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12:07 AM
Huh? No, $x,y$ are specific elements. They're not arbitrary.
 
I am not sure what you mean by that, what I meant to ask was: does $[x,y]=x$ literally, where that is the same $x$?
I think you are saying yes, but then how does the skew-symmetry identity work
 
Yes, but $x$ is not a random element of the Lie algebra. $[y,x]=-x$, because that's how we're defining the lie algebra.
 
re goodnight, @MikeM
belated hi @Pedro @DanielF
 
If you want to be very specific you could say we define the bracket by $[ax+by,cx+dy]=(ad-bc)x$.
But we don't do this because this becomes obnoxious very quickly.
 
What is an example of a non-abel 2-dim matrix lie algebra?
I saw one, I'll find in a sec, but it didn't seem to come out $[x,y]=x$
2
A: Example of two-dimensional non-abelian Lie algebra?

Hauke StrasdatLet $X=\begin{bmatrix} a&b\\0&0 \end{bmatrix} $ and $Y=\begin{bmatrix} x&y\\0&0 \end{bmatrix} $. Furthermore, let the Lie bracket be the matrix commutator: $[X,Y]:=XY-YX$. We get $XY= \begin{bmatrix} ax&ay\\0&0 \end{bmatrix}$, but $YX= \begin{bmatrix} ax&bx\\0&0 \end{b...

 
12:18 AM
Hmm ...
 
Is that Hmm ... directed at me?
 
It's isomorphic to that one. I think you're misunderstanding what the bracket is. It doesn't spit out the first element. We're defining it by defining it on a basis.
 
It was directed at my thinking ...
But I concur with @MikeM, for once.
 
I am definitely misunderstanding the bracket :D
4 mins ago, by Lie Algebra
I am not sure what you mean by that, what I meant to ask was: does $[x,y]=x$ literally, where that is the same $x$?
Oh I see
 
You have a particular basis $x,y$ for your $2$-dimensional vector space. In terms of that basis, ...
 
12:20 AM
Damnit... I was thinking $\{X,Y\}$ is the basis and $x\in X, y\in Y$
 
@Ted: Morning n bye. Heading up into Topanga for a couple days. No service...
2
 
That makes no sense, @LieAlgebra.
 
@TedShifrin What?
 
Well, @MikeM, I'll be out of service for at least several days on my trip.
2
 
@TedShifrin I mean $x$ in the span of $X$
 
12:21 AM
Well, sure, @LieAlgebra, if you something about $x$ and $y$, you certainly know the same thing for $cx$ and $dy$.
That's the whole point of (bi)linear algebra.
Topanga during school, @MikeM? Have fun!
 
Okay, fair enough, I didn't reread it sufficiently well
 
@Ted: Midterm's tomorrow, my last responsibility on campus is done until Monday, when I meet with ciprian.
got to grade but I'll do that Sat
 
what the ? ... in upper division courses the prof doesn't even grade exams? I don't like this
(Add that to my discussion list.)
 
It's 50/50.
 
Hrumph.
 
12:25 AM
This is an objection I don't understand.
 
I think faculty tend to be too removed from their students even with a recitation, let alone not grading or answering questions in office hours.
The TA should grade homework.
Call me old fashioned. People like me won't exist in the new generations ...
At research universities, that is.
 
Soon I'll be gone.
 
from this earth?
 
I would hate to have a job that's only grading. Painful and time-consuming and painful.
Maybe that's why you should only have TAs grade. Really motivate them to get grants.
 
12:30 AM
I don't disagree with that. But I think faculty need to pull more weight. It's fine in a large lecture course to have slaves, but I don't approve in a major course.
Anyhow, this is not the place for this debate.
 
Mm. One bar now.
 
You're obviously a passenger :P
 
Wow... Euler->Lagrange->(Fourier-Dirichlet, Poisson->Liouville) WOW
How did I not know this...
 
Hello@Ted how are you?
 
So most of the great mathematicians of the past had another great mathematician as their advisor. I didn't realise that.
Well I better get off to work, bye.
 
12:37 AM
later pal
 
1:03 AM
Help with simple natural sequence: math.stackexchange.com/questions/1403260/…
thx
 
1:36 AM
@Semiclassical Related to what I was talking about earlier is the apparent identity $$\text{Re} \left[K \left(\frac{1-i \sqrt{3}}{2} \right) \right]^{2} = \frac{\sqrt{\pi} \, \Gamma^{2} ( \frac{1}{6})}{2^{11/3} \, 3^{1/2} \, \Gamma (\frac{5}{6})}$$ where, using Mathematica's notation, $K(m)$ is the complete elliptic integral of the first kind with parameter $m=k^2$. Is there any light you can shed on this apparent identity?
 
 
2 hours later…
4:04 AM
@TedShifrin That's typically 2k-3k problems a week nowadays.
 
 
4 hours later…
8:18 AM
Basic category theory question - if we view a monoid as a category, the isomorphisms are precisely the invertible elements. ("Isomorphism" = "arrow with an inverse".) Awodey says that in this case we can't view "isomorphism" as "bijective homomorphism". Why can we not think of a monoid element acting on the monoid by left multiplication, and obtain a bijective homomorphism out of every invertible element that way?
 
@PatrickStevens seems like you're putting words in awodey's mouth. (or at least misinterpreting his intentions)
 
@anon he explicitly says "in many cases only the abstract definition makes sense, as for example, in the case of a monoid regarded as a category."
 
sure, then the elements of the monoid are not a priori functions at all
 
I agree that "bijective hom" is the wrong way to view isomorphisms - for instance, the existence of bijective non-homeomorphism homomorphisms between topological spaces
i'm just not convinced that there are cases where we can't make a concrete definition which makes sense
 
Awodey does not say "we can't make a concrete definition which makes sense"
 
8:23 AM
@anon the elements of the monoid are not a priori functions, but they can induce functions
 
elements of a monoid a priori are not functions, even if you can identify them with functions via the regular representation
what's your point?
 
@anon i read "only the abstract definition makes sense" as "we can't make another definition which makes sense", and in particular "we can't make a concrete definition which makes sense"
so the regular representation is too specific a procedure for it to work as a definition?
is it that we want a definition which is very general, and the representation is not general enough?
 
the idea of the regular representation is that the monoid is equivalent to a concrete category in which the isomorphisms are bijections, but that's not the same as defining the monoid a priori that way.
we don't define groups as collections of functions for instance, even if every group happens to be equivalent to a concrete symmetry group (via Cayley's). (although indeed stronger things can be said with categories, as categories aren't necessarily concretizable)
 
@anon but we could define a group as a collection of functions - for example, that's how mathematica does it
 
could, and don't
 
8:27 AM
@anon but if there are non-concretisable categories, then i'm satisfied until i see one
 
hTop, the category of topological spaces and homotopy classes of continuous maps
similarly, we don't define manifolds as subsets of euclidean space, we have an abstract definition
abstract vs concrete is a common theme in defining mathematical objects
 
@anon I agree that it's extremely useful to have the abstract definition, and the abstract definition is often better
@anon i was just confused by awodey's statement that "only the abstract definition makes sense"
it's like defining a manifold, and saying "only the abstract definition makes sense", when we have theorems that let us embed all manifolds into euclidean space
 
if the morphisms are not functions, then the bijection definition doesn't make sense. it doesn't matter if there is an equivalent concrete category in which it does, since (again) the original morphisms are not functions.
 
@anon yep, I agree now, but only because you've shown me a non-concretisable category so I can now believe that there is no well-defined way to turn morphisms, whatever they are, into functions
 
the original statement wasn't necessarily about our ability to turn morphisms into functions, it was about morphisms being functions in the first place
 
8:31 AM
i would be unhappy with a definition that insisted on casting morphisms into functions to deal with them, but awodey said it was impossible so i tried to see why it was impossible
 
did awodey explicitly say it was impossible to identify morphisms with functions?
 
what does it even mean to say morphisms are "functions"? a category has a bunch of objects, and morphisms between them are arrows. the objects may or may not be sets.
 
@anon ok, fair enough, but we don't care about the implementations of things usually, do we? like, there's loads of ways i could implement the integers, but i don't care what objects i'm dealing with as long as i can operate with them in some way
@BalarkaSen well, exactly!
@BalarkaSen like, integers are equivalence classes of pairs of naturals, but we have a way of viewing them in a nice way
in the same way, we might have a nice way of viewing morphisms
(for "nice", read "concrete")
 
no, sorry, not all morphism comes that way, as anon told you
 
yes, that's why i'm satisfied now
thanks
 
8:35 AM
consider the following statement: "in many cases only the abstract definition makes sense, for instance the integers or fundamental groups." this could accurately refer to the abstract vs. concrete definition of groups. one could identify integers or based loops with functions, but that's not the type of thing that they are
 
"arrows" are a very abstract thing. one shouldn't confuse it with functions. think of the collection of arrows in between two objects a,b, in a category C as a set hom_C(a, b)
it's just a honset to gosh set, with nothing known about the elements
 
@anon i'm not very happy with "the type of thing that something is", because we may have many different ways of implementing things, and for each application we just need to be able to find an implementation which works - i'll have to think about that
@BalarkaSen yep, i'm happy with arrows-are-not-naturally-functions - my question was mainly "can we coerce them to be functions in a standard way"
 
for example, just take a direct graph. setting the objects to be the nodes of the graph and the morphisms to be the edges, you get a category.
how can you realize the morphisms as functions here?
 
@BalarkaSen yes, that's the example i was about to type up - basically a poset viewed as a category
 
@PatrickStevens i don't even know what the question means to be honset. what do you mean by functions between two objects?
 
8:38 AM
@BalarkaSen well, i couldn't come up with something immediately, but that's not to say it is impossible
 
you don't have a set or anything. you just have two objects.
 
@BalarkaSen we can implement the objects as classes of some kind, can't we? (i hope?)
 
i am not sure what you mean by that
 
and we have functions between classes - not true functions, but function-classes
 
objects can be anything in the world.
it needn't be a set
 
8:40 AM
@BalarkaSen whatever objects we are dealing with, we can define them in a set-theoretic way, can't we? it might be as a class, like the class of all sets - not a true set
 
like the example i gave you, it's vertices of a graph. what do you mean by functions between vertices of a graph?
 
but we do have a way of defining it in logic?
 
@PatrickStevens define vertices of a graph in a set theoretic way
 
well, label them by the integers
or whichever ordinal we want (i'm assuming choice)
 
ok. a vertex is then just an integer.
what does it mean to say functions between integers?
 
8:41 AM
i could use a function between sets of the right cardinality, for instance
ok, they're not bijective ever
er
but it's not obvious to me that you can't define these things in a set-theoretic way, and everything else i've ever seen can be
 
see, the point is, objects in categories aren't a well-defined thing. it's like the word "point" in euclidean geometry, which you never define, but write down a bunch of axioms about.
 
my lecturers were very careful to give set-theoretic definitions of everything - a graph is a tuple (V, E) where V is a set and E is a set of tuples (v1, v2) such that v1, v2 are in V, and so on
@BalarkaSen ah, ok
@BalarkaSen i'm still in the "rigour" stage of terry tao's three stages, i like having these things precisely stated :P
 
it's a kind of "synthetic" thing. very hard to understand for logical minds, but it was surprisingly the thing which came first, if you trace down history.
 
at the moment, i'm the kind of person who might try and work out what a "point" was
 
you can't, as it's not defined
 
8:44 AM
yeah, if you do maths by scientific induction, you get synthetic definitions
@BalarkaSen well, exactly, and that was what i was having trouble with in categories
analogy:
 
you'll get used to it :)
 
a point might not be defined, but we can identify it (in 2d) with a 2-tuple of reals
similarly, an object might not be defined, but perhaps we could identify it with a particular set
 
Circular definitions are circular by definition :P
2
 
some categories aren't concretisable, so that turns out not to work always, and i can cope with that
 
maybe, maybe not. but that's not the point of category theory. you start with something which is not defined, and write down a bunch of axioms about it so that you can work with that thing. always trying to find a functor which takes your non-concrete category to a "concrete" category makes it hard for one to work with it.
@PatrickStevens yes, but V is the set of all the vertices. a single vertex here is not a set.
 
8:47 AM
@BalarkaSen oh, i agree - but we might be able to work in the knowledge that a functor exists, even if we never use it in practice
in the presence of the well-ordering theorem, V may be a set of ordinals
ah well - i'm getting back to the book
thanks for the discussion
 
no problem. i have to leave too.
 
Later pals
Thanks for the star :-)
 
@Anon If I want to find the commutation relations for $-\frac{i}{2}\lambda_i$ where $\lambda_i$ are the Gell-mann matrices, will I need to manually compute all of $[u_i,u_k],i,k\in\{1,2,\cdots\}$ or is there some trick to find all of these quickly?

I.e. $[u_1,u_2]=u_3,[u_1,u_4] = \frac{u_7}{2}$
 
9:04 AM
@LieAlgebra automatically you can cut the calculations from 8*8=64 to 8*7/2=28 brackets. there's probably something special that can be done beyond that but I am not familiar with them.
 
in English Language & Usage, 11 mins ago, by tchrist
SO has 9,999,747 questions and rising.
 
9:48 AM
@robjohn hey. Related to the problem we discussed the days, the one in AMM, simple Taylor series reveals a form of this type $$\frac{1423813 x^{10}}{518400}+\frac{816049 x^9}{362880}+\frac{36139 x^8}{13440}+\frac{7183 x^7}{5040}+\frac{1411 x^6}{720}+\frac{67 x^5}{40}+\frac{49 x^4}{24}+\frac{7 x^3}{6}+\frac{3 x^2}{2}+x+1$$
@robjohn excepting the first 2 terms, there is a perfect alternance between the coefficients with odd and even powers. This should make us think of limsup and liminf, and numerically it is confirmed that one of the sequence is below $1/\log(2)-1$ and the other one above.
 
@Chris'ssistheartist Does this lead us to the limits?
 
@robjohn I think once we make the split of the coefficients with odd and even powers, we might possibly use some simple inequalities and related the whole thing to something that gives us the desired result.
For the first coefficients we have $1, 1, 1.5, 1.16, 2.04, 1.67, 1.95, 1.42, 2.68, 2.24$, that shows the alternating values I was talking about.
@robjohn the author could have simply asked: calculate $$\lim_{n\to\infty} \frac{\log(a_n)}{\log(n)}$$ but he specified that we have sup and inf and this is due to the different magnitude of the coefficients of the even and odd powers.
It's not the first time when I met such problems, but the last part seems the most difficult one. Using some clever inequalities to relate some numbers about OEIS says anything about to some numbers that plugged in the stated limits yield the desired results.
The coefficients with odd powers are clearly below $1/\log(2)-1$.
 
The ones computed here... how do we get the limits?
 
@robjohn You don't need to get the precise limits, look
@robjohn They are just some thoughts of the problem, I don't see another way of approaching it.
@r9m above you have some thoughts of mine on the problem you asked me about.
 
10:06 AM
@Chris'ssistheartist we don't need the precise limits, but we need to show the trends continue and the limits don't drop too low or rise too high at some point.
 
@robjohn That's sure. I'm thinking about all these details.
 
10:21 AM
Caution: Heavy Duty Equipment at Work
:D
 
@skullpatrol ;)
BBL (I'm away for a good while)
 
Later pal.
 
11:07 AM
Can I prove that two integral domains are equal by showing that they are integrally closed in the same field?
 
11:18 AM
Hello@Tobias, hello@Soham
 
hi @Rem
 
Any math being cooked?@Soham
 
hi @Soham, @Rememberme
 
Hm... actually, I think I would need that one integral domain is contained in the other for that to hold.
 
11:41 AM
I have a proposed alternative proof for math.stackexchange.com/questions/1403801/… - could someone briefly check my reasoning? (typing it up now)
My reasoning is nonsense, ignore me
 
11:58 AM
@RandomVariable hmm, I'll think about it. one thing I do notice is that, since $m=\frac{1}{2}+i \text{ Im }m$, one has $m'=1-m=\frac{1}{2}-i \text{ Im }m=\overline{m}$. So the LHS can be expressed in terms of $K(m)$ and $K(m')=K'(m)$ rather than in terms of real parts
 
Hello@Balarka sorry was not here . Doing any interesting math ?
 
@Remember Not much right now, but have done a lot of math yesterday.
 
@DanielFischer The Riesz-Dunford Functional Calculus definition of a mapping $f: \mathcal{A} \to \mathcal{A}$, from a Banach algebra to itself is as follows:

$$f(a) := \frac{1}{2 \pi i} \int_{\Gamma}f(z)(z-a)^{-1}dx$$ where the $f$ in the integrand is an analytic function on some open $U \subset \mathbb{C}$. Is there a reason why he calls the function on the left $f$ when there is already a $f$ in the integrand, would it not be better to call it $\Phi(f)$? Is there a specific reason for this way of writing the integral?
 
r9m
12:15 PM
@Chris'ssistheartist right!! it just suffices to show that a subsequence of $\{a_n\}$ converges to that limit .. :)
 
@DanielFischer Probably $\Phi_{f}(a)$ would be better than what I wrote $\Phi(f)$.
 
@Moses It may be cleaner in some respects to denote it $\Phi(f)$, but from a certain abstract point of view it is indeed the same function. If we take a polynomial, you are probably used to viewing polynomials as abstract algebraic entities, and that you can evaluate polynomials at elements of any algebra over the base ring. So writing $P(a)$ when $P$ is a polynomial is not surprising.
Analytic functions have many things in common with polynomials. In simple situations, you can identify the function with its power series, and a power series with elements of a Banach algebra also makes immediate sense (if convergent). The integral is written in that way because it is basically the Cauchy integral formula.
 
@DanielFischer Yeah I guess it is notation in analogy with the Cauchy integral formula, but in that case it is actually the same function.
 
@Moses In some sense [not the set-theoretic sense of course], it is still the same function.
 
12:32 PM
@DanielFischer I get your point regarding the polynomials but there the relation between $P(a)$ and $P$ seems clear and not also included in the same equation. I just don't see how in this case it is equivalent. But I get your point about the analogy to Cauchy Integral Formula. Is the reason why you say they are equivalent quite technical?
 
@Moses More philosophical than technical. It's not a philosophical point of view I embrace, so I can't explain it particularly well.
 
@r9m Yeap. I think playing with this idea combined with taylor series formula, we're not away from the solution.
 
hi @AlexClark
 
user147690
Hey @BalarkaSen, just got home from uni and it's 10:45 pm :P
 
oh, lord
get some rest
 
user147690
12:46 PM
I will soon :), just looking at some of my Lie algebra stuff since I have an exam next week
 
ah, ok.
How're your algebra classes?
 
r9m
@Chris'ssistheartist I am stuck with a last piece of the puzzle .. I guess we could estimate the gap $\displaystyle \lim\sup_{n \to \infty} \frac{\log a_n}{\log n} - \lim\inf_{n \to \infty} \frac{\log a_n}{\log n}$ as well with a bit of knowledge about subseries of $\sum \frac{1}{m!}$ and it's powers :)
 
user147690
There is a sample questions list for the exam, with 16 questions on it, and written at the top is:

Four of the questions listed below will appear on Quiz 1 and make up 66 marks out of a total of 100.
 
user147690
@BalarkaSen Advanced alg I have fallen a little behind on, but otherwise everything seems good
 
user147690
I'll be doing some representation theory soon it looks like
 
12:48 PM
I think you should try to keep up with that one. Very, very important.
 
user147690
Yep, tomorrow I will be just looking at that course for ~9 hours or so
 
What are you guys doing in advanced alg right now?
 
@r9m you suggest, in other words, that $$\lim_{n\to\infty} \frac{\log(a_n)}{\log(n)}=1/\log(2)-1$$, because if so, I'm not convinced of that. I don't say it is not so, but I'm not sure of that.
 
user147690
Just finished group theory revision I guess, but I haven't got it all down yet
 
user147690
Sylow theorems, Nilpotent groups, Derived series
 
r9m
12:50 PM
@Chris'ssistheartist nope ... $a_n$ has an error term that oscillates between a range of value .. I'm only saying we could work out an estimate of the difference between limsup and liminf with a bit of luck ;)
 
@r9m Ah, OK. This is good to know.
 
user147690
@BalarkaSen Doesn't sound very advanced yet does it :P
 
@r9m Well, yeah, it would be an idea. :-)
@r9m These days I don't have a great focusing power, my condition is not OK. But it's nice to taste it bit with bit like a very good chocolate, no hurry to finish it. ;)
 
user147690
I'm going to shower now, and then sleep probably(or come back), so goodnight I suppose
 
@AlexClark Sylow theorems are good
 
r9m
12:55 PM
@Chris'ssistheartist proving the liminf < 1/log 2 - 1, is easy enough .. limsup > 1/log 2 - 1 desires miraculous observation which I still don't see :)
 
@AlexClark I'd call representation theory pretty advanced. I don't know much representation theory, for one.
 
r9m
@Chris'ssistheartist talk about depression and lack of focus .. I am suffering from both :|
 
@r9m where you used the coefficients of the even and odd powers? Or other subsequences ...
 
r9m
@Chris'ssistheartist I didn't realize that even powers behave so nicely (I read your comments above) .. I used $a_{2^n - 1}$ to chase the game
 
@r9m Well, this is a subsequence inscribed in the coefficients of the odd powers.
 
r9m
12:58 PM
@Chris'ssistheartist ya .. I'm trying that for the limsup
 
@r9m I think it should work. I bet that is the way to go.
 
r9m
@Chris'ssistheartist if it works: I shall dance in joy!! :P
 
r9m
@Chris'ssistheartist it'd be my pleasure to re-enact the dance I had with my chair after I finished 11832 :P (I had to pay damage charges for that later .. )
 
@r9m hahahaha :-))))))
 
r9m
1:05 PM
@Chris'ssistheartist btw did you see 11854? :)
 
@r9m I saw it now. Interesting. Before attenting anything else from AMM, I would like to see this one killed. :-)
@r9m I wait to recover my powers, I'm still on some powerful medicine, I hardly focus on stuff.
 
r9m
@Chris'ssistheartist okay! but it's a fun problem :-)
 
@r9m Yeap. You found a solution to it?
 
r9m
@Chris'ssistheartist powerful medicine? are you not well atm? :o
 
@r9m allergy treatment (but not including only specific medication since I don't respond to it)
 
r9m
1:10 PM
@Chris'ssistheartist yes ofcourse :) The tools one need is just that parabolas are determined by a point and a line
 
@r9m I struggle to be well, but as I said, I hardly focus on stuff, I'm pretty sleepy this time.
 
r9m
@Chris'ssistheartist I know how bad allergy medicines can be ... my roomie used to take a few and he used to become really sleepy ..
 
@r9m Yeah, and they also produce a terrible lack of energy. Anyway, I think all this comes from overwork since for long periods of time I pushed myself very much and slept less.
 
r9m
@Chris'ssistheartist yes .. he used to sleep with hips up after taking those tabs ..
 
@r9m I don't plan to take them too long. I'll see how I am in the next few weeks and drop them.
 
r9m
1:15 PM
@Chris'ssistheartist don't stress yourself .. you work too hard!!! get out and get some air/beer/whatever makes you feel relaxed
 
@r9m I long a cold beer with limonade - that I didn't try for so long time! :D
@r9m but, not while on medicine, never ;)
 
r9m
@Chris'ssistheartist allergy medicines are to be discontinued only after the symptoms have left you .. don't stop abruptly from a med course (for allergy treatments the results could be aggravating) ..
@Chris'ssistheartist beer + lemonade = heaven :D
 
@Chris'ssistheartist: did we deal with a question similar to this one?
 
@robjohn Perhaps. Using beta function is just the nice way to consider (+1) :-)
 
r9m
1:19 PM
@robjohn I have seen the identity in past .. :) Nice! (+1)
 
If I've worked that problem before, I will feel silly for working it again.
@Chris'ssistheartist I gave an elementary answer as well.
 
@robjohn I was reading it now.
 
r9m
BBL .. I need to eat sth ./
 
@robjohn nice
@robjohn I might say these ones are amongst your favourite problems, all involving binomial coefficients in finite or infinite series.
 
@Chris'ssistheartist They seem approachable, at least.
 
1:26 PM
@robjohn and cute I'd say.
 
@r9m I've heard that for antibiotics, but for allergy meds?
 
Perhaps allergy meds have anti-inflammatories which are similar to antibiotics?
 
@robjohn Do you immediately see a non-tedious way to determine the residue of $\frac{\log(1-iz)}{z(z^{2}+1)^{5}}$ at $z = i$?
 
1:56 PM
@RandomVariable it's been a while, but i seem to remember the generalized leibniz rule for derivatives (i.e. $D^n(u(x)v(x))= \sum_{k=0}^n \binom{n}{k} u^{(k)}(x)v^{(n-k)}(x)$) being handy for that kind of calculation
might be overkill for this, though
 
@RandomVariable would be terribly tedious if you try to do that by hand. i'd expand by taylor series, quotient and look at the coefficient of $z^{-1}$, though.
 
that's not lacking in tedium either, though, because the power of $(z-i)^5$ in the denominator means you're in effect looking for the coefficient of $(z-i)^4$ in $\log(1-i z)/(z(z+i)^5)$
 
@Semiclassical That's immediately what I thought of.
 
re: the leibniz rule or the tedium comment?
 
Leibniz rule
 
2:01 PM
I agree. I don't know of any other way to do this which would be less tedious than this.
 
ahh
@BalarkaSen if i'm remembering right, the Leibniz rule comes in handy there because you can view it as a product of functions
view the computation of the residue, i mean
i'm vaguely remembering this from back when i did complex analysis and had an utterly horrible looking residue to compute
but which the leibniz rule made much easier to see
 
okay. i don't recall much complex analysis -- i read that stuff a couple years back. i'd have to study it again soon
 
nod plus, this is more an algebraic trick than anything else
 
right, agreed.
(the decision for re-study of complex analysis is a result of seeing it cropping up everywhere - from algebraic geometry to algebraic topology)
 
r9m
2:39 PM
@robjohn allergy meds alter/change the proportions of antigen-antibodies .. it takes time for the body to readjust to it's natural state ..
 
Is there any way to obtain eccentricity of a general conic?
 
@DanielFischer Is the following reasoning correct: For an integral $\int_{\Gamma}\frac{g(w)}{w-z}dw$, where $g$ is analytic and where $z$ is outside the contour $\Gamma$, the integral is zero. My idea is that if $z$ is outside $\Gamma$ then $w-z \neq 0$ hence $\frac{g(w)}{w-z}$ is still analytic hence by Cauchy Integral Formula we have that $\int_{\Gamma}\frac{g(w)}{w-z}dw = 0$.
 
@Moses You assume that $g$ is analytic on an open set containing $\Gamma$ and all points $z_0$ with $n(\Gamma,z_0) \neq 0$? And "$z$ outside $\Gamma$" means $n(\Gamma,z) = 0$? Then Cauchy's integral theorem says the integral is $0$ (since $\Gamma$ is nullhomologous in the domain where $\frac{g(w)}{w-z}$ is holomorphic).
 
@DanielFischer Was my reasoning incorrect? Except for the details of where $g$ is analytic, I just left that out.
 
@RandomVariable Nope. Substituting $z\mapsto z+i$ and expanding at $0$ is about the best I can think of.
 
2:54 PM
@Moses Incomplete. Probably the reasoning was correct, but you left out some points.
 
@Moses No your reasoning was correct, Daniel was just being more precise
 
@DanielFischer @KevinDriscoll Okay thanks. I know very little Complex Analysis at the moment so I'm just trying to get an idea of how things work.
 
@Balarka Do we have something similar to lagarange theorem for infinite sets ?
 
3:14 PM
@TobiasKildetoft Hey, I'm studying for quals now and have a small question. I'm trying to show the following. Let $G$ be a finite group, $\pi : G \to GL(V)$ an irrep of $G$. Let $\chi$ be the character of $\pi$. If for an element $g \in G$, we have $|\chi(g)| = \dim V$, then there exists $c \in \Bbb{C}$ with $\pi(g)v = cv$ for all $v \in V$.
Here's what I've tried. I know that $\pi(g)$ is diagonalizable with eigenvalues $\lambda_1,\ldots,\lambda_n$, since $G$ is a finite group. Then, the hypothesis and the triangle inequality that all the $\lambda_i$'s have the same complex argument. However, I'm having trouble concluding that all the $\lambda_i$'s are equal to some constant $c$. I haven't used anything about irreducibility yet, and I'm struggling to see how to use it.
 
@dr.MV. no. I spent over 20 years in US but I am now based in India.
 
3:54 PM
@RandomVariable Actually, checking numerically I think there's a typo. the identity is false if one squares the real part of that elliptic integral, but it's true if one takes the real part of the square. so the exponent of 2 should be inside the square brackets.
 
@DanielFischer If we consider the product of two integrals then you can rename it so that $\big(\int f(x) dx\big)\big(\int g(x) dx\big)= \big(\int f(x) dx\big)\big(\int g(y) dy\big)$ hence you take it into the integral and get $\int \big(\int g(y)dy) f(x) dx$. You could also switch the order of the integration. Is this a special case of Fubini's Theorem?
 
@Moses Yes. A pretty trivial case, but you build the general thing from a special case of this special case.
 
He uses a formulation of one multivariable function and a product measure.
 
@Semiclassical Isn't that what I wrote? If not, that's what I meant.
 
what you wrote was $\text{Re }\left[K(m)\right]^2$ on the LHS
but it's clear now anyways
 
4:04 PM
@Semiclassical But wouldn't it then be $\left[ \text{Re} \, K(m)\right]^2 $?
 
i'm reading as $\text{Re}$ itself acting like a function, e.g. $f(x)^2=[f(x)]^2$
so with the square brackets enclosing the argument of the real part, rather than the enclosing brackets being implicit
(or, to put it another way, i'm reading it as though i was putting it in mathematica)
 
4:26 PM
Woah. I just watched Primer.
 
hey @Soham
 
hey, Balarka.
I got nothing done today.
watched a movie.
should've written "finished watching", but whatever.
 
i didn't do much either.
just went through what i learnt yesterday
 
which is? alg top thingies?
 
i didn't just do algebraic topology yesterday.
 
4:30 PM
well, ok.
 
did a lot of commutative algebra too, learnt very, very interesting ideas from the person i talked to.
but yeah, have learnt some topology too.
and then there was that lecture i couldn't make much head or tails of. i'm curious about ergodic number theory now.
 
what ideas?
which person?
did you see the arxiv link? :P
 
the one who solved the Zariski cancellation problem. she's at isi right now.
@SohamChowdhury look at our room
 
@SohamChowdhury there were technical things, but the gist is, she talked about what we can know about the variety from looking at it's coordinate ring.
it's fascinating stuff. you can even tell about "smoothness" of a variety from looking at it's sheaf of rings.
 
4:34 PM
Hello@Soham ,@Balarka
 
@Balarka Do we have something like lagarange theorem for infinite groups
 
what do you even mean by that
 
I mean that lagarnage theorem is only true for finite groups. So is there any way to find the number of left cosets of H ( A subgroup of G) in G for an infinite set G?
 
i guess there's a generalization which involves cardinal numbers, yes
 
4:39 PM
@Semiclassical Yeah, I see why that could be ambiguous. I guess I should have written $\text{Re} \Big( \left[K(m)\right]^{2} \Big) $.
 
@Rememberme also, you mean "group" instead of "set"
 
If $|G| = \kappa$, and $H$ is a subgroup of $G$, then $|H| \eta = \kappa$ for some cardinal $\eta$. Assuming the axiom of choice and that $|G|$ is not finite, this just says "$|H| \leq |G|$". Not very exciting.
 
Yes .. I really should get a habit of that
 
If $|G|$ is finite there are interesting things to be said.
 
@Semiclassical or just $\text{Re} \Big( K(m)^{2}\Big)$
 
4:44 PM
So generally can it be said that doing stuff on finite groups lead to more interesting results than infinite groups?
 
Nah.
 
That's not true. The conclusion is that infinite groups are harder to deal with in this context.
Quotients go mad.
For example, there are infinite groups $G$ with subgroup $H$ such that $G/H \cong G$ even though $H$ is not trivial. This is not quite relevant though.
@MikeMiller I pondered on your problem. My general idea for the less harder problem was a map $K(G, 1) \to X$, where $X$ is simply connected. To get this to work for homology + homotopy, one needs to choose a group $G$ such that $H_n(G)$ vanish for $n > 1$. I am not sure if I know of an acyclic group, yet.
Don't reveal the problem, though. I have not put all of my concentration on it yet.
 
@RandomVariable that works too
don't know how to show it, alas. i think there are two facts which might be helpful, though
one is what i noted earlier: if $m=(1-i\sqrt{3})/2=e^{-i\pi/3},$ then $1-m=(1-i\sqrt{3})/2=e^{i\pi/3}=\overline{m}$
so in this case the complementary integral and the conjugate integral coincide ($K'(m)=\overline{K(m)}$), which is cute
the other is this discussion from Mathworld: mathworld.wolfram.com/EllipticIntegralSingularValue.html
and playing around in that vein, i come up with $K'(m)=-i m K(m)$. (alas, mathematica recognizes that only at the numerical level)
and from that, i get an identity for $K(m)$ itself, namely that $K(m)=Re^{i\pi/12}$ where $R$ is a positive real constant related to the one you gave in yours
which is pretty neat
 
5:13 PM
@BalarkaSen: Acyclic groups are the wrong approach. Those are very, very rare.
 
I realized
 
@Semiclassical Besides at $m=-1$, are there any other points on the unit circle where $K(m)$ can be expressed in terms of gamma function values ?
 
well, given what I just said, evidently $m=e^{i\pi/3}$ is an example
which would make me hope that there's something similar for other roots of unity, but i don't rightly know
given what was on that Mathworld page, i'd speculate that any root of unity will give rise to a $K'/K$ ratio which is expressible in closed form
but then i don't know about any identity of the kind you observed, so the method above doesn't seem to give anything
 
5:32 PM
Hello!! Is someone of you familiar wih the undecidability of existential theory?
 
@Semiclassical I imagine there must be a paper out there about elliptic integrals and roots of unity.
 
@Semiclassical The identity is related to the definite integral $\int_{0}^{\infty} J_{0}(x)^{3} \, dx$ where $J_{0}(x)$ is the Bessel function of the first kind of order zero.
 
i imagine it'll be something generalizing the stuff in the Mathworld page, but with an eye towards equation (1) rather than the restriction to (2)
ahh
 
@Semiclassical There is an generalization of that integral on the main site, but the evaluation relies heavily on Mathematica. What does Mathematica return for that integral?
 
5:49 PM
it gives an answer in terms of Meijer-G functions, ew
to be precise
>MeijerG[{{1}, {1, 1}}, {{1/2, 1/2}, {1/2}}, 1/4]/Sqrt[[Pi]]
and it doesn't seem interested in simplifying that
 
Evening.
Just dropped by to share this gem of humour.
There's still some hope for the world.
 
that is rather nice, heh
 
Does someone have an idea for my question:
4
Q: $F[t]$ has undecidable positive existential theory in the language $\{+, \cdot , 0, 1, t\}$

Mary StarConsider the ring $F[t, t^{-1}]$ (the polynomials in $t$ and $t^{-1}$ with coefficients in the field $F$). Theorem 1. Assume that the characteristic of $F$ is zero. Then the existential theory of $F[t, t^{-1}]$ in the language $\{+, \cdot , 0, 1, t\}$ is unecidable. Theorem 2. Assu...

?
 
6:45 PM
soft-question : how do you guys write $\mathfrak{S}$ on paper?
 
In practice one often doesn't write in mathfrak. One writes in Kurrent instead, a German script.
 
@MikeMiller :/ I'd rather write fraktur instead... those things are unreadable.
 
1) So is Fraktur. 2) The point is ease of communication, which includes speed of writing. If you have to learn to read Fraktur, it doesn't take long to learn to read Kurrent.
 
But if I had to write $\mathfrak S$, I'd just start at the top and follow the line.
 
ah, that's much better, thanks @MikeMiller
@Lard_Farin That'll soon turn it into an ugly looking thing. If you speed up while writing that, it'll turn into a giant sized $\sigma$
 
6:51 PM
Every algebraist I've seen actually write things that are normally mathfrak on the board either writes in Kurrent or just writes in standard Roman script.
And for things like $\mathfrak p$? Writing in Roman script can be confusing.
 
I use $\wp$ for writing that.
But Pedro uses something Japanese, which was not quite of my taste.
 
Not far off from the Kurrent.
 
ah, indeed
 
@MikeMiller When I took algebraic number theory, $\mathfrak p$ was ordinarily written by underlining a Roman $p$.
 
An outrage!
 
6:56 PM
That'd just be confusing. (I learnt writing \wp from my algebraic number theory course too!)
 
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