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20:00
Munkres, Willard, Kelley, Jänich
@Danu Are those in the order in which you'd recommend them first?
I think that Munkres is widely used in the US
@Axoren No
I haven't really used any of them.
@TobiasKildetoft The problem is that, I don't think passing through a nonsingular curve would lead to anything meaningful. It's endowed with subspace topology, so it doesn't matter if you consider the perturbation a path which intersects with the subspace of nonsingular curves, say.
The paperback version of Munkres is sub-$20. I might just buy it right now.
@FrankScience Yeah, it was more of an intuitive picture than anything proper
20:02
@Axoren Fair enough.
Of course Bourbaki also has a book ;)
Bourbaki isn't pedagogical.
I borrowed one, then returned immediately.
@FrankScience It wasn't written by an expert of the field? I'm not too clear on your use of pedagogical.
@Axoren Bourbaki is a collection of French mathematicians
who decided to write very rigorous, very general textbooks
Not suitable for a first book in a field
(or so I've heard... I've never even dared try)
General and rigorous, oh my. So it doesn't read off like a student's textbook, then.
That's what he means?
@TobiasKildetoft My guess is that, the set with at least two singular points, or a degenerate singular point, is the Zariski closure of the set with at least two singular points.
@Danu I don't think it's a textbook.
20:07
@Axoren Perhaps. The Bourbaki books have a huge reputation (see e.g. here)
@FrankScience Of course it is---what do you mean?
@FrankScience Well, it is a book and it has text :)
Suppose $L_d$ is the linear system of curves of degree $d$. I think we can start with the canonical projection $((\mathbb P^1\times\mathbb P^1)\setminus\Delta)\times L_d\to L_d$, and restrict to a subvariety of $(p,q,C)$ where $C$ is singular at $p$ and $q$.
@Axoren Yes. For example, Bourbaki starts with topological vectors spaces over a complete valued division ring.
@FrankScience I don't see an issue with that.
Then you can have a try to read.
Enjoy reading.
Topologie Générale, that tome.
Expensive :(
Is it only in French?
20:15
If you are in a university, try springerlink.
no
There is an English version
I'll have to wait until later to do that. I don't think my university gets books, however.
I was eyeing a book on Space-filling Curves and it wasn't available.
@TobiasKildetoft Now, could you perhaps try to give me a very simplistic explanation of why I should care about sheaves?
Is it the topological space associated to them that's important?
@Axoren An entire book on pathologies?
@Danu sheaves don't have a topological space associated to them. They are associated to a topological space
@TobiasKildetoft Eh.. Also the other way around in my book.
20:18
Maybe he means the étalé space.
@Danu Part of the data of a sheaf is a topological space yes, but we do not call that space associated to the sheaf, at least that I have seen
From the disjoint union of all $\mathscr F_x$ where the latter denotes the stalk at $x$ there is a projection to $X$
@Danu Yeah. I was hoping to learn the varieties of ways to construct space-filling curves and if there was some way to optimize the computation of them. I'm finding a lot of efficient ways to compute very specific curves that don't suit my needs, and everything else I find is proof-of-existence.
This thing is literally called "the topological space associated to a presheaf" in my book (presheaf, sorry!).
I know the curve I want to use exists and its properties, but I don't know how to compute it.
20:19
1 min ago, by Frank Science
Maybe he means the étalé space.
When you think about it carefully, you realize how useless of a statement that is for practical application.
Which is what was called a sheaf in my time.
That's the etale space?
@Danu Ahh, that is indeed the etale space (can't be bothered with those marks on e's)
Man, cool! I'm learning something involving etale!
Only ~1.75 years ago I first learned what a topology is :D
20:20
@Danu Which is certainly important, though I would not call it the motivation behind sheaves
Grothendieck, here I come ;)
@TobiasKildetoft Okay. It's the only thing used to actually prove anything in the section that introduces sheaves in my book, that's why I'm asking.
the motivation behind sheaves is to axiomatize what sort of "functions" on a topological space behave in a nice enough way. And then realizing that these need not really be functions at all
@FrankScience Btw there should only be a mark on the first e, I think
@TobiasKildetoft Nice enough way---you mean that they obey these "localization principles"?
@Danu Yeah, they behave nicely enough that we care about them (and can expect to be able to actually understand them by studying them locally)
@Danu No, it should be the étalé space (l'espace étalé). However, étale topology.
20:23
@FrankScience Eh... That is kinda icky---do you speak French?
@Danu No, but know about very little French.
(I do, and although it should be espace étalé, étale space is still a lot better IMO)
Because that construction (participium perfect) in French only occurs if you put the verb after the noun
That's an adjective, not a verb, I guess.
But I guess you've got convention on your side, so I'll shut up :)
There are probably no clear rules for these translated terms
> Despite its similarity to "étalé", the word étale [etal] has a different meaning both in French and in mathematics. In particular, it is possible to turn E into a scheme and Ï€ into a morphism of schemes in such a way that Ï€ retains the same universal property, but Ï€ is not in general an étale morphism because it is not quasi-finite. It is, however, formally étale.
20:31
@FrankScience Exactly, I saw that and hence noted that you have convention on your side ;)
Ahhh, that's very interesting
Thanks for setting me straight!
And I heard that Godement's book is a good book on sheaf theory.
My teacher suggested Serre's FAC, which I haven't read yet.
GGG
GGG
If the order of the element $g$ of a group is $14$, how do I find the order of say $g^6$?
20:47
@DanielFischer we say that $(f_n)$ has a Cauchy subsequence say $(f_{\varphi(n)})$ iff $\forall \varepsilon>0, \exists \varphi(n)_0>0, \forall p,q>\varphi(n)_0, d(f_{\varphi(p)},f_{\varphi(q)})<\varepsilon$?
@GGG So you want to find the smallest $k$ such that $6k$ is a multiple of $14$.
@Vrouvrou No, having a Cauchy subsequence is a stronger condition. But if this weaker condition is not satisfied, then the sequence a fortiori has no Cauchy subsequence.
@DanielFischer but i still don't understand why $d(f_p,f_q)=\sqrt{\pi}$ means that there is no Cauchy subsequence
@Vrouvrou Suppose it had a Cauchy subsequence, call it $g_k = f_{n_k}$. Think about what that means for the distances $d(f_{n_k}, f_{n_m})$.
GGG
GGG
@TobiasKildetoft I get it. So if I want to find the order of $g^i$ for say $2 \le i \le 13$ I do that for each of them or is there a more systematic approach I could use?
20:55
@GGG Well, you should be able to find such a $k$ systematically
@DanielFischer $=\sqrt{\pi}$ also no ?
@FrankScience Okay.
Thanks for the info
@Vrouvrou Does that means (@DanielFischer)$\ ^2 = \pi$?
hhhhhhh no i nean $d(f_{n_k}, f_{n_m})=\sqrt{\pi}$
@DanielFischer
@Axoren
It was a joke. :P
Albeit a bad one.
21:11
@DanielFischer are you there ?
@Vrouvrou If $(f_{n_k})$ were a Cauchy subsequence of $(f_n)$, what would that imply about $d(f_{n_k}, f_{n_m})$? Is what it would imply compatible with the fact that $d(f_n,f_m) = \sqrt{\pi}$ for all $n \neq m$?
GGG
GGG
@TobiasKildetoft Cool, thanks. I was only wondering whether I could translate the problem in terms of arithmetic modulo $14$ or something.
i dont understand @DanielFischer
What don't you understand?
i can set $n_k=p$ and $n_m=q$ then the result is the same
i don't understand your question @DanielFischer
GGG
GGG
21:23
Euclidean algorithm using matrices! Why didn't anyone tell me about this coolness before!?
@Vrouvrou The elements of a Cauchy sequence get arbitrarily close to each other the further you go in the sequence, by definition.
@Vrouvrou Have you ever seen a proof by contradiction?
That's what's going on. To prove that the sequence has no Cauchy subsequence, we suppose that it had one, and derive a contradiction.
if it is true that $d(f_{n_k},f_{n_m})=\sqrt{\pi}$ then this is the contradiction @DanielFischer
user174558
21:27
I am deleting my account, goodbye.
3
@DanielFischer if a sequence has no Cauchy subsequence then the sequence is not a cauchy sequence right ?
Trivially so. Every subsequence of a Cauchy sequence is a Cauchy sequence.
so to prove that $(f_n)$ has no adherent values we prove that $(f_n)$ has no a Cauchy subsequence , we suppose that $(f_n)$ has a Cauchy subsequence $(f_{n_k})$ it means that $\forall \varepsilon>0, \exits k_0>0, \forall p,q>k_0, d(f_{n_p},f_{n_q})<\varepsilon$ but we have that $d(f_{n_p},f_{n_q})=\sqrt{\pi}$ then contradiction so $(f_n)$ has no adherent value
@DanielFischer
it is correct ?
Hey guys, "pleasedeleteme" was Jasper, apparently.
Yeah, he goes inactive every so often
21:37
But, account deletion?
I think it's been a while since he actually deleted his account
At least a year, maybe two.
Well that account was 4 months.
hmm I must have missed the last round then :P
yeah that would have been about the time I was wrapped up in sc2
Or he just hibernates much longer than he doesn't.
It could be either.
I've disappeared for about as long, before.
21:55
@DanielFischer please are you there
is it correct?
22:27
We are over $\mathbb{F}_2$ and we have $x,y$ the number of non-zero componenents of which is a multiple of 4. Always if we add x to y, the result will have a multiple of 4 non-zero componenets, right? @DanielFischer
@Evinda Not if the dimension of the space is larger than four.
$$(1,1,1,1,0) + (0,1,1,1,1) = (1,0,0,0,1)$$ over $\mathbb{F}_2$.
@DanielFischer We have that the length of x and y is $n$ and the dimension of the space is $k=\frac{n}{2}$.
Does this help? @DanielFischer
22:46
@Evinda Not at all. I can't decipher the situation. You know the situation you're talking about, but you have only given pieces of that information.
It's from coding theory... We have self-dual binary [n,k,d] code and we want to show that $\{ \{ c \in C: ||c|| \equiv 0 \mod 4\}$ is a linear subspace of $C$. @DanielFischer
Okay. Now find somebody who knows what a self-dual binary [n,k,d] code is.
Or if it's simple enough, explain it.
The length of all the words of the code is n, the words that span the code are contained at the generator matrix, the dimension of which is k and d is the minimum weight of a word (weight: number of non-zero components of a word). @DanielFischer
Geia @NikolaosSkout
@DanielFischer A dual code $C^{\perp}$ of a code $C$ contains the words x for which $\langle x,y \rangle=0$ for all $y \in C$.
So for a self-dual code it holds that $\langle x, x \rangle=0$ for all $x \in C$.
23:06
@Evinda Sorry, not simple enough. What is a code?
@DanielFischer The code C is a linear subspace of $\mathbb{F}_q^n$ with dimension k.
@Danu: Maybe it's worth noting the following. While the "constant presheaf" makes perfect sense (just $F(U) = A$ for all $U$), it's not a sheaf: if there is a disconnection $A \cup B$ of the space $X$, the gluing axiom says that $F(X) = F(A) \oplus F(B)$, so the restriction map $F(X) \to F(A)$ is not an isomorphism.
It's not a sheaf on a disconnected space, that is.
On a connected space, "locally constant functions" are just constant functions, and the constant presheaf is a sheaf.
OK, so how do you sheafify a presheaf? You pass to the etale space (in this case, the space $X \times A$, where $A$ has the discrete topology) and take sections of this bundle. Then $F(U)$ isn't the set of constant functions to $A$ - it's locally constant functions.
@MikeM: No, that's still not right. You can take disconnected open subsets. It's not a sheaf, even if the space is connected.
I don't know what you're claiming is not right.
@TedShifrin: Fair point, so it's not a sheaf on any space with reasonably nice T-whatever properties with more than one point.
Right ... whatever the right T is.
23:13
Thanks for the clarification.
Sorry for butting in.
Nope, I was done.
I have a brief respite from tutoring for now. Probably not long enough to learn much new.
It's not a sheaf whenever $A$ has more than one element, and $X$ has two disjoint open subsets, more precisely.
(this is also in my book)
Sure. So I told you nothing new. If that wasn't bothering you, I dunno what's unintuitive about locally constant sheaves :)
@MikeMiller I don't know anymore :P
23:24
I should say "Sheaves of locally constant functions", which is different from a locally constant sheaf. But nevermind me.
There's also skyskraper sheaves. Sheaves of sections of any vector bundle. &cet.
So, any "super-easy" way to see that I should care about sheaves?
So far, they're only making terminology more complicated and adding nothing new
Sheaf cohomology.
You might want to say "That's not super-easy!" But that's why you actually care about sheaves.
^^
That is definitely what I might want to say, and also what it's mainly used for in the book I'm reading.
It's just, even if you only care about more obvious stuff, like "How many vector bundles are there?" or "What's the cohomology of my space?", the way you talk about this is sheaf cohomology, and makes some things much easier to say.
How many vector bundles?
23:31
Yeah, sure.
I want to say that there are infinitely many :P
On a given space.
OK, fine, line bundles.
Hmkay. No idea how to even approach that question, or why I'd want to know
Who cares about anything, maaaan
So very soon you'll understand why $H^1(Y;\Bbb R^\times)$ (and here the sheaf is continuous functions to $\Bbb R^\times$ - not locally constant or anything like that) classifies real line bundles. There's an exact sequence of sheaves $0 \to \Bbb Z/2 \to \Bbb R^\times \to \Bbb R \to 0$ (the third map is exponentiation)
No, really though. I care about things, generally. But why do I want to know how many vector bundles a space allows?
@MikeMiller That sounds super awesome
23:33
Do you care about line bundles?
Then it stands to reason you'd want to know what all of them are.
Yeah, probably care about those
They are so confusing though :P
This gives you an exact sheaf cohomology sequence $H^0(X;\Bbb R) \to H^1(X;\Bbb Z/2) \to H^1(X;\Bbb R^\times) \to H^1(X;\Bbb R)$. $\Bbb R$ is a "fine sheaf", henece $H^(X;\Bbb R) = 0$, and it's also easy to see that the first map is zero. Hence $H^1(X;\Bbb Z/2) \to H^1(X;\Bbb R^\times)$ is an isomorphism, and real line bundles are classified by $H^1(X;\Bbb Z/2)$.
For $X = S^1$ that means there's two of 'em, and you can write down two different ones: the trivial bundle and the Mobius bundle. So that's all the line bundles on the circle.
Really?
Up to isomorphism, yes.
That sounds ridiculous :D
In a good way!
23:36
So, you could probably write all of this down without ever saying the word sheaf or sheaf cohomology. But it gives you a language to make such arguments systematic.
It's cool to see that you get isomorphisms from exact sequences in this way.
(very trivial step, I realize)
You'll also see complex line bundles are classified by their first Chern class $c_1 \in H^2(X;\Bbb Z)$.
I know Chern classes already, but nobody mentioned classifying vector bundles with them yet
How do you know Chern classes? Via curvature?
Yeah, de Rham cohomology in my diffgeo courses
23:39
That gives you a Chern class in $H^2(X;i\Bbb R)$ which carries less data than the one above (it forgets about torsion in $H^2(X;\Bbb Z)$)
Chern-Weil homomorphism
Somethingsomething
Ah, okay.
the real $c_1$ is the obstruction to a complex line bundle carrying a flat connection; the integral $c_1$ is the obstruction to being trivial
there are nontrivial complex line bundles that carry flat connections
I have a boolean algebra expression that I have to simplify. I also have the answer from a logical calculator. However I can't seem to get from the problem to the simplified answer using only standard boolean rules (I can't use sum-of-product reduction). Anyone interesting in helping?
@MikeMiller I see.
So the one I know doesn't give all the topological info
23:41
Cry everytiem
23:57
I added SE to my webpage.
if i have a triangle is it necessary to say "A triangle in the Euclidean plane" or can i just say "A triangle"
There's a weird underscore next to my flair or whatever it's called. It's annoying me.
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