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22:00
I see @MikeM has returned to shower us in his ghoulish and warlock-filled charm :)
How can we know what kind of surface is a specific surface?
Do we look at the parametrization? Or at the first fundamental forms of the surface?
@Lembik, @Huy: We had a discussion about this determinant bound in here a few weeks ago. It's related to Hadamard matrices.
@user159870 What do you mean, "what kind of surface"?
@TedShifrin oh that's interesting.. Any bound like $m^{m/c}$ for some constant $c$ would be interesting
If it is a quadric cone, a paraboloid of revolution, a hyperbolic cylinder. @TedShifrin
I'm trying to remember who was bringing up the question.
22:02
@TedShifrin I am sorry to disturb you Prof. Some help regarding Grad school applications if possible !
@user159870: Thinking about cross-sections and just experience. It helps to remember your common sense from two-dimensional conic sections, too.
@Mambo: Not sure if I can help. What's the question?
Subject GRE didn't go well
what percentile, @Mambo?
50%
Does for example a paraboloid of revolution have a specific form, so that we recognize it? @TedShifrin
22:04
I have good academic record.
That's not horrible. Most of my students in the US didn't do too much better. Too much competition from the very top students at Harvard, Princeton, MIT, and China.
@user159870: Surfaces of revolution need to have symmetry about the axis of revolution. How do you see that?
I have been doing my masters project for the past one and half years.
I have done several summer projects
@Mambo: It may mean you won't get into the top 10 or 20 schools, but that's not for sure.
Letters of recommendation, particularly from someone the admissions committee might know, are most important.
How do they usually evaluate phd candidates
I am interested to pursue phd in a good analysis group
That's different in different departments, so I can't answer that universally. But GRE subject test does matter, grades, and particularly letters of recommendation that say something specific. Plus it helps if there's someone in the department who's interested in having you as a student.
Analysis is a huge, huge subject.
22:09
Harmonic analysis and Functional analysis
Can you write in your statement of purpose about specific problems in those fields that you've worked on or explored?
Hi all
Guten Abend, @Danu.
I'm not sure if you still think I'm German, or know that I'm living in Germany ;)
I don't think you're German, but you've made it abundantly clear that you live in Germany :) And we've established I don't know Dutch :D
22:10
Does anyone here have a lot of experience with the tikz-cd package?
(in TeX)
Pas moi.
You're not a big TeX user? Or just not of commutative diagrams?
Yes @Danu
I have minimal experience with it.
I've typeset four textbooks and countless homeworks and exams in TeX, so the latter.
22:11
What do you need?
heya @Andrew :)
I'm working with some semi-advanced diagram.
Hi @TedShifrin!
In particular, I'm in need of using crossing over
@TedShifrin I have written a draft.
22:12
Then I'm not your guy :)
As you may know, this causes a need for drawing some lines "articificially late"
because the order matters for crossing over.
Now, this technique gives me problems.
@Mambo: The more specific you can be about particular problems and things that you've worked on, the better.
In particular, something as simple as the following is failing to compile:
Can you please review my sop ?
@TedShifrin Don't have a clue. Can you help?
22:13
\begin{tikzcd} A & \ar[from=l] B \end{tikzcd}
Think about slices perpendicular to the axis of revolution, @user159870.
(this is just a minimal working example to test out the functionality of the from key)
@Mambo Any clue?
Sorry, not that familiar with tikz. You will likely have luck at tex.SE.
@Mambo: I've been drowning in my own former students' statements and letters of recommendation. I don't want to volunteer to help any more right now.
this is just tikz-cd not fully-fledged tikz.
22:14
Hi @Ted.
Still, TeX.SE seems to be a good resource, @Danu.
Heya, @MikeM ... how's my favorite baboon? :)
Confused, upset, and belligerent. So par for the course.
@TedShifrin Of course.
Yup, sounds like you, @MikeM.
22:15
I'm a regular in their chat room, too :P
Unless you mean my roommate. He's now on his way home.
Since I started typing my algebraic topology notes...
TikZ is life.
@TedShifrin Ok
No, he doesn't look like a baboon, @MikeM.
Just use AMScd. :)
22:16
AMScd won't do diagonal arrows, among other things.
@Mambo This doesn't use tikz-cd
Mike Spivak's LAMSTeX used to do it.
@MikeMiller tikz-cd is really good.
You should try it if you haven't already.
It comes with fully customizable arrows, pretty much.
I switched from xy when I discovered it does hookrightarrow much nicer.
Good thing I never use doagonal arrows, and never want to.
Even I needed them in my linear algebra book once, @MikeM ... so I put the arrows in in Adobe Illustrator :P
22:18
In choosing an advisor I went through the department one by one and asked if they needed me to draw commutative diagrams. Went for the first one who said no.
I also prefer to use Illustrator, yeah.
\begin{tikzcd}
A \arrow[dr] & B \arrow[dl, crossing over] \\
C & D
\end{tikzcd}
wow, shockingly, I just realized this is a Balarka-free zone.
@Mambo No, like I said, this won't do.
I'm in a more complicated setup where I need to draw the line that crosses over later.
I.e. I have to use the from key.
22:19
@TedShifrin, may I ask what GPA is considered to be 'competitive' at an average US grad program?
I don't know the answer, @Andrew. Average is very vague, too.
@Ted: I got annoyed at him earlier. I think I chased him off.
Average would be a rather low-ranked school.
Aha @MikeM
@AndrewThompson Probably better than 2.0 is always a good aim, no?
He oh?ed me
22:21
@Danu: You'd better say better than 3.5, for starters.
A 2.0 is the minimum one can have to graduate with a degree.
@Danu Haha, yeah. In Norway we have a 5.0-system, and I found that the conversion to US grades was more generous than I thought.
Oh, lol nvm it goes up
Hahaha, I forgot about that!
Even though my GPA for my bachelor's was counted the same way. Stupid!
Most places in the US a 4.0 is the top grade.
@Ted: So you're saying if would indeed be good to aim to have better than a 2.0.
Yeah, sorry, so it'd be >3.0 that I'd recommend.
For "average"
22:22
I wish they let me finish the math uni in one year instead of 3. 3 years? It's too much!
>3.9 probably for good schools
If one's math average is only a 3.0, one shouldn't be going to a good graduate school.
Also depends how many graduate courses one's taken, how one's done in them, etc.
Your math average should be unreasonably high, probably.
working on a mathjax editor, that doesn't flicker while you are writing math:
http://kasperpeulen.github.io/mathedit/
These are really very high GPAs
22:23
Grades in Norway converted to US,

A - 4.0
B - 3.66
C - 3.0
D - 2.66
E - 2.0
F - fail.
I had essentially a 4.0 (one B in a math course) and didn't get in everywhere I applied many years ago. And my GRE score was perfect, too. Just saying ... There are other ingredients.
@Andrew: So do they really give lots of Cs?
Yes, it is almost always the average grade.
Grades have got very inflated in US colleges.
I see.
So that's why you're converting to a US B for that.
My impression (though I hVent served on many admissions committees) is that one of the most important factors is your letters. There are grade and GRE cutoffs, but past that, what really matters is more subjective...
I can show you the grading scale for my Calc2-class, that was funny.
22:25
@TedShifrin Professor Ted you're really brilliant then!
@TedShifrin I had similar experiences...
GPA 3.96; not-very-great GRE but not terrible either and it didn't go too well for me, let's say ;)
@Danu Ignore if have seen already tex.stackexchange.com/questions/102667/…
They follow strict textguidelines, A is 'outstanding'. For msc thesis A is 'an obvious research talent we should strive to keep.' or something.
@Danu: I'm not feeling sorry for myself. I did get into some excellent schools; but also was rejected by one. I think I applied to only 5 or 6.
@Mambo Thanks for your help. I've found out that I am having some anomalous error.
22:27
@Danu: It's good to realize you're anomalous.
May I ask you if you all with these scores can solve anything by Ramanujan?
I wonder what score one should have for excelling in solving the integrals and series by Ramanujan ...
@TedShifrin I did feel slightly sorry for myself. I only applied for 4 and got a 0/4 :P
Oh yikes, @Danu. Sorry.
I did get into every place that I applied to in Europe, though... Quite strange.
These days people tend to apply to lots more.
22:29
@TedShifrin May I request any suggestions on universities ?
@TedShifrin I only heard that afterwards.
Most of my advisees are applying to something like 10, @Danu, I think.
Yeah, oh well...
And one wants to be sure to have a decent "safe" school or two.
22:30
But the European schools were safe for you.
I'm not sure if the being-European thing has anything to do with it; the system being different and all...
Grade distribution from my calc2.
Yikes @Andrew!
We should be doing that more for our calc classes.
@TedShifrin I don't know. They're the best schools in the continent here (so that's top 20 world wide according to most rankings, though I realize those don't mean much...)
22:31
Either the students were very lazy or the teacher/testing were terrible.
Then maybe I wouldn't see an analysis stufent in the tutoring center looking for help evaluating $$\lim_{x \to 0} \frac{\int_0^x e^{t^2}dt}{x}.$$
@MikeM: I agree that we've gotten way too soft (too afraid of lawsuits, etc. ... or guns), but I wouldn't advocate 60% F's.
An analysis student? Like a junior/senior?
Neither. The tests was completely standard, exercises you should be able to do. The lecturer has gotten a lot of heat for that, but I agree with him.
Why didn't you get an A, @Andrew? :D
Huy
Huy
I don't understand those grading systems. :(
22:32
I had everything correct in terms of answers, forgot to mention some convergence-condition. I find the result to be fair.
Yes. I should have told them to GTFO, because it's for lower division students, anyway, and also possibly to switch majors. Didnt think to until later.
Well, @MikeM, you know full-well that students (sadly) do not learn that part of the FTC in Calc I/Calc II, but, by Analysis time? :(
Gjennomsnittlig karakter = average grade. As you can see, they do not count the fails :)
That's absurd, @Andrew; of course, the fails should be included in the average.
Unless a fail doesn't enter into the student's GPA?
how good is 8.4 /10 GPA
22:34
There's a big system in terms of student loans.
^heavily depends on the school
We really can't answer that, @Mambo. It depends what the average is for your department/university.
So fails are to be considered as 'didn't do the course at all'.
And if they fail to do so sufficiently many times they have to pay back their loans quicker and stuff.
Aha, @Andrew. Better to fail than to get an E, then. So that skews the results. Students who're doing pooly do their best to fail.
@Ted: I was very, very displeased by this student.
22:35
Ohno, you have three shots.
And if you fail the loaningservice will be displeased.
Yeah, but there's a point (with the first try especially) where you clearly throw in the towel.
There are lots of upper division students here who almost shouldn't even be lower division students.
That was my complaint about some of the UGA math majors, too, @MikeM.
And then there are the ones who're better than some graduate students :P
Hence... maybe 60% Fs isn't such a bad idea.
Huy
Huy
I remember when our Physics 1 prof decided to do a mock-up exam and the average of over 300 students was roughly 4 out of 50+ points. That's when we realized shit just got real.
22:36
Yes, well, the results were like this four semesters in a row, both for the main exam and the redo-exam for those who failed,
Can I write mails to professors before applying ?
so I have my doubts.
Would it be inappropriate?
@Mambo: Don't spam them, but if there are faculty whose work you've looked at and are interested in, yes.
Again, make things specific.
Just saying vaguely "I would love to come to be your student" won't help.
Ciprian imports IMO winners to study here, and beyond them there are some outstanding students I can probably count on one hand. Then there's a good number of good students; and then the remaining half or so make me cry.
Huy
Huy
22:38
@MikeMiller is that undergrads?
@MikeM: Are you talking about pure math majors only, or all the math-type majors put together?
What are math-type majors?
Yes. Even if I had something to say about the quality of my colleagues, I wouldn't.
This is a more common distribution in Norway I think.
22:39
@Danu: Here a lot of schools have applied math, math-econ, math-actuarial, math-CS, math-... majors.
Is harmonic analysis not so actively taken up in research ?
@Ted: It's the people who enroll in upper div courses. So a range, yes. This does not change my complaint.
@Mambo: There are lots of people doing harmonic analysis from the context of Lie groups and geometry, not just "straight analysis."
@MikeM: Even at Berkeley and MIT the percentage of math majors who want to go get a Ph.D. is very low (10-20% perhaps). So keep that in mind.
A surface of revolution is obtained by rotating a plane curve around the axis of revolution. Correct?
What are 'slices'?
@TedShifrin
My phone seems to have put Mambo oh ignore somehow? A few minutes ago I was seeing his/her messages and now I don't...
22:41
@TedShifrin That low? Damn...
Slices are what you get when you intersect with a plane, in this case perpendicular to the axis of revolution, @user159870.
why so
@Ted: I am aware. What I'm demanding isn't excellence. It's the bare minimum of prerequisite they supposedly had to sign up for the course.
Why so what, @Mambo? A lot of harmonic analysis is about geometric questions.
AKA, lower div math and the notion of proof.
22:42
Well, @MikeM, you sound like me ranting about some of my probability and diff geo students, but it wasn't half the classes.
I'm not talking about proofs. I'm talking about knowing the chain rule and basic linear algebra, say.
The only upper div I've personally TA'd is xomplex analysis; the star students there were the engineers, not so much the math ones.
Huy
Huy
@TedShifrin I feel like over here a lot of them do, like 40%. But then again pretty much all of my friends are geniuses.
Presumably the best math ones took the graduate version, @MikeM.
@TedShifrin about low percentage !
What did you do in your Complex Analysis course, @Mike?
22:44
The most exciting thing we did was the residue theorem (and the prerequisite Cauchy stuff that leads up to it). Keep in mind this is a 10 week course that is intended to get some engineers to come to it, too.
Okay, so no Riemann mapping etc?
Huy
Huy
@MikeMiller: You should see Salamon's complex analysis course for engineers.
At the parametrization of the surface should one coordinate, the one that corresponds to the axis of revolution, be constant? @TedShifrin
I see. Just did complex analysis this semester, liked it alright.
22:45
You told me about this. he seems like a beautiful man.
Huy
Huy
and of course he does Riemann mapping theorem. :D
Yes, @user159870.
My report card tells me I should be doing analysis. I'm offended.
Residue theorem isn't easy to prove.
I love analysis, @Andrew. What's your issue? :P
hi @Jyrki.
22:46
When $\operatorname{char}k=p>0$
I like it, I just like algebra more.
I like geometry more, never algebra :D
Algebra is just too hard.
Ohh, that reminds me, I can look up the statistics for my complex analysis course
25% failed. That's a lot for an upper div course.
22:47
@MikeM: Mike Artin told me many years ago that he went into algebraic geometry because topology and analysis were too easy.
I believe it. We have different motivations. :)
And I picked complex diff geometry because the overlap of so much mathematics intrigued me.
so is a parametrization of a surface of revolution of the form $r(u,v)=(f(u,v), g(u,v), h)$? @TedShifrin
No, @user159870.
If you rotate a curve about the $z$-axis, what shape do you see when you set $z=\text{constant}$?
@FrankScience Say what?
See two lines down.
Huy
Huy
22:50
3
Oh.
Of course, there are various notions of residue, too. Griffiths/Harris talk about at least three.
$z=\text{constant}$ a Line. Correct? @TedShifrin
No, @user159870.
What are your examples of surfaces of revolution?
It's almost a tragedy to stay away from the stuff of Ramanujan, or anything similar to it, that is if you're interested in the art of mathematics.
22:56
Isn't $z=\text{constant}$ a Line perpendicular to the axis?
An example is $r(u,v)=(u,v,u^2+v^2)$.
@TedShifrin
My uneducated opinion is that I disagree, @OFFSHARING.
Ramanujan was simply a genius flinging his talents around, in sharp contrast to the collaberative effort math is today.
(Keep in mind, uneducated opinion.)
No, it's the plane perpendicular, @user159870. So, in your example, you get $u^2+v^2=c$. What does that tell you?
@AndrewThompson: Do I have your email? If not, can you shoot me one? My email is in my profile.
Sure, just don't give out my real name.
Okay... Bjorn Bjornsen.
22:58
I think I was in on the secret once, but I've long since forgotten :)
@AndrewThompson Sure, that's OK. But it's less important he did it alone or not, the beauty of that mathematics remains the same (at least to me). It's like visiting the heaven. Try some of his stuff and convince yourself.
That stuff is incredibly deep, profound, amazing, outstanding ...
There you go, @Mike.
Are there any fundamental prerequisites to learn measure theory? I've an ok grasp on some countable set operations, have developed the integral of regulated functions (as limits of uniformly converging step functions) and looked at continuous maps between normed spaces.
have you done some point-set topology, @Khallil? I usually recommend that.
@Khallil If you've had a course in real analysis you should be fine.
@TedShifrin: As an actual prerequisite, or just something similarly flavored but often easier to grasp?
23:02
To help one be successful. The students (including some grad students) have generally thanked me.
$u^2+v^2=c$ is a circle. Correct? @TedShifrin
One does way more fiddling with sets in point-set topology than in a standard undergraduate real analysis course.
Yes, @user159870. Do you see that when you rotate a curve about the $z$-axis, you'll always get circles when you look at slices $z=\text{constant}$?
I'll have done that in the next few weeks as the second half of the 'Metric Spaces' module, @TedShifrin.
Hmm, like what, @Khallil?
@user159870, it is often also helpful to look at slices perpendicular to the other axes, too. For example, to distinguish between $z=x^2+y^2$ and $z^2=x^2+y^2$ or $z^2=x^2+y^2\pm 1$.
I didn't learn things like limit of filters, ultrafilters when I was learning general topology. Now I need to take some time to learn these topics.
23:06
I've still never learned that stuff, @Frank :)
"Need" is up for debate.
@TedShifrin what do you mean?
All of those examples have circles when you slice perpendicular to the z-axis. How do you decide what the surfaces are? You have to look at other slices.
See you folks later ...
To see if it is a surface of revolution we always have to look if $z=\text{constant}$ is a circle.
To say which surface it is, do we have to take for example $x$ to be constant? @TedShifrin
23:25
Aw. I've been toying with an approach to a problem for a while now, but it can't possibly work. Darn.
@OFFSHARING I don't think I have. I will take a look.
@MikeMiller :'(
Branched double cover of S^2 branched at 2 points embedded in CP^2 such that inclusion map factors through the covering. Too much to hope for.
Sorry, the inclusion map factors through the covering? Then it's not much of an inclusion map, is it?
I'm not entirely sure, @Ted but there's a massive section on topology.
23:34
redo: [...] inclusion map is homotopic to one that factors through the covering.
The motivation for this comes from how we systematically remove singularities of disk in the proof of disk theorem (by considering coverings) + this is what happens in $\Bbb{RP}^2$:
take the generator $a$ of $H_2(\Bbb{RP}^2)$. Ignore that $2a = 0$ for a while. $2a$ is represented by the 2 fold cover $S^1 \to S^1$. We consider a little circle in the attached $D^2$ representing $2a$ (which is nullhomotopic, 'course, but ignore this), and the inclusion of that is homotopic to one which factors through the 2 fold cover.
We're trying to do something similar to $\Bbb{CP}^2$. Our 2-fold cover becomes branched at 2 points (because the degree 2 map S^2 --> S^2 is a double cover brached at 2 points). And the attaching map is a hell of a lot more messier.
But how does representing it by the 2-fold cover help you find an embedded representstive in the first case?
23:57
Image of the degree 2 map $S^2 \to S^2 = \Bbb{CP}^1$ is not an embedded surface. But $S^2$ is, and I'm trying to get an $S^2$ in the attached $D^4$ in $\Bbb{CP}^2$ so that sliding that $S^2$ through the disk $D^4$ towards boundary and composing with the attaching map $S^3 \to \Bbb{CP}^1$ gives me a homotopy of the inclusion with the degree 2 map.
@MikeMiller Ok, nevermind, fair point. It's not as if I can get every branched double cover to work.
Grumble.

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