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20:00
you want an algebraic topology textbook?
May's book is quite good.
Bredon is also good.
By all means, Hatcher is good, he just writes too much in a somewhat disorganized fashion.
I did find that too
@Samuel: Eisenbud and Harris both write very well. You might also want to have Eisenbud's (not small) book on Commutative Algebra beside you.
like, the intro says you can skip chapter 0, which is supposed to just give you a sense of the flavour of the subject, but sometimes he'll refer you back there for a definition
which is weird because he'll redefine stuff other times
@Ted: Good thing I got that book last year for christmas
I confess that I've never read the book, however ... but I did buy it (and gave it away when I emptied out my library).
20:04
That's one of two good things about people retiring: free books and vacant positions.
Both Eisenbud and Harris try to have a more concrete, example-oriented approach to the subject, in my opinion.
@AndrewT: We have yet to see if I get replaced by an actual tenure-track faculty member. :(
that's absolutely necessary for me, I think. I don't want the cool facts held hostage for a ransom of 300 pages of abstract theory
But less torturing of students with me gone :P
I concur, @Samuel. I'm a big believer in examples and concrete computations/exercises.
definitely
Yup, I've recently learned the value of examples. Looking in hindsight at courses where I knew a lot of examples compared to those where I didn't, while I often got the same grade the difference in understanding of the material is huge.
I try to get the following habit: every time I learn a new definition, I should come up with one example where the definition holds and another in which it does not hold.
20:11
Excellent practice, @AndrewT. When I took point-set topology, Munkres was big on checking out all our various examples spaces for each property as it came along. Sometimes tedious, but really a good pedagogical thing.
Even in grad courses I used to try to assign lots of examples/computations for homework, as opposed to just abstract things.
Wait, Munkres was your topology-prof?
Yeah, actually. The book was in xeroxed form and appeared about a year and a half later. I also had Guillemin for Differential Topology, about a year and a half before that book appeared, and Mike Artin as he was starting to write his :) Now you know why I'm such a mess. :)
I'm going to TA elementary algebra next semester. I mostly give 'challenging' theoretical exercises, as they already have pre-assigned a bunch of computations.
Artin's book has wonderful exercises, I think. I don't know what book your professor will be using.
We use Fraleigh.
20:14
Sigh. Not my favorite, but a standard choice.
I think its alright. After our algebra exam me and some fellow students went to the library with some beers and read all the historical notes.
They let you into the library with beers?
(Note that I'm not calling you a nerd ... yet.)
Yesh, or at least the building. One of the lecturerooms is a bar once a week, Norway is fairly relaxed in that regard.
Hmm, I think that would have been fun to teach with martinis :P
There is an odd drinking culture of drinking a lot before exams which I have yet to understand.
20:17
In my city it is after exams
that we drink
Here its both.
That makes a little more sense, dREaM.
No wonder there is such high alcoholism in Norway, Andrew :P
Where are you from, @dREaM?
Mexico
Ah, mexican exchange students tend to be surprised of the drinking culture here. (But they always adapt perfectly within a couple of months.)
20:19
what country are you from?
See you guys a bit later ... Have to get ready for my trip.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helge_Tverberg Norwegian mathematicians even have drinks in their hands at wikipedia pics
See you!
@AndrewT: If I don't see you before, happy new year!
Hi/bye @Clarinet.
Have fun @Ted
20:21
@TedShifrin Same to you, safe trip!
I'm coming to your part of the country tomorrow, @Clarinet.
Thanks, Andrew.
@Ted Have fun with the snow :)
@DanielFischer do you know how I can get my stackoverflow account unbanned ? I'm surprised it even happened in the first place, I have a positive upvote-downvote ratio.
hmmm, an advanced exponential integral dragged me into hell in the last hours ...
Some more research is needed (half of the way or so is done)
@dREaM Question ban? Rather, rate-limited?
20:32
@DanielFischer yes, question ban, it says they no longer accept questions from me.
none of them
@dREaM Does it say something like "wait 7 days" or so?
no
@dREaM Hmm. Have you some deleted downvoted questions?
maybe, let me check
I haven't asked anything for a while
I don't know
I think I don't have enough rep to see
@dREaM Hang on a bit, gotta do something elsewhere for a bit.
20:37
sure, thanks btw
20:51
Have a safe trip, @TedShifrin!
21:08
@dREaM You have two deleted and downvoted questions. Together with the two non-deleted downvoted questions, and the zero-score questions, that puts you below the threshold. But according to a very educated guess, if you polish your not well-received questions - as mentioned in the help centre page - and get an upvote or two that would probably get you unbanned. [Maybe you need more than two upvotes, nobody knows without reading the source.]
So polish and hope.
Hello everyone
I just released version 0.1.0 of MathEdit http://kasperpeulen.github.io/mathedit/

Some features are:
* Doesn't conflict with markdown syntax anymore. So you can safely type markdown and mathjax together (like in stackexchange)
* It doesn't flicker (ever!) the live preview if you type LaTeX.
* Saves your work to the local browser cache
The dot product and Cross product of two smooth curves is also smooth. Or not?
If you want some feature or found some bug, let me know :)
Does anyone know?
21:18
@DanielFischer thanks.
@dREaM Good luck.
@DanielFischer @dREaM do you know the answer of my question chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/26467814#26467814 ?
@user159870 so you have two functions $\mathbb R \rightarrow \mathbb R^3$
?
@user159870 By that you mean you have smooth $c_1, c_2 \colon I \to \mathbb{R}^3$ and wonder whether $t \mapsto c_1(t) \times c_2(t)$ and $t \mapsto c_1(t)\cdot c_2(t)$ are also smooth? They are.
yeah, it's pretty straightforward
oh yeah, curves have $I$ as domain :|
yes, because the projections onto each coordinate are smooth
yeah, so the curve is smooth iff the projections are smooth
21:33
At math.stackexchange.com/questions/1590177/smooth-functions is it correct to consider that $\sigma$ is smooth? @DanielFischer @dREaM
1
Q: $r(X) = r(P_{X}) = \text{tr}(P_X)$

ClarinetistI would like to prove $r(X) = r(P_{X}) = \text{tr}(P_X)$, $r$ denoting the rank, $X \in M_{n \times p}(\mathbb{R})$, and $$P_{X} = X(X^{T}X)^{-}X^{T}$$ where $(X^{T}X)^{-}$ is a generalized inverse of $X^{T}X$. I don't believe I know the machinery to prove this. But here's what I do know that mi...

@DanielFischer so we do not have to assume it? Why is it so?
@user159870 You do assume it, don't you? "We consider a smooth $\sigma$."
Yes, that is what I tried to solve the exercise. So it is correct to assume it. Or not? @DanielFischer
21:42
@user159870 $S$ is by assumption a smooth surface. So it has smooth (local) parametrisations. You take $\sigma$ to be such.
Why is $S$ a smooth surface by assumption ? @DanielFischer
@user159870 Because otherwise it makes no sense to speak of "smooth functions on $S$".
21:57
Hello, let R = k[X_1,...,X_n] be the ring of polynomials of n variables over the field k and let f: R -> R be an isomorphism that is identity on k. How to see that f preserves total degree of polynomials?
I've been trying to figure out the following problem for weeks, and while I've made progress, I'm ultimately stumped.
Consider a probability distribution in $x$ and $y$ which is in fact uniformly distributed on a circle, centered at the origin, or radius $r$.
What's the marginal distribution of just $x$?
I can do this by writing the distribution as a uniform distribution in the angle $\theta$.
One then uses $x = r \cos(\theta)$ to get $dx = -r \sin(\theta)d\theta$ to find $P(x) \propto 1 / \sqrt{1 - (x/r)^2}$.
That's all well and good, but is there some way to write the 2D distribution in such a way that we can find the distribution of $x$ by integrating out the $y$ variable?
hi @DanielF
@Clarinet: I thought we had already discussed your question on rank of the projection matrix. Certainly when the columns of $X$ are linearly independent, you know what to do.
Does anone know why this code always gives different results?
@DanielF: With regard to this question, I don't know what to do when the OP uses the "not in English" cop-out. :)
22:17
@Ted: I stop responding and move on
@TedShifrin Tell them that you also can read French, Spanish, German, Russian? Or what Mike says, put them on ignore.
The question intrigued me. I was puzzled that in my all-too-long life I'd never run into it, if it were really true. And then I thought for about 5 seconds.
@DanielFischer @daniel , do you have any idea why my code gives different answers?
@MikeM: Have we built a wall to keep out the global warming yet?
is it possible the c++ set adds the same element twice?
22:19
We have that $N$ is perpendicular to the tangent vector $t=\gamma'$ and to the unit normal $n$.
To find the relation of $N$ with the binormal $b$ do we do the following?

$n,b,\gamma'$ consist the orthonormal basis of $\mathbb{R}^2$, so

$$N=c_1 n+c_2 b +c_3 \gamma' \Rightarrow N\cdot N=c_1 n\cdot N +c_2 b\cdot N +c_3 \gamma'\cdot N \Rightarrow 1=c_2 b\cdot N \Rightarrow N \parallel c_2b \Rightarrow N \parallel b$$
You should be able to reason that by basic geometry without any formulas, @MaryStar. You mean $N\|b$, of course.
@dREaM, I am not a programmer. But have you reinitialized or erased all your variables before you start it again?
I had problems with Mathematica many times when I failed to do that.
hmm let me check, thanks.
@dREaM What sort of different answers?
integer results
Do you mean to reason it as follows?

Knowing that $N$ is perpendicular to the tangent vector $t=\gamma'$ and to the unit normal $n$ and that $b$ is also perpendicular to the tangent vector $t=\gamma'$ and to the unit normal $n$, we conclude that $N\|b$.

@TedShifrin
22:23
1097550
I get 1097550 plus or minus 1000
Right, @MaryStar.
@dREaM Then you probably invoke undefined behaviour somewhere. Overstepping array bounds or so.
Ok... Thank you!! :-) @TedShifrin
yeah, I think I am overstepping an array bound, although it shouldn't, did you see the code?
lol, I fixed it, my bad
You where 100% right
I was overstepping an array bound.
@DanielF for the win ... yet again!
22:29
the difficulty indicator in project euler isn't very good for finding easy problems
Difficulty level is often very much user-dependent.
yeah, most of the tedious problems are listed as easy, while they are not so easy for me
22:42
@Kasper I have a feature request... but I want to chat about it before I file an issue so I can articulate it properly
I woke up at 4 in the morning.
@Ted Yeah, when $X$ has full-column rank, it's super easy. I don't know how to deal with when $X^{T}X$ isn't invertible, though
The weather outside is disgusting. Glad to be home.
Nope @Ted.
@Clarinet: Officially you want SVD, but think about replacing $X$ with basis vectors in the first $r$ columns and then zeroes in the remaining columns. Then you should know pretty easily what the pseudoinverse of $X^\top X$ will be.
It doesn't look like I'm going to get feet and feet of snow and blizzards as in my previous visits to Michigan.
22:58
We had some half-assed snow last night. A quarter of the porch covered by a quarter of an inch. Etc.
That sounds like the amount of snow that puts Georgia in paralysis for a week, @MikeM.
Ignoring your feeble attempt at Xeno :)
You're ignorjng my feeble attempt at it? I don't get it
The pseudo-geometric sequence ...
23:03
Oh... Meh.
Well, my head and mouth hurt from dental work, so my humor is worse than usual.
And I need to pack soon.
@BenjaminR go ahead
Okay, so you know how, in md you can have 'blocks'
@Ted: Sorry to hear that. :(
Getting people to give talks for the graduate student seminar is pulling teeth.
either code/monospaced font blocks or block quotes
23:06
right
And these usually have nice little off-colour backgrounds behind them, right?
Is there any way of either supporting MathJax inside those, or creating a new type of 'block' which would?
ah I see
Because for formatting, having centralised, highlighted blocks is very useful
Are you in charge of organizing, @MikeM?
@BenjaminR I think that should work, let me try
23:08
Woohoo!
Do you want me to file an issue?
would be good idea, then I can track their progress with you etc.
okay will do it now, champ
thanks!
Yeah @Ted. 5 confirmed speakers + me.
Need 10 for the quarter.
On varieties of topics, but at levels appropriate for general audience?
@BenjaminR just did some quick bootstrap css
I think we should reserve the code block, for proper mathjax escaping
23:18
@Kasper what about adding a extra $ operator or looking for a new operator which interrupts escapes in between the range of the expression?
@Ted: Yup. I'm really angling to get equal pure/applied representation this quarter.
Good goal.
What about adding a darker background to the quote block maybe?
Or at least "more than 1 applied talk".
that could work I guess, but I think sometimes people want to some meta stuff, like, writing something about how to do something in LaTeX

and then also showing a LaTeX preview

then those code blocks are really handy
but I could also style the blockquote thing more, for a better highlighted block right?
23:20
Yeah
I definitely think people need/want the meta stuff inside a code block, I don't mean to break that, just interrupt it between operators/delimiters
Very hard some of the stuff I attend now ... (maybe I should wait for some hours to come up with new ideas)
can I pm you a link to a stackedit document of mine to give you a use case?
sure
not sure I know how pm works in stackexchange
that's read-only so no worries
basic html is also supported
but that usecase should now work in mathedit. I only use a slightly different version of markdown
or do you want to render math symbols inside of that?
23:35
I tried to get another nap, but this time I woke up at 5 in the morning. Damn.
@Kasper - yup
I (need) want math symbols inside blocks.
next to formatted text
do they work for you know in blockquotes (at mathedit)?
I think that should work now
Yup those block quotes look brilliant.
but also math is displayed inside it right? or you want also a different kind of block?
If that would be possible, yes.
I guess the alternative is just to use html commands to change font to monospaced
23:38
that could work
Would there be a shortcut to doing so, like beginning the paragraph with > for block quotes etc
but maybe you use : instead
which gives you monospaced font without restrictions in a block
(perhaps that is outside the scope of what you can do, and would need to be added to Markdown Extra or something)
things like that are surely possible
markdown is extendible
I mean, COULD there be shortcut created
yes
but I need to think a bit what would be the best way
Awesome.
23:42
<div style="font-family: monospace;">
hello $\to$ there $\mathbb{R}$
</div>
try this btw in mathedit
that should work now already, only a bit terse to write of course
oh typo, it should have been div at the end
yup that works.
I actually give maybe a bit too much freedom of the math you can inject
you can even inject svg lol :P
OH WOW that is amazing.
23:48
hehe
So both the block quote variant and the monospace block variant are great, just need a shortcut prefix
yup
Think of the awesome math publications you could write in it
save as gist, and then share with the world
You could generate diagrams in sag!
svg damn auto-correct
23:50
yeah, I'm also thinking about supporting handwritten math/pictures/diagrams
there are tools to export handwritten stuff (with bamboo/ surface pro) to svg on the fly
Now all we need is a mobile app which will take hand written symbolic expressions and export them directly into it ;D
And an sag converter which would do the same ;D
SVG!
that's it, auto-correct, you and me are done-zo.
I think with good shortcuts, maybe you should be able to write math faster with typing then writing
but with things like graphs or something, probably handwriting is always faster
Sure, but sometimes you don't know the LaTeX symbol, and MathPad add doesn't have complete symbol support
and Detexify is almost useless.
I'm going to merge this other project I have to mathedit
that should make typing math much faster
and also easy explorable
not for every use case, but I think for a lot of use cases
@MikeMiller: Maybe I actually have an idea. If $n\alpha$ is the given homology class in $H_2(\Bbb{CP}^2)$, consider the Poincare dual $\gamma$ in $H^2(\Bbb{CP}^2)$. One can pick a map $f : \Bbb{CP}^2 \to \Bbb{CP}^\infty$ representing $\gamma$ upto homotopy. Cellular approximate to get a map $g : \Bbb{CP}^2 \to \Bbb{CP}^2$ in the homotopy class. We know (by Yoneda) that $\gamma \in H^2(\Bbb{CP}^2)$ is $g^*(\hat{\alpha})$ where $\hat{\alpha}$ is the Poincare dual of $\alpha \in H_2(\Bbb{CP}^2)$.
So if I can just choose $g$ to be smooth, I can homotope it to be transverse to $\Bbb{CP}^1 \subset \Bbb{CP}^2$ (which represents $\alpha$), and $g^{-1}(\Bbb{CP}^1)$ is then going to be a manifold, and the fundamental class would be Poincare dual to $\gamma$ which is Poincare dual to $n\alpha$, so $g^{-1}(\Bbb{CP}^1)$ represents $n\alpha$.
But I am not sure if I can choose $g$ to be smooth. Also, I do not know how to compute genus of $g^{-1}(CP^1)$.
23:56
works like this, press and hold = to get all the = variants
Hmm, I will investigate some good mobile drawing apps
cool
that looks super brill
SUPER FANTASTICH!
haha thanks
haha what :P
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