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13:35
@Slereah Well one is for research mathematics and the other for mathematics
Well my hope was that the solution was known already
I don't know why the toroidal coordinate equation doesn't look at all like the torus equation
I guess there might be a coordinate transform for it but I can't see it
any ideas why math.stackexchange.com/questions/1517103/… is getting to love?
@felipa I edited your title and changed some wording in the body, perhaps people will be drawn to a more descriptive title.
@Chris'ssistheartist How is your book going?
@Alizter All is fine so far. Still a lot of hard work to do there! Thanks for asking! :-)
@Alizter Writing a book is like a neverending story, there is always something to do there.
@Chris'ssistheartist How much have you written so far?
13:46
@Alizter Pretty much. The problem is that I extended my book up to over 500 problems. Initially I had 300 problems only.
@Chris'ssistheartist Is it going to be only problems or problems and theory?
@Alizter It will be a collection of problems about integrals, series and limits, less theory.
@Chris'ssistheartist But you do use some not so standard techniques in a lot of your problems? Would it not be a good idea to develop some understanding for those?
@Alizter I'll explain well all I do in my book, and the reader only needs some basic knowledge in calculus. I make everything easy in my book even if it's about some evil problems.
@Chris'ssistheartist Ah that is good. Any problems you could throw this way for now?
13:50
That's why I talk about the art of mathematics.
I haven't solved one of yours for a long time
@Alizter Here is one nice to finish in the spirit of the art
$$\sum_{n=1}^{\infty} (-1)^{n-1} \frac{H_n^2}{n}$$
It's so amazing if you do it properly.
@Alizter Which one? Do you remember?
@Chris'ssistheartist No I mean, I haven't solved any of your problems for a long time
I had taken a break from chat
@Alizter Ah, I see. Are you still a student?
Yes, will be going to university next year
13:53
Great! Wish you much success there.
@Chris'ssistheartist Thank you! Have you heard of the Mathematical Gazette?
@Alizter In which country?
seems french name
The UK
It is an advanced highschool/undergraduate level journal
They always have a few integrals in there
@Alizter I heard of it, but I don't think it's open to the public, or?
13:55
Perhaps you could submit an entry
@Alizter Thank you!
@Chris'ssistheartist I think its subscribed, however a lot of universities subscribe to it
@Alizter That would be great. Is there a link?
@Alizter I had assumed an expert would find it trivial and it would be closed for that reason alone :)
13:56
@Alizter Thanks
@felipa Trivial problems are welcome here as long as they show effort or have not been asked before
I would recommend adding your thoughts and methods that you have tried to make your question more appealing
@Alizter ok , thanks
I have been invited to a conference on topology and condensed matter physics. Not sure if I should go...
I guess time would be better spent doing multi-calculus and diffgeo than listening to things I won't understand :S
14:39
math.stackexchange.com/questions/1516347/… @robjohn could you send me a screenshot of this please
does not exist?
@BalarkaSen Who invited you?
just like my name on santa claus's list
is there going to be a christmas hats event this year?
@MikeMiller was the MSE champ, right?
last year
14:59
@skillpatrol what is it about
some sorta elections ?
you just get a different hat to put on your avatar
i missed such kind of events, i wasnt been a regular se chatter
very christmasy
theme wise
i m more on attending the nov blackout than 1 jan
if that would happen
we had sleds bring the avatars in and out of chat too
answer more questions = get more hats
15:04
@skillpatrol it wouldnt look cool on someone whom his picture on his avatar has already a hat
the raiders have a helmet, does that count?
ba hum bug
:-)
i dont know whats went wrong, but my last torrent of answers havent received any upvotes
hi @TedShifrin!
15:08
hi @Balarka
nor downvotes
I have been stalling on calc this week a bit. Hope you're not too angry with me :) I will resume studying in a day or so.
No point apologizing about it ... You are supposed to be studying for exams for three months!
Yeah, that's a big problem :(
I think I can definitely still get calc done in this year if I work a bit hard though.
There's a lot to do, especially if you're trying to get facility with differential forms.
Hi @Alessandro !
15:13
hey @Ted
Yes, I am trying to get familiar with forms. By the way, I think you told me that not too much of chapter 7 is needed. How so?
I wrote an exam today, I did great (maybe even all correct) in the linear algebra part but I did a very stupid mistake in an analysis exercise :(
Well, depends how much computational mastery you want of integrals in higher dimensions, @Balarka. You certainly need some of it.
@skillpatrol buffalo buffalo dont look buffalo when buffalo buffalo buffalo
aw, @Alessandro ... that's what happens when you take exams on a Saturday :)
What was the analysis exercise?
15:15
better to do computations sooner than later
user174558
Do people usually say "write exams"?
oh, MikeM is awake?
well, it's already 7...
user174558
Morning Ted, night Mike.
in British/European English, I believe, @Jasper
15:16
morning, @MikeMiller. I agree with what you said.
user174558
Computations are very important in math, contrary to popular belief.
You're the one who doesn't believe in exercises, @Jasper!
for which values of $x$ does the series $\sum\limits_{n=1}^{\infty}\frac{1}{n^2}(\frac{x}{3})^n$ converges? If $=1$ does the series converge to a value bigger than $\frac{1}{2}$?
user174558
For example, 1+1=2.
user174558
@ted Did you get that tutoring job in the end?
15:17
No, @Jasper.
@Alessandro: So you used the ratio test for the first part?
someone sent me a lecture of Gromov where he shows that 2 + 2 = 4 is the germ of Donaldson theory. not sure if I understand how, but pretty funny.
I used the root test, but I just wrote $x\le 3$ because I was in a hurry and forgot that it can be negative too
user174558
Who is this "user"? He keeps being strange.
Oh, leaving out an absolute value sign isn't the end of the world.
user174558
And he doesn't learn from the past. He got suspended several times.
15:19
I have to think about the second question, @Alessandro. I mean, I know how to compute the function explicitly, but that shouldn't be needed.
yep, but then I messed up in the $\frac{1}{2}$ part and got the wrong result
It's also an awkward name, @Jasper, as pinging him pings every userxxxxxx ...
That should be 2 x 2 = 4, @Balarka.
user174558
I thought I would talk to "user", but I won't anymore.
well, I think I did pretty well in the rest of the analysis exercises
15:20
He gets annoyed at me, @Jasper, because he's trying to do Lee's Riemannian Geometry book without knowing what a manifold is, but claims it's appropriate.
user174558
@TedShifrin LOL. New edition in 2017.
@Alessandro: If this is all you messed up, I think you shouldn't be upset. How did you do the second question?
I don't think so ted, I had a problem once where users tried to ping AlecTeal as "Ale" and only I instead of him got pinged
I still don't like it, @Jasper.
That's why I had to start writing MikeM because Mike was pinging all sorts of Mikes.
user174558
@TedShifrin Do you think it a good idea to study from Spivak's 5 books?
15:22
@MikeMiller ah, alright. I think I'm misremembering.
user174558
"user" was really nasty to me earlier today. If I were a kid, I would have cried.
3
I find it way too long-winded, @Jasper, but certainly volume 1 is good. And of course I complain that there aren't exercises (or nearly enough) in subsequent volumes, which means one doesn't really learn.
There was someone on here a few weeks ago who was ridiculously impudent and rude to me. I thought it was someone masquerading with a different name, but Pedro (and Balarka) told me it was a well-known rude person. Just don't know why he/she decided to be rude to me out of nowhere.
user174558
I thought user=Twink, but I might be wrong...
Twink did have a new name half a year ago, but I've forgotten.
user174558
15:25
This user account is quite new, only started March.
hi @edition
I frequent the C++ lounge at SO, and I'm not that great a mathematician.
Is that your introduction, @edition? :)
@TedShifrin yes, I suppose
user174558
How weird!
15:27
I'm not upset, I did a pretty good exam overall, I'm just a bit annoyed that I did avoidable errors :( @Ted I'm not sure how I was supposed to do the second part since I got it wrong, I'll think about it
@TedShifrin Oh, did I tell you that I got my pre-board exam results? It went not that bad :)
user174558
@Alessandro Once you have made enough errors in life, maybe you won't regret anymore, LOL.
Do you know how to find the function $f(x)=\sum x^n/n^2$? @Alessandro
just give me some time then :P @Jasper
95 on math, 92 on physics, 80 on english. but 77 on biology, a little less than I expected.
15:28
Well, welcome, @edition. Are you here for a particular reason, or just to visit?
No history or religion, @Balarka?
no @Ted
oh, and no chemistry?
@TedShifrin I actually have many questions, but that would probably be breaking the rules here.
user174558
@edition Rules are meant to be broken.
Well, some might be better posted on the main question site, @edition.
user174558
15:29
Better to break rules than break hearts.
Now you're getting annoying, @Jasper :D
As long as they are math-related and can be comfortably answered in the chat I think every question is welcome here(?)
@TedShifrin no religion. history was bad, but I don't care :P we have an integrated chemistry + physics syllabus before 11th grade.
user174558
@TedShifrin I learned the word "obnoxious" from you, LOL
well, at least you learned something from me :D
user147690
15:30
@BalarkaSen What's the difference between pre-board and the ones you talked about the other day?
user174558
@BalarkaSen What do you study in religion?
@AlexClark pre-boards is a selection exam for boards
user147690
@BalarkaSen What is a board/pre-board (exam)?
user174558
@AlexClark A board is something you write on.
but i recommend you not trying to understand our high-school educational system :P
15:32
A pre-board is a board without chalk
user147690
I don't know if that is serious or a joke @MikeMiller :D
@AlexClark eh, too much work would require to explain all of that. :P
Oh, @Alessandro: What they want you to do is pretty easy. Compare it directly to the geometric series.
a pre-board is a board without the gluing axiom
user147690
@BalarkaSen ok :P
user174558
15:33
Today, I met my schizophrenic friend. He is not working, and he is now aiming to attain Nibbana.
I knew you were going to do that @Balarka.
user147690
@BalarkaSen Well I know the gluing axiom, or was mine the pasting axiom...
user174558
I know how to use the glue.
Oh? You're familiar with sheaves?
user147690
15:34
Well mine was definitely the pasting axiom then :P
I think you're confusing with the pasting/gluing lemma.
user147690
Wait mine was the pasting lemma -.-
user174558
Easy to paste, just use Ctrl+V
You are looking sort of pasty today, @AlexC
user147690
I HAVEN'T SEEN THE SUN IN DAYS @TED
user147690
15:35
oops caps ;)
I wish I didn't have to look at the implementation of FFT in code to properly understand it.
user174558
It seems that people have indeed received my email about my new email, LOL.
It's hard to understand the FFT without a certain amount of linear algebra and finite field background, @edition, but I'm no expert on it.
@TedShifrin
hi @BalarkaSen
user174558
15:37
Finite fields, hmm. I only know they are used in coding theory.
so yesterday I was learning about functions being homotopic
and path homotopic too
user147690
Hey @KarimMansour, when's your algebra exam?
@Karim only paths are path homotopic
that is, functions with domain being [0, 1]
Well, at least $2^n$-roots of unity are needed for FFT.
btw 1/x and x^2 aren't homotopic right on regular domain
@AlexClark at 4 of december
@AlexClark hi btw
15:38
@KarimMansour huh??
user147690
Hi xD
whoa, what? @Karim
user174558
@karim You look sleepy.
I just woke up
@Alessandro: Did you see my message?
user174558
15:39
@AlexClark I thought only girls use xD, LOL.
user147690
@Jasper Nah xD (counterexample)
user147690
@KarimMansour What happens to 1/x at x=0?
that is $f : R_{+} - {0} \rightarrow R_{+} - {0}$
I said at regular domain
that is what I mean
Any two functions with values in a convex set are homotopic.
15:40
^
$\sum\limits_{n=1}^{\infty}(\frac{1}{3})^n=\frac{1}{2}$.... @Ted
Right, @Alessandro :)
Sorry to annoy you with pings. Just wanted to make sure you'd seen it.
user174558
@TedShifrin You too apologetic.
I like Alessandro, @Jasper ... not apologetic with everyone!
@edition everyone who knows see, get deep enough to be curious about mathematical procedures hidden inside any function
15:41
@TedShifrin what is the convex set
yes, but you should be annoyed when I keep pinging you with questions, not the opposite!
$\Bbb R_+-\{0\}$ @Karim
If the domain is $\Bbb R-\{0\}$, then the functions will not be homotopic, @Karim.
user174558
I am never annoyed by pings, so ping me as often as you wish.
yeah i thought so
i was thinking about it geometrically
It's easy to see why they are homotopic, geometrically.
15:44
Google "straight-line homotopy" @Karim
as there noway to bend x^2 to get 1/x
oki
@Karim in R^+ - 0, there is. it's just on the right half of the real line, so just perturb the images
i am just learning about those concepts yesterday so i m sorry if my question is trivial
yes
@Ted: You ever look at calibrations?
btw @BalarkaSen and @TedShifrin I am gonna do all chapter 9 which is the fundmental group because my final project in topology will be about ulam borsuk theorem
user174558
15:46
I usually call it Borsuk Ulam.
Yes, I read Harvey/Lawson's original paper. I remember the lecture Lawson gave on it when they had just "discovered" them.
Borsuk-Ulam needs serious algebraic topology or differential topology, @Karim. You can't do it with just fundamental group.
@Karim ok. Munkres part II is a good intro to algebraic topology.
they have it with the fundmental group
@TedShifrin
in munkres
No way.
Only in dimension 2.
user174558
@BalarkaSen Do you like his algebraic topology book?
15:48
@TedShifrin Borsuk Ulam with n = 2
user147690
@KarimMansour When will you be doing munkres part II?
For higher dimensions, you need homology.
no, you need cohomology, really ... but differential topology wins this one hands-down.
15:48
I am doing it now
@Jasper I started learning algebraic topology from Munkres.
@Ted: What did they originally do with them?
user147690
@KarimMansour Oh damn, I just started it. Won't have any time to do some until after the 21st though
Hi @Jasper
@AlexClark I am doing it now prof haven't started it yet but I need to do it for my project
user174558
15:49
@skullpetrol Hi
@TedShifrin No, you just need the transfer sequence.
It was a way of introducing generalizations of minimal surfaces, @MikeM ... You study the family of manifolds that minimize integrals of a given closed differential form. Also generalizing complex submanifolds (Wirtinger inequality).
@Balarka: That's harder than using cohomology, but ok.
user174558
It is strange that many algebraic topology books don't cover classification of surfaces.
is it possible to do general one in 1 month ?
@BalarkaSen and @TedShifrin
NO @Karim
15:50
No.
I've seen some of these examples, I guess that makes sense.
It's really a very different flavor, @Jasper.
It took me 6 months to understand fundamental group + covering spaces
I have the calibrations proof for minimal surfaces as an exercise in my blue book, @MikeM :D
user174558
@TedShifrin Yeah, but I feel it is an important result.
15:51
It's just Stokes's Theorem, of course.
Interestingly, @Jasper, I've never been through it. My alg top course at Berkeley never did it.
I don't know what that's supposed to mean.
Oh, that calibrated submanifolds minimize volume in their homology class?
user174558
@TedShifrin Even stranger is that some cover surface classification but not curve classification, LMAO.
Curve classification??
You mean 1-manifolds. But that's easy.
Guillemin and Pollack do the curve case in their appendix. I've never once bothered to teach it.
user174558
15:52
@BalarkaSen It is still nontrivial.
It is nontrivial, but not particularly educational.
I haven't thought about the topological (as opposed to differential topological) case, tbh.
I agree about what @Jasper says about not having classification of 2-manifolds in alg top books. Munkres covers it, however.
user174558
Now, my beloved Lee does both in his book, LOL.
Massey was always the standard source for classification of surfaces.
user174558
Yes, indeed. Lee follows Massey.
15:54
@Ted: It seems strange to me that I can't define a "volume $k$-form" by demanding it take an oriented orthonormal basis for a k-plane to 1... Obvious I can't in retrospect but still a bit surprising
BTW, @Balarka, it wasn't in the edition of Munkres that I learned from. He added that to the second edition.
user174558
@TedShifrin The first edition is much smaller than the second.
Ah, I see. Yes, my Munkres is 2nd edition.
You can, of course, @MikeM, but in $\Bbb R^n$ there's no universal such form. That's what's so amazing about complex geometry.
How's the therapy going @Jasper?
user174558
15:55
@BalarkaSen I only know of one Munkres, and he is James, LOL.
When I took that course from Munkres, the book was in a looseleaf binder. The book came out two years later.
I am identifying author of book with the author.
user174558
@skullpetrol Just taking meds. I stopped going for psychotherapy after some sessions, not really helpful.
@Ted: That seems wrong? Then every submanifold with respect to that calibration would be a calibrated submanifold, hence volume minimizing?
user174558
@BalarkaSen You don't need to explain every joke I make, LOL.
15:57
On a Kähler manifold, you have a form that calibrates $2k$-dimensional submanifolds. On $\Bbb R^n$, there can be no such form.
@Jasper: Balarka is learning to have a sense of humo(u)r.
user147690
@TedShifrin thanks for the u, I wouldn't have understood ;)
I threw you a bone, @AlexC.
user174558
I use the u too.
Holomorphic submanifolds... I just did that computation. :)
15:58
^
user147690
omg balarka made a joke 2!
But of course holomorphic submanifolds minimize volume.
The Wirtinger inequality is spectacular, @MikeM. Just linear algebra, of course.
user174558
OMG, I almost did not get the joke!
gotta do some breakfast and then assignments and studying :D
oh yeah
user174558
16:00
They like to star and unstar things here.
i need my caffe @Jasper
Wow, I'm on at 10AM
user174558
@KarimMansour Yes. Good.
user147690
@Clarinetist Mo(u)rning
Morning @Alex
16:00
hi @Clarinetist
hi @Clarinet
user174558
Hi @Clarinetist I am still alive, wow!
@Karim, @Ted, @Jasper, morning :)
BTW, @Balarka was not making any joke.
user147690
How do you know?
16:01
No, that was intentional :P
user147690
He always capitalises his first letter @TedShifrin $\blacksquare$
I am not convinced.
user174558
Diarrhoea and diarrhea, LOL.
user174558
Gonna eat sth.
By the way, @Ted, the job has turned out a million times better than I could've imagined. :)
16:03
It was functionally equivalent to not telling a joke.
Well, not to be grumpy, but you said that about the last one for the first few weeks, @Clarinet. :D
A Million?
@Ted Haha. I will do my time here. No sign of people getting overworked yet
It was homotopic to the zero joke, I agree.
Oh well.
user147690
Quick group theory thingy @BalarkaSen, if $|G|=pq$ and $p<q, q-1\not\equiv \pmod{p}$

Then we get $n_p=1,n_q=1$ and we know these sylow groups are thus normal, and intersect trivially, denote these $P$ and $Q$, and so $G\cong P\times Q \implies G\cong \Bbb Z/p\Bbb Z \times \Bbb Z/ q\Bbb Z \cong \Bbb Z/ pq\Bbb Z$ since $p$ and $q$ are coprime, this is cyclic
user147690
16:05
Good?
user147690
Haha Mats, needs more stars
user147690
@BalarkaSen Good, I didn't forget basics of sylow theory yet :P
That's too bad.
16:07
i dont really know what does right and leftvote mean but i star !
Sylow theory is just a systematic way to find normal subgroups of given group, so that you can fit your group in a short exact sequence. Then you can apply general nonsense to classify groups. That's the idea.
user147690
@MikeMiller What's too bad?
Before realizing this, I hated group theory. After realizing it, I loved it.
well, basics of group theory, I mean.
@AlexClark That you have not forgotten Sylow theory, apparently.
user147690
@BalarkaSen I thought that was what he referred to, but he never uses the arrow
user147690
@MikeMiller pls use arrow
16:09
Yes, you have to be smart to understand what Mike is referring to.
It's part of his humor.
Jesus Christ.
user147690
Oops. In my defence, I only pinged him twice
I am not sure why he ragequitted.
Is that one word?
ragequit
user147690
I think he quit because I was distracting him
16:12
Who?
16:24
@Chris'ssistheartist I have to go, or I would look it up. is that one of the $A(n,k)$ I did a while ago?
Hi @robjohn
@robjohn hmmm, I don't remember.
@robjohn You refer to this, right? math.stackexchange.com/questions/275643/…
@Chris'ssistheartist No, it was this one, which is not the same
gotta go. BBL
user147690
@BalarkaSen Another quick verification, $|G|=99=3^2\times 11$ gives us $n_{3}=1,n_{11}=1$ which gives us trivial intersection of normal $p,q$ sylow subgroups, and $P\cong \Bbb Z/11\Bbb Z$ $Q\cong \Bbb Z/9\Bbb Z$ or $\Bbb Z/3\Bbb Z\times \Bbb Z/3\Bbb Z$ and this gives way to two isomorphism classes for $G$, one cyclic, one non-cyclic:

$$\Bbb Z/11\Bbb Z \times \Bbb Z/ 9 \Bbb Z\cong \Bbb Z/99\Bbb Z, \quad \Bbb Z/3\Bbb Z \times \Bbb Z/3\Bbb Z \times \Bbb Z/11\Bbb Z\cong \Bbb Z/3 \Bbb Z \times \Bbb Z/33\Bbb Z$$
16:28
Later
@robjohn You should try it when you have time. It's a nice one.
works @AlexClark.
classify groups of order 12
user147690
Sure
that's the smallest number for which the classification is nontrivial, so be warned
Hello I have a question I have different two accounts on mathoverflow.net
Hello I have a question I have different two accounts on mathoverflow.net. First is old one. And after I know this site, math.stackexchange.com, I made an id. So I have two id on mathoverflow.net. So I want to tie them. Where can I ask this problem ? Thank you for your attention.
16:34
try meta MSE?
meta ? discussion site ( I do not know what people do on that site) Am I right ?
I see I will try it. Thank you for your answer

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