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15:00
@Undo You should change the strategy of kicking/banning people, and say a kick or a ban to be accepted when more than 3 moderators agree (say).
You should serve the users, not to threaten them.
Moderators act unilaterally, that's how it works. In this case, Danu has the support of many moderators.
6
Anyway, I don't have time to debate this with you. Again, meta.stackexchange.com/contact.
@r9m I'm out. If anything, email me.
r9m
r9m
@user1618033 'kay .. see ya
15:30
Hi guys
In a principal bundle, are the point which are mapped to the identity in a local trivialization anything special?
16:18
If anybody feels comfortable with distributions I have a simple question that is causing me some worries
1
Q: Why are these distributions positive?

s.harpI am trying to understand some calculations in a paper by Sidney Coleman. He is showing that certain distributions are positive. The paper can be found here. What I am talking about is happening at the bottom of page 262. (Which is 4 pages into the document.) We are looking at distributions in 2...

16:36
why MathJax isn't active by default in the chat?
17:14
$\eta o\,\iota\partial\varepsilon\alpha$
@AndyMiles No. You can actually set that up to be any closed set you like.
@lopata "they" don't want to natively support it; hence, rob's workaround
can i assume that you're referring here to the reptilians?
@MikeMiller you may, or you can also arbitrarily and capriciously assign blame to the Underpants Gnomes.
Don't think it's likely to be them.
They learned their lesson after last time.
17:30
Being an Underpants Gnome myself, I can attest to what Mike said.
@AndyMiles Sorry, what I just said was nonsense. In any case, still no, not really. What I should have said was that you can choose this to be any section.
@KarlKronenfeld Fine, I'll take your word for it, for now. But I've an eye trained on ya...
@J.M. I'm just looking for a profit, man. No harm intended.
if instead $\{z \in C ~|~z^n = 1 $ for some $n \in \mathbb{Z^+}\}$ $n \in \mathbb{R}$ would every complex number be in this set?
no. if there is some $n$ such that $z^n = 1$, then you immediately have $|z| = 1$, so at least you need $z$ to be in the unit circle around $0$ in $\Bbb C$.
any complex number outside the unit circle around $0$ in $\Bbb C$ cannot be in the set.
A more interesting question to ask if every complex number of norm $1$ is in the set. The answer to this is still no, but harder to see. :)
17:47
Not sure I understand. I just thought that any number raised to any real number can be equal to 1. Isn't this true?
any number raised to any real number? you have some weird quantifiers there
also you said that the exponent is an integer there, not a real number.
wait that doesn't make sense
Obliv wanted to replace "positive integer" with "real number" @Balarka.
alright i don't even have to replace it with real number
I can just say include $\{0\}$ in $\mathbb{Z^+}$ and I achieve the same thing I think
17:50
Sure, tautologically $z^0 = 1$.
Then answer to your question is "trivially true"
for some reason I thought there was some other power besides 0 that could achieve $z^n = 1$ but $0$ is the only number right?
@MikeMiller I'm imagining a principal bundle to be more about the right action of the group than about the local trivialization. In some way, the local trivialization could be $M\times S$ with $S$ the underlying set of the group $G$. The fact that is important is that there's a right action of the group on $S$, and we don't really care about $S$ itself.
Does that make sense in a heuristic sense?
Yes, @AndyMiles, that's right. The local trivialization is completely unimportant, we just need to know it exists so that we haven't assembled the fibers in some wacky way.
Well, I mean, it's not completely unimportant, since we use it sometimes. But it's not the point of the idea.
@MikeMiller Makes sense, thank you!!
$0$ is the only possible number $n$ such that $z^n = 1$ for all complex numbers $z$? Yes - this is an easy fact.
17:54
@AndyMiles You should not actually think that there's a copy of $G$ above each point, but rather a $G$-torsor; like we're saying, we don't have a specified basepoint/identity element.
I guess I was wondering, then, if there was an $n \in \mathbb{R}$ for every $z \in \mathbb{C}$ that was not $n = 0$ that satisfies $z^n = 1$. If there was such an $n$, then all of $z \in \mathbb{C}$ would be in this set? @balarka
I'm having serious trouble parsing that question, and I have to go; so probably ask someone else who's willing to help you out.
@MikeMiller I think of it more as a gauge group (because I don't know any algebraic geometry). The gauge is acting at each point, but there's no copy of the group at each point.
That's what a torsor is to me. I think the algebrwic geometers use that name for a more general concept.
You a physicist?
no problem it was just something I thought about in an exercise. thanks for your time regardless @balarka
18:06
3000 to fix my german car
DOLLARS
those bastards
@MikeMiller Something in between. I did a BSc in mathematics, but my ultimate interests are QFTs and their applications in mathematics.
@MikeMiller Never heard of it, and googling it I landed on its meaning in algebraic geometry. But now I've found the other page.
Thank you for helping me.
@AndyMiles When one says they're interested in QFT in math it can mean some very different things, I think :) The category theorists are really into it.
I ask because I do what some people call mathematical gauge theory, and it's of a very different flavor.
18:25
@MikeMiller Oh, cool. Well I left academia after the BSc, so don't expect a very specific interest like in a PhD. Besides my wish to have some understanding of string theory (who doesn't wish that..), I was totally blown when I learned that Witten and colleagues used TQFT to prove important mathematical stuff like topological invariants.
Sure, just chatting. Witten is crazy. I do something sort of of that flavor.
What specifically?
Instanton Floer homology. It's a way of assigning a graded abelian group (like singular homology) to a 3-manifold, that's functorial under cobordism; you do it by counting what we call instantons, but a physicist probably calls "Solutions to the ASD equation". I learned a while back that 'instanton' just means 'solution to the equations of motion'
so telling a physicist I do instantons, which I say to mathematicians at the right flavor of conference, would probably sound like saying "I do equations"
what's the multiplicative inverse of complex numbers? Are the rationals in complex numbers?
@Obliv $1/(x+iy) = \frac{x-iy}{x^2+y^2}$. Note that this only makes sense if $x+iy$ is not zero.
@Andy What do you do now?
18:37
thank you.
18:48
@MikeMiller Sounds very interesting. I have heard about Floer homology. The professor of a friend of mine was Eduard Zehnder, Floer's PhD advisor.
Very cool.
Well afaik an instanton is based on a solution to the classical equations of motion, but it's used for some tunneling amplitude between different vacuum states.
But that might be the QFT instanton. What's an instanton in Floer homology?
nvm, got it
@AndyMiles It's probably a special case of the sort of instanton you mean. When I say 'instanton', I mean a solution to the ASD equation on a 4-manifold. The equation takes as input a connection on a principal bundle, and outputs $F_A^+$, the self-dual part of its curvature 2-form.
An instanton is a connection with $F_A^+ = 0$. We then consider them modulo gauge.
Hello @Mike.
18:58
Hi, my liege.
Just dropping by to let you know that your recent answer has stimulated me to get going again on Bredon's Topology and Geometry to learn homology theory :).
Which one was that?
Oh, right. Great!
About collapsing submanifolds.
Right now I am in bed. Maybe it would be good to learn something today.
Recently I read up on the philosophy behind quantum mechanics. It's pretty interesting.
But maybe you're looking for something lighter, if you're still in bed?
:)
19:04
I'm a little sick is all.
:(
Flu? Pollen? Something you ate?
Cold. Another MSE user gave it to me.
Independently, I'm also sunburned.
An unlikely combination.
Do you know a good supplementary work to Bredon?
I feel like I should do more exercises, and his text doesn't have too many.
I remembered it having a lot. But Hatcher is incredible, especially his exercises.
Hello all
19:13
Of course. I guess I could've known.
Thanks nonetheless.
You hate Hatcher?
Not at all. It was more a remark to myself that I ought to have considered Hatcher.
I'll get started with it. If I don't forget, I'll let you know how it's going.
:)
I hope that after processing Hatcher and Bredon, I finally can have another go at Switzer's text. It has been on my shelves for years.
Has anyone read Martin Isaac's book on algebra? What do you think about it?
19:44
can someone explain how a group table is calculated for a finite group? Let $L = \{1,2,3\}$ and the group $G = \{L,+\}$ what would the group table be?
well it seems like $G$ doesn't have an identity
@Obliv It's a table where row $i$ column $j$ has $a_i \circ a_j$ in it.
the identity is 0?
oh wait
let $L = \{0,1,2,3\}$ there
um well what about your inverses?
@idonutunderstand I presume it's modular arithmetic.
19:47
ooh ok
it would be a 4x4 matrix then?
@Obliv Like in this question.
for a very simple group, let $L = \{0,1\}$ the matrix for the group under multiplication would be $\begin{bmatrix} 0 & 0 \\ 0 & 1 \end{bmatrix}$
is this correct
Except it isn't a group, yes.
19:54
@Lord_Farin do you know about intuitionistic logic?
0,1 isn't a group under multiplication?
@idonutunderstand Yes.
Why?
@Obliv what is the inverse of 0?
@Obliv Multiplication with $0$ is not injective. Consider $\{1,2\}$ modulo $3$ instead.
okay but the process is correct?
19:55
Indeed.
thanks
@Lord_Farin I'm trying to get my head around it and not really succeeding.
@idonutunderstand Do you know semantics for it?
I don't even know what "semantics" means :P
should i wikipedia that?
19:59
Do you know classical (first-order) model theory?
Or just PropLog?
to be a symmetric matrix, does there only have to be 1 line of symmetry drawn across the matrix in any direction? for ex: is $\begin{bmatrix} a & b \\ a & b \end{bmatrix}$ symmetric?
@Obliv no
symmetric matrix means symmetric across the diagonal
so then $\begin{bmatrix} a & b \\ b & a \end{bmatrix}$ is symmetric?
@idonut?
20:05
@Lord_Farin all i know is the elementary truth tables we learned in freshman discrete math
that's pretty much the extent of the logic i know. i don't know ProLog or model theory
@idonutunderstand Hm. Do you know how to represent a truth table as a function of logical expressions ("valuation")?
you mean like computing a truth table of for example (A && B) || C?
Excuse my notation for the logical connectives; I don't know the TeX
Did you ever write that as $v(A\land B)\lor C)$?
And considered the rules $v$ adheres to?
20:12
nope can't say i have
why don't the parenthesis match?
Ok, to get an idea of what this is about check here.
Because I suck :).
whats the generic group table for this group: let $L = \{a,b,c\}$ and $G = \{L,\star\}$ is it $\begin{bmatrix} aa & ab & ac \\ ba & bb & bc \\ ca & cb & cc \end{bmatrix}$?
@Obliv Yes.
ok good its easy to show the matrix must be symmetric if it is abelian then
20:18
man how am I supposed to think of a proof like this crazyproject.wordpress.com/2010/01/04/…
I don't even know what it's saying..
I just want to show by example for a generic group table that the elements opposite to each other by a diagonal have to be equal :(
what is an indexing map?
@Obliv It's exactly saying what you're saying. But then it does so formally.
An indexing map is just a map $G \to \{1,\ldots n\}$ fixing an ordering of the elements of $G$.
basically giving it elements
Yes. You could've also said, without loss of formality:
"Let $g_1\ldots g_n$ be the elements of $G$."
@idonut Is it somewhat making sense to you?
@Lord_Farin it's not making any sense whatsoever
20:24
haha
Basically a $v$ represents a line in a truth table.
So it chooses for each letter a $T$ or an $F$, and from there tells you how to compute with the connectives.
That's all that linked page says. (It's not intuitionism yet.)
ok that makes some sense
Such a $v$ is called a semantics for classical logic.
i think maybe there were too many unfamiliar terms on that page
It attaches meaning (true or false) to the formal symbolism.
Similarly, intuitionism is a semantics for the same formulas.
20:29
hmm...
The big difference is that they disagree on what is true.
Basically, intuitionism deprecates $\neg\neg A \equiv A$ and $\neg A \lor A$.
ah, i recognize the law of the excluded middle there at the end
Because the $v$s considered before cannot express this, they cannot be a suitable semantics for intuitionism.
@idonutunderstand Indeed.
We therefore need to turn to other techniques of assigning meaning to our familiar formulas in order to grasp the intuitionistic principles of reasoning.
But if you haven't ever considered things like model theory for first-order logic, it will be quite hard to grasp these different semantics.
You might consider reading this (PDF); the semantics is in chapter 3 (Kripke semantics). I find it one of the best to get to grips with intuitionism. It might help you, or it may go way over your head.
In the latter case, I'd recommend you start with an undergraduate book on mathematical logic.
@Lord_Farin okay I will definitely do that
There's plenty of recommendations for such books on MSE, or you can always come to chat and ask around.
Plenty of people will know good references.
20:38
Are you saying that intuitionistic logic assigns false to $\neg\neg A \equiv A$?
No, it's a contingent statement.
So it depends on what $A$ is in your semantics.
But in general, the statement "$\neg \neg A \equiv A$ for all $A$" is false for intuitionistic logic.
However, I guess this all is quite a lot to process. I used to suck at it; it took me considerable time (months) to get to grips with it.
So don't feel bad :).
So I take it you're a maths major?
@idonut?
21:22
hello @Lord_Farin i'm happy to see you
i am good
another proven conjecture
21:44
@robjohn look at this integral from MO - mathoverflow.net/questions/200880/…
Pretty ugly solutions (to be fair though) - it actually can be finalized elegantly in the spirit of the art.
@Lord_Farin yep :)
i've got to take off, talk to you later and thanks
 
1 hour later…
22:46
@idonutunderstand You're welcome.
:)
22:57
What is a generating set of $\mathbb{Z}$ ?
23:09
0
Q: Alaoglu & Krein-Milman to show bounded convex weak-$*$ closed subset has extreme point

Jessy CatLet $X$ be a normed linear space and $K$ a bounded convex weak-$*$ closed subset of $X^{*}$. I need to show that $K$ possesses an extreme point; however, I am not entirely sure how to do this. I suppose I could use Alaoglu's Theorem (Let $X$ be a normed linear spsace. Then the closed unit ball ...

23:26
So, if I have two topological spaces $A$ and $B$, how do I know if I can build a covering map $A\rightarrow B$ or $B \rightarrow A$?
@MaryStar Is $\{+1,-1\}$ good enough? With the addition as group operation
23:49
Only that is a generating set? @Sebgr
@MaryStar I think there is an infinity of possible generating sets.
Mary: No. A generating set $S\subseteq G$ is any set such that every element of $G$ is a finite product of elements in $S$.
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