minutes
@TedShifrin cheaper than here haha
Mine is independent, though.
Yeah, I gave you a bargain rate discount. You don't want to know my real rates.
Altough \$10 dollars here is \$150, and the brute salary is about $7500 (fixed)
0
Q: For an N by N 2D space with integer coordinates, what is the most unique vectors that can exist that connect pairs

alan2hereTake an N by N 2D space with integer X, Y coordinates, for example if N were 3, then there are 9 possible positions/coordinates in this space. Where M points in this space can be marked. Q: What is the most unique vectors that can exist that connect pairs of marked points in this space? Assume...

00:27
@TedShifrin how do you calculate limits for multiple variable functions ?
That's too long for me to answer easily. You can find at least a dozen such questions on MSE that I've answered.
Mmmm ok
What about level curves ?
is my question well formed?
I already said you need to learn to recognize certain standard curves (like from high school) — lines, circles, parabolas, ellipses, hyperbolas, ....
Mmm I'll try
Too many concepts to remember
00:29
Talk with some of your fellow students.
Thanks for those 30 minutes of your time
Classmates ?
You don't go to school?
See Khan Academy reguarding limits of multivariable fuctions, they have that with multi-variable calculus as a whole subject :)
00:30
@TedShifrin by school you mean high school or college ?
I go to college
I meant university.
@alan2here I'll take a look
So are there not fellow students?
@TedShifrin Theoretically speaking, yes
I have 112 multivariable calculus/linear algebra lectures on YouTube, but the level is a bit more on the theoretical side, although all the computational stuff is in there.
00:31
:) 1 + 2 = 3 to calculus and beyond, sal is obsessed, and everyone benifits from that :)
@TedShifrin but as we are studying computer science, nobody cares much about math, so everyone just memorizes everything and dont learn the logic of it
I want to get the logic
Ironic, because computer science is totally based on logic.
@TedShifrin Can you give me a link ?
It's in my profile, @Maks. But the level may in general be higher than you want.
Yea, but I dont think we will ever use, taylor, maclaurin, derivates and such
Do you think we are ?
00:32
Well, learning isn't just about what you'll use immediately. It's supposedly helping you problem solve in different arenas in the future.
Anyhow, good luck. And if you have a specific question or two for me I'll be glad to help.
Thanks :)
3 blue 1 brown is good too, but only has a few videos so it's about being lucky with yours and his level
and Crash Course
Khan is King :)
you'll need taylor series if you're asked to mimic log function
I'd like to see a KA course on homological algebra.
I'd love one on ("fuzzy"?) surreals. With the magnitudes of L and R the other way round.
00:36
I haven't watched stuff like multivariable calc on KA to see how much I'd hate it.
I am not in general a big fan of videos which tell you how to operationally do something without understanding what's going on. (Kudos to @Maks for wanting to understand.)
is "For every $x\in\mathbb{R}$ there exists at least one $n\in\mathbb{Z}$ with $n\leq x<n+1$." equivalent to: "between any integer and it's successor exists at least one real number"?
you might be suprised
No, @Null, you have the quantifiers wrong.
@TedShifrin what is kudos ??
Praise :)
00:39
Oh ok
@TedShifrin i know what $\forall$ and $\exists$ means. I'm just not sure what the point of the former statement is :/
@TedShifrin I think there are some benefits to a computational approach but they don't outweigh the detriments by a long shot.
@Null: It says that every real number is between some integer and its successor. Actually, that integer is unique (so the original statement should be stronger).
FWIW I do prefer your material to the KA multivariable calc material.
@Fargle: Don't get me wrong. I think computation is extremely important!! All my former students will tell you that. I just think being given things to memorize and regurgitate without understanding is worthless.
00:42
@TedShifrin so "at least one" should be changed to "exactly one"?
I can think if a real number outside of that range
Yes. But your sentence reversed the "for all" and "exists"
@TedShifrin That I completely agree with. I hope when I finally get my degree I can do a lot to affect pedagogy through research.
Well, @Fargle, there's tons of research on learning and pedagogy (that's what keeps schools of education in business), but I'm not sure how much of it I truly value, personally. I've read some of it and been on a bunch of Math Education doctoral committees.
That is, research pedagogical methods and come out with an understanding of how to teach math better. Incoming totally-uncontroversial-on-MSE statement: it's a beautiful subject and I wish it were taught better, from the very outset.
00:43
But certainly it would be good if more university professors knew something about learning and good teaching :P
@TedShifrin how do you tell this to you random kiddo that has to "pass just this one test"? in some sense "stupid memorizing" is a necessary evil we have to cope with. no?
The biggest issue, to me, is how few doctoral programs make any effort whatsoever to train graduate students on teaching.
@Null It's only a necessary evil within a system that requires quantifiable results over pure understanding.
@Null: Generally, students who try to pass by memorizing aren't going to pass.
oh, some (any) integer, sorry
00:45
@TedShifrin professors on our faculty know a lot, and they to researches and everything, but they dont know how to teach to others, they are missing that pedagogical ability
@Maks: I'm sure there are a few that are good teachers. But research universities pay people to do research, not to teach. Sad fact.
notice the differences in teaching competency in Numberphile
@TedShifrin That's definitely a downside. I hope I can take some time to educate myself in that vein, or at least listen to the wisdom of my immediate family--half of them are educators or former educators and one of them is a college professor.
@TedShifrin well, i passed my france exams (not on university, in school) purely by memorizing. it made no fun, it wasnt a PITA, just saying i memorized without context.
I would not have gotten promoted in today's academic world. (I wrote some excellent research papers that were in good journals, but I didn't write nearly enough to make today's administrators happy.)
00:46
among the PHD's and profs there
But, one step at a time. I gotta learn this stuff before I can teach it.
@TedShifrin where are you from ??
Yes, @Fargle, you still have lots to learn :) Try to hurry up and know it all before I'm dead :D
@Maks: The US.
I've read that Pillai's conjecture is still unproven. it states that for any given positive integer k there are only a finite number of pairs of perfect powers whose difference is k
BTW, @Fargle, did you finish that Rudin problem?
00:47
is that true
@TedShifrin how good is your educational system ?
@TedShifrin No, I've been busy. I do have some time now so I think I'll work it out.
@Fargle pure understanding is hard to measure. (strongly relational to turing machine)
@Maks: Since so many foreign students want to come here to study (or at least wanted to before the recent election), I have to assume it's considered above average. I think professors in the US care a little bit more (but not hugely more) about students than professors in Europe and Asia.
@TedShifrin my mother travelled to Los Angeles to give some advices and ideas to high schools on how to teach to new generations and the new ways of learning, not just memorizing everything but understanding it
00:48
Have I beaten Maths.SE with my question, or have I phrased it poorly?
@Null Agreed, but I think there may be better ways to measure it than the ones we already use.
Interesting, @Maks. There are plenty of teachers who try to do a good job in the schools. It's difficult.
@TedShifrin I think I'll have to prove the intermediate result that $\sup AB = \sup A \sup B$ when $A$ and $B$ are positive sets.
Yes, @Fargle, I imagine you will :)
@TedShifrin I'm from Argentina, I study on the UNC (National University of Cordoba) which is a public university, one of the first here in Latin America and the most important one, as it found the pillars of a new way of teaching.
00:50
cracks knuckles
@Fargle do you think, instead of exams, a thesis would be a way better test? (a thesis half a year for a small subject of a subject)
@TedShifrin the good thing is that you have money there, our schools just dont any money to do anything
Oh, interesting, @Maks. I have a good friend (whom I know through MSE) from UBA.
@Null That I can't say. I'm still a student, not a teacher--I can only see the problems in the system, and I'm not educated enough on education itself to judge any solutions.
We don't spend enough money on education; our society doesn't value education enough. The recent election pretty much proves that.
00:51
@TedShifrin That's in Buenos Aires, the capital of Argentina
Yes, @Maks, I know :)
No downvotes, guess it's safe to leave it.
@alan2here: Your English could be improved. But you're asking what's optimal for each given $M$?
@TedShifrin Anti-intellectualism is a dangerous trend in our country. I see it first-hand on a nigh daily basis.
so basicly, any currency that is spend on trash should be spent on education. Now just define trash and we are set.!
00:52
@TedShifrin yes
@TedShifrin well, our last president had only one house and a hotel when she was elected president
And left with aprox 500 properties
We're way past anti-intellectualism now, @Fargle. We're in full-blown racist, xenophobic, homophobic, gun-toting bully mode.
And millons of dollars
So I think we are worst than you
Lovely, @Maks.
I didn't mean for it to be a competition for worse/worst.
Trump is not such a big deal
00:53
Trump is a symtom, not the desease.
Well, we're going to disagree on that.
He's both, @Null.
@TedShifrin Agreed. It's almost hard to say which comes first. Are people racist, etc., because they're anti-intellectual, or are they against current research because it doesn't confirm their prior beliefs?
@TedShifrin maybe, i can't judge that from here.
This is supposed to be the most respected political person in the entire world. ...
My English is great, and of a much higher level than my ability to formally phrase maths questions.
00:54
The whole world is scared s***less now.
@alan2here: If it's so great, try to remove sentence fragments.
"It must be such a privilege to ignore a candidate's bigotry because it doesn't affect you."
@alan2here you would wonder. it is much harder to be precise in english than in math.
typical example: or
SE maths question stuff. I'm reasonably confident in the acceptability of my phrasing in this context and I don't want to break it.
I know less maths vocabulary I suppose.
@TedShifrin and what do you think about Obama ??
Engish OR is maths/logic XOR
00:57
@alan2here not really
e.g English And/Or
I think, as someone who is guilty of participating himself, we should avoid letting this turn into Politics Stack Exchange Chat.
@alan2here the sun shines or it doesnt. is XOR. I will have a toast or an icecream. might be and/or
Yeah, I agree with Fargle. We shouldn't be politicking here.
It's probably my fault for starting it.
I wouldn't say that--any discussion about pedagogy will necessarily bring up social trends, which goes hand in hand with politics...
01:00
can't judge that. just saying that certain individuums on this planet will never be of my interest.
and orange clowns definitivly count to that set.
I think some discussion is fine but once it dominates, it's just...yeah.
Anyhow, Fargle, keep me posted on Rudin (or on my stuff if you ever get back to it ...) :D
G'night, @MikeM.
Well guys, wish me luck, I have to take an exam tomorrow
@TedShifrin Will do! Nearly finished with the lemma.
01:02
Definitely wish you good luck, @Maks.
@TedShifrin the problem with the education system at the moment is: you just have to memorize certain things, otherwise you can't even understand anything.
@TedShifrin want to take the exam for me ? haha
@Null: I won't argue entirely against memorization. In math one must memorize definitions and understand them, or it's pointless. In foreign languages, one must memorize vocabulary and declension/conjugation patterns. Now if one has an "ear" for language and a "brain" for math, this memorization is not just rote ...
I think that's not too practical, @Maks, and it would cost you a fortune to fly me there and teach me Spanish (which I am trying to learn) in a hurry.
Yeah--there's a definite difference between memorization and memorization with understanding, and the second one is far more likely to stick for longer.
@Fargle: As I used to tell my students, often the understanding comes from using the concepts. That's definitely the case with things like differential forms (or the definition of linear independence).
01:06
in biology you learn how cells are built, but until much much later (or possibly never in ones life) you learn WHY they are built this way.
same could be said about calculating.
@TedShifrin good luck with that, fucking spanish is harder than maths haha
@TedShifrin It's the same even with basic things like proofs. When I first was confronted with them I was very intimidated--now that I've done enough, they don't intimidate me nearly as much, because I've used the basic methods of proof a good number of times. But that's more a meta-example.
no compreday espanyol
Sure, @Fargle. The only way to get good at proofs is to keep doing lots of 'em.
Tenemos mas de 100 conjugaciones para cada verbo, y no te olvides de los acentos
01:08
so, a certain proof is very uninteresting. But the methods can be. is that what you are saying @Fargle
@Null: I think that, in general, biology, being such a young subject, is far less well understood than mathematics.
before the tombstone
@Maks: Well, I have learned Latin, French, German, and a bit of Russian, so I'm not too scared of Spanish. I just need to do it.
@Null I'm just saying that proofs in general are easier the more of them you do, similar to how quadratic expressions are easier to factor the more of them you factor.
@Fargle: I did, however, advise many of my students to do algebra before analysis, because the quantifier issues in analysis are so much more complex.
01:11
@TedShifrin Yeah, analysis is still a bit hard to work with for me, but that's because I'm a bit unused to the proof techniques. It was fine in the metric topology examples in Munkres, but past that I struggle.
@TedShifrin would you recommend Analysis II only after Linear Algebra II? (and not simultan)
I feel nobody got my joke :-P
@TedShifrin sweet, I always wanted to learn geman
I was talking about Analysis I, @Null. I have no idea what the contents of those courses is.
(The lesson there is that maybe I shouldn't have taken topology first.)
01:12
There was a joke, @alan2?
@TedShifrin so i'm basicly fucked haha. at least good to know^^
@alan2here I get it, but I don't.
The charecter at the end of a proof.
The square yes?
i am at anaI and algebra I atm
and from my feeling analysis is harder
OK. It is, although there are hard things in algebra.
But some people are more naturally good at estimates and analysis, and other people are more naturally good at algebraic stuff. So it depends on the person.
What's in Analysis II and Linear Algebra II?
@TedShifrin i dont even know. i could show you excercises of both, but still i dont know
and it was said that the only way to get better at proofs was to keep doing them
@Null: Does your university not have a catalogue description for courses?
"until you reach the tombstone", as in forever, keep practicing :)
01:15
I assume Analysis II will be multivariable analysis (like the stuff in my multivariable math book). I have no clue what is in Linear Algebra I and II.
@TedShifrin metric spaces

differential calculating in $R^n$

"normal" differential calculating
normal as in standard
but also, because a toombstone is the last charecter in a proof
I give up :-P
altho this is not everything
@TedShifrin Oh wow, I feel really bad that the proof is super easy with that lemma, haha.
No need to feel bad. Just motivation to impress me more the next time, @Fargle :P
01:18
$b^r \in B(x+y)$ can be written as $b^{p + q}$ where $p \leq x$ and $q \leq y$, and so $b^r \in B(x)B(y)$, and the reverse is just as good.
Sounds right to me.
Welp. Back to the drawing board. The rest of the proofs looked right?
yay
@TedShifrin Analysis II is integrals, taylor, maclaurin,aproximations,functions of multiple variables and its integrals and derivates
And multiple integrals
Linear algebra is vectors,matrx and vector spaces and applications
01:20
LOL, not necessarily at @Null's school, though, @Maks. :)
I know what the subject matter is ... I've taught in universities for about 40 years.
@TedShifrin oh, sorry haha
@TedShifrin as you can read some german, maybe it will clear it up, altho one has to say, the chapter of II is not complete yet, because the semester has not ended.
(i am at analysis I, so im just asking if i should take ana II simultan with algebra II or not)
Yes, I can read German (and even speak it). OK, I was expecting multivariable analysis, both derivatives and integrals. All that's there is derivatives and differential equations. I wonder where they teach differential forms and Stokes's Theorem.
Maybe you need to take a graduate course in manifolds to get to those.
oh, you originally said Linear Algebra II, not Algebra II.
well next semester my choice would be what to take
and my assumtion is that i pass both anaI and algebraI
so i COULD take anaII with algebraII
The algebra is probably not that relevant to the analysis course. You definitely need some basic linear algebra skills.
01:24
Sanity check: $|1 + z|^2 + |1 - z|^2 = 4$ when $|z| = 1$, right?
I doubt it, @Fargle.
Oh, wait.
Cute. Pythagorean Theorem.
Yup. Right.
I don't know that I quite see the connection you do. I just chugged it out computationally.
Draw a picture :)
...yeah, I should've seen that coming. ;)
Uh huh.
One of my favorite linear algebra/geometry exercises (section 2 of either book). A triangle inscribed in a circle with one side a diameter is a right triangle.
01:28
I guess the fact that that still mystifies me shows that, haha. But since you say that, I see it now.
@TedShifrin is this provable with school-methods? (just wondering)
If you don't know that inside-out, do a proof (either using geometry or using linear algebra).
Yes, @Null. Using what is known about inscribed angles in a circle.
@TedShifrin Oh, yeah, duh. The measure of an inscribed angle is half that of the measure of the central angle intercepting the same arc.
Bingo.
But it's a two-line proof using dot product.
Now I hope you'll never forget this :P
I'm like a blind elephant--I never forget where the rocks are as long as I step on them first.
01:33
Cute.
I am a simile machine.
Metaphorically speaking.
OK, I'm off to cook dinner. Learn well!
@TedShifrin cu later
Heh. Will do! Time to push farther into this darned book.
Bis später, @Null.
01:34
hehe
For all triangle rulers the following holds: they get lost in my apartment.
Well well seems like I wont pass this exam
@Maks how so?
@Maks What's on it?
The exam is about series and sequences, taylor, maclaurin ,etc, vectors, functions with multiple variables , multiple integrals and maximum and minimum of functions with multiple variables
It has 5 exercises, 3 of them, are of maximum and minimum, only 2 of them cover the other stuff
And I suck at maximum and minimum
@Maks then do all sort of max/min excercises? (at least i would do that in that case)
when is the exam?
01:49
Tomorrow morning haha
what in particular are you bad in?
i mean
a particular excercise you didnt get
(or you took to long for)
Mmm let me see
I'm doing some maximum and minimum exercises now, this ones seems easy
I could to the level curves one
Hey guys gd morning:
What's the solution set of all identity
Is it R
All real numbers?
what does "of all identity" mean?

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