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15:21
@MikeMiller Actually, I computed $w(X = \Bbb{RP}^2 \times \Bbb{RP}^2)$. Say $w$ of the first factor is $1 + a + a^2$ and the second is $1 + b + b^2$. Then $w_1(X) = a + b$, $w_2(X) = a^2 + ab + b^2$, $w_3(X) = a^2b + ab^2$ and $w_4(X) = a^2b^2$. I don't see a top dimensional $w_1^iw_2^jw_3^kw_4^\ell$ which is distinct from the ones of $\Bbb{CP}^2$, curiously.
Correct.
Whew. (So there should be a (unoriented, of course) cobordism from one to the latter which I don't expect I will see)
Thanks.
Heh, checking my shelf in jstor, I had this in there.
I just use scihub.
The note is more important than the rest, which is fully explicit but maybe not conceptually satisfying.
15:38
I think you have mentioned scihub before; I had forgotten the domain name.
@BalarkaSen sci-hub.cc
I found it. Was saying I didn't remember it before.
alright, past perfect
Maybe I should spend the next few hours doing differential geometry.
@BalarkaSen compute some Riemann tensors
15:56
don't
@BalarkaSen You wanted to do something concrete
self-dual parts of Weyl tensors or nothing
Maybe he should compute the curvature tensors under a conformal transformation
@0celo7 no
No, you just look those up.
16:15
@MikeMiller I once computed the curvature tensors for $S^n$
by hand
Hello everyone
Can you help me(tell me how) to find for which values of 'x', this is true: symbolab.com/solver/step-by-step/…
@SuperMan it isn't an equation
yes but it must make sense
@0celo7 That's hardly unreasonable.
@MikeMiller Sure
I wasn't saying it was
16:26
any ideas?
I computed the metric of the sphere in stereographic coordinates, where it is conformally flat
Then used the conformal transformation properties of the curvature tensors
Imagine what would happen if the base of common logarithm be (-10) or any negative number
Why Henry Briggs didn't allow negative base of a logarithm .... I repeat again I am saying about the base of log.....
X^n = a. ..... where a is a negative number.... so n will be a based log N
16:49
Thanks
I solved it
2
Q: Why we can write $(\nabla_{\dot\gamma}Y)(0)=\nabla_{\dot{\gamma}(0)}Y$ or $(\nabla_XY)(p)=\nabla_{X^p}Y$?

user220178Suppose $(M,g)$ is a Riemannian manifold with affine connection $\nabla$. In order to prove that for every path $\gamma:I\to M$ and for every $V,W\in\mathcal T(\gamma)$, if $$\partial_t\langle V,W\rangle=\langle D_tV,W\rangle+\langle V,D_tW\rangle$$ then connection is compatible with metric, for ...

17:12
Hlw guys why base of log can't be negative?
Do you know how the base of a logarithm is defined?
18:10
I wanna find the inverse Laplace transform to $$\frac{s^2}{1+s^2}$$
Oh, maybe a convolution integral
18:30
@user220178 Are you here?
Anyone have an idea on how to find $$\mathcal{L}^{-1} ( \frac{1}{(s^2+4)(1+1/s^2)} )$$
@DanielFischer In this answer, why does repeated integration by parts only give the first term of an asymptotic expansion for the integral $\int_{0}^{\pi/4} \cos(xt^{2}) \tan^{2}(t) \, dt $ as $x \to \infty$? The accepted answer says that it's because the second term blows up at the $t=0$ limit. But by choosing $1- \frac{\cos(xt^{2})}{2x}$ for the antiderivative of $t \sin(xt^{2})$, the second boundary term vanishes at the $t=0$ limit.
Is the issue the size of the remainder after integrating by parts twice?
19:18
@0celo7 here ?
@Lozansky Bromwich contour then residue theorem?
@Adeek Hmm?
nvm @0celo7 I understood it
I was gonna ask a question about how prof defines this thing
but I understood it now
what thing?
I didn't understand why is $\pi$ open map
also how the transition maps are defined
19:25
@Adeek I don't see why, what is $\omega$ supposed to be?
so I guess the way he is doing this is that
$\omega$ comes from the set of lattice
and then V + w is just an element of the equivalence class.
so he is taking the union elements of the equivalence class.
or union of equivalence classes that defines $\pi(V)$
but I still don't get why it is open
Ok
I see why is it open.
$V\subset\Bbb R^n$ is open, right?
why ?
yeah
A set $O\subset \Bbb R^n/\sim$ is defined to be open iff $\pi^{-1}(O)$ is open in $\Bbb R^n$, right?
yeah
this by definition of quotient topology
19:30
So we want to check that $\pi(V)$ is open in $T$.
yeah
To do this we compute $\pi^{-1}(\pi(V))$ can check that it's open in $\Bbb R^n$.
yes
but then why is that open in $\mathbb{R}^n$
Because it's just a bunch of copies of $V$, displaced by each $\omega\in\Lambda$
That sum should be $\bigcup_{\omega\in\Lambda}(V+\omega)$
oh oh I see
oh ok
19:31
Where $V+\omega=\{v+\omega\mid v\in V\}$
ok yes that makes sense
can you explain how does that defines an open coordinate ?
I haven't read that part
I dunno even what that means
how is $#\{V + p \cap ... \} \leq 1$?
Ok, so $\#\{(V+p)\cap \Lambda\}\le 1$ for all $p\in\Bbb R^n$
yeah what is that
19:33
Cardinality of the set
yes but how can it be less than or equal to 1
@RandomVariable I haven't analysed it completely, but I think the problem is that you then get an integral $\int_0^{\pi/4} \bigl(1 - \cos (xt^2)\bigr)F(t)\,dt$ with an $F$ that blows up quadratically at $0$. If you split the integral at $x^{-c}$, the first part is basically $Ax^{2-3c}$, and the rest is dominated by $x^{2c}$. With $c < 2/5$ you have something that blows up as $x\to\infty$, so you don't get $O(x^{-2})$ from the whole thing. More careful analysis may get the $O(x^{-3/2})$.
Tell this prof to put parentheses around stuff, yeesh
yes it is confusing
@Adeek Ok, let's take a simple lattice in $\Bbb R^2$
19:34
so (V + p) is just translation of V by p right ?
Say $\Bbb Z^2$
@Adeek Right.
ok
So what you need is that $V$ is small enough so that it never covers more than one point in the lattice.
yes
That's what that condition means
19:35
oh ok
yeah we can always do that
I agree visually that we can always do that
Yes just pick a small enough ball
You can prove it
and this defines a homeomorphism is by construction
Pick a ball with radius smaller than the distance between any two lattice points
You have to prove that this is never zero, but ok
Should be easy
yeah
Maybe you need half the distance
Something like that.
19:37
yeah
ok I agree now I understand thank you
cool
yeah I am just gonna read his notes and ask questions here if I don't understand something.
Because I have other classes if I spend time reading books in diff geo I will be in trouble for my other classes
hello everyone
@0celo7 I bet there is a more natural differential structure on the torus than this right ?
I guess we can prove that Torus is cartesian product of $S^1$ and I know a very natural differential structure on $S^1$
then we know that there is a natural differential structure on the cartesian product of differential manifolds.
This construction defines "torus" for all dimensions.
19:43
I see
It's probably equivalent to $S^1\times S^1$ in the $n=2$ case.
it is also equivalent to $S^1 \times S^1 \times ... S^1$ if n = m for example as well
where we take the cartesian product m times
But the lattice construction defines a bunch of different tori, not just the standard one.
I don't remember if they're diffeomorphic
I see
brb algebra class
I will be back in an hr
hello all, can anyone answer an operations research question for me?
I know the policy is not to "ask to ask" but still
I'm stuck trying to learn sensitivity analysis. How does one derive what the value of the dual price is for a given resource if I've obtained an optimal solution via simplex
20:09
good evening
good afternoon
20:24
Hi @Alessandro
@pingOfDoom, better to start by searching on the main site when it's a field that's not very common. I am not aware of anyone who frequents chat who knows OR.
hi @Alessandro, @Balarka
Hi @Ted!
Hrumph. Alessandro left without saying hi.
He probably didn't notice.
My browser's doing all sorts of funny things - it doesn't open MSE now. Maybe I'll fix it sometime soon, or crush it.
i guess ok thanks
20:31
On a different note, completely tired after doing translation for my school project.
its not as "purely mathematical" as a lot of the other subjects you guys discuss but i figure i would give it a shot
@pingOfDoom: I'm not knocking it ... just warning you that it's not commonplace for a small number of math people to understand or know it.
We have a number of people here who know a lot of applied things ... but more on the physics-y side.
I gave an answer here , i assume it Will not be accepted ...
0
A: Generalization of Liouville's theorem

mickStart with an element of E0 and the first prime (2). Exp(exp(x)). ( 2 iterations of exp ) Let y1 (x) be the integral of that. Clearly y1 is an element of E1 and not of E0. Now take the second prime (3) Y1(y1(y1(x))) ( 3 iterations of y1 ) Let y2 (x) be the integral of that. Clearly y2 is an ...

What do you think ?
@mick: I don't think about that stuff. Sorry.
Ok. Maybe someone else
20:39
@Balarka: Probably there's something corrupt in a file that your browser uses. I haven't had any issues.
Do not use windows
I never have :) I've used only Macs since 1988. :)
Possibly. I'll fix it later.
I am too used to Windows.
Applauds for Ted
1 prayer for Balarka
Just bought a new one a week ago, @mick :P
20:40
Good
I wonder how people Will respond to my answer.
Im going to look at other unsolved questions ... Bubye
Bubye, mick :)
Hi @Ted and @Balarka
I didn't leave, was just making a cup of tea
Alessandro :)
hi @PVAL :)
You're looking for unsolved questions and I'm looking for an answer to an old question I posted, seems like we should get along well @mick :P
20:56
Anybody know anything interesting about Freudenthal-Tits magic square?
I'm sorry to interrupt guys, but I have a little question which is too "small" to be posted on the site. The question is, what does $[K:F]$ stands for?, for instance a theorem says "If $\alpha$ is an algebraic number of degree $n$ then $[\mathbb Q[\alpha]:\mathbb Q]=n$"
I?m sorry if this is not the place to ask such a question
dimension of $K$ as a vector space over $F$/
Oh ok, thank you so much!
In your particular example that is the same as the degree of the minimal polynomial of $\alpha$ over $\mathbb{Q}$
All right then! thanks!
21:01
oh Hey @TedShifrin
heya @Ali
and @BalarkaSen
@TedShifrin I have been looking at 7 dimensional manifolds
have they stared back?
I can't tell they didn't get projected well
hi all
21:03
"And if thou gaze long into a manifold, the manifold will also gaze into thee." - Nietzsche
I find the cross product that you get from octonion imaginaries awesome
I was speaking to a researcher in the field about it today
The group g2 is important
You've surpassed me, @Ali :)
@TedShifrin only in the lunch queue
G2 is good shit.
I agree mike
21:05
octonians aren't a field. Fields are associative.
ha ha @PVAL
i never said they were
Man the stuff that you guys talk about, all the big words,
@pingOfDoom I am only talking big words here
makes we wish I did a minor in mathe
21:06
I have the faintest idea of what I am talking about really
I'm an engineer, so while I know some stuff, you guys are all way ahead
octonian imaginaries sound really cool lol
is that like an imaginary number in base 8?
@MikeMiller do you know much about freudenthal magic square?
@pingOfDoom sortof, kindof an 8 dimenional complex number
wtffffff
i,j,k,l,m,n,o,p
so with all those components?
But they lose nice properties like associatiativity and stuff
mind blown
what level in one's mathematical education does one encounter that?
backend of a bachelors or graduate/phd?
21:10
graduate, @pingof, and plenty of people never do
Yeah the idea is to apply cayley-dickson construction (a, b) x (c, d) = (ac-db, da+bc) where a, b, c, d are from the last space
@Ali Most of the people I can imagine it being aren't in the UK. Dominic Joyce? Or was it a visitor?
@pingOfDoom So if you start with complexes you get quarternions then oct
I don't and given the name I am probably not too excited.
Ali needs to start reading all of Robert Bryant's work soon :)
21:11
whats a complex?
in that context?
Well, Joyce gave the compact example.
complex numbers he meant, @pingof
@MikeMiller Its about a symmetry between lie and jordan algebras
21:11
if i want to teach myself real and complex analysis
what should i look at?
@MikeMiller here
I mean that symmetry isn't so obvious where it comes from
what's your background in proof mathematics, ping?
Heya @KevinD ... haven't seen you in a year!
i took a semester of discrete mathematics
@Ali That's not the sort of symmetry that excites me.
where i did some strong and weak induction. thats about it lol
21:15
That's it, @pingof?
Who were you talking to about G2?
some of it came up in calc ii
but yeah
Is there a particular reason you say you want to learn "real and complex analysis"? What's your goal?
@MikeMiller Johannes Nordström
no particular reason. I wanted to take a minor in math when i got into undergrad but the schedule was tough with my engg courses
its purely for interest
21:17
@TedShifrin Howdy! Yea I've only been by a few times at odd hours, never while you were here. Been trying to take your advice of course, get more work done by spending less time in math chat.
i also need resources for multivariable calc, and PDEs
Oh, well, you should start with multivariable calculus and linear algebra.
yeah so i know linear algebra
although i guess my course wasn't as mathematically rigorous you guys
as you all'
You might look at Churchill & Brown for complex or a book by Wunsch (it has some nice applications to EE in it).
so there is actually one reason, that that reminds me of
21:18
For real analysis, Abbott's Understanding Analysis is relatively readable, but still it'll be very tough if you haven't done proof mathematics seriously.
Wouldn't have guessed.
But you need multivariable calc before you look at complex analysis, @pingof.
im taking a class in signal processing and a lot of the mathematics there, with regards to fourier and z and laplace transforms
he just kind of skims over
@MikeMiller What are you interested atm?
Another book you would find very interesting is Gilbert Strang's Introduction to Applied Mathematics ...
he does a lot of fascinating stuff, not so bogged down with proofs.
21:20
oooh ok
signal processing in the 4 weeks that ive been in it has effectively been a math class
I taught a year-long math major course out of it, but I worked hard to put in more proofs and derivations of things. One of the things that most fascinated me was about signal processing (about band-limited exact reconstruction) ... also Kelvin angle for the angle of the wake behind a boat in a lake. Such amazing stuff.
oooh ok
Have a quick complex analysis question for you all. Say $f(x) = \cos{x}/(x^2 + 1)$, the nth coefficient in the Laurent (Taylor) expansion around 0 is given by the residue of $\cos{x}/(x^2 + 1) x^{-n-1}$ at 0. Can we go to the 'other side of the path
oops
But you absolutely need solid linear algebra and multivariable calc (partial derivatives, line integrals, double integrals, Green's Theorem).
Don't say hi, @Kevin ... :P
ok. ill get started!!!
thanks!
21:22
Have fun, @pingof.
for that introduction into where i need to go
lol ill keep you posted
and look instead at the residues at i, -i, $\infty$ or can we not do that because of the essential singularity at $\infty$?
@TedShifrin I did say hello! And tried to compliment your advice-giving skills simultaneously
@Ali I like manifolds at all times. What sort of answer are you looking for?
Ooops, sorry I missed it, @Kevin. My abject apologies :)
@MikeMiller What are/were you looking at today for example
21:23
You can still define residues with an essential singularity. The problem is that $\infty$ is not an isolated singularity, so it's not an essential singularity.
Oh maybe I should be more careful with my LaTeX, I meant $f(x) = (\cos{x})/(x^2+1)$
I knew what you meant.
Just write out the Taylor series of $\frac{\cos z}{z^2+1}$ at $0$. That's easy to do ... unless you have to get arbitrary $n$. What exactly are you trying to do?
Oh I see, how can we tell it's not isolated in this case? If I remember the definition is if $f$ is holomorphic in $\lvert z \rvert > R$ then the singularity at $\infty$ is isolated
Oh, duh, I'm sorry. I was thinking $\cos$ was in the denominator ... I'm a dope.
BUTTTTT ... remember that what makes sense is residue of a meromorphic 1-form $f(z)dz$, so at infinity you have to put in the correct transformation. You need the residue of $-\frac{f(1/z)}{z^2}$ at $0$.
But why in the world would you want to do residues at 3 points instead of 1 ??
I mean, this is a powerful thing to do sometimes ... but ...
Anyhow, it's not that bad to actually write down what the terms of $\sum (-1)^j \frac{z^{2j}}{(2j)!} \sum (-1)^k z^{2k}$ are ...
Soliloquy done
Yea, it's a bit odd. What I'ma ctually trying to do is understand very precisely what we mean when we write an asymptotic expansion ofa function, like $f(k) k \to \infty \sim \frac{a_1}{k} + \frac{a_2}{k^2}$
(And Yea I did write that down, and compute them, but maybe I made a mistake somewhere because I didnt get the same coefficients as the taylor expansion around 0)
And I realize that in the case of integer power of $k$, for example, what we're doing is a Laurent expansion
21:31
It's just a way of shifting indices from what I wrote down to get a $z^{-1}$ term. It's doing absolutely nothing different from the Taylor series expansion.
And all I'm trying to check right now is that if you have a function like $(\cos{k})/(k^2 + 1)$ that has an asymptotic expansion with cosines and not jsut powers of $k$ that you don't end up getting spurious terms by look at residues
I guess I don't get your point.
I apologize, I dont think what I said is going to make much sense
Are you restricting to real/imaginary or something?
@Ali Today I taught and am climbing. After this I'm helping a friend shop and watching Mr. Robot. Yesterday I read a paper about the cohomology of Hilbert manifolds which was pretty good, but not really a priority.
21:35
Here's the question: suppose you're given $f(k)$ and a claimed asymptotic expansion for $f(k)$ when k is large. How exactly do you go about checking that the expansion you were given is correct? If the terms int he expansion are integer powers of $k$ then it's obvious, you're just doing Laurent expansion, you can check by computing residues. But what if the expansion has other things in it, oscillating terms like this $\cos{k}$.
That's what motivated this exercise.
@Kevin: I assume you're talking about $k$ as frequency and, in particular, it's real?
Yea, it happens that $k$ is some kind of wave-number and is generally real. (Although its extension to the complex-plane is a common thing to do )
Well, $\cos k$ oscillates for $k$ real, and $\cos (ik)$ blows up exponentially ... So it matters.
Are you coming at this from some sort of stationary phase analysis?
Scattering theory. Where f(k) could represent the scattering amplitude of some process, for example
Quantum mechanical treatment of scattering theory?
21:38
OK. But you're expecting (real) decay as $k\to\infty$ and you're basically trying to see at what rate it decays?
Ah, I should yield the floor to @Semiclassic now. :)
nahh
i'm not staying long
plus, scattering theory is a pain
LOL
I've heard more about inverse scattering in colloquia over the years than I have about scattering.
heh
I know what that is, in fact
I know almost nothing.
Yea in this problem, it's actually known how the function decays in this case, and I'm just trying to see how we can compute the coefficients of the decay, given the function $f$
21:40
So you're trying to do a Taylor/Laurent expansion around infinity, effectively.
the case of inverse scattering I know, though, amounts to doing the Schrodinger equation in 1D. the usual textbook scattering problem, though, is 3D
Yeah, with $\cos k$ in there, that's going to suck big time.
i.e. send a plane wave in and see a spherical wave scattered out
But clearly (working over $\Bbb R$) the function is $O(1/k^2)$.
I don't see any sense to the question is we allow $k\in\Bbb C$ going to $\infty$.
Haha, yea that's what I feared. If its just $1/k^2$ or $1/k^4$ that' easy becuase I know I can extend $f$ to the complex plane and relate these coefficients to the residues at the poles somewhere in the complex plane, but this oscillaitng stuff I'm not sure if something similar is possible
21:42
back later
Bye, @Semiclassic
Forget residues. You just write down Laurent series.
Yeah, in the complex plane, $\cos$ is wild as you go off to $\infty$.
If you restrict to a known tube around the real axis, you can certainly say something.
okay, this is funny
as i was packing up my laptop, i noticed the library book sitting behind it
It is not, @Semiclassic.
I want ot relate it to residues because in general solving for the full scattering amplitude is hard. But maybe solving for the residue about some pole isn't quite so hard.
Ablowitz and Segur: "Solitons and the Inverse Scattering Transform"
21:44
OH @Semiclassic
so that's kind of amusing :)
ok, time to actually go now
@Ali It's hard to give an inspiring answer to that sort of question anymore since most days I'm not reading or learning new things, I'm trying to prove dumb lemmas or playing with toy computations.
@Kevin: Bottom line is that you can compute a residue at infinity when there's an essential singularity, but the residue theorem only applies when you have a meromorphic 1-form, not when you have essential singularities.
The 1-form $f(z)\,dz$ does not make sense at $\infty$ with your $f(z)$, so there's no way to do what you were talking about at the very beginning.
Okay, excellent. That's what I was thinking after my simple example didn't work out and and I double-checked all the calculations. The essential singularity spoils things.
Sorry we went around robin hood's barn for an hour.
21:51
That's alright, I'm used to it. I'm forever trying to do some ridiculous thing that no mathematics person would do, and it always takes a bit to explain either because I'm failing to grasp something or because it's utterly opaque why in God's name I'd be trying to do this anyway
Anyway, is California working out for you @TedShifrin?
Yup, pretty much, thanks, @Kevin.
That's good. You picked a pretty impeccable time to relocate given the political hullabaloo. We've had signs and protests and billboards and all kinds of nonsense.
Well, we're not going down that rabbit hole ... The whole world pretty much sucks, but yes.

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