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Huy
Huy
15:12
@Clarinetist: I'm here for an hour or so again, if you're still around.
@Huy I managed to reduce the problem to the following: show that for a $n \times n$ matrix $A$ and a $n \times n$ invertible matrix $C$, $r(C^{-1}AC) = r(A)$.
@Huy If I can figure out how to prove this, I'm done
Huy
Huy
@Clarinetist: note that an invertible matrix has full rank
Huy
Huy
so the image of $C$ will have full dimension
so the image of $AC$ will have dimension of the image of $A$
and then applying $C^{-1}$ won't change it
Oh yeah, this is that basis change business
Okay, here's my proof sketch
15:18
@Clarinetist Thanks for notifying about the free Springer books, btw. There are over 10,000 free books available at Springer website. Amazing. I wonder whether this is temporary or not...
@happyEddie Np
So I claim $r(X) = r(P_X)$ to start
@Huy
To show this, I start by showing their column spaces are equal
This is obvious by definition of $P_X$, since $P_X = X(X^{T}X)^{-}X^{T}$, $C(P_X) \subset C(X)$, where $C$ is the column space
Furthermore, $X = P_X X$, so $C(X) \subset C(P_X)$, hence equality of column spaces and therefore ranks
By a theorem I proved months ago that I haven't touched, since $P_X$ is symmetric, it has a singular value decomposition of $p \times p$ matrices (assuming $X$ is $n \times p$), given by $P_X = P \cdot D(\lambda_i) \cdot P^{T}$, where $D(\lambda_i)$ happens to be the $p \times p$ diagonal matrix of the eigenvalues of $P_X$.
Observe that $$\text{tr}(P_X) = \text{tr}\left(P \cdot D(\lambda_i) \cdot P^{T}\right) = \text{tr}\left(D(\lambda_i)P^{T}P\right) = \text{tr}\left(D(\lambda_i)\right) = \sum_{1}^{p} \lambda_i$$
Huy
Huy
@Clarinetist: that "theorem" is called the spectral theorem and usually the process to get $P$ and $D$ is called diagonalization. :P
@Huy That's news to me. Of course, they don't refer to it by name in this stats text
:P
Huy
Huy
the spectral theorem and diagonalization itself are extremely useful tools
try to learn a bit about it when you have time. you'll likely use it again
Anyway, due to $P_X$ being idempotent, for a eigenvector $\mathbf{x}$ of $P_{X}$,
$$P_X \mathbf{x} = P_X^2 \mathbf{x} = P_X(P_X\mathbf{x}) = P_X(\lambda\mathbf{x}) = \lambda(P_X\mathbf{x}) = \lambda^2 \mathbf{x}$$
Obviously, $P_X\mathbf{x} = \lambda\mathbf{x}$, so $\lambda = \lambda^2$, which means that $\lambda$ is either $0$ or $1$.
Huy
Huy
15:27
@Clarinetist: I get what you're doing, but is there any reason you're doing it this way instead of following the answer you received in your question? just out of curiosity.
So we are justified in saying that $$r(D(\lambda_i)) = r(P^{-1}P_XP) = \sum_{1}^{p}\lambda_i$$
since the number of linearly independent columns is the number of columns that do not have all $0$s (since $D(\lambda_i)$ is diagonal) and $\lambda_i$ can only be either $1$ or $0$ @Huy
@Huy I quite frankly don't understand the approach in the answer very well, but I think I'm starting to realize the approach I'm doing and the answer I have are very much related. I just didn't know how to connect the pieces given what I know/remember
Huy
Huy
your current approach needs much deeper results (spectral theorem), the other one was basically just applying definitions, but if it doesn't matter to you, use whichever you like :P
actually, it's almost exactly the same argument, except that you assume you know the spectral theorem already, whereas the answer doesn't use it but just immediately diagonalizes (because it's easy in this particular case)
@Huy So now, what we need to do is prove that $r(P_X)$ is equal to the number of nonzero diagonal elements of $D(\lambda_i)$, equivalent to the sum of the $\lambda_i$. However, to get here, I have to show that $r(P_X) = r(P^{-1}P_XP)$, which is then equal to the sum of the $\lambda_i$ (as shown previously), and then everything is all fine and dandy
Huy
Huy
what the answerer gets in the last line is precisely the diagonalization of $P_X$
@Huy The book I have here says that this rank equality is a consequence of the following theorem: if $A$ is a $n \times n$ nonsingular matrix, then for any $n \times p$ matrix $B$, $R(AB) = R(B)$ and $r(AB) = r(B)$ ($R$ being the row space). Similarly, if $B$ is a $n \times n$ nonsingular matrix, then for any $m \times n$ matrix $A$, $C(AB) = C(A)$ and $r(AB) = r(A)$. I don't see how to use this
Huy
Huy
15:37
that is what I said earlier too (in a different way) :P
your basis transform matrix is non-singular
@Huy OH wait. So $r(P_XP) = r(P_X)$. Okay
@Huy and $r(P^{-1}P_XP) = r(P_XP) = r(P_X)$. WOOT!
Huy
Huy
exactly
So it's just repeating iterations of that theorem
Whew
Thanks @Huy. I really need to review some of this stuff again. It's been at least 3-4 years
Huy
Huy
15:39
you should try to understand precisely why that theorem holds
it is very very intuitive and not some "formula" you should try to remember
@Huy Well, let's see
@Huy I (due to statistics training) like working with column spaces more, so I'm going to prove the column space claim first
@Huy Obviously $C(AB) \subset C(A)$
Huy
Huy
btw, I'm guessing it's a stat book?
@Huy Yes
All of this intensive linear algebra I've been doing has been in a stats perspective
Honestly, if I could do this all over again, I would've done some substantial grad-level math training before I pursued this
I think most people don't care to think about proving claims that the courses just take for granted
Huy
Huy
unfortunately that's probably true
I don't really work that way, unfortunately. I can already tell you that one of my professors made an error in his lecture notes that no one has probably caught yet (which I'll bring up when I take his class if he hasn't changed the notes). I'm teaching myself the next class' material before taking it
Huy
Huy
15:43
ic
@Huy Anyway, obviously $C(AB) \subset C(A)$. Now $C(A) = C(ABB^{-1}) \subset C(AB)$. Done.
@Huy I've definitely heard of the Spectral Theorem, but I didn't know that was the Spectral Theorem
@Huy Given that what I'm doing here is going to be pretty much what I'm going to be doing in my stats program, do you have a text recommendation? Closest thing I've found is a statistically-oriented linear algebra text
It's been very difficult for me to find a text which substantially covers SVD, projection matrices, and generalized inverses other than maybe a page or so each of explanations
Huy
Huy
@Clarinetist: there are several versions of the spectral theorem, most of them are very similar though. the most basic one is that for any symmetric matrix, there exists an orthonormal basis for the whole vector space consisting of eigenvectors of the matrix.
@Clarinetist: unfortunately, in my first year all lectures were still in German, so I only know good German books / lecture notes
Dang, I should really learn German and/or French one of these days. Would be handy
Huy
Huy
:P
ask Ted when he's around, I think he even wrote an intro level book on linear algebra
"a geometric approach of linear algebra" or so maybe :P
Linear Algebra: A Geometric Approach - by Theodore Shifrin
bingo
@Clarinetist: the current prof teaching linear algebra is writing his lecture notes in English, so maybe those will be good after he's finished. but that'll probably be too late for you :P
16:01
@Huy Feel free to send them over anyway. Thanks. I have a feeling I'm going to need linear algebra throughout this entire program
Huy
Huy
@Clarinetist: https://people.math.ethz.ch/~kowalski/script-la.pdf
this is its current process, will probably get updated again around February (when the next term starts)
not sure if it's any good though
Thanks for your help @Huy! Finally figured out the proof!
Written down and everything
Huy
Huy
great!
@BalarkaSen Thank you
16:17
@Huy Hmm... one question for you. So $P_X = X(X^{T}X)^{-}X^{T}$. Any ideas on how to show $P_X$ is invariant no matter what $(X^{T}X)^{-}$ is?
Huy
Huy
@Clarinetist: what do you mean by that?
If I had two generalized inverses of $X^TX$, say $G_1$, $G_2$, this would be equivalent to showing $XG_1X^{T} = XG_2X^{T}$ @Huy
Is the boundary of a set always equal to the boundary of its closure?
Huy
Huy
@Clarinetist: are you 100% sure that you're using the generalized inverse here and not the Pseudo-inverse?
I'm not convinced it's independent of the choice of generalized inverse, but I'd have to check
also I have to leave again, so maybe you can figure it out
@Huy As far as I know, a generalized inverse of $A$ is any matrix $G$ satisfying $$AGA = A$$
I didn't know the term "pseudo-inverse" existed until I came on MSE asking questions. I've taken them to mean the same thing, but that's (quite likely) wrong
Huy
Huy
16:29
the pseudo-inverse requires more, as you can see on wiki
Huy
Huy
why is that funny
alright, gotta catch a bus. laters.
Thanks @Huy!
@Huy: I don't remember what that was to. My internet died and apparently it suddenly sent an hour later.
In my book there is the following part:

"the tangent vector of $\gamma$ is a principal vector of the surface $S$"

What does it mean that $\gamma$ is a **principal** vector?
16:45
Hello everyone!
Hello @user159870
@robjohn do you maybe have an idea about my question above?
@MaryStar Does the book define principal vector?
17:06
@MaryStar There must be some constraint, since not all tangents are principal vectors
well, the constraint is that it's the tangent vector of the curve gamma
(for some special curve gamma)
I found now that it is related to the Weingarten map.
A principal vector $t$ satisfies the relation $W(t)=\kappa t$, where $\kappa$ is the principal curvature.
@robjohn
hi @anon.
hi
what's cooking
17:14
@MaryStar Yes, they are eigenvectors of the Weingarten map. See Principal Curve
I see... Thanks!! :-)
@BalarkaSen netflix
dunno what netflex is.
it's one half of netflix and chill
that doesn't quite sound like an explicit definition.
17:28
well, it you know netflix and chill, and you know chill, you can figure out Netflix
17:52
@anon Here's a possible rigorous defn of ambiguity group. $X$ be an ambiguous figure. Let $Q_i$ be subsets of $X$ such that $\bigcup Q_i = X$ and each $Q_i$ are projection of possible and unambiguous objects $A_i$ in $\Bbb R^3$ to a certain hyperplane. Then you can align the $A_i$'s appropriately and project to realize $X$ as projection of a possibly disconnected but unambiguous/possible set in $\Bbb R^3$ with connected components being $A_i$.
The ambiguity group of $X$ is the collection of tuples $(f_1, \cdots, f_n)$ of isometries $f_i : \Bbb R^3 \to \Bbb R^3$ such that $\bigcup f_i(A_i)$ projected to that hyperplane gives the figure $X$ as before. Group operation is simply slotwise composition of isometries.
Pretty sure this works.
(e.g., take the tribar and $Q_1, Q_2, Q_3$ as in the paper)
 
1 hour later…
19:25
Hi, anybody here?
19:35
Looks like there are a few people here
hey there guys
anybody here?
Yes. Feel free to just ask a question, or bring up a topic
Thanks, I have an expression and I'd love some help with it
just a second while I find it
10^{-18}(4â‹…10^{16} -1) If you guys feel like it, could you simplify this for me please? Step by step, Im not sure whether my approach is right.
Anybody willing? If not its okay, just say so, so I don't wait here : )
You want to distribute the product, probably, and then simplify the exponents.
could you please post your approach? 10^{-18}â‹…4â‹…10^{16} and 10^{-18} â‹… -1 sounds like first step
but I' d like to see someone else's method
19:46
no, that's it. there's not really any other method
okay so the google calculator says the result is 4
but can I type this expression into my calculator as well? or should I simplify it first?
the result is not 4.
type it into google
and see for yourself : )
The google calculator might have screwed up the order of operations
okay so what is the result
lets say you are given this expression and you must get the result with the help of the calculator
how would you go about this
19:53
I would just multiply it all out by hand. There's no reason to use a calculator for that expression, and the calculator is likely to have trouble with the 10^{-18} anyway.
could you do that for me please?
to see what results you can get
No, you just need to do it yourself. If all you wanted is a numerical answer, why not just type it into wolfram alpha?
Yesterday I posted a question but I haven't gotten an answer, it's a pretty simple question I think, would it be ok to ask here?
Well, now that you are saying the calculator might have trouble, I need to see the by hand approach because I am not sure I'm doing it right.
Why not do it by hand and compare your result with wolfram alpha?
If it's wrong, maybe you could outline your steps for us and we could help you spot the error
19:57
Well, looks like I odnt have a choice
the result is 0.04
approx
now, how can I get that from a calculator
Hi all.
hey there
Looks like the end of the year comes up with a lot of math fruits to me :D
A NEW AWESOME RESULT IN PLACE!!!
@Daeto Some calculators, scientific for example, may allow to input powers. Otherwise you need to multiply each 10 by hand.
@Daeto And the result is precisely 0.04, not approximately.
I think I got it thanks, basically, the 1/10to the pow of 18 si so small
that I can just ignore it
20:05
I have a curve representing the error margin between an approximation and a function. How do I find the average error? I think I need to take the integral of the domain of the function and then divide by the range of the domain?
I used absolute value on the error margin so it would always be above 0
…apparently I have to go, sorry, nevermind
@Daeto If you are calculating the result of $10^{-18}\times 4 \times 10^{16}$ then you cannot ignore $10^{-18}$.
@SuperstarMonica Congrats!
@mikeonly thanks, thanks, thanks ... :-)
I meant I could ignore multiplying $10^{-18} by -1
Great days! I have a lot of fun!
20:24
Is anyone here really familiar with multivariable stats?
20:56
Nvm, got it figured out
hi @Clarinetist
@Clarinetist hi.. happy christmas
Could someone of you take a look at my question:
0
Q: Unit normal of the surface $S$

Mary StarWe have that $$\sigma (u,v)=\gamma (u)+v\delta (u)$$ and $$K=\frac{-(\dot\delta \cdot \textbf{N})^2}{EG-F^2}$$ I want to show that if $\gamma$ is a curve on a surface $S$ and $\delta$ is the unit normal of $S$, then $K = 0$ if and only if $\gamma$ is a line of curvature of $S$. $$$$ Doesn't t...

?
look at my hat
look at it
21:30
I recall there was a grad student at ETH here, anyone remembers who?
ETH Zurich.
A univeristy.
22:09
I think you want Huy
22:23
Not as I recall, but maybe.
Huy
Huy
22:34
is grad student MSc or PhD? if former, then I could help @AndrewThompson
Why is this expression 1 on wolfram? wolframalpha.com/input/…*Math-
@Huy, so the system is 2 year for msc, 3 years for phd?
Not 5 years for phd straight after undegrad?
Huy
Huy
@AndrewThompson: optimally 3 years BSc, 1.5 years MSc, 3-5 years PhD
Ohh, I see. Do you receive a salary/funding for the msc?
Huy
Huy
no, only PhD positions do
but if you have questions about the PhD program, I could maybe still help since I know a bit about it and some of my friends are doing it
22:38
is it possible to apply straight from bsc, for a 5-year program as in the US?
(and thanks for answering.)
Huy
Huy
I doubt it, maybe if you're very very very talented. Everyone I know who went from the ETH to the US finished their MSc at the ETH first.
I know some who went to Princeton and some to Harvard, but I don't know whether that's 5-year programs.
oh, i meant, going from another school to the phd program at ETH.
Huy
Huy
ah
I'm rather sure you have to finish the MSc and then apply for a PhD position.
I know a lot who came from other countries (not US though) and all of them had to finish the MSc first.
Alright, thanks a bunch!
Huy
Huy
but that could take only 1.5 years and the PhD could then only take 3 years in theory.
if you need an official response, I can search an e-mail address for you that will work
22:42
How do you live? Do you work a job in addition to the studies?
@robjohn I finalized an amazing generalization of a problem that I sent to a magazine and it was published. Trying to explore the generalization I got although I cannot say at the moment I have some brilliant ideas to get something more amazing.
Huy
Huy
@AndrewThompson: me personally or students in general?
No problem, I'll figure it out. Just brainstorming future ideas.
Both.
Surely wolfram is wrong: wolframalpha.com/input/… there's no way that expression is 1. What cancels with the sin(...) bit for example?
Huy
Huy
@AndrewThompson: students in general in their MSc or doing a PhD?
22:43
msc-students
Huy
Huy
@AndrewThompson: I'd say a lot (but very hard to guess how many, probably 50%) of MSc students have a TA position which pays a little bit, but not even remotely enough to live from. Apart from that, 90-95% of the students don't work and just focus on uni. Some probably get a scholarship and the others get money from their parents to live. As you probably already know, tuition costs are really low, so just the living costs are high.

Personally, I decided to move out of my parents' house last year and I didn't want any help financially, so I work as a TA and also as a teacher at high school.
Alright, thanks!
Huy
Huy
if you need more concrete numbers because money could be an issue, just tell me :P
@Huy: Are you sticking around for a PhD or teaxhinf full time after you get your masters?
Huy
Huy
@MikeMiller: I'm not good enough at maths for a PhD ;)
I'll probably make time to learn and relearn some more maths but I know I couldn't do well in research.
22:54
I hope you do whatever makes you happy, bud.
Huy
Huy
I hope so too.
@MikeMiller: have you seen Mulholland Dr., Twin Peaks or Blue Velvet (or anything else from Lynch that you would recommend)?
I have seen most everything he's done - but not twin peaks yet. Me and my buddy are slowly watching it. By slowly I mean we've watched 3 episodes in a quarter.
Everything's fantastic but I love Blue Velvet and eraserhead and Mulholland Dr (probably in that order).
Huy
Huy
ok, I'll check them out as soon as I have time.
I love Wild at heart.
I like that less than most of his movies. But I still am a big fan.
Absolutely love that scene in lost hoghway about tailgating.
23:05
Never got into Twin Peaks, but I thought it was pretty great... in a weird, surreal way.
Not sure I remember that one, but I remember the highway scene with this song [Chris Isaak - Wicked Game (Official Instrumental) ](youtube.com/watch?v=KCPJCCLengk)
Huy
Huy
I remember the Friends scene with that song.
This is a cool one in Lost Highway, too.
When we set $\theta=\psi(u)$, does it stand that $d\theta=d\psi(u)$ ?
Or is it $d\theta=\psi '(u)du$ ?
23:20
@Huy So what's your motivation for studying math in specific Huy, if you don't mind me asking?
Huy
Huy
@Jake1234: I started studying it because I found it interesting and couldn't really imagine what it was like to "prove everything".
Oh, right, it's definitely interesting. I feel the same way, just not sure I find it that interesting and fun, to imagine I would ever pursue a masters degree in it hah.
especially if I wasn't decided on pursuing a field like this professionaly, for many years.
Huy
Huy
@Jake1234: Well I'm already teaching at high school and I like doing that. And over here, to get a permanent job as a high school teacher, one must have a MSc in the subject they want to teach.
But then again, I probably don't find math that fun, it's mostly just interesting.
A MSc in pure math, to teach high school math?
Huy
Huy
Yes.
Plus a teaching diploma.
23:27
Wow, those are some good standards.
Huy
Huy
(that's what I'll do after I've finished my MSc)
Here, it's generally people with a masters in teaching, with notoriously poor standards, independant of what they teach in high school.
Huy
Huy
I think it really pays off. I'm always surprised when I talk to other maths teachers about maths how much they still know about it even though many of them didn't continue studying or restudying.
at least 3 of the maths teachers at my current high school even have a PhD. unfortunately, they did their thesis about stuff I have no idea of. :P
There was 0 people with a phd in my high school.
That's pretty cool.
What's the salary like for high school teachers in Switzerland?
Huy
Huy
@Jake1234: it depends on where you live. in Zurich, for a teacher with a teaching diploma, entry level salary starts at around $120k.
23:33
Wow.
Huy
Huy
the average is probably around $100k, in Switzerland.
That's huge though, quite a bit higher than average salary no?
Huy
Huy
yes, I think average salary in Zurich is around $60k.
(which is already way more than sufficient to live by yourself)
That's really great then.
Huy
Huy
I think having a MSc in the subject one wants to teach guarantees that the teacher at least really understands the stuff they need to teach and also a bit more. on average, they obviously (hopefully) understand a lot more.
where are you at right now? still in high school? @Jake1234
23:38
It sounds like a reasonable method - highly educated people should be the ones teaching.
I'm in university, Bc. 2nd year.
Huy
Huy
@Jake1234: maths?
yes.
Huy
Huy
I saw you are also on cog-sciences.SE. are you just interested in some psychology in your free time or how did that happen?
Hah, I got a bit curious about something, and thought I'd ask.
Huy
Huy
ah, ok
23:40
I thought it was interesting how pleasure/pain works, and asked some vague questions about... what is the relationship there.
Huy
Huy
are you in the US, @Jake1234?
Nope, Czech Republic.
Huy
Huy
I see.
So what's your focus anyway Huy?
Huy
Huy
@Jake1234: you see, over here the school system works a bit differently than in many countries: every kid goes to elementary school for roughly 6 years (age 7 to 12). after that, they have to choose between something called "secondary school" and something called "high school". the former has no entry requirements and takes 3 years. the latter has an entry test (which more than 50% fail) and takes 6 years.

everyone who has finished high school can go to any university in Switzerland. people who have finished secondary school usually do some apprenticeship and then work.
23:47
Oh right, that's pretty similar to how it is here. Thought elementary is 7 to 14, then high school with some focus/gymnasium (4 years) and "secondary school" (4 or 3 years).
MSc in teaching is still enough to teach at high schools here though.
Huy
Huy
I used to focus on theoretical physics, I took classes in functional analysis and diffgeo to prepare for quantum mechanics and general relativity which I also took. I was going to take QFT this year but it really didn't fit in my timetable so I decided to just learn some more maths. so now I'm just learning a bit about Lie groups/algebras and geometric topology.
what are you focusing on, @Jake1234?
Physics huh, I don't know anything at all about that. I'm not sure what I'll focus on, but right now it's general topology.
Though I'm not sure if I'll ever take something close towards fundamentals like this again.
Huy
Huy
hehe
the first two years of my BSc were pretty much just compulsory courses
only after that we could choose freely
The prof I have just covered so much in 1 semester... that I'm not sure I can handle this sort of stuff. He also keeps mentioning things that aren't really explained any simple books.
Huy
Huy
:(
hopefully other "fundamental" courses are different
23:55
I mostly have compulsory stuff too, but this is one thing I took extra.
Huy
Huy
ah, ok
topology was compulsory for me
It's only compulsory for the people who will go on to study analysis/algebra here I think.
Huy
Huy
what other courses did you have? real/complex analysis and abstract algebra are also compulsory courses here
I suppose the approach of this prof is really.. well, set theoretic. Lots of things like ultrafilters, uniform spaces.. they're not mentioned in a lot of the beginner books.
Yeah, same here, taking 3rd semester of real analysis at the moment.
There will be probability + stats, some differential geometry, there were 2 semesters of programming, I think the rest is usually free to choose, with respect to what you will focus on.
Shall I ask why this expression is = 1 on wolfram as a question? wolframalpha.com/input/…
00:00 - 15:0015:00 - 00:00

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