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10:01
Hi everyone.
hi Matt.
Ahoy thar landlubber =)
A quick question: if I have an old question that I want to do again: what do you think of me deleting it and then posting it again?
I can't really edit it because it has one answer.
@Matt link to the question?
and what new question do you want to ask?
@Srivatsan This is a more general question, not about this particular question.
10:04
Then the general answer is, it depends =)
@Srivatsan anyway, e.g. Here Not a new question
But if you're gonna change the question too much, then I suggest posting it as a new question. In any case, do add a link to the old question.
@Matt You are able to get a solution now?
In that case, why not post an answer instead?
@Srivatsan Because I don't want to post a potentially not 100 % correct answer. That sums up the problem I'm facing quite well.
If I could delete the old version and just repost the new version that would solve all my problems.
Um, you could show some parts of the question?
What do you mean?
10:07
Oh, you doubt your solution?
Yes.
$$\large \begin{align*} x^n & = -b^n \\
& \Updownarrow \\
x &= e^{i\cdot\left(\pi \cfrac{1+k}{n} \right)} \qquad \quad k=0..n \end{align*}$$
? Correct, perhaps? If it is, I am still clueless how to explain it...
@Srivatsan I mean the reason why you don't want anyone to delete old questions is because you don't want any information to be lost, right?
@N3buchadnezzar No, I don't think so.
@Matt I see your point. OTOH, reposting an essentially same question duplicates stuff, no?
@Srivatsan still no ?
10:11
So, to clarify, you want to post a new question with a proposed solution, and people must check your work?
@Srivatsan Kind of not because I think in this homework question they've swept some part under the rug.
@Srivatsan More or less. Is that bad?
@Matt Ok =) . I can promise you that I will not vote for closure. Of course, the rest depends on what others think.
@N3buchadnezzar It will help if we are a bit more systematic.
@Srivatsan Sounds bad. T_T What would you do? Post an answer that is kind of like another question? Would that be preferable?
If I only had time =) I guess I will learn this stuff propperly in my winter vacation.
Exam is tommorow. Having 5 exams and reading 2500 pages in a month is tough.
@N3buchadnezzar But I am telling you that your guess is wrong.
10:15
Yeah, I know that you say my guess is wrong. and I will accept that as the truth.
@Matt No, I didn't mean to discourage you. In any case, just add a link to the old question and try to highlight how this is different. You should be fine, I think.
@N3buchadnezzar You want me to be real quick and give a solution?
Sort of =)
Ok. Thanks! I'll bbl.
Bye all. See you tomorrow. :)
See you, Z.
10:16
I usually hate just getting formulas, not knowing where they come from. But in this case. I "have" too.
Ok. The correct "formula" is:
$$ \large x = b e^{\frac{\pi i (1 + 2k)}{n}}.
$$
Ok, at least let us try to verify that this is right:
So you are basically dividing a circle with radius 1. Where the y axis is the imaginary part and the x axis is the real part into n pieces.
$$
x^n = b^n e^{\frac{\pi i (1+2k}{n} \cdot n} = b^n e^{\pi i (1+2k)} = b^n e^{i \pi} \cdot \left( e^{2i\pi} \right)^k = b^n \cdot -1 \cdot 1^k = - b^n.
$$
Reason for dividing it into n pieces is to make sure that the angle made by $e^{\theta i}$ is correct.
@N3buchadnezzar Kind of. The angle between successive solutions is like $2\pi / n$. However you still must find one of the solutions first.
10:22
and one solution would be for an example
$$x^n = -b^n \rightarrow x = ib = b\cdot e^{i\pi}$$
Nope. The correct one solution would be $x = b e^{i \pi / n}$.
Always, plug it in $x^n = -b^n$ and check...
Just answered a question. Hope I did not mess up this time.
Thanks a bunch
@N3buchadnezzar BTW, I slightly lost my cool somewhere in between. I guess that's because I was talking to 3 people almost simultaneously. Sorry about that... =)
Np
I am kindof embarresed to have to learn Linear Algebra in two days
Sigh
$$ 3x^2 + 8xy - 3y^2 + 5x = 17/4 $$

I am supposed to find what type of conic section section this is.
My first hinge was to try to factor the left side, any hints?
10:36
@N3buchadnezzar I will try to complete the squares. I think there's a formula that works for all cases, but I don't remember that any longer...
The -y^2 is the part that throws me off
@N3buchadnezzar $$\left( \sqrt{3} x + \frac{4y}{\sqrt{3}} + \frac{5}{2 \sqrt{3}} \right)^2 - \frac{16y^2}{3} - \frac{25}{3} - 2 \frac{20x}{2 \sqrt{3} \cdot \sqrt{3}} + 8xy - 3y^2 + 5x $$
@N3buchadnezzar take a look at this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conic_section#Discriminant_classification
discriminant classification will tell you the type of conic it is
$$ \begin{align*} 3x^2 + 8xy - 3y^2 &= 17/4 \\
4x^2 + 8xy + 4y - 7y^2-x^2+5x & = 17/4 \\
4(x+y)^2-\left(7y^2+(x+4)^2\right)&=1/4 \end{align*}$$
$$ \left( \sqrt{3} x + \frac{4y}{\sqrt{3}} + \frac{5}{2 \sqrt{3}} \right)^2 - \frac{16y^2}{3} - \frac{25}{3} - 2 \frac{20x}{2 \sqrt{3} \cdot \sqrt{3}} - 3y^2 $$
10:45
@Srivatsan I would never, ever be able to see that
That again has a mistake.
@Srivatsan would you please point it out? (assuming you are referring to my earlier post)
@NikhilBellarykar Sorry, my expression has a mistake. I can't seem to get it right =)
oh, ok! sorry for intrusion.
@Srivatsan One last thing:Can you please see whether my answer is correct or has a flaw? I think it is correct, but then it is best to get one's answer verified by someone competent.
0
A: Problem about the sum of independent exponential variable

Nikhil BellarykarLet's summarize what is given and what others have answered. $X_1, X_2, \cdots X_n$ are $i.i.d.$ exponential variables with mean $1$. As told by David Mitra, $S_k$, i.e. sum of k independent exponential variables with mean $1/λ$ has a Gamma distribution with parameters $α=k$ and $λ$ . Given $Y_...

Why are $S_k$'s independent?
10:56
Central limit theorem maybe?
@NikhilBellarykar I doubt it actually.
you doubt the approach or the assertion?
If $S_n$ is large then $S_{n+1}$ is also large. CLT doesn't tell much about these kinds of dependencies...
hmm true...
but the statement itself-what is your take on it?
@NikhilBellarykar Which statement? That $S_n$'s are independent? That's clearly false. Asymptotically, they could be independent -- whatever that means. I don't quite know what that means anyway.
11:01
yes, that statement. Now that you have clarified, I am withdrawing my answer.
But, except for that part, the order statistic approach is right, no? I will have to modify the expressions to adjust for dependence, of course.
@NikhilBellarykar Yes, it's right. But I do not know how you're going to account for the dependence. =)
Thanks for the clarification. I also don't know for the time being, but I will see :)
I'm tempted to vote to close. Too quick on the trigger?
I like how this bus has wifi again.
And how everyone suddenly remember to accept my answers today.
@Matt to my uneducated eyes it looks something about statistics more than it is about algorithms or math. It's just me though.
11:18
@AsafKaragila Pop quiz: What does "wifi" stand for?
Your mother?
I have been a computer nerd for more than half of my life. If you want to trick me, try harder and when I am not on the bus from my iPhone. Preferably, though, never.
@AsafKaragila Did you know what it stood for already ... before looking it up on your iPhone sir?
I knew what it meant ever since I learned about the technology in 2002 or so.
11:25
So you'd migrate it there? To me it looks like "what algorithm did X use to produce Y". Answer: Maybe algorithm A or maybe algorithm B... maybe C?
To produce a feasible letter set for example to play in English you'd take the English letter distribution and then select the letters according to that at random. Then you'd have to check if that's easy enough to play and then you'd probably find that you need to tune it a bit to make it easier.
I don't want to impose this question elsewhere. I usually wait to see if someone else makes a move and then I decide what to do.
I thought you had so much back bone? : )
Never mind. Let's wait and see. : )
And just as much indifference. :-)
Israel has some great scenery, and it's such a lovely weather outside.
Not as lovely as here at the moment.
I think those are incomparable.
11:32
Is it true that the U.S. is finally pulling out of the middle east (Iraq)?
@AsafKaragila I edited my comment. Do you think it's too harsh now?
Click here.
G*d bless lmgtfy.
Too harsh or not?
Scalp-a-troll: who cares???
Matt, I don't think so.
Ok, thanks. I'll leave it then.
11:40
I shall go on to look outside and ponder life, math and whanots. See you later Matt.
@Matt I think it is.
but then again, I find lmgtfy silly and presumptuous.
Thanks, Matt. =)
11:57
the whole question has calculations to messy for someone lazy like me..hussshhhh
The probability question?
the one on which I sought your opinion some time ago. I just replaced the intersection with the product of conditional probabilities...
yes, that one.
You really think that's just about calculating? I for one don't see what you intend to do -- at all.
See you later Asaf.
Well, I just want to answer the question for the simple reason that I can, upto a level. As I am a newbie here, I thought to give this question a try, thats all :)
12:02
See, it's not about whether you are a new user or not. You say you can answer the question upto some level. I just happen to think it's a hard question.
Again it's not that I am discouraging you. You might have an idea that eludes the rest of us.
In any case, I have to leave right now.
See you, Nikhil and @Matt.
Ok, see you @Srivatsan.
The calculations get messy, otherwise the problem is not hard- that's my opinion of course. Don't know what subtleties might lie there, though.
@NikhilBellarykar Ok, conceptually, can you tell me what you're trying to do?
@Srivatsan See you later Srivatsan : )
@Matt =)
yes. We have iid exponential variables. We thus know the pdf and cdf of their partial sums i.e. gamma distribution. The cdf of absolute value of difference between a partial sum and its mean is also given in a comment. What is required is the cdf of maximum of the set of absolute value of difference between a partial sum and its mean and that can be calculated from the order statistic approach.
The absolute differences translate to partial sums which are dependent. So that involves some messy calculations. Otherwise, in my opinions, that's all about the problem.
12:11
Ahoy =)
Shiver me timbers, complex numbers ahead...
@NikhilBellarykar I see. This looks sound, whatever you wrote till now. I can even imagine writing it down as a giant summation, integrals and whatnot. But it's perhaps not clear that this can be simplified much, is it?
And, btw, I should really get going. Sorry I couldn't stay longer. See you.
@Srivatsan yes, indeed. Can't simplify it much. thanks for your patience.
Nikhil, you experienced with complex numbers? =)
@N3buchadnezzar not much, man. what is your question btw?
12:18
you want to solve it for complex numbers?
that is easy enough. x^4+4=0 implies x^4=-4. Thus, x^2 is either -2i or 2i.

Thus, for x^2=2i, x= plus or minus [sqrt(2)][sqrt(i)] and for x^2=-2i, x= plus or minus [sqrt(2)][cube root of(i)]
Thanks, I guess I figured it out =)
hahah
We have to use DeMordies formula or something complex
hmm
@AsafKaragila: logarithms reduced multiplication to addition. Laplace transform reduced differentiation and integration to multiplication and division. Does there exist a method that reduces something more complicated to say, taking transforms of functions?
yo there, anyone wishes to answer my question?
12:56
May I double-check my understanding of an old homework question of mine with someone in here and then ask a question related to it?
The question is about density of compactly supported functions and mollifiers.
@Matt shoot
That startled me, I thought the room was "empty" and expected to hear back in a few hours or so.
So the question is related to [this](http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/67370/smooth-functions-with-compact-support-are-dense-in-l1)
okay. very good. Do you want me to read it in its entirety?
No, I'm typing. : )
Hi!
@Matt Ahh. Mollifiers <3.
Does anyone know if there exist general methods to improve the speed of convergence of a series? I.e., can we find a different series that converges faster to the same number?
13:09
@Matt still typing?
I was going to ask if I got the big picture and then while typing I found an inconsistency. Now I'm going to ask the related question and maybe come back with this one.
So in that question they claim $J_\varepsilon$ is a mollifier. I looked up the definition and one of the properties that it should have is that $\lim_{\varepsilon \to 0} J_\varepsilon (x) = \delta(x)$, so I tried to verify this. Somehow I get $\infty$ for all $x$ in $\mathbb{R}$.
Isn't that a limit in distributional sense?
What does that mean?
@JonasTeuwen yes it is, but it's not important here
I get $$ \lim_{\varepsilon \to 0} \frac{k}{\varepsilon} e^{- \frac{1}{1 - (\frac{x}{\varepsilon})^2}} = \infty$$ for all $x \in \mathbb{R}$
Which means I can't even compute a limit because I should get $0$ for $x \neq 0$.
13:15
I really dislike the fact that vector valued distributions are no longe the duals of nice spaces :(.
@Matt wait. $J_\varepsilon(x) = 0$ for $|x| \gt \varepsilon$.
(that's because $J(x) = 0$ for $|x| \gt 1$.)
By definition. Doh. : S
8-). Do you know why we love mollifiers?
@tb Thank you.
Why state it that way with a distribution and not just $\|J_\varepsilon \ast f - f\| \to 0$?
13:19
@JonasTeuwen No.
Well, because what I wrote above. Your mollifier is nicely compactly supported and smooth.
So taking convolutions with $L^p$ functions gives us another of such a nice function.
So, then you can do cute calculations with that function and take limits to regain our original function.
@tb This morning I noticed that you had edited this question about a month after I'd asked it. Do you re-read old stuff at random to fix typos? Or did you go through my old stuff to see what I hadn't been doing properly?
@JonasTeuwen Yes I was thinking about this while trying to get the big picture of the question. Just going to go over it again now.
@Matt As that is a distributional limit it actually states the same as the convolution with the $\delta$ distribution in $x$ picks up the value of the original function in the point $x$. Roughly speaking.
A quite well-known Dutch (for Dutch standards) algebraist said about analysis that he never has an "Aha Erlebnis" when seeing analysis proofs. He says it is all about computing integrals by splitting them into pieces and calculate them separately... :'D.
@Matt The answer is plain and simple: I was eradicating the typo "Lebesque" from this site, so I searched for it and edited all posts in which I found it. It was around the same time as Srivatsan and I were taking care of the various spellings of continuous...
I always wonder why people upvote such answers
I believe he proved a conjecture by Grothendieck in 2002. Frans Oort.
13:30
Yeah, embarrassing. I know how to spell it correctly. No idea how my finger slipped there. Thanks for correcting it.
@JonasTeuwen Oh, I know him. I guess he's retired, now?
@tb Yes in 2000.
@tb Maybe the guy forgot the closure of that space?
But in that case the question is quite... strange.
That's well possible, but you never know.
@JonasTeuwen I don't know either how I wandered off the right path. When I was in first year I was looking forward to not doing analysis anymore and only do discrete maths like e.g. algebra and graph theory. I wonder how I ended up the way I ended up. : P
@JonasTeuwen Just to make you upset: $\|f(x)\|_p$ and $\|u(x)\|_{1,2}$
13:34
@Matt And how did you end up? :P.
@tb That second one is the Sobolev norm?
Or Triebel-Lizorkin or something like that...
Just a random norm containing a function together with its argument
I would write that as (if I need the argument): $\|x \mapsto f(x)\|_{L^p(\mathbf R)}$.
I know
Someone here needed a norm on something like $L^p(L^{p'}(L^q, \nu)), \mu)$
@JonasTeuwen I think I can't parse this sentence.
13:36
@Matt Which one?
But I think you can take a not necessarily continuous $f$ in $L^p$ and then mollify it to get a smooth function $f_\varepsilon$ by convoluting it with a mollifier.
@JonasTeuwen Click the up arrow next to your name.
@Matt where $f_\varepsilon$ is close to $f$.
@Matt Yes, and then it will converge in norm to $f$. I mean that "$(f \ast \delta)(x) = f(x)$".
So your identity is basically the same statement.
@Matt The rule of thumb is that the convolution of two functions is as smooth as the smoother of the two.
Yes, I read that earlier today.
So if you convolve an integrable function with a continuous function the result is continuous. If you convolve an integrable function with a $C^k$ function the result is $C^k$, and so on. The point is essentially that $(f \ast g)' = f' \ast g = f \ast g'$, so you can push the derivatives on the function which is differentiable.
13:43
@Matt Woah check out Rajesh's comments!
(but what is the derivative of a $L^1$ function? :-))
You take a representative of an equivalence class which is not necessarily continuous and not necessarily differentiable and try to take a derivative?
@JonasTeuwen Do I have to? I think I can't be bothered.
@Matt Of course not.
@Matt Well, in some cases you can take the weak derivative.
Density of the $C^\infty$ functions in our Sobolev spaces make that work.
@Matt So. You're doing analysis and forcing at the same time? That's peculiar.
@Matt In your topic why can you switch the derivative and the integral? I think you need to argue what that is allowed.
@JonasTeuwen I was badgered into it. I have to have what's called "complementary" courses. I didn't fancy the one's offered so I applied to get this set theory course credited as complementary course.
@Matt So. You got this other question showing that $C_c$ is dense in $L^p$ with a rather detailed proof in the answer.
I've a Q whose language I'm unable to understand (meaning) . May I the Q?
13:50
You could used the closedness of the derivative operator :-).
@JonasTeuwen sounds like begging the question, doesn't it?
@tb, @JonasTeuwen Can I have a minute? You type and ask faster than I can type and answer.
Hmm, how do you mean? Taking weak derivatives is a closed operator isn't it?
Yes. But proving that involves showing what you want to show.
@Matt sure.
@FreakEnum just ask
Oh, right in this case it does 8-).
13:53
Q : There is a bacteria which has the probability of die 1/3 of its total number or it may tripled. Find out the probability //I am unable to understand what does author means by tripled death probability?
So you have a probability that says that you end up with 2/3 of the bacteria you had or with 3 times the number of bacteria you had before.
@tb still didn't understand that or part "or with 3 times the number of bacteria you had before."
You start with x bacteria. With probability p you end up with (2/3) x bacteria and with probability 1-p you end up with 3x bacteria.
@JonasTeuwen What were you referring to?
QED
QED
that seems unrealistic
14:01
@tb so how do I solve this?
I've no Idea
@tb I haven't finished with this one. What were you going to say?
@FreakEnum Can you post the question verbatim?
@Matt There is a bacteria which has the probability of die 1/3 of its total number or it may tripled. Find out the probability
@Matt Well, if you know that for every $L^p$ function $f$ and $\varepsilon \gt 0$ you find a continuous function $g$ with compact support such that $\|f-g\|_p \lt \varepsilon$. Then the thing that remains to show is that you can find a smooth function with compact support which is arbitrarily close to $g$.
@tb That's what I was thinking about. The answer is to mollify $g$.
Yes. Exactly. What you gain by replacing $f$ by $g$ is that now you have a function $g$ which is continuous and of compact support, hence it is uniformly continuous. Now if you take $\delta$ so small that $|x-y| \lt \delta$ implies $|f(x) - f(y)| \lt \varepsilon$ then $J_{\delta}(x) \ast g$ can't be too far away from $g$.
@FreakEnum I think there is some information that was lost in translation.
14:11
@tb anyways I was thinking the same but how to calculate probability of getting tripled?
how to calculate probability of getting tripled?
Well, could it be that the answer is just 1-p where p is the probability that one third dies?
well the solution is:
It has to be 1/3 of dieing plus living which is given by 2/3 * p^3 as p is tripled so raised to 3
probability of die is 1/3
or
its get tripled
the probability of tripled is 2/3*p*p*p
that's 2/3*p^3
but I'm unable to understand the solution also
I can't make head or tails of this, to be honest.
here is another problem : If the area was hit by a virus and so the decrease in the population because of death was x/3 and the migration from other places increased a population by 2x then annually it had so many ppl. find our the population in the starting.
Can you please confirm the answer? : mine is "x"
14:26
@tb Did you mean this? I can't find one with $L^p$ in my old questions.
@Matt Yes, that's the one I meant. Adapting it to $L^p$ is straightforward.
for ($1 \leq p \lt \infty$)
Yes, just making sure.
@tb can you please help me with above question?
@FreakEnum Sorry I have to leave now. There's certainly someone else who can help you.
@tb no problem :), Anyways thanks a lot for support :)
@tb what's your age if you don't mind telling?
14:33
@tb Thanks!
I found an interesting question in a pre-algebra education book that involves trying to explain to students what a "variable" is.
I like the part "A rose is a rose is a rose."
@Skullpatrol look up Gertrude Stein
@FreakEnum 33
Now I'm gone for good, see y'all later
Bye tb.
QED
QED
@Skullpatrol you need lambda calculus
QED
QED
14:49
Hello
@QED If you look at the beginning of that article it says "Logicians spend lots of time carefully defining open variables, closed variables, and so forth..."
QED
QED
You can do it on one page.
And the formalism is endlessly useful
Although the theory and proofs take a bit longer.
But it's all extremely beautiful
Anyone know where I can read more about using trigonometric substitutions to solve equations ? =)
QED
QED
@N3buchadnezzar, it's not something I know about, but I think the Weierstrass substitution is one important one to know.
I sort of need to find the solutions to $$ \sqrt{a - \sqrt{a+x}} = x $$ for x. It was a quiz question in a book i read.
QED
QED
14:52
(Since it can resolve a huge number of problems)
oh I thought you meant for integrals
I know weierstrass like my own butt. Although the one above is giving me a headache.
QED
QED
How about rewriting it as $a+x = (\sqrt{a} - x)^2 (\sqrt{a} + x)^2$
Now you can just multiply it out and use the quadratic formula
QED
QED
er
that's completely wrong, it's a quartic.
I ended up with
$$x^4-2ax^2-x+a^2-a$$
When i blindly raised both sides, and gathered all the terms.
QED
QED
14:55
Well there is a formula that gives solutions for quartics, but it's very complicated. So there will probably be a nicer way.
Yeah
I was thinking about using some substitution on the equation above, to get it into the form $$x^4 + cx^2 + b = 0$$
But alas, I am not capable of doing so.

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