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00:04
I wonder how long before the second page of users sorted by rep would be entirely composed of 10k users...
A while.
If I have a vector space over {0,1} what can I say on the additive group of this vector space?
Well, you have no choice, right?
Assume that I do.
Then it's just \{0,1\}^something
00:09
yes: all modules are free over a field
(choose a basis)
Suppose 2^omega = aleph_2, then {0,1}^X \neq aleph_1. However there will be some aleph_1-dimensional space.
sorry meant: \bigoplus \{0,1\}
Well, the order of all the elements is 2, right?
yes, but if you don't have a basis it can't be of that form...
However all elements will still have order 2.
00:15
yes
Good. Now suppose Tx\neq x, for some automorphism T. How many elements are moved by this?
Also, TTx\neq x.
don't think you can say much without further information. at least x, Tx, TTx and sums thereof
Shouldn't the order of T, if finite, by at least even if not a power of 2?
no, you can just permute three basis vectors cyclically
Oh right right.
00:19
I don't know, but maybe it helps to think of your vector space as boolean algebra?
Dammit... I'm starting to fear a possible mistake here.
Boolean algebra in what sense?
sorry back to thinking of 2^something
In a Boolean algebra x+x=x, in 2-vector spaces x+x=0.
as I said, I was back to thinking 2^something again
:)
@tb : Hah, I didn't remember my own question there.
00:53
The only thing I will be happy about if my work will turn up as a mistake and a counterexample will be found is that I did not succeed in proving something wrong.
With these final words, I have six hours of sleep left, I should use them to get better from this annoying cold.
@Asaf: Good night!
01:15
I have to step out too. Good day!
 
3 hours later…
04:42
Um, was anyone familiar with the term mass-point geometry before this question appeared? math.stackexchange.com/questions/76242/…
Besides I didn't follow the title: "This is the most difficult question I could get without using mass point geometry. Thanks in advance?" Any guesses what the OP means?
Hi Carolus
 
2 hours later…
06:56
Hmmm...
If I have an automorphism of a vector space, T, and a subspace such that (T+id)/E = 0. What can I say about T?
I mean, is it even consistent to have that? In particular I'm interested in vector spaces over {0,1}.
What is E?
A subspace of the vector space.
So T(x,y)=(x,-y) and E=t(1,0) something like that?
Yes. Something like that.
However this is an infinite dimension vector space over {0,1}, so this trick may work to a lesser extent.
Since y=-y in this context, so T described is the identity automorphism.
 
1 hour later…
08:12
when I was younger, @tb changed his gravatar rarely
how much younger?
about 1 month
@robjohn good night
good night
I wonder what bothered Michael so much
I have seen similar changes to my answers. I don't know.
08:19
convex lens against a random background, hm
It doesn't seem as if the changes would make that much visual difference.
I remember him talking about ... vs \dots once, but removing the {} around an argument, that is just weird.
2
I could understand if there was a typo - and then he decided to change all other stuff. But he changed only dots and {}, phuh
btw, have you found your number in the chatroom?
other than the two that are at the bottom of my profile?
1 and 2552?
08:25
that's just number of rooms you've attended and messages you've written
maybe I understood Asaf's talks] in the wrong way
But someone said they had 30 for the supposed number of rooms, and they had never been to that many.
Yes, I remember that. I am uncertain what the lower left number means. I know that Asaf says it is the number of rooms attended, but others say it isn't.
you can just put your cursor on that number ot activate pop-up
I know that, but it doesn't seem to be that for some people.
08:32
check it out: math.stackexchange.com/questions/76296/… Sentence 'For fixed...'
what is the problem with it?
For the first time I have a hangover after beer on the weekday (
fortunately, tea with lemon helped a bit
my companion was telling me that category theory didn't acquit expectations people lad on it, so I need to switch to is radio-wave
in their opinion, or in general?
I've never looked at category theory
in his opinion
@robjohn me as well
it seems that on MSE there are a lot of fans of CT though
They can still live normal lives
there are treatments.
08:42
which treatments
for people who study category theory
Do they involve electroshocks?
@JonasTeuwen I've been once to the doctor in Delft. Seems that he would like to use that kind of treatment
@JonasTeuwen in severe cases
@Gortaur Haha!
@robjohn Nice.
08:47
@JonasTeuwen honestly speaking, I told him my about how bad I feel, and then he asked me what is the possible diagnosis
Oh, right, here people often look things up on the internet, so the doctors ask what you would think.
And after that they can say: No, that can't be the case because... etc.
(or they agree)
@JonasTeuwen exclusion method?
most doctors I have talked to hate the self-diagnosing that people do.
@robjohn I agree
No, some just want to listen to what the patient thinks is wrong.
08:50
no way: I've come to you, you have medical education, ask me about my feelings, tell me that I need to make blood analysis, then tell me what is the diagnosis
@robjohn What is their explanation for hating that?
Sure, they should do that, but I think it is some cultural thing...
they think that a quick search on the internet is no substitute for medical training.
@JonasTeuwen because then 1. you may imagine that you're sick from stuff that you're not sick of, 2. you will argue with them about the diagnosis proving it with the Internet
@robjohn +100500
Of course, it is no substitute.
and the things that Gortaur just said.
08:52
But -at least here- people like to be heard so that's why some ask about it.
@JonasTeuwen he told me that I should take some pills of paracetamol, and come after two weeks. Also he told me that I shouldn't worry since Dutch reanimation is perfect
They will not really use that in their judgment.
that's nice
That's a bit strange, @Gortaur :D.
dutch zombies...
08:54
that fits all the stories about family doctors here that I've heard from my colleagues ;)
But that is not how it usually goes, at least, how I have experienced it.
then I should ask you which doctor do you use )
Then he probably thought nothing serious was wrong and it would go away by itself, but that is strange way of saying it.
The doctor at the student health care.
Last time, he kept asking me if I ran into some "risk" (he meant STDs I suppose). I had to convince him I didn't. Then he still give me an address for an anonymous test.
@JonasTeuwen maybe his past does not allow him to trust you )
Hmm, not really. Maybe he thought something like: This sounds like an STD. He is a student. Students are often promiscuous. 1 + 1 = 2.
09:03
1+1+1=3
@JonasTeuwen when I was a student, the only promiscuous student lived in the student hostels
that's why that was quite cool the live there, he-he
I saw some research about the promiscuity of students, and it seemed like the medicine students were the most promiscuous. Maybe he's projecting...
@AlexeiAverchenko Ночь, улица, фонарь, аптека...
09:20
Hey guys!
@tb hey-hey
how is life
Can somebody explain to me what this is all about? I don't see the point and I'm tempted to vote the "answer" down, but I restrained myself so far...
@tb sometimes people post comment as answer if they don't have enough rep to put it as a comment
btw, not such a bad comment I would say. This all about you mean tread of comments to this comment-answer?
Sure, I understand what happened. But why on earth does he have to expand on that comment again and again instead of just deleting it and posting it as a comment?
btw, from when can you put comments? he put this answer a week ago and now he has 1.2 k
09:27
Hey @tb.
@gortaur I think you can comment everywhere once you get 50 rep.
You need about 50 rep I guess.
@yunone hi! htanks
sure thing
then he lies I guess. for the last week he have not +1k
so he could put it as a comment
09:30
@Gortaur I leave it to you to figure out what exactly happened: this hint should suffice
Hi @Jonas
Hi @yunone
I'm too suspicious
what do you mean
Hey @t.b.
@tb I mean that apparently he didn't lie, while I suspected that he did
No he didn't lie. Why should he?
09:34
ok, the guy with 1.2k of rep writes that he don't have enough rep to put comments. What can be the reason? I didn't know that his computer crashed
At least you didn't call him out on it prematurely, so crisis averted.
Exactly, my point is: why doesn't he move his comment to the comment section now?
Why does he add pointless stuff to his answer and tempt obnoxious guys like me to pile a further downvote on it?
@tb I guess because he is pissed off about the reaction
or maybe he don't know
Well, whatever
or maybe he does not want to miss one +1
@tb Indeed
09:39
I guess he did get a net gain of +2 rep.
@tb which kind of beer do you have in Switzerland?
@yunone: that's why I'm tempted...
I mean, if there is local beer or mostly German beers?
@Gortaur: Well, we've got a lot of local "beer" but I don't like it that much, at least the most common ones
Much of it is owned by Heineken now...
@tb but you like beer at all, or not?
@tb ;(((
in Russia Heineken was cool, fancy beer. I thought here it would be even better, but no
09:42
Oh, I do like beer, quite a bit, but I don't like the most common Swiss beers: Feldschlösschen, Hürlimann, Calanda, etc too much. They are quite bitter.
What are your beers of choice then?
Well, we had a Belgian prof who said: Heineken is no beer, it's mineral water...
@tb icic. I've recently switched from Belgium beers (sorry, @Jonas) to stuff like Guiness and red Irish because latter has so pure taste
That's what people say about budweiser over here.
I really tired even of Duvel
09:44
Well, there's this Monty Python bonmot:
American beer is just like sex in a canoe: it's f***ing close to water.
There are estimates that there are like 8700 Belgian beers.
You probably didn't try all of them. There are about 800 standard ones.
@JonasTeuwen I really appreciate Delirium cafe
though I understand that I cannot try all of them
Maybe you should try the Dutch beer "Hel en verdoemenis" (hell and damnation). According to ratebeer.com it is the best Dutch beer.
@yunone I'm pretty open to any beer, I can't say what I like most. Probably German white beer, I guess, but without Ales and black beer life would be sad...
I have not decided yet if it is wonderful or disgusting.
09:47
@JonasTeuwen have you ever find in Delft?
like in Trappeist?
I find Belgian beer funny, especially amber beer, like Mort Subite
What do you mean with that, @Gortaur?
I mean, Belgium beer is tasty without any doubts, but in Russia I preferred Czech lagers
Never had one of those, I think.
they have a plenty of beers
09:49
Right, never went there.
@tb it certainly becomes funny after 4-5 glasses of 9 degree beer which you can drink as easy as juice
I hope they have Hell and Damnation. But if I drink two of those, I have trouble getting home.
@JonasTeuwen have you tried Delirium Tremens (the beer, pink elephants)
Yes, of course!
With the grey bottle, if I'm not mistaken.
I tried it only from tap
but then I really had problems to reach Brussels Centraal
and then 2 hrs in the train, brrr
09:51
Haha.
though I like Brussels a bit more then Amsterdam
Hmm, I'm not sure which one I like more.
e.g. Red Lights District appeared soooo vulgar and banal
even not spicy
I went to one strip-bar there. Man, that was awful
Oh right, but that is the most touristic part of Amsterdam.
The rest is nicer :).
I liked NEMO and Amsterdam ship
I liked the boat trip with channel houses
09:55
I find Amsterdam depressing
but walking around... so boring
in Brussels it's just nice to walk for me
there are hills... not flat landscape, can you imagine it
Oh, I just go to the beer cafes and excellent coffee bars in Amsterdam. I tend to avoid the more touristic spots.
@tb Zurich is more lovely?
I find it more beautiful, yes. Amsterdam always was a bit grey for me
I wanted to go to Zurich, but it seems like it is very expensive...
09:57
Then these houses that are built so as to appear bigger than they actually are. Reminds me of Kafka.
Yes, Zurich is extremely expensive
@tb I can say it about any Dutch city. Even Den Haag, even Rotterdam
even Leiden, unfortunately (
then was so surprising after Sweden - there everything was full of light, green etc. You can walk around everywhere and you relax. Even in the winter when the daylight stops and 3-4 pm it was not as grey
I liked Stockholm a lot.
@tb but as I know, PhD salaries there are also like +50% bigger than in Netherlands for example
@tb me too. My father works at KTH so I gone there a couple of times to visit him. Nice place
And the ones in The Netherlands seem to be +100% of some in the US :-).
@JonasTeuwen or in Germany ) I heard that there it's about 800 EUR/month
10:03
Ugh.
on the other hand, in INRIA they offered me a bit bigger than in Delft - but the project was about stuff boring for me a bit
@Gortaur with that kind of money you could just pay a halfways decent flat around here, but the food isn't accounted for, yet.
@tb have you been to Norway?
@Gortaur: Well, I was once in Oslo for two days, but I wouldn't count that as having been to Norway
@tb are you an Assistant Prof. or a PostDoc?
10:05
Post Doc
@tb icic. I have a plan to rent a house on a fjord for a week. should be... cool. It should be cool
Yes, that must be very nice. I once wanted to do a bike trip through the fjords, but unfortunately we didn't manage to do it after all
@tb sad to know. Though on one PhD salary with my wife we also just was at the zero level with all rental stuff, insurance and food
@Gortaur: is your wife Russian, too?
(if you don't mind my asking a personal question)
@tb yes, she is. I don't mind: I wouldn't hesitate to tell you that some questions are outside of the scope of the discussion, so ask whatever you want )
are you married?
10:11
No, I'm not. Won't, unless there are children on the way.
@tb you will not marry until you will want to have a child? Sorry, I didn't understand you I guess
I would only marry if my partner insisted or if we decided to have children
aha
there were times when men were insisting ) now they gone
@tb how to prove that nested sequence of non-empty compacts in the compact space has a compact intersection?
what is the problem?
oh, sorry. non-empty intersection
about compactness it's trivial as closed subset of a compact
10:23
Ah, I guess you need to add closed if you're not in a Hausdorff space
hm-pum-pum
I need to prove that the countable nested sequence of closed, compact, non-empty subsets of a compact space has a non-empty intersection.
Well, the intersection is closed, right?
yes
and compact
Ah, non-emptyness is now the issue
exactly
10:28
If the intersection were empty, the complements would give an open cover of the largest compact set without finite subcover
because any finite subcover will not contain the complement of the biggest set in this subcover, right?
Yes.
here we don't use that the overall space is compact, compactness of the first term in the sequence is sufficient
Yes.
It's called the finite intersection property: If a collection of closed sets in a compact space has the property that every finite intersection is non-empty then the entire intersection is non-empty
we can prove it by considering the nested sequence of finite intersection, right?
and reducing this new case to the one with the nested sequence we just discussed
10:35
You don't have to assume nestedness: just pass to complements. If the intersection were empty, you'd have an open cover without finite subcover.
yeah, but I just tried to reduced it to the case we've just proved
like in the joke about the kettle
10:52
Hi y'all!
Hi, I will go take a lunch
@JM: hi, I guess I was running short on memory
Just to be sure... could somebody check my GIF here and see if the cartoon is jumping around for you?
it moves
No sudden jumps?
10:54
I don't know what is 'jumping around' though
it jumps periodically to the initial state and then moves again
it jumps when the red diameter becomes tangent to y-axis
That's the only jump I was expecting, since I restricted the angle range from 0 to 90 degrees, yes.
ah,I've seen the comment by Theo now
no, no such kind of behavior
okay, one good and one bad. now for more sample points...
@Gortaur: I do not recommend the paracetamol after the beer bit... that's a bit hard on the liver. Usually one needs a 12 hour wait in between the alcohol and the paracetamol (assuming normal alcohol metabolism.)
Aspirin however is fine (but of course not too much).
@tb actually that's very kind of them; the idiom I hear is that American beer is nothing different from refrigerated horse piss.
I never drank horse piss.
My unreliable source says Miller is the most notorious of them all. The dirty secret is that they make beer "syrup" and just dilute accordingly...
"syrup" as in they make a concentrated ferment.
On the other hand, I've never drank a European beer I didn't like.
11:11
Hmm, I've drank many which I didn't like. Heineken for one.
I would not say Heineken is the best, but it wasn't something that would make me gag either. Different tongues I guess.
Here, the beer I like is called "Cerveza Negra". It's a darkish beer due to the addition of some caramel.
@process91: Hello. I don't have a copy of Apostol so I didn't really have an idea of what were your starting assumptions...
@J.M I know, it's really a lot to ask I think. The more I consider it, the more I think that perhaps Apostol just wanted you to prove the general case as outlined
What's the question?
2
Q: Apostol Section 13.25 #13 - Conic Sections

process91Question: Prove that a similarity transformation (replacing $x$ by $tx$ and $y$ by $ty$) carries an ellipse with center at the origin into another ellipse with the same eccentricity. (The next questions go on to prove the same result (and converses) for hyperbolas.) Please don't feel the need t...

The problem is that rotation has not yet been discussed, so it would put a lot on the reader to just come up with that on their own (not that that's totally outside the realm of possibility)
Maybe I will modify the question to focus more on what Apostol does introduce
which seems to be slightly non-standard
The route I was accustomed to discussed rigid transformations way before conics, and I had thought Apostol took that route as well.
11:24
@process91: I don't understand how rotations enter --- or is the parenthetical (replacing x by tx and y by ty) by you?
What is the significance of K-Topology??
@Ramana: providing counterexamples
Otherwise it's not very useful
@tb the parenthetical is from the author
So it seems to me that Apostol only wants to scale the axes.
No rotations
Or do I miss your point?
@JM I never do it, why did you tell me that?
11:26
@tb well, the equation in standard form only includes central conics with vertical directrices
@Gortaur: maybe I misread what you said in the transcript. You were talking about beer and then paracetamol...
@Ramana: read the wikipedia page to see some of its properties
@tb Can you tell why that why is K= {1/n} where n \in Z^+ Any reasons or It is defined just like that??
@tb and the question asks for all ellipses with center at the origin
@process91 yeah, and rotation's the way to turn general conics into something whose axes are parallel to the coordinate axes...
11:28
@Ramana: It is just defined like that
@tb I guess @Ramana is asking for the motivation
@Gortaur: I already answered that, I think.
I am a boy @Gortaur
It's a very easy example of a connected but not locally connected and not path-connected space.
So in this respect it is interesting
@RamanaVenkata I'm sorry for this misunderstanding
11:31
Its okay
@process91: Now I see the problem, but I believe you're overthinking the exercise. I'm pretty sure it was just intended to take the standard normal form and convince yourself that the eccentricity remains unchanged after scaling the axes. I don't think you miss anything.
@tb I hope so, and it is entirely possible that I'm overthinking it. Intuitively, it seems like I can just say "given some central conic, align your coordinate axes with the origin at the center with the x-axis parallel to the major axis" and go from there, but I thought perhaps to be rigorous I should justify why doing so would not change the eccentricity
@tb the next question asks to prove that if two concentric ellipses have the same eccentricity and major axes on the same line that they are related by a similarity transformation, which is also easily reduced to the standard form by this approach.
About right, except I would replace "parallel" with "coincident"... :)
But yes, if you can assume that the conics have been rotated for you beforehand, it's much easier...
@JM good point
I dared and finally put some information about myself in my profile
11:39
@JM I suppose the next problem is not so easy, however - it says to show that the Cartesian equation which represents all conics of eccentricity e and center at the origin to prove that these conics are integral curves of the differential equation y'(e^2-1)x/y
@JM I see, from your equation (ax^2+bxy+cy^2 = 1) that this is the equation I'd want to use, but the book didn't provide that and I don't see how to get the answer to the above without deriving that equation
So perhaps I am supposed to dive that deep?
I've probably wasted more time thinking about whether it's really that deep a question than if I just did it already...
I'd probably be more helpful if I had Apostol's book with me. My copy is unfortunately far, far away... :(
@JM There are many copies online ;)
http://www.archive.org/details/CalculusVol1
Whoops, that one's in spanish
Here's one you don't have to even download: scribd.com/doc/5874133/Calculus-Volume-1-686pp67
@JM You've already helped me a lot, please don't feel like you have to go any further with this
Actually in the derivation of ax^2+bxy+cy^2 that I remember, the prerequisite was to show that if the more general conic was in fact a parabola (which can be shown if you were already introduced to the discriminant), there are necessarily linear terms...
...that requires the judicious application of completing the square.
Let me see if I can find the book I know online...
Hmm, apparently not. Oh well.
Thanks anyway
If there's a nearby library: try finding this.
11:50
Will do.
12:03
@JM: still here?
Just came back to the computer. What's up?
Oh, I'm giving Matt a hard time, recently. But I really find his "prose" so hard to understand that it is difficult for me to tell whether he understood things right, or whether he hides his confusion behind pseudo-formality. Could you have a peek at the comments to his answer?
Well, at first reading it looks to me that he's partially muddled and partially not used to the usual standards for this sort of thing. (I was tempted to say "lazy", but that's too presumptuous methinks.) That's my reading of him anyway...
As long as he's not chafing at your nudges, it should be fine.
That's my reading of him, too. However, I feel like he's sort of cheating his way through the course. He seems to have difficulties of keeping his assumptions separate from the things he wants to conclude. In outline the argument is okay, but there are quite a few mistakes in the details.
12:19
"keeping his assumptions separate from the things he wants to conclude." - my experience was that's an ailment that can't be easily cured. It will require Arturo-level patience to treat this properly...
Yeah, some problem with that is: 1. I lack that kind of patience, 2. I can't encourage him without having a basis to do so, and he seems to need encouragement quite desperately...
Put another way: I don't know the exact words that would make him say "Of course! I see I was being so daft..."
Probably I should just think, well, it's not my problem, after all :)
@JM Exactly.
Well, go with your gut is all I can say. If you must disengage, you can always do it politely.
(Even Arturo had to do that sometimes.)
Well, probably it would be more efficient to suggest we meet IRL, then I could use his reactions to fine tune my carrots and sticks. It's a bit difficult doing that sms-style in comments.
12:26
@tb that's the disadvantage (for some) or an advantage (for others) of the Internet
(BTW: I know I'm being unorthodox, I could never find myself loving \forall and \exists...)
@t.b. He's at ETH also?
@JM yes, but I'm currently not...
@Gortaur you're right, probably
Yeah, I still prefer face-to-face than comments myself...
I would like to meet both of you guys in IRL, on the other hand I'm not sure that you also share my willings )
I'm fine with seeing you guys actually. My only trouble is currently I cannot afford the airfare... :)
(But that would be quite the picture: a group picture of the major m.SE contributors...)
12:30
ah, so he trying to answer his own question. well-well
Well, I'd be interested in seeing many of them. It would probably be quite surprising to compare the real life personalities with those they represent here.
Yes, I'm way more quiet in real life... :)
I suppose the only thing that will remain (of most people here) would be the pretty high nerd-factor :)
Apparently so.
phuh
as for me, I go to the gym, does it count? )
I cycle and jog long distances, but I still think it doesn't count... :D
@JM jogging is important for all of us to escape from people who don't like mathematicians )
2
Actually very few people know about this hobby of mine.
@JM until that moment )
Usually when people talk to me IRL, I let them dictate the topic and I just adapt accordingly...
@tb I have upvoted Bill's comment. :) I'm still missing the point of OP's line of thought...
12:43
xxx: decided to make my skills higher. what would you advise from martial arts?
yyy: to pose or for the self-defense?
xxx: for the self-defense
yyy: jogging
zzz: jogging
ttt: jogging
111
do you know what helps when you meet zombie?
222
what?
111
jogging
Oh, I take up Aikido as well. :) Incredibly relaxing...
But jogging is often a good idea.
@JM sure )
@JM: I just saw joriki's comment to your ellipse. Maybe it's an apple thing. Even after rebooting, and clearing the browser's cache your animation doesn't display properly.
Okay, I'll try rerendering that bit and run the new one through you...
story in the same topic. Moscow Phystech is situated like 200-300km from Moscow, close to a small city Dolgoprudny. Once in 80s students discovered that locals use to meet students at the nighttime and beat them. Students decided to reply to these actions and make some student bands patrolling neighborhoods of the University in the evening. To understand who is the person they meet they ask him to calculate indefinite integral very quickly.
as appeared, they reduce the number of attacks from locals and also that semester all students showed much better in calculating integrals. Maybe a legend, but one prof. from that university told it me quite seriously )
12:52
I think there was a story like that posted at MO...
wow, I've found Bakhtin
these SE sites are really fruitful on surprising meetings
@t.b., could you check this version?
(BTW, have all my cartoons always been problematic, or only now?)
@JM: looks much better but still not perfect. At about 45 degrees there is still a small jump
No, I'd have told you, had I seen any problems with your animations.

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