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08:00
@Srivatsan I find the line $1 \cdot (1+1/n)^n$ somewhat artificial. I probably preferred the earlier version.
@tb Yes, I prefer the previous version too. I just wanted to show it to you before editing back, that's all.
Thanks for the feedback though.
If I want to really snappy, I would just say: here the numbers; applying AM-GM to them will get what you want. :-)
@ZeeshanMahmud Not quite what you're looking for, but Robert Israel has a cute article "Time of the winning goal" on his homepage math.ubc.ca/~israel
@t.b. Thanks, just bookmarked under #winning
@t.b. : did you have time to look at my last comment.........i wonder what is involved in the difference between method 1 and method 3 in picking a chord...in this page en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertrand_paradox_%28probability%29
@ZeeshanMahmud this reminds me of the "anti-God battery". See here
@Srivatsan right :) Doesn't hurt to spell it out, though, I believe.
08:10
@tb Did spell it out. =)
I've seen that :)
@RajeshD what do you mean by what is the difference. There's a difference, obviously.
I saw this answer today: math.stackexchange.com/questions/32386. I want to write such a nice answer.
Some day =)
@ZeeshanMahmud A. Y. Govan and C.D.Mayer. Ranking national football league teams using google’s pagerank. ncsu.edu/crsc/reports/ftp/pdf/crsc-tr06-19.pdf.
They compared it with some other algorithms and they claim: _Our PageRank based method
outperformed both humans as well as algorithms by Keener and by Redmond by predicting more
winners correctly._
Hi @Martin, Done with your retag for today?
@Srivatsan Yes
08:14
@Srivatsan thanks! that's me fooling around with geogebra... It was fun.
I've seen you've done a few algebra -> algebra-precalculus, too.
Thanks Martin :)
@Srivatsan I really prefer the second version, but apparently people disagree...
Anyone else excited about Leonardo as Turing...(and Sherlock Holmes)...
@ZeeshanMahmud My guess is that when you search a little, you'll find plenty of research in this area: e.g scholar.google.com/… and scholar.google.com/…
08:16
@tb Don't know why.
@Srivatsan well, I guess it's because the first answer is very long and heavily upvoted, so they look at that one. By the time they get to the second version they're tired of the problem.
@tb But did the second one appear later?
Got it Martin...
@Srivatsan yes, about a week later.
I do not the know the history; only remember that the answers appeared a couple months after the question was posted.
08:19
@t.b. : then why is the probability different........we muct certainly counting something multiple times or ignoring something somewhere
Oh, great. It's saturday tomorrow.
Is there a badge for reaching daily rep limit several days in a row? (For 3 days, it could be called hattrick badge :-) Brian M. Scott's reputation in last days looks impressive.
I can go to a different coffee shop tomorrow.
well, everything he writes here is very good; but this is even more impressive...
@MartinSleziak - it's hat-trick, no?
08:23
Speaking of badges, if you leave your comp on all day for 100 consec days, not idle ie, do you get the gold badge? :]
@ZeeshanMahmud - why would that give you a badge?
@Srivatsan well, I thought about the problem when it was posted with little success. Then there was the now deleted answer and a bit later the comment by user8268 appeared. I was happy with that, but when I was having fun with Geogebra, it felt like a nice thing to work out in detail.
@Srivatsan I do not know if badges are awarded by mods or automated?
@Srivatsan Personally, I wouldn't spend too much time on writing "nice answers," but that is just my opinion. ;-)
08:25
@ZeeshanMahmud You need to do more than visit the front page. It isn't exactly specified what you need to do, but you need to read a few questions, I think, in order for the day to count as "visited the page".
I thing I've seen somewhere in meta that you have to look at least into one question. (Displaying main site in browser isn't enough.)
@tb Like one can just visit the front page... =) It's like the Lays ad all over again.
I mean: I would be happy if I could resist the temptation of opening a few questions.
Lays or Pringles...
tb Of course, what you said makes sense to prevent a badge going to someone who writes a script to visit the site everyday without doing any real work.
This meta question explains more details about that badge: meta.math.stackexchange.com/questions/2345/…
08:28
@RajeshD isn't that the point of the paradox?
Sri I believe it would still be possible to write such a script.
Hm. Are there really people who'd waste time to write a script for a badge?
yes
@t.b.
I suggest that you look at the literature referred to in that article.
I'll think about it for a while
08:29
Or someone who works with his computer every day could put some question as the homepage which opens when starting his browswer.
@Matt it''s akin to the guy who tattooed periodic table...
@MartinSleziak Yes, it should be possible.
@ZeeshanMahmud Wait, are you talking about Prison Break? =)
I'm sure @JonasTeuwen likes the title of this question although he applies that idiom to Google.
Haha : D
@ZeeshanMahmud I had to look it up.
08:33
I believe badges and rep are similar to scientometrics in this sense: If someone cares about doing good math/giving good answers and help improving MSE he'll probably get good numbers (of rep points/scientometric measurements). But if one only cares for number of papers and citations/badges and rep points, there are certainly ways how to "twist the system" in your favor.
@Srivatsan No I meant the 9gag joke titled "trying too hard" about someone tattooing the table to pass the test...
Does anyone have good idea and interest in convergence issues of Fourier series
?
Speaking of 9gag jokes. This never gets old a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/…
I need some help
@MartinSleziak Do you think it's worth opening up a question thread on the quotation "In mathematics the art of asking questions is more valuable than solving problems."
08:35
@Skull : I would simply say.............get lost.......
@ZeeshanMahmud I think that's the first funny maths joke I see : D
@Matt mathS? You Brit! =)
@Srivatsan Limey, aren't I? : )
@MartinSleziak Since this is a question/answer web site about mathematics.
@Skullpatrol I dont' know. But the worst thing that could happen to you is that it will get closed. If you are really interested in this and you think you can get some interesting answers there, go ahead and ask the question.
08:38
@RajeshD - not too polite, is it?
sorry about that.......don't pay attention to it
Ok =)
Speaking of acceptability, is it ok if I ask for mod attention here to my question in comment?
@MartinSleziak Do you find it interesting?
@Skullpatrol If I see such question, I don't have strong feelings that it should be closed. But other MSE members might feel differently - you won't find out until you try.
08:40
@MartinSleziak Thank you for your polite answer.
Here are some people putting sweat and blood in answering questions.......and you say art of asking questions is great.........ofcourse you are damn right ! @Skull
And tears...
@Skullpatrol It's definitely not the same thing, but it reminded mi a little Dyson's Birds and Frogs: ams.org/notices/200902/rtx090200212p.pdf This paper is a very interesting read for any mathematician. (I believe I read it because it was mentioned at MO or MSE.)
Is it OCD of me to think about deleting old questions of mine that never got answered?
08:44
@Matt No, don't do that. =)
I can add a please to that request.
@MartinSleziak I'm afraid to say that I found that article one of the silliest things I ever read.
@tb No problem. It's ok to have different opinions, I guess.
How is our friend JvN a frog? From his breadth, I would classify him a bird.
If we agree to disagree do we agree or disagree then?
@Srivatsan Then I won't, I guess.
08:48
@Martin : IMHO such a classification is to trivialize mathematicians and it is far from reality and too simplistic and it is a joke i guess
@RajeshD Do you have ANY idea of who I am quoting or in what context it was said?
I think I've read Dyson's paper because I've seen it in this thread: mathoverflow.net/questions/2144/… The upvotes show that there are at least a few people that enjoyed it.
@RajeshD I am not sure if this classification is simplistic or not. But people do fall in certain broad patterns.
@ZeeshanMahmud If we disagree to agree do we agree or disagree then?
sorry if my opinion on this topic is not in good taste.......but I normally wouldn't venture into such bold and daring things............
08:51
@Skullpatrol it was merely a whimsical wordplay after Martin's answer to have different opinions. :)
ohhh...i see what you did there..you transposed the order..
@ZeeshanMahmud ;-)
whimsical wordplay
@RajeshD The person I quoted ventured into such bold and daring things............
@Skullpatrol whom did you quote?
If I should blindly guess, I guess JvN.
@skullpatrol "quotations are inspirations for the uninspired"
:)
@RajeshD Didn't you say you needed help with Fourier series?
yes
@Matt
08:57
So, what's up?
@Srivatsan Not JvN but George Cantor wrote: "In mathematics the art of asking questions is more valuable than solving problems." on the front page of his PhD dissertation paper.
@Matt : i'll be back in a few minutes....changing my location from room to lab
@Skullpatrol Someone I know wrote "Dedicated to Jack and Jill" on the front page of her dissertation. Does that count as profound too? =)
@Srivatsan Was it Pitbull? :]
@Srivatsan Did that person change mathematics as Cantor did?
09:03
@ZeeshanMahmud You mean this person? She is not him, I believe. =)
@Srivatsan Yes, one of his profound lyrics include: Jack and Jill went up the hill//
Each with a buck and a quarter//Jill came back with $2.50.. a working girl
@Skullpatrol Being a terrific mathematician doesn't mean that everything you say is worth gold. Cf. New Chronology for example
@tb I agree, but he did put it on the front page of his PhD dissertation paper
So what?
@tb The same paper that changed mathematics forever ... with set theory.
09:10
@Skull : according to your statement, Mathematics is an art. Is it ?
Someone was having a good laugh when they wrote New Chronology.
@RajeshD For one thing it is not MY statement and for another it is "question asking" that is the art.
@Matt : assume a periodic function which is smooth everywhere except at a point where it isn't differentiable and let a_k be its Fourier series coefficients. Now form a new Fourier series with coefficients i*k*a_k, i need to know the convergence of this series ?
@Skull : I do not want to get into such trivial arguments.........please talk about some mathematics rather than how mathematics works
QED
QED
is mathematics an art?
I'd say it is a science
Conversely, is art mathematics?
09:16
Is art art?
@RajeshD So you want to work on math and not know how math works.
I felt free to fill in the missing possibilities. =)
@Skullpatrol That's inaccurate. His 1867 Dissertation was entitled "De aequationibus secundi gradus indeterminatis" and doesn't have such an epigraph.
@t.b. However this link says yes. en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Georg_Cantor (btw how do i encode links inside word?)
09:20
@tb Please recheck your source.
@Zee [word](link)
Thanks Rajesh.
tb gives us a scanned copy of the dissertation. What's a more authentic source for the dissertation than the dissertation itself? =)
@Skullpatrol What Srivatsan said.
@RajeshD What do you know about $a_k$?
09:22
@Matt : you mean ?
i know they decay faster than 1/k
@RajeshD Aces.
In re mathematica ars proponendi pluris facienda est quam solvendi.
In mathematics the art of asking questions is more valuable than solving problems.
Doctoral thesis (1867); variant translation: In mathematics the art of proposing a question must be held of higher value than solving it.
@RajeshD And $\sum |a_k| < \infty$?
well cant say...
does faster than 1/k implies summability ?
@Skullpatrol You claimed two things 1. "he did put it on the front page of his PhD dissertation paper" -- he didn't. 2. "The same paper that changed mathematics forever ... with set theory." -- it didn't. In fact his dissertation has nothing to do with set theory.
09:26
then ?
FWIW, this link also attributes it to the said dissertation.
@Srivatsan I don't deny that it's in there. See above.
@tb - which I was surprised to see. In fact, he first worked on number theory and analysis, according to wikipedia.
@tb Yes, sure. No one gives a more precise attribution though (like, a page number).
@Srivatsan sure, set theory came about 10 years later.
T h e s e t s. I see sets as formless whirling clouds of sand, particles of which
are indiscernable [1]. So, can we do somewhat with them?
09:30
@RajeshD Faster than 1/k^3 would help. : ) I think I can't help you, sorry.
but they wouldnt......as f is not differentiable
ok
@RajeshD What do you mean?
@Skullpatrol I don't relate sets to desert storms. :)
[1] One can hear an read that Cantor came up with the idea of sets incidentally
searching trigonometrical series. Although this sems to be a simplification, it
can serve as an explanation of Cantor‟s neophitic faith to the idea of sets about
which he had never hear before.
09:33
if 'f' is not a differentiable function then the it can be said that the Fourier coefficients decay faster than 1/k but cannot say whether they decay faster than 1/k^2
@Matt
QED
QED
yes
@Srivatsan See this:
Last page of the linked article.
@RajeshD I think that doesn't help.
@PaulHankin : D : D
FUNNY!
@tb Thanks. Roughly, what "section" of the thesis is this? What are those three points?
@Matt - what's funny? =)
@Srivatsan It's too difficult to explain.
09:39
@Matt Um, right. =)
@Srivatsan I have no idea.
Some sort of summary/upshot, I guess.
@tb Is this German? Google Translate is giving a blank stare when I type them.
@Srivatsan It's Latin.
thanks @t.b.
$f$
"In the arithmetic method far superior to the merely analytical arithmetic"
09:43
oops
[Cantor 1932, 31]: "In re mathematica ars proponendi quaestionem pluris facienda est quam
solvendi."
http://books.google.sk/books?id=vrQLbbxGNMsC&pg=PA39&dq=%22in+re+mathematica+ars+proponendi%22
Maybe 31 refers to page number?
"Numbers is the absolute reality of space and time, because of its nature of the controversy can not be judged."
@tb Thanks. I copy-pasted the rough translations from google.
@MartinSleziak yes, it's on page 31. See the picture I posted a bit further up. It's on the last page of the document I linked to.
Thanks for the link!
The reference is to 1932 Gesammelte Abhandlungen mathematischen und philosophischen Inhalts, ed. E.
Zermelo, Berlin, Springer. Reprint Hildesheim, G. Olms, 1966.
yey it works now....thanks to @robjohn
09:49
@tb Can we agree to postpone all these details, and could you give me your opinion: do you think it's worth opening up a question thread on the quotation, since this is a question/answer web site about mathematics. "In mathematics the art of proposing a question must be held of higher value than solving it."
:2675363
@Skullpatrol We can. I'm not particularly thrilled about such a question. It's more soliciting a discussion than an answerable question.
@Srivatsan What is your opinion?
@Skull : you have been asking such questions in chat.....did you ever get an interesting answer from anyone ?
@Skullpatrol Well, I feel the question is too vague to be useful. Perhaps the other users might like your question better, but it isn't too likely.
09:56
who invented math?
@Jack lol what timing!!!
I didn't for sure
Kronecker?
@RajeshD lol if you did I hate you :D
Math is love :)
09:59
sigh
@ZeeshanMahmud so tell me whose love :x
certainly not math
so who found zero "0"
Charles Seife?
@Jack Do mathematicians invent math or do mathematicians discover math?
10:01
Indians
@Skullpatrol but they should know who did what ...
@tb Can you wake me up once we're done with this? =)
ancient Indians found zero
@RajeshD yea boy...
Aryabhat who discovered zero
@Srivatsan I will. Sleep long and well!
10:03
nope..........it is attributed to ancient indians and not specific to any person
@Jack Was zero INVENTED or did it already exist? yea boy...
@tb I was joking then, but I guess I will actually go to sleep. =)
@Srivatsan That sounds like a good idea. See you tomorrow!
@RajeshD whatever.
@Skullpatrol god knows:D
See you, guys! I wish the discussion to be as grand a success as it promises to be.
2
10:06
@Srivatsan Take care have a nice time ahead...
@Srivatsan Are you aspiring to become the mean cube? :)
@Jack But can God create a stone that he can not lift?
@Srivatsan Good night! (what little remains of it)
@Skullpatrol He created you and he want you to do the same..
> :D
Good night, @Srivatsan!
Bakery time here, bbl.
10:08
who play games here?
@Jack I do and its called TROLL buster
Okay its getting late here. It was nice chatting with you all. Will see you later. :)
@t.b. : in order to do research does one needs to be aggressive ? (my advisor says this) and i am totally puzzled by what it means !
@Skullpatrol okay i font know what kind of busting goes there...
*dont
@ZeeshanMahmud You belong from?
@RajeshD you belong from?
India
10:15
@RajeshD India is very big..more than your imagination..
10:35
@Matt: How do you do?
11:09
@AsafKaragila Good, thanks. How are you?
@Matt Life goes on, but we shall forever endure the pain.
I should probably work through my proof about symmetric extensions.
MaX
MaX
11:24
Hi
Hi MaX.
To the Texmaker!
MaX
MaX
Hi Mat how are you ?
Or actually, I'll give a round to the new Gummi version.
Thanks, fine, how are you?
11:28
@MartinSleziak That would be "Epic" and "Legendary".
MaX
MaX
Fine too :)
@JM IIRC Epic is not for >>consecutive<< days. Do I remember it wrong?
Hey @JM : )
MaX
MaX
Hey J.M :)
Hi to you, you, and before I forget, you.
11:29
@JM I have another anecdote. Would you like to hear?
MaX
MaX
Who is the third 'you'?
@MartinSleziak Oh, right. Then I don't remember anything that deals with "consecutive"...
@AsafKaragila No, I believe it was me ;-)
@Matt As long as you're cool with them hearing it too, sure. :)
11:30
You can believe all you want, I am still Koenig.
@robjohn: You're not answering, you're so silent... You are Silent Bob.
Sure otherwise I wouldn't say it here ; )
So yesterday in class I spoke to a (female) class mate. Don't know how we ended up on *that* topic but she said she got asked by someone what her major was. When she said "Maths." the response was "What? You don't look like that."
@MartinSleziak Epic: Earned 200 daily reputation 50 times.
@Matt You know, "beauty and brains" is actually quite rare...
That's all it says. I don't know how it's implemented.
@JM But being told that you don't look like someone who can do maths sucks. Anyway, she said she used to wear contacts and now switched to glasses and she said it's working, people tend to treat her with more respect : )
11:36
Low cuts would work better.
@Matt I'd speculate it was more like "you don't look like the typical appearance of a mathematician". At least, that's the charitable interpretation.
@JM I'd say beauty and brains are uncorrelated. Making a statement about appearance seems meaningless to me.
MaX
MaX
In how many ways a 4×4 game board can be colored using four colors (red,green,blue, yellow, green) in such a way that each small square has a single color and the board looks exactly the same from all sides?
Is this a well known combinatoric problem?
@AsafKaragila : )
11:41
@Matt Oh, certainly I agree. Unfortunately, most people have this tendency towards "snap judgment". Even if you're smart, if you don't "look smart", they'll still dismiss you. It's cruel, but true. :(
On the other hand, being a guy works fine. You can be both smart and sexy.
MaX
MaX
@AsafKaragila : but isn't correlation-causation is a fallacy ?
That's my point, MaX.
(It is rather unfortunate that those people @ /. throw CINC around even if in fact it doesn't apply.)
MaX
MaX
@J.M:CINC ?
11:45
What's CINC?
"correlation is not causation"
MaX
MaX
I particularly despise Ad hominem.
I despise you. In particular. CONCORDANTLY!
MaX
MaX
@Asaf:why ?
@MaX well, that's more a general philosophical fallacy.
11:47
@MaX I am Ad hominem.
Yes, "Asaf Karagila" is merely an assumed name... :D
MaX
MaX
@Asaf: I knew you are :)
@J.M :D
And yet, you despise me and wonder why I won't despise you back...
MaX
MaX
You are Red herring too.
No, that's yo momma.
MaX
MaX
11:51
How you know that ?
I know everything.
MaX
MaX
That's Hasty generalization.
@AsafKaragila Except for my email address.
@Matt I know that too.
@MaX See, he's a fountain of fallacies!
11:53
@AsafKaragila I don't think that's possible. You're a bluff.
But also set theory.
@Matt You do have an email address.
MaX
MaX
@J.M: Rather a waterfall ...
@MaX Okay, "geyser"...
@MaX : D
@AsafKaragila I was about to say you can tell that by Matt's avatar, but it is a custom avatar...
11:55
@robjohn Indeed. It doesn't have the four-fold rotational symmetry...
MaX
MaX
@J.M: :D
@AsafKaragila Let's verify your claim: send me an email.
@Matt He's out of postage stamps at the moment.
: D
MaX
MaX
11:57
:D
He's gone all quiet now.
MaX
MaX
How can we be sure that Asaf is 'he' ? :P
@MaX He's the Koenig...
König?
MaX
MaX
@robjohn:he is a crater ?
@MaX It means "king".
11:59
@robjohn That's the proper rendering. :)
@Matt "King" in the sense of chess...
I am a dude. Or a lesbian with no breasts and a penis, if you prefer to think of it like that.
2
MaX
MaX
But you are Ad hominem
@MaX Ad man? ;-)
12:04
@JM : )
MaX
MaX
@robjohn: what is Ad man?
@MaX A person in the advertising business...
MaX
MaX
So can we have Ad woman ?
My eyes have been fooling me lately. I was reading this and thought "who uses a breath freshener brand as a username?"
MaX
MaX
@J.M:Never heard of of breath freshener called Bianca
MaX
MaX
hmm...
@MaX It's a joke about Binaca
@JM beat me to it :-)
MaX
MaX
It's not available in India
Blimey, this hurts. I was over-thinking this homework question. Now I spent a day on something obvious.
12:14
The questions about propositional logic, truth tables and stuff like that do not fit , tag would be a better fit. The boolean-algebra tag is intended for boolean algebras as structures $(B,\wedge,\vee,\neg,0,1)$. Am I right? We have a bunch of such questions: math.stackexchange.com/search?q=[boolean-algebra]+truth+table
@MaX Let me finish part 3, I'll post it as a question on SE later.
I do not plan to go and retag old ones, I just want to be sure what to do, when new questions will appear or when such question is bumped.
@MartinSleziak I think so too.
Thanks! That's what I wanted to hear.
(or to read)
MaX
MaX
@Martin: Going through the first two question I think Boolean-algebra is the correct tag
or may be we should have something as digital-logic
12:19
I'm stepping out for a few minutes. You guys behave, eh?
@MaX Well there's Boolean algebra and Boolean algebras as structures. Tag wiki suggests that this tag is intended for the second use.
Tag wiki: Boolean algebras are structures which behave similar to a power set with complement, intersection and union. Questions regarding Boolean algebras as structures, or regarding functions defined from/to Boolean algebras fit into this tag very nicely.
MaX
MaX
@Martin Sleziak:Ow, I have only studied the former.
But then we should have a new tag I believe.
Sorry, I had to go help my girlfriend with some proof reading.
MaX
MaX
@Asaf: Sure, been there .. done it all..
@MaX You're just Mad, Max.
@MartinSleziak Who wrote that??
MaX
MaX
12:28
@Asaf Karagila: I know that why I am talking with you.
@AsafKaragila Tag excerpt history show Asaf Karagila and Willie Wong math.stackexchange.com/posts/53826/revisions
@MartinSleziak I know, that was a rhetorical question to show how great and benevolent the Koenig is :-P
Yes, I answered so that other people now that too.
MaX
MaX
Btw I remember there was a question asking for the prove of the identity $ Proving \binom{n}{r} = \binom{n-1}{r} +\binom{n-1}{r-1}$ .. could anybody help me to find the url ?
12:36
0
Q: why is ${n+1\choose k} = {n\choose k} + {n\choose k-1}$?

repwn Possible Duplicate: Proving ${{n} \choose {r}}={{n-1} \choose {r-1}}+{{n-1} \choose r}$ when $1\leq r\leq n$ can someone explain to me the proof of $${n+1\choose k} = {n\choose k} + {n\choose k-1}$$ Thanks in advance!

Did you mean this (and the linked questions?)
MaX
MaX
Thanks Martin, but can you tell me how you search for this one?
Oh, now I did not have to search, my browser remembered it.
MaX
MaX
remembered ?
@Max: If you google for "n choose r" site:math.stackexchange.com, then you find it.
But whether to search for "n choose r" "\binom{n}{k}" or "\binom{n+1}k" is just a guessing game.
Or you can simply go through the questions tagged binomial-coefficients, there are not that many.
MaX
MaX
Hmm thanks Martin :)
12:43
@MaX In this case - I remembered that I had this question open in my browser recently and that the question started with "Why". When I started typing "why" in the address bar, it appeared among recently visited pages which contain the word "why" in the title.
Some useful tips for searching are here: meta.math.stackexchange.com/questions/3258/…
MaX
MaX
Aw that's nice

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