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02:00 - 13:0015:00 - 00:00

15:25
I've got a question.
What does it mean to strengthen something?
Like, strengthen a post-condition.
Or strengthen some logical statement like: y = f(y) and y <= X
15:39
@MickLH thanks, I think I will just go with "logarithmically" then. :)
morning
16:06
Hello
Can we tag some stackexchange user to the question?
@BalarkaSen Let's study spectral sequences
@iwriteonbananas Sorry to bother. Do you have any idea about Hochschild cohomology
@Mambo Sorry I'm not familiar with that
Mike probably knows. He knows everything.
I guess he doesn't like to be pinged randomly
@iwriteonbananas I'm in.
:P
16:18
@BalarkaSen Cool, I just read the introduction to chapter 5. Makes ya wanna learn that stuff.
Are you going to learn it?
And I will force you to join me
:P
Nah, algebraic topology isn't my thing. I think in about a year I will resurface as a geometric measure theory enthusiast.
16:20
loool
You'll have to learn measure theory first
I'll have to learn analysis first, and I am onto it.
@iwriteonbananas Can we specifically invite someone to answer a question?
@BalarkaSen May I ask what inspired you towards geometric measure theory?
@BalarkaSen Nice
@Mambo Well sure, just invite them
@iwriteonbananas Here's a little something. If $f : \Bbb R^n \to \Bbb R^n$ is a $C^1$ map such that $Df(a)$ is invertible, then $f$ has a local inverse near $a$, correct?
16:24
Inverse function theorem
Here's a global version of the theorem: $f : \Bbb R^n \to \Bbb R^n$ be $C^1$ and $Df(x)$ invertible at all $x \in \Bbb R^n$. If moreover for all sequences $\{x_k\}$, $\lim_{\|x_k\| \to \infty} f(\|x_k\|) = \infty$, $f$ has a global inverse.
You wrote $f(\|x_k\|)$. Was that a typo?
Yes, I meant $\|f(x_k)\|$.
Sorry.
Cool, ok
Can you prove it?
Yes. The said condition implies $f$ is a proper map.
16:29
There is a bit more general version too.
Where does the limit condition come into play?
As $Df$ is everywhere invertible, $f$ is a local diffeomorphism.
Proper local diffeomorphisms are covering maps. But $\Bbb R^n$ is simply connected, so $f$ has to be injective.
16:32
Is that limit condition equivalent to saying that $(Df(x))^{-1}$ is bounded for every $x \in \Bbb R^n$?
$Df(x)$ is a linear isomorphism of $\Bbb R^n$
Yes
The limit condition doesn't have anything to do with $Df(x)$.
@BalarkaSen As far as you can tell.
Sorry, I am not sure what you mean. The limit condition means $f$ is continuous at $\infty$. That has nothing to do with $Df(x)$, right?
16:38
Consider $f(x) = (e^x_1 sin x_2, e^x_1 cos x_2) x = (x_1,x_2)$.
What happens to this function at infinity?
@BalarkaSen: As far as you can tell. If you want to claim his condition and yours are unrelated, you need to prove it.
@BalarkaSen I am checking that
Aka, construct an example where yours is satisfied but his isn't.
This is not terribly difficult.
OK, you're right, I should have added an "I think". But I believe there are single variable examples. Just a moment.
What about $f(x) = x^2/2$?
$f'(x) = x$, and $f'(x)^{-1} = 1/x$. This is unbounded near $0$.
This does not have global inverse too
16:44
That's because $f'$ is degenerate at $0$.
Give me an example where your hypothesis hold and function has global inverse, but inverse derivative at some point is unbounded
Impossible job. If $Df$ is nondegenerate everywhere, then $(Df)^{-1}$ is also defined everywhere.
Also, $Df$ is continuous.
16:49
How can a function be defined everywhere in $\Bbb R^n$, continuous, and yet be unbounded at some point?
Obviously what was meant is that it's globally unbounded.
Oh.
But he said "at some point".
Mistakes are made.
Basically the limit condition tells that on every unbounded set, function is unbounded. Right?
16:55
What happens to the limit of the function I mentioned above at infinity?
@Mambo Um. I don't know one off the top of my head.
Your statement isn't correct. The above function is a counter
(if you meant globally unbounded, that is)
@Mambo Which statement?
Statement about the global inverse!
Where did you study that from?
@Mambo Well, this cannot be a counterexample. $Df(x) = [e^{x_1} \sin(x_2), -e^{x_1} \sin(x_2)]$, which vanishes at $x_2 = 2\pi$, and $x_1 =$ whatever.
17:05
That is not the derivative
It is a $2 \times 2$ matrix
$f'(x)$ is indeed invertible for each $x \in \Bbb R^2$
How do you define a derivative of a function $f: \Bbb R^n \to \Bbb R^n$?
I am sorry, I misread the function.
Okay. Is it a counterexample?
So the function is $f(x_1, x_2) = [e^{x_1} \sin(x_2), e^{x_1}\cos(x_2)]$, right?
yes
@BalarkaSen May I ask what do you do actually?
$Df(x_1, x_2) = [e^{x_1} \sin(x_2), -e^{x_1}\sin(x_2); e^{x_1}\cos(x_2), -e^{x_1}\sin(x_2)]$. Take $x_2 = 2\pi$. $Df$ is degenerate.
17:12
Clever choice. It doesn't work, but is still very clever.
Your dweivative is wrong.
Yes your derivative is wrong
$Df(x_1, x_2) = [e^{x_1} \sin(x_2) & e^{x_1}\cos(x_2) \\ e^{x_1}\cos(x_2) & -e^{x_1}\sin(x_2)]$
My second row is wrong. Sorry, I am dong this without pen and paper, in my defense!
But the first row still vanishes, no?
No $det(Df(x)) = -e^{2x_1} \neq 0 \forall x \in \Bbb R^2$
This implies $Df(x)$ is invertible for each $x \in \Bbb R^2$
Yeah, whoops. Oh well.
And this function is neither one-one nor onto
hhh
hhh
17:19
Can someone explain finite fields? And this:
@BalarkaSen Where did you study that statement from?
hhh
hhh
Why is the order of finite field always a prime or a power of prime?
Probably you are missing something
@Mambo But it doesn't satisfy the second condition. Take the sequence $\{x_k\}$ where $x_k = [0, k]$. $\|f(x_k)\| = e^0 = 1$. Yet $\|x_k\| = k \to \infty$.
Oh yes!
17:23
Phew. Guess that saves my pride.
:P
Sorry for those stupid derivatives.
Wait a minute
I am sure the theorem I stated is true, by the way. This is called the Hadamard's global inverse function theorem.
I also wrote down a proof.
Hi everyone
Can anyone explain the most fundamental reason why perpendicular lines have an angle of 90 degrees?
(other than, otherwise squares or rectangles wouldn't exist, i guess)
@Balarka: Note that this is a covering map - on a slightly smaller codomain.
there is a (hopefully sensible) follow up .. ;)
17:31
You have not produced a map whose derivative is uniformly bounded but is not proper.
Yep, sorry, give me a moment.
Well, $f(x) = \sin(x)$. Derivative is uniformly bounded above and below by $1$ and $-1$ respectively, but clearly $f$ is not proper, because it is also bounded.
Derivative is not invertible
at every point
But @MikeMiller didn't include that condition :S
Can someone state the question again for me? I am confused by what is a condition and what isn't.
Where are you confused
What is the question?
17:47
Why not use one of the diffeomorphisms from $\mathbb R$ to $(0,1)$ like tanh
I don't understand the question, so it's impossible for me to give a counterexample.
Please restate the question.
Is the limit you described equivalent to saying that inverse derivative at every point is uniformly bounded?
@BalarkaSen: Find a proper diffeomorphism $\Bbb R \to \Bbb R$ whose derivative is not uniformly bounded.
Ah, OK, that's clearer.
(AKA: Show your condition does not imply Mambo's, that the derivative is uniformly bounded.) You have already seen an example that shows that smooth maps with uniformly bounded invertible differentials still need not be proper.
17:53
@BalarkaSen An example where the function is $C^1$ map and derivative is invertible at every point, and the inverse of derivative at every point is uniformly bounded, still the function does not have global inverse
This is my question.
Then, question: Suppose the differential is everywhere invertible and uniformly bounded away from 0 and infty; that is, $c < \|Df\| < C$ everywhere, $0 < c < C < \infty$.
Now is the map proper?
18:13
@BalarkaSen Consider the function $f(x,y) = (e^x, e^y)$
This satisfies all your conditions
Oh consider the function $f(x) = e^x$
@Mambo (Sorry, I was away) What are you referring to?
This function has invertible derivative at every point
Also, $f(x) = e^x$ doesn't satisfy the limit condition. If $x_k = -k$, $\|f(x_k)\| \to 0$.
Oh Exactly!
I just gave you a name of the theorem: Hadamard's global inverse function theorem. I am not sure why you're still trying to find a counterexample.
18:21
I am trying to find an example where the function is $C^1$ map and derivative is invertible at every point, and the inverse of derivative at every point is uniformly bounded, still the function does not have global inverse
I guess even in this case function will have global inverse.
Ah, alright. But $1/e^x$ is not uniformly bounded.
Haan !
@Balarka: There were two further problems for you up above. Find an example of a diffeomorphism whose derivative is unbounded; and investigate what happens when you can uniformly bound the derivative away from 0 and infty.
Yeah, I tried to find an example for the first but my brain is pretty fried. I think I can do the second easily. Give me a moment.
What does "do the second" mean?
What do you think happens?
18:26
I think the map is proper. But I have to think a bit seriously.
@MikeMiller which example are you referring to when you said : smooth maps with uniformly bounded invertible differentials still need not be proper.
@BalarkaSen Which example did Mike refer to when he said smooth maps with uniformly bounded invertible differentials still need not be proper.
 
1 hour later…
19:33
@DanielFischer
Interesting algebraic one for ya: math.stackexchange.com/questions/1664549/…
What is the ideal: $I = \{ f: f(J) \ni 0\}$ given $J \subset R$ and $I \subset R[X]$.
anyone?
@MikeMiller Completely silly. $f : \Bbb R^2 \to \Bbb R$, $f(x, y) = x$ works. $\|Df\| = 1$ which is obviously bounded away from both $0$ and $\infty$, and given the sequence $x_k = [0, k]$, $\|f(x_k)\| = 0$ even though $\|x_k\| \to \infty$. So $f$ is not proper.
$Df$ is supposed to be invertible everywhere. I thought that was clear from context. My apologies for lack of clarity.
In everything we're talking about $Df$ should be invertible. Our goal is to take the local inverse function theorem and see whether or not we can make it global.
The Lojasewicz inequality is badass.
...
Go to bed.
Oops, of course not. Sorry! Yes, I don't think I should do math anymore.
I'll think tomorrow when I'm sane and awake.
19:51
First, look up the Lojasewicz inequality.
(to elaborate on the silliness, I misread "nonsingular" as "nonzero")
@MikeMiller If you say so.
That's pretty cool.
${M}{i}{c}{h}{a}{e}{l}{\ }{H}{a}{r}{d}{y}$
So, if $x$ is really near $Z(f)$, it says there's an $\alpha > 0$ such that $d(x, Z(f))^\alpha$ cannot exceed $C\|f(x)\|$ for some $C > 0$.
That does make sense.
20:07
Is it possible to sometimes decompose a Hilbert space into the eigenspaces of an (unbounded) essentially self-adjoint operator?
@MikeMiller Is there an easy counterexample for non-analytic $f$ I am missing?
$\exp(- 1/x^2)$ on $\mathbb R$ is a counterexample, since $C||x||^{-\alpha} \exp(-1/x^2)\to 0$ as $x \to 0$ (for all $\alpha$) (And thus must eventually by smaller than $1$). You can extend this onto the complex plane by taking $f(x+iy)=\exp(-1/x^2)$ and it is smooth
20:34
Hi. A quick hint how to calculate \sum_{k=0}^{n-1} k \cdot 5^k ?
$\sum_{k=0}^{n-1} k \cdot 5^k$
@dash $\sum_{k=0}^{n-1} k \cdot 5^k = (\partial_x \sum_{k=0}^n x^k)\lvert_{x=5}$
 
2 hours later…
22:39
Hi everyone, can I try again:

Can anyone explain the most fundamental reason why perpendicular lines have an angle of 90 degrees?
For the sake of saturday evening :P
the definition?
22:56
Is there a same extension of perpendicularity to less than (or more) 90 degrees as in there is a surface of a Riemann Sphere where the definition of parallel lines is interpreted differently?
23:15
Well I don't know but there are certainly ways to generalize the notion of perpendicularity. Also there is Non-Euclidean geometry where the parallel postulate can be different from the Euclidean parallel postulate.
Would you know where the perpendicular concept is generalized?
@ropstah because 90 is half of 180? it don't mean that sarcastically: it guarantees that rotating a line by 90 degrees twice gives back the original line
GGG
GGG
"Starting from $x\equiv 3\pmod{7}$, this means that $x$ is of the form $x=7k+3$ for some integer $k$. Substituting into the second congruence, we get
$$7k+3 \equiv 2\pmod{5}.$$
Since $7\equiv 2\pmod{5}$, and $3\equiv -2\pmod{5}$, this is equivalent to $\color{blue}{2k-2\equiv 2\pmod{5}}$. Dividing through by $2$ (which we can do since $\gcd(2,5)=1$) we get $k-1\equiv 1\pmod{5}$, or $k\equiv 2\pmod{5}$. That is, $k$ is of the form $k=5r+2$ for some integer $r$." - Could someone please explain how they got the blue bit?
@Semiclassical why would rotating 3, 4 or 6 times to achieve that same result not suffice?
because it'd be a different thing?
23:26
as in the same difference with parallel lines on a curved surface?
@Ropstah For example, two vectors in an inner product space are orthogonal if their inner product is zero, where orthogonality means the same thing as perpendicularity for non-zero Euclidean vectors in 2 or 3 dimensions. (For the record I think a better terminology for this is is that it "extends" the notion rather than generalizes it.)
But take what I say with a grain of salt because most of the time I'm only 50% sure that what I am saying is true :P
@idonutunderstand as in these being both orthogonal?
23:47
Well to say if those are orthogonal you would need to define their inner product space.
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