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14:00
which, if I add them all together, gives $(a-c)^2+(c-b)^2+(b-a)^2=ab+bc+ac$...hm
I'd have expected that to add to zero, not that
@Mahmoud Just tell me the name...please
ahah, there's my typo
the equation I got above should've been $(c-a)^2=ab+bc-ca+b^2$
@PhysicsGuy were discussing solutions to the equations i jst starred
Prove that$$(a\neq b)\lor(b\neq c)\lor(a\neq c) \implies a^2+b^2+c^2\neq ab+bc+ac$$ @PhysicsGuy Sorry.
and then the others are $(a-b)^2=b c+ca-ab+c^2$
and $(b-c)^2=ca+ab-bc+a^2$
if you now add those three equations, the left-hand side is $(a-b)^2+(b-c)^2+(c-a)^2$
14:03
Man, that's hard stuff.
Great work @Semiclassical
bah, should've been $-b^2$ not $+b^2$ and similarly for the otehrs
anyways
on the right-hand side, you find that things cancel to give $ab+bc+ca-a^2-b^2-c^2$
which is zero by assumption
@Mahmoud Prove it for {a;b;c;}=1,2,3
so $(a-b)^2+(b-c)^2+(c-a)^2=0$.
note by it being 3 2nd degree terms it has 6 0s, namely a=b,c b=c,a d=c,b
14:06
meh, I like my way :)
@Semiclassical I'm out of this random problems now Yippieeeee :D
show it for a degenerate case, use that to develop an equation in the general case, then cycle between the variable singled out and add them together :)
@Mahmoud What was the fifth problem that no one solved?
@Semiclassical The one you just solved :)
14:07
Oh
But there was a really hard Induction question
don't know how I'd have done that in general, though
It took half of my time
14:08
gimme gimme
Show....
Please wait
Prove that :$$(\forall n \in \mathbb N^*) : \frac {\sqrt6}{5}+\frac{\sqrt20}{9}+ ... + \frac {\sqrt2n(2n+1)}{4n+1}\lt \frac n2$$
$$\sum_{k=1}^n \frac{\sqrt{2k(2k+1)}}{4k+1}<\frac{n}{2}$$
hmm
for a rather suggestive version of that, divide $n/2$ to the other side
But the question was : Solve using mathematical induction @Semiclassical
:/
14:14
Wow.....
I hated it.
and then that can be written as $$\frac{1}{n}\sum_{k=1}^n \frac{\sqrt{2k(2k+1)}}{2k+1/2}<1$$
oh god
That's a beginning.
hmm. I think $\sqrt{2k(2k+1)}$ is always less than $2k+1/2$
should be by the AM-GM inequality
14:16
Then it's trivial ?
and then the observation is just that the average value of a bunch of numbers that are all between 0 and 1 is itself between 0 and 1
to put that as an actual proof:
y" = 1/y^2
d((y')^2)/dy = 1/y^2
(y')^2 = -1/y
y' = sqrt(-1/y)
dx/dy = sqrt(-y)
x = (2/3)(-y)^1.5
3x/2 = (-y)^1.5
y = -(3x/2)^(2/3)
please check for mistake
d((y')^2)/dy=y''?
yeah, that's not true :/
$$\left(\frac{\sqrt{2k(2k+1)}}{2k+1/2}\right)^2 = \frac{2k(2k+1)}{(2k+1/2)^2}<\frac{(2k+1/2)^2}{(2k+1/2)^2}=1$$
Induction ! @Semiclassical
14:21
not even induction, a direct proof
where in the inequality i've used $2k(2k+1)=4k^2+2k=(2k+1/2)^2-1<(2k+1/2)^2$
yeah. you can do a direct proof. no induction required.
But the question required it.
fair enough.
I doubt it's that hard to show
indeed, it's enough to show that the extra term $\frac{\sqrt{(2k+2)(2k+3)}}{4k+3}$ is bounded above by 1/2
and the same method as I gave above works for that
I solved it as I went close to losing my mind in those 45 minutes of thinking.
14:24
45 minutes
haha
I spent a WEEK on a Ricci flow problem
turns out the result I needed was in do Carmo and Kob-No.
...don't be a dick
you can use a lame form of induction that goes for all n>1 a=a. step one a=a check, if n+1 then a=a check
It was an exam @0celo7
@Mahmoud Oh, that's different
How long was the exam
2 hours
Hell
14:26
thats college
As induction problems go, that one isn't as bad as it could be. But the test was really broad
Were there any number theory ones on it?
No just complicated Implications.
Mmkay
If something like that 7,11 one showed up again, you could use the same approach as before
e.g. if you had 5 and 13 you'd play with numbers until you noticed that $2(13)+(-5)(5)=1$
@semiclassical do you know any good convergent infinite sum to $e*\pi$
$\sum_{k=1}^\infty \frac{e\pi}{2^k}$ :P
14:29
I got to go I have a class now.
i said good ones...
lol
no, i don't know any nontrivial ones
and see youu later mahmoud
See you later Guys @Semiclassical @shaihorowitz Thanks :D
14:30
@PhysicsGuy Also
@DHMO
@0celo7
yeah working on trancedentalism, all i have are infinite products right now
Lol
k.
This clearly does not answer the question. And yes, my question is exactly about this "some work". — HeinrichD 10 mins ago
angry german spotted
5
Q: There are $10$ commutative rings of order $8$

HeinrichDIn this question, rings are unital and associative by definition. I have read that there are $10$ commutative rings of order $8$, but I haven't found a concrete list of them. But I think that they are the following: $\mathbb{F}_2 \times \mathbb{Z}/4$ $\mathbb{F}_2 \times \mathbb{F}_2 \times \ma...

well the question seems to have 2 parts, a prove theres only 10 commutative rings of order 8, b prove that this list doesnt list the same ring twice
@mahmoud I just realized something. Since $a\neq b\neq c$, you can assert that $a>b>c$ without loss of generality (i.e. if the order is different, then just relabel the variables)
In that case, the proof we had above in fact yields the stronger statement that $a^2+b^2+c^2>ab+bc+ca$
and that's an instance of the much more general rearrangment inequality
which asserts that if you've got two sets of $n$ real numbers $\{x_k\},\{y_k\}$, each arranged in increasing order, then any way of taking products of the two lists and adding them together is bounded below by $\sum_{k=1}^n x_k y_{n-k}$ and above by $\sum_{k=1}^n x_k y_k$
So there's a huge room for generalization of it. (plus, the rearrangment inequality is a handy tool in actual problems)
14:40
@shaihorowitz I think it is a student asking to do his homework
Then why bother interacting at all?
plus, the fact that he actually cites papers he's read makes me doubt that it's just homework
it's probably a graded homework which he doesn't want to do on his own
and if he searches on Google he stumbles upon these papers
1) You don't actually know that. 2) Even if that's true, it still leaves the question of why you'd bother to get involved with it in that case.
2) true story
i tried to give him some hints, but apparently he wants me to do all the work, which i feel is not worth doing tbh
I don't know enough ring theory to know whether what you've given is enough, so on that I must remain silent
(my statement above should probably have read: "...the stronger statement that $a>b>c\implies a^2+b^2+c^2>ab+bc+ca$")
15:16
@Semiclassical depends what class
15:59
anyone please see this question ...need help ..!!!!math.stackexchange.com/questions/1985686/…
16:18
At the moment my coffeecup is in a superposition
physics time?
Physics time?
My coffeemachine works at random, ~40% of the time, so when I make coffee I have no way to decide if it's made or not before I watch inside the cup
Ah, interesting.
16:43
Hi @TedShifrin
and @BalarkaSen
Hi @Danu
Why don't I get a hi?
Going to sleep in a couple minutes and fix my sleep schedule
@BalarkaSen Gogogo!
@BalarkaSen Oh wauw
That I live to see this moment
16:46
This fixing is in no way permanent, don't worry
16:59
hi @0celo7 @BalarkaSen
You know a proof is bad when you have $\epsilon,\delta,\eta$ and $\mu$ hanging around
lol
@Adeek Hi
I am starting to really like analysis from my advanced analysis class
God the exercises in Huybrechts are painful :p
17:00
pain is good
yeah you learn from pain.
Do you need help?
@BalarkaSen
What for?
Liking pain is not good
do you want to talk to someone?
i'm not a sadomasochist if that's what you had in mind
No, I didn't have that in mind you weirdo
@BalarkaSen
haha
I better go study for my midterms I will cya you guys brb
@TedShifrin a small question regarding SES's of holo. vector bundles:
Huybrechts told me that I can't always split them, but now he has the following:
First, he talks a bit about about Hermitian vector bundles that decompose $E=E_1\oplus E_2$ in orthogonal fashion (w.r.t. the Hermitian structure).
He also discusses the splitting of holo. vector bundles, saying that the complex-differentiable split is holomorphic iff $b_2$ is of type $(1,0)$. That's all OK.
Now he says: "Usually, one combines both situations. A SES of holo. vec. bun.'s can be split by choosing the orthogonal complement $E^\perp\cong E_2$ of $E_1$ with respect to given Hermitian structure on $E$."
This is purely about complex-differentiable splitting, right?
Because if it's about "holomorphic splitting" I'm confused by it
17:21
@Danu Yes, he's speaking differentiably.
Aigh't.
Because else everything would split right, because anything admits a Hermitian structure.
17:54
@Danu: Ordinarily, "complex differentiable" = "holomorphic." You meant $C^\infty$, I presume.
For example, our favorite friend, the Euler sequence, cannot split holomorphically. (BTW that's when we were talking conical pictures.)
@TedShifrin Oh, sorry. Complex, differentiable? :)
@TedShifrin Huybrechts lists that too, but I don't know why not.
The "complex" is sorta redundant, so just say smooth :)
For example, because there are no global (holomorphic) sections of $\mathscr O(-1)$.
Ah, so there is no "backwards map" that, after applying $\mathcal O(-1)\to \mathcal O^{\oplus n+1}$, yields identity.
Right. A splitting is equivalent to a splitting at either point.
That was a crummy sentence. The SES $0\to A\to B \to C\to 0$ splits with a map $C\to B$ iff it splits with a map $B\to A$.
I know :)
I'm just trying to process why a suitable map $\mathcal O^{\oplus n+1}\to \mathcal O(-1)$ would give a global section
18:01
BTW, do you have any idea what this guy is talking about?
Because you can take a section of $\mathscr O\subset \mathscr O^{\oplus (n+1)}$.
@TedShifrin So, assume you have a particle that, from your perspective, has velocity straight up (i.e. "made one turn-around") once per second
Then what does its path look like
Why does the intrinsic rotation (the earth around its own axis) affect the orbit of the earth around the sun (pretending constant speed)?
We're talking point particle
No rotation around its own axis
Oh wait... The comment seems to suggest otherwise.
I give up.
I give up, too.
Plus his spelling sucks. :P
@TedShifrin $\mathcal O(1)$ doesn't embed into that, right?
Or did you mean $-1$?
18:05
Wait.
Where did $\mathscr O(1)$ appear from?
You wrote $\mathcal O$ above
I know.
I assumed you meant (1)
Oh, lol
Why would you assume that? :D
hahaha
$\mathcal O$ as in trivial
18:06
Uh huh, as in $\Bbb C\hookrightarrow \Bbb C^{n+1}$. (Damn arrows.)
Yeah, got it :p
Right, if we want something that can compose to identity then a global section of $\mathcal O^{\oplus n+1}$ should give one of $\mathcal O(-1)$
@TedShifrin Seriously, wtf, who decided that the appearance of right in the word describing the arrow VARIES WITH THE TYPE OF ARROW?!?!?!?!
WHAT THE HELL MAN
/rant
It does make sense. I was using the adjective for the hook, not the arrow.
\hookrightarrow but \curvearrowright ?!?!
No senserino
Right, and a global section of $\mathscr O^{\oplus (n+1)}$ is an injection $\mathscr O\hookrightarrow \mathscr O^{\oplus (n+1)}$.
When I was typing that section on group actions in my topology course I went nuts for 10 minutes, then made a command \action :P
18:11
Wait, there's a \curvearrowright?
For group actions man
$G\curvearrowright M$
Oh, I never write that notation.
Why not? It's super economical
Hmm, it's not in Kopka & Daly.
$G\curvearrowright M\curvearrowleft G'$---how many words do you need for that?!
18:13
OK, it is in The LaTeX Companion.
It is in Kopka & Daly
I prefer words, in general. I never use $\exists$ or $\forall$.
(draft 4th edition, free online)
@TedShifrin I have $\exists$ and $\forall$, too.
Oh, I have the (printed) 3rd edn.
But seriously try describing a (double) group actions from left and right.
18:13
Get back to work.
(and that's actually useful in discussions of fundamental group & coverings :P)
@Ted My adviser said I should give aforementioned 5 minute talk.
It shows up in differential geometry, actually. Things like $H\backslash G\/K$.
Okay, sir.
Always weirds me out when Indian-ish types use "sir".
Grr ... Now I don't remember how to typeset a plain \.
18:15
Holomorphic connectionssss
haha, nice try @Ted hahahaha
`\ `
I think it's something like \backslash
I use the shorthand notation (for exists and forall) on the board sometimes. Never in homeworks or notes or anything anyone else will read. I think I did as an undergrad in the first grad course I took and the grader penalized me significantly for it.
That's what I used. It's too big.
I give up.
OK, @PVAL. I wasn't telling you not to. I was just saying that I hated the two 10-minute talks I gave in my "career."
@PVAL-inactive Oh the board, and in notes taken while in a hurry for sure
Ya I realize that. I was actually just apprehensive about it myself.
I was trained by Jim Munkres (as an undergraduate) never to use symbols. I use abbreviations, of course, and symbols like $\in$ and $\implies$. I told my students they could write shorthand in their notes, if they wanted.
But I cannot deal with sentences that are just strings of symbols.
18:18
Totally agree
I've noticed a tendency for analysts to use crazy notation, here at LMU.
When someone is also saying the sentences out loud, it doesn't bother me. I'm very auditory though.
The guy teaching undergraduate analysis is terrible, notation-wise. He keeps on using $(X,\mathcal O_X)$ for a topological space throughout :P
Is $\mathcal O_X$ the sheaf of continuous functions to $\Bbb R$??
Lol
> undergraduate analysis
That's the symbol he uses for a topology on $X$.
Ugh. Ugh. Ugh.
18:19
It's really terrible
I bet I could find people who'd put sheaf theory in undergrad analysis.
That's a collection of open sets? Seriously?
And my tutee insists on using it
And, even worse, because he very consistently refers back to all his small lemma's and whatnot by full name in almost every proof, she does too.
So every proof becomes terrible.
There's a name for every lemma and every theorem? So all lemmas and theorems are the stature of Baire Category and Stone-Weierstrass?
@PVAL-inactive Just go to Harvard. I bet plenty of them would love top.
18:21
But I hate reading proofs in books that make you look up every single Proposition and Lemma while you're reading. I tried not to overdo that in my books, but a certain amount is necessary so as not to be ponderous.
I hate books which have proofs of important theorems which refer to nontrivial exercises.
"Since for every $U\in\mathcal O_X$, $f(U)\in \mathcal O_Y$, and by lemma 3.4.21 $f(X\setminus U)=f(X)\setminus f(U)$ for $f$ bijective, we have for every $U\in \mathcal O_X$, $f(X\setminus U)=f(X)\setminus f(U)$ where $f(U)\in\mathcal O_Y$."
Actual sentence from the notes on what I told her about today :D
Well, @PVAL, sometimes you want to leave some technicalities to the student/reader.
@TedShifrin They're all numbered by section.subsection.number.
Hmm, I hope $f$ is more than a continuous surjection there, @Danu. :)
18:23
@TedShifrin I think when he says nontrivial he means Hartshorne nontrivial.
@TedShifrin Continuous bijection
Then the first sentence is wrong, @Danu.
You need OPEN map.
Not to be picky or anything.
You misunderstood :P
I was actually thinking about the big McD-Sala book.
18:24
It was already established that $f$ is open
This sentence establishes that $f$ is also closed
I think Hartshorne isn't that guilty of that.
See how confusing this is? :P
Ohhhh, so there are more hypotheses than continuous bijection?
@PVAL-inactive J-hol?
Most of the important theorems are contained entirely in the exercises.
18:24
@TedShifrin "Since" implies "it has already been shown that".
@PVAL: I agree. That is lazy authoring.
OK, @Danu. At this point, I'm curious what the hypotheses are.
Book is fucking huge without proving them. But that doesn't make J-hol an easy read.
Like $X$ compact and $Y$ Hausdorff? :P
@TedShifrin It was the classic compact-to-Hausdorff proposition. You need to establish that $f$ is open, but first show that that is equivalent to showing $f$ si closed.
Gotcha.
18:25
@TedShifrin Hehe, any mathematician can recognize it from a mile away
I think when a book borders on a monograph (as opposed to a textbook), you should prove or reference everything you need.
@PVAL-inactive I'm not defending it.
@PVAL: Proving every single thing makes it virtually unreadable. I think there's some judgment involved.
I don't dispute your saying they manifest poor judgment.
@TedShifrin But is referencing everything not proven unreasonable?
It takes judgment. I'm not going to reference every result from mathematics that is well known to someone reading at that level, NO.
In a graduate analysis book, I'm not going to reference every result from undergraduate analysis and topology, or group theory.
Good grief.
18:27
@TedShifrin That's not what he means.
I already said judgment is required.
No, I mean if a result pertaining directly to the subject matter, i.e. not something assumed as a prerequisite, is not proven, should it be referenced?
I don't know many graduate analysis texts that actually require lots of references.
I won't sign off on a blanket yes.
We're talking about monographs, not grad analysis books, right?
18:29
If it really is a simple exercise based on what's been done, I am fine with leaving it without proof or reference.
Guillemin and Pollack leave a lot of stuff as exercises :3
(just trolling)
If it is a complicated, subtle, big deal, then, yes, it needs a reference.
I think Wheeden-Zygmund for instance is designed to be read by someone who potentially never took undergrad analysis, topology or group theory.
I really like that book :s
@TedShifrin For instance, Hawking & Ellis use a nontrivial result from Hodge theory, and say "by a theorem of Hodge" without any reference or actually stating the result.
@TedShifrin We're talking about a book on J-holomorphic curves. I think it's safe to say we're not complaining about sequential compactness properties.
18:30
@MikeM, granted. But then @0celo interjected to make it a general issue.
Sequential compactness is the worst though.
Well I even disagree with Ted's grad analysis assertion so I am happy to argue that.
Metric spaces are hell
I agree that the result of Hodge should be made a bit more specific, with a reference in the bibliography. (Like [13], p. 423.)
LOL, y'all should do more math and less arguing. I have to call the pharmacy.
I'm working.
18:31
MORE ARGUING
I have class.
@Danu: You and I did enough of that yesterday. I'm done. :)
I still think Wheeden-Zygmund doesn't require any real background from undergrad analysis/topology.
@TedShifrin arguing intensifies
I do not know that book at all, @PVAL, so I can't react.
18:32
Hi chat
By the way, I'm really liking symplectic geometry so far. Are J-holomorphic curves as cool as their name?
I think most of the fundamentals from measure theory are distinct enough from the fundamentals of the kind of classical analysis that there isn't really that much needed to cover.
@PVAL-inactive You probably need general mathematical maturity though.
@Ted I think its one of the best expositions I've read at that level in any topic. It is somewhat lacking on some exercises.
18:43
@Semiclassical what's the usual reference for actual proofs of special functions stuff?
I know Abramowitz and Stegun has everything
But suppose I want to see why a certain generating function works.
Courant and Hilbert?
christ
Christ?
Typically if a proof is classical enough, you can just refer to a standard text instead of the original research.
@PVAL-inactive Sure, I'm asking if Courant and Hilbert is still the standard text or if someone has come up with a better one in the past 60 years.
good evening
18:59
Hello
How to determine from unit circle that tan(x)=sin(x)/cos(x)?
what are your definitions of tan, cos and sin?
I don't entirely understand your question.
All of them are trigonometric functions.
You're asking to prove a fact about these trig functions. So you need to start with the definitions.
19:17
Oh, I just found the answer in a textbook. Thank You all for Your help :-)
Why is the algebra part of algebraic geometry so much easier than the geometry one?
I'm back, hello guys ! $:)$
19:44
Is it easy to see that an everywhere nonzero holomorphic form on a Kaehler manifold is closed?
I found the statement as a claim without further explanation, but I don't see how to approach this
hi chat
@Danu holomorphic 1-form?
@0celo7 I think any Math Methods book would have the proofs re: special functions and their generating functions
i'd say the one I usually use, but uh
my brain isn't working right now :/
which one is it?
umm
are you ok?
I'm totally blanking on the name of it, tbh
Arfken
there we go
that's a standard one, yeah
19:56
ok I'll pick it up from the library on my way home
assuming they have a copy
they should, yeah
someone's probably checked it out
@Semiclassical there are certain books that are always checked out, e.g. Rudin, Steenrod, etc.
could probably find it in Erdelyi, if you're willing to look up a copy of that online
I am willing
let me find it
19:57
I know I could find it
@Semiclassical don't incriminate yourself
There's stuff on this in any standard book like Hildebrand or Kreyszig on Advanced Engineering Mathematics.
nah, it's not an incrimination thing
there's a standard source for Erdelyi online if memory serves
libgen?
covers eyes and ears
19:58
maybe?
Ted, any idea bout my question?
@Danu $d\omega = \partial \omega$, and if that's zero you could try to apply a maximum principle somewhere maybe
@TedShifrin oh please. I could request the library scan the whole thing and send me a PDF. That's 100% legal but getting it from a Russian server isn't?
@0celo7 yes?
morally legal

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