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18:01
Well, I'm done for today. Later, y'all.
Take it easy.
@JM Good night!
Try with an example. If, for istance, we have: $y=\frac{x^2-3}{x-1}$
To do what I need, we need to put: $\frac{x^2-3}{x-1} > 0$
||$x^2-3>0$
||$x-1 > 0$
(the two vertical lines are the symbol for the "false system")
Right. Now to prepare the potatoes and everything goes in the oven for 90 minutes.
@unNaturhal I’d simply chop the real line into intervals at the points where the numerator or the denominator are $0$: $-\sqrt3,1,\sqrt3$. Then I’d check the sign of each factor on each interval and combine them. I’ve not seen the term false system before.
18:09
Exactly. Putting the solutions of the "false system" on the real number line, you'd have something like this:
$-\sqrt{3}$ $1$ $\sqrt{3}$
_______|________|________|________
+++++++--------------------------++++++++
------------------------++++++++++++++++
- + - +

So, you just take the areas where there are "+" ('coz you have set up the function">" than 0)
@unNaturhal I’m working on an answer, but it may be a while before I finish.
@BrianMScott No problem :P
18:32
And into the oven we go!
@AsafKaragila Ouch!
Not us literally... the dead cow, the potatoes and the additional friends they have made in the clay pot.
@AsafKaragila Oh, okay. That's better.
But not as exciting.
@BrianMScott What's so exciting about going into an oven? Millions of Jews did that already and you don't hear them talking about it positively.
18:42
I think that I’d get a bit excited $-$ frenzied, even $-$ if someone tried to shove me into an oven, but I’ll admit that if they succeeded, the excitement would be shortlived.
It seems that people like the more complicated answers to this question.
I wouldn’t call André’s more complicated; it’s just more detailed, with a lot more help for the intuition.
However, the OP said they wanted to work it out for themselves.
So I thought a hint was more appropriate.
I thought my hint was almost too much :-)
I think that you misunderstood the OP: I think that he wanted considerable help with the induction, but not with anything more.
It would seem so.
19:14
Yikes. Forcing questions guy wants to ask me several questions in private.
You have my sympathy.
Well, he seemed to have understood my last comment to him.
That Cohen reals are Dedekind cuts as well, but in a larger model.
You can always say no.
@AsafKaragila Cute!
From your point of view, maybe!
19:28
@AsafKaragila By the way, sorry for asking Brian to translate from Asaf to English. I sometimes find you impossible to understand.
Oh, it's fine.
@AsafKaragila Isn't it nice to have a student?
It's always nice to have students.
Teaching is a really good way to learn
Indeed it is.
19:41
@Matt: sorry, I was away
here, in the chat
@Ninefingers: Were you on some bomb squad?
@AsafKaragila ?
I mean, why would he have nine fingers?
@AsafKaragila he is simply Frodo. or Gorlum
@AsafKaragila You should ask Gortaur about people with nine fingers...
19:46
A nassty hobbit bit one off, of course!
@robjohn You mean Eelya?
@AsafKaragila It wouldn't make that much sense to ask Ilya; he didn't forge magic rings :-)
@AsafKaragila I'm not a prophet
@Ilya But you're an Eel :-)
@robjohn But it was his username until some time ago.
@AsafKaragila Shhhh...
19:52
@AsafKaragila suspicious you are
@Ilya And now you went Yoda... $\underline{\large\circ\ \huge\circ}$
I was away with turned off mathjax
I will make salmon pasta, so I am near but not here
@AsafKaragila: Haha, I think you can get really creative with LaTeX emoticons
@Asaf: In ZFC, is there a cardinal $\kappa$ such that for all cardinals $\lambda < \kappa$, $\lambda^{\aleph_0} < \kappa$?
@ZhenLin Of course. $\beth_\omega$ is such.
19:57
@mk I don't know what you mean $\stackrel{\circ\ \circ}{\smile}$
Ah. For some reason I was thinking such a thing had to be an inaccessible.
@mk $\stackrel{\smallint\large\vee.\large\vee}{\ \ \huge\smile}$
@AsafKaragila where is your second ear?
Nice
@ZhenLin Well if $\kappa<\beth_\omega$ then $2^\kappa<\beth_\omega$ and in any case $\kappa^{\aleph_0}\le 2^\kappa$.
19:59
@AsafKaragila Nope, fraid not - I'm just your regular old barbarian (spoilers).
@Ilya It's not an ear. It's a hair.
For some reason, viewing latex source crashes opera here
@mk It's your fault for using Opera.
Indeed. But what is it about these singular strong limit cardinals that make them unsuitable for forming truncated universes of sets?
@AsafKaragila so where is your second hair?
20:01
@ZhenLin They don't satisfy the axiom of union and some replacement.
@Ilya You don't want to know.
@AsafKaragila: Only reason I use it is speed dial.
@AsafKaragila ah, there
I guessed one or the other, since $\beth_\omega$ could be formed by taking the union of an appropriate set... hm. I'll have to think about this a bit more. Thanks!
@AsafKaragila in any case, I assume the reference is to Logen Ninefingers
20:05
@robjohn I assumed it was some generic "your mother" figure...
@rob: Do you feel like deleting something?
@AsafKaragila like what?
@AsafKaragila It only takes 3 votes to delete?
Yes.
Sometimes, if the post has many positive votes or something it would take more.
Sometimes I feel like I should check to see if Arturo is online before I bother writing up an answer.
20:12
@anon :-)
I was going to do it but didn't bother, and he swooped in with an answer five times more dense than mine.
I think Arturo should go on holiday.
Yes, that exact same question @Matt !
You both should keep on writing the answers and then post them.
20:13
@anon And in my case also 10 times faster.
@AsafKaragila Then it looks like copying his answer.
I once wrote an answer, then he posted almost the exact same answer; then Brian came and added a third similar answer.
Then all three of us revised and added almost the same thing.
I got the +15 though :-P
I recently posted an answer about a minute after his $-$ and got the +15.
@Zhen: Can you look into the tags here? I'm not sure fits very well.
I'm gonna go for a while. See you folks later.
Hmmm. It could be.
That reminds me: I was going to give you (@Asaf) my favorite non-algebraic example of an inverse limit. Let $\mathscr{U}$ be a free filter on $\omega$. For $U\in\mathscr{U}$ let $X_U$ be a copy of $\omega+1$ with the following topology: each $n\in\omega$ is isolated, and basic open nbhds of $\omega$ are sets of the form $\{\omega\}\cup(U\setminus F)$, where $F$ is finite. $\langle\mathscr{U},\supseteq\rangle$ is a directed set.
For $U,V\in\mathscr{U}$ with $U\supseteq V$ let $\pi_{UV}:X_V\to X_U$ be the identity map; note that $\pi_{UV}$ is continuous. Let $X$ be the inverse limit of this inverse system; then $X$ is homeomorphic to $\omega+1$ with the topology in which each $n\in\omega$ is isolated, and $\mathscr{U}$ is the family of open sets containing the point $\omega$.
20:27
@Matt: received my answer?
20:41
Ok. Posted it anyway.
@anon You didn't, apparently.
@Ilya Which?
One of the parts in mine was wrong so I deleted it. Too lazy to amend.
Once you get your 10k goggles you'll be able to see deleted answers 8)
@Matt: Tips to improve the answer: explain that Q[i] is a field because inverses can be exhibited $$(a+bi)(a-bi)=a^2+b^2\implies(a+bi)^{-1}=\frac{a}{a^2+b^2}+\frac{b}{a^2+b^2}i.$$
@MattN I’d let this one go, since he’s asking for a critique of a specific argument.
@BrianMScott Ok.
@anon Thank you!
20:48
Second, Z[i/2] is not a field because the elements are of the form $$u_0+u_1\frac{i}{2}+u_1\frac{i^2}{2^2}+\cdots+u_m\frac{i^m}{2^m}=\frac{2^mu_0+2‌​^{m-1}u_1i+\cdots+2u_{m-1}i^{m-1}+u_mi^m}{2^m}.$$ so only have power-of-2 denominators, so e.g. 3 has no inverse.
You can use my TeX if you want :)
@anon I don't know how I can access the tex in here once it's been rendered but thanks : )
@Matt: Right click >> Show Source
@anon Actually, I heard him ask a different question.
What?
I'd say you can't write $\frac13$ in terms of elements of $\mathbb{Q}$ hence $\mathbb{Q}(i) \neq \mathbb{Z}[\frac12]$
But of course, your answer is better.
20:52
Oh, Arturo took out the i so its 1/2 now instead of i/2. Anyway, 1/3 is in Q so I don't see what you're saying.
Since if $\mathbb{Z}[\frac{i}{2}]$ is not a field then it obviously is not the same as $\mathbb{Q}(i)$
You say "you can't write 1/3 in terms of elements from Q." I don't follow; can't you just write 1/3 because it is an element from Q? Anyway, my understanding of the OP is that the question was "why isn't this a field like Q[i] is?"
@anon I meant the other way around: $\frac13$ is not in $\mathbb{Z}[\frac{i}{2}]$.
Thought so. Also, even though Q[i] and Q(i) turn out to be the same thing, the OP is referring to Q[i]. The latter is a field by definition, the former requires demonstration of inverses at least.
@anon Well, well, we are nitpicky, aren't we? : )
20:59
Yes. :)
: )
I think that's a good thing. : )
@Ilya A whisky. Laphroaig Quarter Cask.
I used to confuse R[x] and R(x) way back when because I read stuff involving them before I ever saw them actually defined.
@MattN Would that be pingelig?
@anon So $Q[i]$ (read "Q adjoin i") is the set of all $a + ib$ by definition. And $Q(i)$ is the field of quotients or how do I have look upon this difference?
@BrianMScott Exactly. : )
@anon Well, I had a different definition in mind. I thought that $[\cdot]$ is used when it's just a ring. And $(\cdot)$ when it's a field.
I should be doing set theory and here I am, answering questions on SE.
21:08
@Matt: R[x] refers to the finite polynomials a+bx+cx^2+... This works when R is a ring, and fields are special cases of rings so R can also be a field. With i^2=-1, all polynomials in $i$ reduce to the form $a+bi$. Now for K a field, K(x) refers to the smallest field containing K and x. We have Q[i]=Q(i) because inverses of a+bi can also be written in this form. Something like $\mathbb{Q}[\pi]$ is not a field however, even though $\mathbb{Q}(\pi)$ is.
$K(x)$ can be constructed as the field of fractions of $K[x]$ of course
When $x$ is algebraic we can speak of K(x) and K[x] interchangeable though. Since the norm defined by multiplying automorphisms of an element evaluates to elements in the base field, we can divide the product out by the element we want to invert and exhibit an inverse, same as we do for a+bi in Q[i].
@anon thanks!
21:25
In fact, R[x] is never a field..
@anon I'm getting sleepy and confused.
Oh I see.
For a moment I thought you were saying that $\mathbb{Z}[2^{\frac13}]$ was a field.
No, K has to be a field and x algebraic for K[x] to be a field.
Yes, I think I'm too tired to think.
Good night folks!
Night Matt.
21:59
I got logged out for some reason.
SE was down for maintanence according to a page I saw for like 30 seconds.
Ah, that would explain it. Thanks.
Is there a minimum rep needed to delete your own posts?
Hmm... I don't remember.
So what's the word with the most e's in your guys language? In mine it is zee-eendeneiereneter.
Eeny-weeny?
Dunno. I do know, however, that "Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo" is a complete and grammatical sentence.
Note the capitals.
22:06
Yes, I know that sentence 8-).
@JonasTeuwen a chemical Ethylenediaminetetraacetate, but the next non-chemical is degenerescence
Information from here
I know of supercalifragilisticexpialidoshus and antidisestablishmentarianism.
it is really surprising when somebody discusses here mathematical questions
nobody knows about Martin boundary?
epäjärjestelmällistyttämättömyydelläänsäkäänköhän.
@robjohn Well actually in Dutch it can be arbitrary long since compositions are written as one word 8-).
22:11
@JonasTeuwen I'm sure something similar can be said for German.
@mk What does it mean and what language?
Looks Scandinavian, to me.
Finnish, I’d bet.
finnish. It's a bit hard to translate
Yes, but Finnish or Estonian.
22:13
@BrianMScott Good bet :-)
"in its unorganizedness" plus a lot more stuff
So it’s related to epäjärjestys? (I’ve a small dictionary.)
@JonasTeuwen Estonian?
yes
But it's pretty much a joke, nobody would ever use that.
often we have a single word where in English you would have several, so you get ridiculously long words. I think German does this too.
@Jonas: do you have University internet now?
22:22
@Ilya Yes.
@Jonas could you please check if this paper is available, and also that one
@mk It does. But it’s more a difference in orthographic custom than a real difference in the way compounds are constructed: German simply runs them together in many cases when English doesn’t.
@Ilya Yes, shall I e-mail it to your tudelft.nl e-mail?
@JonasTeuwen yes, please. do you know it?
@Ilya It is in the address book :-).
22:24
On average it takes me two tries to spell the word "beautiful."
@JonasTeuwen if only you know my surname :)
@Ilya I have you on facebook, remember? :D.
@JonasTeuwen I do. I see your new photos there almost on the daily basis :)
@Jonas: both papers are available?
@Ilya Yes. Sending them now.
@anon whyisitso?
22:27
cause I mix up the order of "e a u"
doppelnebenklassenvertretersystem
@Ilya Что зто?
о Боже
з вместо э
@BrianMScott: I'll trust you on this, since I don't know much German
@Anon, ah you mean spell = write?
@mk what do you trust him on?
22:31
@Ilya Eeep! My mind was really wandering. Too much upside-down Greek.
@BrianMScott take it: Ээ
both capital and small one
З = Z, Э = E
Oh, I have them both, and in several fonts, too; I just wasn’t thinking.
You haven't practiced for a long time as I remember
A very long time. But it’s funny: I’d never have made that mistake in handwriting!
@anon I once heard that in English, if you spell the first few letters and the last few letters correctly people are still able to figure out the word. for example: beutiful
22:35
wow, the paper from 60s
I really love the way Dynkin is writing
@Skullpatrol that what makes English difference from other languages
@JM @MattN Hot Fuzz was nice.
@Ilya They say English is the most idiomatic language too.
@AsafKaragila nice, I am going to watch it tonight
@Skullpatrol Probably not true. In fact, it’s not clear that it’s even something that can be measured.
@Skullpatrol now apply your rule of first-last letters to your last sentence, especially to the word 'idiomatic'
22:39
Also, the potatoes were amazing and the beef was decent. I know how to correct it next time, though.
@AsafKaragila shower'em?
@BrianMScott number of idioms/number of words
The notion of word isn’t actually well-defined cross-linguistically. There really doesn’t seem to be any definition that works really well for all languages.
@BrianMScott I heard that English is among the most difficult languages to learn to use properly and I guessed it was partially because of the large number of idioms.
@Ilya No, I should have covered the meat with the potatoes.
@AsafKaragila you baked?
22:48
Not exactly baked. I made a clay pot roast with potatoes.
Whether a language is difficult to learn depends enormously on what language(s) you already know. It’s not clear that there is an absolute scale of difficulty. Different languages have different difficult areas for different speakers.
@BrianMScott Good point.
Sort of like if you know the mathematics behind the physics then learning the physics is a lot easier, in my opinion.
Yes. But it’s not going to help much in learning history.
Maybe sociology is a good background for that, but I'm just guessing.
Depends on the kind of history; social history, military history, diplomatic history $-$ they have much in common, but they also call on different specific background knowledge. (And that was by no means an exhaustive list.)
22:58
@Skull: Sorry I was afk. A lot of the time you don't even nd mst f th vwls n sntncs t rd thm crrctly.
@anon I agree a, e, i, o, u, and y are always around and sometimes can be taken for granted.
@Ilya Oh, was it a paper by Dynkin?
23:58
Almost... perhaps tomorrow I will break 16K.
I was working on this until David Moews produced a very nice answer.

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