It's the first time I see that.

Okay, I'm currently tweaking options; I've always used the same set of options for the cartoons, which is why what you and joriki are seeing is puzzling to me...

(Can I have other Guinea pigs, please? Could you check the image I gave t.b. in a previous comment?)

@JM It worked for me, but I'm running Linux/Chrome

I'm on Linux; it looks to be fine in both Firefox and Opera...

@JM what are the FPS that you're rendering it at?

@JM I looked through the animations I linked to here and they all look fine to me. The red curves in the "circles running along a parabola" wiggle a tiny little bit, but I guess that's a problem with antialiasing more than with the format of the file.

@t.b. Yes, there's some wiggle there; I used an old version of Mathematica for those and the output is not as crisp...

@process: let me check my settings...

@tb Is that any better

(Sorry for putting it inline, that's really annoying. I didn't know what the upload button would do. I'll remove it in a second)

No the previous one was much better. This one is about as bad as the original one.

ok, nevermind then

@JM Related: forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=210782

Huh. I can't seem to see how to set frame rate. In any event, if you exploded the image, you'll see it has 15 frames...

Weird, I got 22 when I exploded it

The one I gave t.b. just now has 22 frames.

gotcha

The 15 frames one is the one in my answer.

Hmm, delays... they tend to be a mixed bag here so I generally avoid them...

@JM: For me, the second one you posted really looks fine. There is a hiccup in only one frame, while in the original about half of them are distorted.

t.b. Okay, so you and joriki are Apple guys... :)

I seem to recall that joriki several times gave the specs of his box in some computationally intensive things he did.

I'm a bit hampered by not having an Apple, but since you say the new one looks better, I'll replace.

And yes, I'm faithful to apple, since the very first 9'' macintosh :) However, the existence of the AppStore makes me reconsider.

Seriously annoying

@tb So I'm told. :)

Actually I eliminated that bloated piece of ad-rubbish from my boxes entirely, but developers now want you to pay a buck for the tiniest little snippet of code they upload to the web. So, if I'm using unix-tools only anyway, I see little reason to keep being faithful to that moloch.

I wonder where Srivatsan is... he'd be another data point, since he's also an Apple guy...

@tb Makes you think: are they genuinely hungry, or just looking for a quick buck?

@JM Well, I think you have to pay for being allowed to sign your code and upload it to the AppStore (and then you're still at their mercy whether they decide to allow it or not). So, I understand that they try to amortize their investments, then the first time it works out well, they benefit, so if you can earn money that way, why not?

That's at least what I believe to be the way this machine works. Not much to do with being hungry.

"you're still at their mercy whether they decide to allow it" - ah, now I remember. That's what some Slashdotters have been harping about I recall.

What is meaning of completely multiplicative functions? I am referring to this question math.stackexchange.com/q/76345/16980

@Ramana: Completely multiplicative function means f(ab) = f(a) f(b) for all integers a and b as opposed to multiplicative functions where this is required for coprime a and b only.

@JM see this:

that's the only shift I see (it's frame 9)

What did you use to explode the GIF?

I used Apple's preview app (which runs the same engine as the one used by Safari)

Tsk, after running it through ImageMagick, all the frames look as they were in Mathematica. I don't know what Apple's doing here... sorry. :(

@JM we observe that a lion has at least the connectivity of the torus. I like it

@J.M. Are you still looking for guinea pigs? :)

Seems like you were looking for one with an Apple.

Yes, Yes I am. Could you check this, if you don't mind?

Looks fine.

No jumps? (See for instance t.b.'s example above.)

No, it looks good to me

Let me see it in Windoze and compare.

Looks identical.

It wouldn't depend on the browser, would it?

In any case, I use Chrome.

chrome!

joriki and t.b. report problems with Safari.

safari (

Ok, experiment 3 with safari.

Oh yes, the jump!

I too see it in Safari.

So, Gortaur, what browser do you use?

FF? Opera?

Oh dear, not IE I hope...

(Just kidding.)

oh dear, I use Chrome!

and Firefox when I have too much important tabs in Chrome

Okay, I'm alright with three samples. Thanks Srivatsan!

You're welcome, of course, J.M.

and IE when I should visit websites whose designers has a contract with MS

and they do not perform properly in other browsers

Yes, hopefully all that'll change soon.

Many days, I open my computer only for Chrome.

Chrome!

In any case, I think I will get back to work. Too early in the morning to be slacking off. :)

it is really cool, you know )

:) Okay then, off to work with you! :)

I have only one vote left again

Pfft, I used mine up hours ago... :D

you have about 6k votes overall

nothing surprising :Ъ

Yes, if my account is ever removed, there'll be great drops in rep for most of you guys... ;P

Liberal voter... Hi-fi!

@JM are you serious?

Actually, the way I go about it's quite simple: it I can understand it, and I like it, I upvote.

J.M., my votes per day count seems to be higher. I will overtake you one day.

@Gortaur You know that thing where the rep you got from a user goes away when that user is deleted?

@SrivatsanNarayanan Not a bad goal to aspire to. :)

@JM nope

Ah, man. That doesn't make much sense.

aha

i've lost between 300 and 400 rep from deleted users

@JackSchmidt hello

Oh, wow! It can be so significant, is it?

I don't understand why it's that way either. When a certain user had his account deleted a few months ago, I lost a thousand or so rep...

J.M., if you lost a thousand reps, then that user must have been established here.

Will it to be too much to be curious?

Well, he returned now. Unfortunately the rep never did... :)

@JM I guess I should fire with this topic on meta before you will leave us ;D

I won't be leaving anytime soon, don't worry. It's still fun to be here...

Gortaur, You can count on my vote already. :)

ok )

@JM who knows )) we cannot risk in such cases ))

@Gortaur ...especially when the reps are at stake. ;)

@JM though if you leave I will lose much more from the lack of you in this chat, than from the rep you gave me with upvotes

...that's very nice of you to say.

@JM that's nice )

my first sentence was a bit unclear I guess

I got you. No worries.

I imagine the question on meta which I ask: 'Recently JM told me he wants to leave [permalink on your message here]. As you know he has about 6k upvotes, so in concerns all of us: about 50k rep will be lost. Either you guys change the rules, or you froze his account, or you will f***ing regret'

@Gortaur I starred that message to show I second it.

I see I see

Don't get your blood pressure too high. It's just numbers. :)

@JM I was kidding as you may guess

Okay, just being cautious. :)

@JM Don't you think numbers have a meaning? :)

...about freezing your account

@SrivatsanNarayanan man, you're mathematician. of course, they don't

Depends on what meaning you're attaching to them. :)

Well, that got a little overboard I guess. I will stop for now.

(Telling myself.) I mean, really stop.

@Srivatsan: hi, didn't you want to go and prove some theorems, a while ago? :)

@tb don't provoke him )

@tb Hurriedly leaves the room like ey never heard you.

@SrivatsanNarayanan sooo hurriedly

Yes, I think I heard a sonic boom...

@tb for 1st countable Hausdorff spaces limit point compactness implies sequential compactness

reading the proof I failed to find the moment when the Hausdorff property was used

I don't think we need the distinction of limit points of sequence in this case even implicitly

@Gortaur: for one thing Hausdorff guarantees uniqueness of the limit x and it also guarantees that every neighborhood contains infinitely many points distinct of x

got it, tanks

@Gortaur: why remove the () in this edit? I think that leaving them out is confusing in a lot of cases.

@robjohn I used to see that for all trigonometric function with a simple single argument brackets are not used

you think I should return them?

I don't know if it is necessary in this case. If I were editing the OP and the parens were not there, I would have probably added them.

Just a preference, I guess.

maybe

I would just leave it, unless you have more changes.

@robjohn: I see, you're on a *please don't edit out parens or curly braces, please*-riff :p

Good morning, by the way!

@tb: have you seen this? math.stackexchange.com/posts/76090/revisions

@tb: I just didn't see the reason to remove them, but perhaps I am being too critical. I don't think that there is anyone who won't be able to read the question.

@Gortaur: I've seen worse...

@tb: now I think that is ridiculous

icic

@robjohn: did you see the comment I made?

I just couldn't believe it.

@tb which comment?

ah

@robjohn: that one

I see it.

second it (nineth it)

it's now tenthed

I have a kind of hate to people who writes expectation and probability just as E and P without any special font

and I'm trying to be warm to those who use \mathbb instead of \mathsf for that notation

ooh, I just noticed that hitting up-arrow enters the editing of my last comment. :-)

@robjohn a?

@Gortaur I had always been editing messages by clicking the triangle to the left of the message and then having to click edit. It took a longer time. I just accidentally hit the up-arrow in my browser and it put me in the edit mode for my last message.

it does work, hm

:-) even when your comment is not the last one.

gravatar of @tb reminds one symbol quite well-known in 1930s-1940s. But in green it's optimistic

@robjohn I wonder if I'm the only guy who has such reminds

Does it look green now or then? It looks purple to me now. I don't recognize the symbol.

purple? now?

@Srivatsan: you've done your best. Welcome back

Feeling withdrawal effects already. :)

@Gortaur tb's gravatar looks purple on my screen

@SrivatsanNarayanan withdrawal from what?

@robjohn can you show me the screenshot?

From MSE (and of late, the chatroom). :)

@robjohn naively he thought he can escape it more the for half an hour )

But don't worry, I will be out in a minute. Have to run to a class anyway and grab some lunch before that.

hm, that is his previous one

perhaps I need to refresh my window...

when I click on it, I get a window with a green one.

yeah

I meant that one

Do you guys have no work at all? ;)

(Just kidding, of course.)

Yep, it's green now. :-)

@SrivatsanNarayanan no, for today I've got 245 on MSE so I can relax ;D

Colorful guy, that tb. And he blames his IP address for that.

honestly, I've just finished 2 papers, my supervisor reads 3rd one and I have some time to read about topology

in the meantime I talk to you guys

I will leave in 7 minutes

Howdy folks.

and see you all tomorrow

@AsafKaragila he-he

I have to pack to go to Borrego Springs in a few hours.

@AsafKaragila good afternoon

@SrivatsanNarayanan I don't think he blames it too much

@Gortaur Nice to hear that (about that papers). I was wondering how best to apportion the time between MSE and the rest of the world.

@SrivatsanNarayanan 0/100 but since - is infinitely small you never reach it, you can just approach. Like you tried today ))

You know what? I'm going to take a nap. Ciao.

@AsafKaragila How's your cold, Asaf?

@AsafKaragila nap well

Getting better, I went to the university today and whatnot.

Alas, I am tired and cranky and I have a long night of finding that proof I need. So... sleepy time.

@AsafKaragila is it cold outside?

@AsafKaragila I hear proofs are terrible substitutes for sleep. Is it true after all?

bye, folks

I'll check in later. It might not be until I am in Borrego Springs.

Have a good day.

I'm done for today. See you guys!

See you @JM, sleep well!

@Jack: oh, I see you've just joined the 10k-club, congratulations! As promised a few threads containing spam of sorts.

Taking a break from packing.

things seem pretty quiet here.

Ah, I see why: @Asaf is napping :-p

@Jack: 10K+13. Get some more rep if you're superstitious. :-)

@tb whoa crazy

back to packing. later all (when you wake up :)

@Jack: well, that's about all you can see, spam-wise. So, you haven't missed much...

@robjohn Ohh, I do see another question I can answer... today's just been busy. I planned on getting my bounty tomorrow instead of today. So my whole rep-recalc to drop below 10k is out of whack

Well, there's no use trying to deny that anymore. I'm awake...

@Gortaur It's not hot anymore... and since I live in the desert the temperature drops fast and it's easy to catch a cold during these days.

@SrivatsanNarayanan Only partially :-)

@Asaf and which city?

Beer Sheva

+16 .. +26

the hottest days here in Leiden were in August, with this temperature

Yeah, in the early summer we have like 20 at night, 40 during the day. Talk about a nasty summer cold.

@AsafKaragila: I'm from Volgograd, so there you have cool June but from 20th of June till 20th of August there are no rains

so it is 28 in the night and 40-42 in the day

I can understand you a bit

Fun. This is our usual mid-summer.

steppe

I want to live abroad for at least one winter where when they say "Three days of rains" they mean actually raining for three days straight.

I really appreciated mild European climate - but here it's too much a bit

Here if they say three days of rain, they mean occasional showers for three days with a possible intermittent sunny hours.

icic. there are really cool rain weeks in Volgograd in October

@Asaf: You should come to Zurich in November - then you'll be happy to see the sun just once for a quarter of an hour

you may start hating them, but everything is so melancholic

@tb we can argue who see the sun more often

Oh, I am fine with these sort of moods.

They go great with depressive black metal, post-drone metal and old school drone metal.

@AsafKaragila I love them. And I miss it here: here it is depressive rather than melancholic

surprisingly there is a difference

anyway, what is the Big Water to the East from Beer Sheva?

I can assure you that if your personality has this sort of disposition you will find melancholic and depressive moods in every winter.

You mean the Dead Sea?

@tb But... no beer!!! :\

@AsafKaragila Well, then I'd say, go to Tornedalen. There you have everything: -40 degrees, no sun during 4 months and moreover those guys are the people who invented that kind of cr... er.. music

What do you mean, no beer?

@tb I'm curious as well

You said the pubs in Zurich are not that much of an attraction.

But they still have beer.

Theo, is he right?

Well yeah, but I want good pubs as well. Although my definition of a good pub is mostly different.

Well, I may have exaggerated. But Zurich is not known for excessive partying. Nevertheless you can spend the whole night outside and there are some decent pubs and bars as well.

@AsafKaragila: so you're quite close to the desert, right? you're living in very south of Israel

@tb that's the point. I usually don't need partying - but there just should be some places

Not the very south, but yeah. I'm on the edge of the desert. I love it, too. I pick the desert over the sea any given day (and even more so at night)

I just imagined you as Luke Skywalker staring at the night desert of Tatuin

Haha.

I love sea very much, though I didn't have it in my home city

sea and mountains

I was going to Black Sea for 1-2 weeks every summer when I was a kid and I had a dream to appear there in the Fall

I am not a fan of the forests too. I like desolate barren lands. Whether by heat or by cold. I just like them deserts...

@AsafKaragila you should have love tundra then )

I should think so.

as for me I want to visit trueЪ Scandinavia like Island or Norway fjords

I've almost gotten PhD positions in both places )

I could imagine how would I complain about the weather in that case though

@Asaf: As I said, go to Tornedalen :)

First I need money for traveling. Do you know if they're gonna have a set theory conference there soon?

@tb he is not a fan of forests

@AsafKaragila if you find how to apply it to finance stuff (and successfully) that may solve that problem

and bring others

I rather not :D

razor not

Hooray!

Breakthrough!!

If Tx+x in some subspace E, then on the direct complement of E we have T=Id.

Oh, wait. Not a breakthrough. Damn.

What on earth are you saying?

@AsafKaragila Do you mean Tx-x is in a subspace E?

Yeah, but over {0,1} we have +x = -x

@tb: I'm trying to solve that thing I'm stuck with from last night.

I am determined to find this proof. It should give me a nice boost to get off my arse and start working on my thesis.

Heck, it may become my thesis...

@AsafKaragila If only everything were this semi-simple. :-)

@JackSchmidt What do you mean?

cool, but why did you downgrade the theorem from its breakthrough status?

Asaf: If Tx - x is in E for all x in V, then T on V/E is the identity, but that doesn't mean T stabilizes a direct complement to E

Because I thought that this would help me bring contradiction. It will, but not yet :D

Jack: Well, what you don't know yet is that T is a linear automorphism of V.

So let W be the direct complement of E, write v=e+w. We have that Tv+v = Te+Tw+e+w in E, since Te+e in E, Te in E. So Tw+w=0, so Tw=w.

Congrats @Jack on your five-digit rep.

@AsafKaragila Suppose V = { 0, a, b, a+b }, E = { 0, a }, T(a) = a, T(b) = a+b. Then T(a)-a = 0 in E, T(b)-b = a+b-b=a in E, T(a+b)-(a+b) = 0-a = a in E. So T satisfies the hypothesis. However, T does not act as the identity on any direct complement of E: T(b) ≠ b, T(a+b)=b ≠ a+b.

@SrivatsanNarayanan Thanks!

(The pun meant: T is a non-split extension of two copies of the simple Z/2Z-module, so is not semi-simple.)

Hmm....

...jerk. Now I have to think on a whole new direction.

:P

:P modular reps are hard. counting mod 2 should be easier, but sometimes (like this) it is harder.

@Jack: that's why for me everything happens over the real or the complex numbers. Analysis is so much easier!

Well, when you want a space with automorphisms you need a field without nontrivial scalars! :-)

Did you guys see Gerry's comment here? I believe he needs a 3D version of robjohn's gravatar...

lol

Cubed mean?

@Jack: So if I have this automorphism that Tx+x in E, for all x in V, what can I say about T's behaviour outside of E?

And while I'm at it, the norm guy's back...

@tb Norm guy is back? That was his first question, wasn't it?

Ah, I see what you mean.

@AsafKaragila I'm not sure. If you make E part of the basis, then you get [ 1, X ; 0, Y] as the block form of the matrix. I think X is the bad part for you. Y is just what it does on E.

What matrix? We're talking about really big infinities for the dimension of V and only slightly smaller for the dimension of E.

outside of E, T(x) = x + (some crazy thing in E)

Asaf: i think it is ok in infinite dimensions, as long as E is closed

or there is no topology

There's no real notion of topology either.

@tb Why is it that so many post questions at MO first? Is it more popular or something?

yeah, everything is fine then, i think

You can take the discrete if you want :P

but my matrix just says T( e, w ) = w + crazy-thing-in-E

@SrivatsanNarayanan My guess is that people want to ask "the pros" and MO is "where the pros are"...

(if you follow my group theory posts, "crazy-thing-in-E" is the glue or cohomology)

I see, asking in MO does have its pros...

I don't even know what a cohomology is, apart of the general notion of the syntactical definition.

@SrivatsanNarayanan I don't know. You need not be, if you ask a well-thought out and well-crafted question the worst that can happen is that people tell you, okay maybe this is a bit elementary, although elementary depends on the field. Ask something simple in topology or analysis and people will respond. Ask something simple in commutative algebra and people will tear you to pieces...

@AsafKaragila no need to know it for this for sure, just an aside

I think I might have to know slightly more about that "crazy thing" of yours.

@AsafKaragila Crazy thing is an arbitrary homomorphism from V to E

@SrivatsanNarayanan: I agree with tb on that. I often ask questions in set theory which may be relatively trivial but I do my best to put them in a good form and they do tend to gather quite some upvotes from time to time :-)

i've found m.se answers to be more helpful to me in general

@Jack: I don't know, I didn't get any, so far!

@JackSchmidt Aha, so I can say that T=Id+S where S is not an automorphism anymore, and T|_E = S|_E?

On MO I received three nice answers, at least...

@asaf: yup

@tb You got two nice answers here :D

Well, thanks, but I'd have preferred answers by others...

Actually, I find it quite difficult to ask good questions. I haven't gotten the hang of it. Whenever there's something I'd like to ask, I tend to research it myself, and thus find an answer myself. Or things become so technical that I am doubtful that it can be framed into a reasonable question, be it here or on MO.

I have some questions which I think may be excellent for m.SE but I feel somewhat embarrassed to post them since I'm certain that with some elementary reading I can answer them on my own.

@tb I definitely agree. I tried partial researching for the subdegree 4 thing. Derek's answer helps, because the papers are a little badly organized, and you really have to read all of them to be able to find the proof of the theorem stated in the math review.

I made it easy for someone to do what I had done, but hopefully with different experience. They saw different things than I did, and it helped.

@Jack: Well, I guess you're lucky that there are some really good people in group theory around. I'm sure that exchanges with Alex, Derek or Steve can be very helpful. Unfortunately, I haven't seen Geoff in a while...

i need my 10k on MO. he had some very good answers there he deleted

i have revisions of them because I make notes on my questions, but he improved them after, and then they were gone

Well, I'd be happy to give you my points if that's possible. Then you only need about 1k more....

I worry a little the next generation is too busy. Very few of the grad students here have time for other people's problems.

THough I guess Steve, Alex, Derek span a nice time period. Maybe most people are too busy.

I just spent a very painful time on this question. The OP apparently doesn't even know what some of the basic notation means, and he also didn't realize that the picture he was trying to compare to a discussion in his textbook was talking about a different problem.

Reminds me of joriki's lament on meta a while back about people trying to tackle advanced topics before even understanding the basics. Ugh.

@tb And simple is in the eye of the beholder, too. I've seen some basic questions on optimization posted on MO that didn't get torn apart - probably because most of the user base doesn't know a lot about optimization. I imagine that holds for some other subjects, too.

@Mike: Oh my...

@t.b.: As I said, painful. That may be the worst set of misconceptions I've attempted to deal with on math.SE so far.