@Balarka: Did you see the email I sent you? you didn't respond

Nope, haven't opened my mailbox today because of hat-mania. Let me see.

lol

I already did that.

Right now. That's why you have 0.

Carl Fredrickson hat unlocked.

@ForeverMozart Fun question.

@robjohn You're around?

Hey guys. For Christmas I am allowed to get one textbook of my choice. Which should I pick?!

Artin? Munkres?

Samuel Beckett, "Waiting for Godot".

We have that $\mathcal{O}_F \subseteq \mathcal{O}_L$. Do we get from that that $\mathcal{O}_F/\mathfrak{p}_F \subseteq \mathcal{O}_L/\mathfrak{p}_L$ ?

@BalarkaSen I am taking textbooks for math not reading. But I will check it out

I was joking. Read that book anyway.

Study Artin.

How about munkres?

I dunno, whatever you want.

Topology is not the only branch in math, remember.

Ya. But I mean I want a physical copy of one of the two

Get whichever of the two you'd like to get.

Ok

I vote for Munkres' topology book

Sigh. None of the analysis are here.

Ted's book on Multivariable Calc

Oh yeah that ^

Probably you should do that before Artin/Munkres, @JulianRachman

2nd recommendation would be Spivak, if you haven't read that yet

If you're way above all of that, it would depend on where you want to specialize

Ted's book is very expensive though

Munkres' Analysis on Manifolds is equally good and slightly cheaper.

Ted's book is multivariable calc, not manifold theory.

@Balarka: Got the monkey King. Isn't it uour bedtime? Isn't it my bedtime?

No, the bedtime has long passed.

I am waiting for robjohn/DanielF but apparently they are snoring, I guess.

Oh well.

Lots of dupes on the analysis tags.

@MikerMiller Congrats on the Monkey King.

I am talking about Munkres topology not analysis

@BalarkaSen you thought "Analysis on Manifolds" isn't half a book of multivariable calc? You also thought Ted's book doesn't dip into Manifolds?

If so: you are wrong.

Ted's book does a bit of manifolds.

But I am not prepared to call a manifold theory book a book on mult. calc., no.

kk

So check this out:

i.imgur.com/aEXvxN9.jpg no onebox

Came out of some guy's nose.

Gross, but don't see the relevance.

Looks like that fractal vegetable.

Please type more and make it go away

(Zoomed 300% and fixed it)

Anyway I didn't need a book for multivariable Calculus (plenty of resources online and not a difficult topic) however I do (and it is a good book, don't get me wrong) not like the price, nor print-on-demand nature of Ted's book

POD means that it's black and white, given it contains pictures.... not good.

Sure. I was merely pointing out Munkres's book is a 1st year grad analysis book, and Ted's book is a 1st year undergrad course on mult. calc., so comparing them as in "equally good" doesn't make much sense.

Have you even read it?

Which?

Munkres AOM?

No, but what I said is said in the 1st line of the book's preface :P

You read the preface?

Dork :P

The 1st line, yes.

It's a grad text.

feels extra smart

K, I need to sleep. Night @AlecTeal.

Night

Please type a few more messages

Is it safe?

@Balarka: For future reference. Mine is not 1st year, although a number of the exceptional 1st year students take it. In parts, it's at the senior level for most math programs in the US.

@AlecTeal: If I had wanted colored pictures, the cost would have doubled. So it never had colored pictures (although I made them in Adobe Illustrator in colors).

@TedShifrin what I mean by that is the actual printing (like my library copy) is shaded and works. The POD copy is 2-tone, so it's either grey or black.

oh, crap, really?

I need to email my editor, then. I had no idea.

Yes

Writing an email ...

I've moaned to you before about this, I also checked when I got my copy that it wasn't a printing error because the diagram was just a grey splodge and why I asked you about a source for original prints.

I didn't understand the distinction between that version and the printed version. I've sent the email -- not that I expect it to do much good. For the record, much as I'm a fan of Munkres, I think his Analysis on Manifolds is a weak, weak rewrite of Spivak. And the exercises are poor. Mine win hands down.

Spivak's Differential Geometry?

no, no, Spivak's Calculus on Manifolds. Which is too terse. Munkres expanded it by a factor of 4 or so, but it wasn't up to his usual stellar writing.

It's not as formal as his other stuff (I've got Topology, and Elements of Algebraic Topology to compare it to) but was still very readable.

@Ted Sup. My idea for proving ${\mathfrak so}(n)$ is simple is (i) any ideal is closed under conjugation by ${\rm SO}(n)$, (ii) every $V\in\mathrm{so}(n)$ is expressible as $\sum c_i E(\pi_i)$ for some orthogonal oriented planes $\pi_i$ (and corresponding elements of ${\frak so}(n)$), (iii) so one may take such a linear combination and conjugate it to negate all the coefficients except some at the end (note everything is conjugate to its inverse when $n=3,4$), and then handle $n=8$ separately.

It's readable, @Alec, just not a great impact. And I measure books by exercises. His suck.

I asked about how to prove (ii) here.

This is definitely not my expertise, @anon. I like the \frac \frak slip-up, though :P

heh

I'm curious what's in Fulton/Harris's Representation Theory book. Do you know it?

I have found a missed gem for Topology though @Ted. There's a book called "Introduction to Topology" by Gamelin & Greene. It's a Dover book so very cheap, I must say (and its size is deceptive) it's very broad, very formal, and is... I think it's worth looking into.

I know of it. Haven't gone through it.

If you were to couple that with the much more friendly Introduction to Topology by Bert Mendelson (which holds the readers hand) it'd be a great first course. Anyway G&G is really worth looking at.

I actually brought that book with me, @anon, to learn more rep thy.

I know G&G, @Alec, but stuck with Munkres for teaching point-set.

It didn't used to be Dover.

@TedShifrin Ah.

Since 1999 it has been IIRC, they added answers and more exercises in the second edition.

@anon: I mention Fulton/Harris because they do so much more concrete stuff than most books. They specifically do representation theory of the various $\mathfrak{so}$'s.

I didn't like Mendelson. Simmons is great.

@Balarka: It's 4 hours past your bedtime.

@anon Hey, any of your accounts have a gold tag badge? :P

I'm looking for a cheap version of Topology by Munkres you see, it's hard to recommend a book that is >£100 (I got mine cheap!) if you have any ideas let me know

@TedShifrin Can't sleep. Too many hats to win :P

I wonder if I could get Balaka to kill for fictional internet items or points....

Don't care for points. Care for hats.

*goes to practice his "it's a religion, not a cult" speech.

Sometimes you get what you pay for. There are lots and lots of cheap books. Some expensive books are really worth it. Just saying.

@AlecTeal Why don't you give an upvote to my most recent answer instead? :)

I disagree, @Jasper. Again, exercises ...

Munkres has a hell lot of exercises.

Yes, Munkres's exercises are superb.

Agreed.

Jasper and I will never agree, but exercises is how I measure books (at the undergraduate level).

@TedShifrin maybe once, but the whole "education for all" movement is actually picking up. (I am a GNU hippy, but that's how I learned....) and is a good thing. Textbooks that cost a lot are hopefully in decline.

Nope, @Jasper. I'm way too old for hats.

With the internet one can just google "Topology assignments" and bam! Juicy exercises.

Not necessarily.

I am not proud of the prices of my books, @Alec, except for the diff geo (free). But they are better than most of the competition. I tried to get the editors to keep the prices down.

The hard part is not going all dyslexic and typing "top ass" then wasting the next few hours....

Are there any exercises at all in that, @Jasper?

@TedShifrin it wasn't directed at you like that. You've explained it to me before don't worry.

It's highly relevant, @Jasper, to everyone except you.

I didn't take it personally, @Alec. I'm actually on your side. That's why I've turned down 3 or 4 requests to publish my diff geo book.

I like Kelley, but I never would have taught out of it. I learned a lot from it.

I've written software that can replace some of the "on disk" crap you see with textbooks. I'm really hoping more than just one guy in philosophy will use it.

puts Jasper on ignore

lol

Lol

hi @skull

@anon Did you check for gold tag badge?

What did you do before technology @Ted :P

Hi @TedShifrin

@JasperLoy for some reason I thought Bourbaki was fictional....

@robjohn hi

@anon: What does $E(\pi_i)$ mean?

I thought it was like a biker-gang but French of mathematicians from the 1800s for some reason.

@BalarkaSen for a minute or two.

Bourbaki was a group of mathematicians, not a person.

@skullpetrol hey there.

ooh, @robjohn.

no, not 1800s ... 1900s.

Want to dupehammer something for me?

heya @robjohn :)

1/2 right

@TedShifrin how are things?

@anon: I'd really like to work through Fulton/Harris at some point soon. You may know all of it already. I dunno.

@BalarkaSen what do you mean?

@robjohn I mean, can you close this as duplicate?

@robjohn: Actually am going to start working with students and teachers at an inner-city charter high school. I'm very pumped.

hat=moustache, @Jasper.

Goodnight.

night, @Alec.

Close vote + getting dupehammered by someone would give me a hat.

Later pal

@BalarkaSen why not just let people vote?

Hats, hats!

:P

@robjohn: I hate the manic obsession that hats instill in semi-sane MSE folks.

semi-sane? lol

@BalarkaSen It'll be in the queue and closed soon

@robjohn But someone with a gold badge on the tag has to close it.

Otherwise I won't get the secret hat.

So, please? :P

On that note, I'm going to cook dinner. G'night, y'all.

@JasperLoy next Friday is the 18th

Stop begging, it's so...childish @BalarkaSen :P

@TedShifrin I have to go get my dinner, too.

Who isn't childish about hats?

Later @TedShifrin

Grumpy at @robjohn for not dupehammering it. But good cooking!

Sometimes

You have no idea the extent Mike has gone to get his hats.

This hat is great

:O

Oh, cool, thanks @robjohn.

Ya haven't gotten one, skull?

@TedShifrin the element of the $\mathrm{so}(n)$ corresponding to the one-parameter subgroup which rotates $\pi$ at unit angular speed and acts as the identity on $\pi$'s complement

@TedShifrin certainly not

rubs hands The Thor hat should arrive in a minute.

Nope @SirCumference-Pies

@skullpetrol Hmm...ya know the easiest one, right?

The secret one?

@PVAL No hats?

I don't care about hats.

B-but...

Too bad.

hats are awesome...

@JasperLoy Hardy-Wright is a good book.

My raider avatar wears a "hat" 24/7/365 @SirCumference-Pies :P

Interesting, never heard of it.

Here it comes!

@BalarkaSen eh?

@anon I was asking whether you had a gold tag badge in any of your accounts. But nevermind, got the hat I wanted.

It had to be obtained from voting to close a question as duplicate + getting a user to dupehammer it.

heh

no, I don't have any gold tag badges. I'm too split up between subjects and accounts.

like riddle and his horcruxes

@anon "split" I agree.

You have 7 accounts?

@JasperLoy Probably worthless ones. Dunno.

heh, nah

@anon No hats either?

nah. didn't get into it this time.

Now, all I need is a do-it-yourself hat and a speedy delivery hat.

Sigh...I put a detailed response to a question, it doesn't get noticed

ya guys hate that?

@SirCumference-Pies as long as you help the OP (and/or can link to it in the future) there's no problem :) Remember the imaginary internet points are worthless.

^

Also one dumb-ass question that you solved yourself can become a "hot question" if a dumb-ass asks it, this makes rep even more worthless because it doesn't even reflect decent questions.

^

Well it was a good question

But the asker chose a stupid answer

how can I collect all the hats?

Welcome to SE @SirCumference-Pies :)

There's no royal road to collecting hats

If you're late giving an answer you loose the top spot.

gotta catch em all

If you put a note saying "editing more in now" you get downvotes for incomletness.

Oh cool

Thanks

how do I get a santa hat?

Wait, could I get a new hat if I get another upvote?

;-;

@BalarkaSen *road

:P

Continue like that, you'll become the next Jasper.

-_-

He's not so bad.

I never said he is.

I know.

@AlecTeal But I wrote a huge answer... ;-;

Does detail not count for anything?

@SirCumference-Pies you've learned an important lesson.

Which is?

+1 @SirCumference-Pies

Haste makes...not waste?

Do the 2 upvotes you got via begging feel good?

I didn't beg.... .-.

But uhh....thanks

I was kinda complaining

np

Now I'm close to getting the Copernicus hat

Hi @JulianRachman

@skullpetrol hi!

How are you? @JulianRachman

Good you?

Fine thanks :-)

:) great!

The raiders beat the broncos yesterday.