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18:00
On the other hand, I haven't noticed an uptick in "Supporter" badges, so presumably there weren't that many drive-by upvoters...
J.M., is it possible for me to see your past gravatar pictures?
Are they stored somewhere?
Hmm
That was gotten from the address for my old gravatar
I guess it was replaced.
I thought you were generally showing your mean face around in the chatroom.
Thanks for the info.
Well, that too. :-(
18:09
>8(
There's my (partial) gallery.
@JM But that doesn't have your original, email based gravatar.
(I haven't put up all my math artwork.)
What's with the man's picture? Seems like an odd man out. :)
Nope, I've forgotten what it looks like...
@Sri: That's because he gets no respect...
18:11
Oh no, wait. Don't tell me it's you...
Nope.
(Relieved.) Ok fine.
Is there math hiding in all the pictures?
Like I said, no respect. ;)
All the other pics except the Nativity scene and ol' Rodney and the googly eyes have some mathematics behind them. I made them all with Mathematica.
18:13
No clue who this person is.
@SrivatsanNarayanan the link is live.
There's one that I might describe as "two eyes in a dark room". What's the idea behind that?
(Yes, checking out the link.)
No, that was a joke. No math. :)
@JM Perhaps he even got less respect in India.
18:16
@rob: I suppose so. :D
robjohn No exposure is not the same as no respect. :)
@SrivatsanNarayanan True, but making that into a joke, even a poor one, would be harder :-p
"I don't get no respect. My bathtub toy as a kid was a toaster."
That's shocking.
BTW: I got jealous of rob and Gortaur having something orange, so I got one of mine...
18:21
Perhaps we should all wear orange for a day.
The 31st would be an excellent time... ;)
@JM I noticed the orange helix inside
Is the green a helix as well?
@rob: Thanks to version 8, it was easier to do. Back when I did that in version 3, I needed to do a fair bit of coding...
It's harder to see
The green one's a thinner torus.
I did a "weird donuts" gallery back then. The current Gravatar is one from that collection, and it was the only one that had something orange... :D
Orange is the new black.
It's cool, man.
Not really.. black is the new black.
I got that picture from google chrome.
Not a bad one for a profile picture, if you ask me.
This is it for me today. I'm hitting the sack. See you guys.
18:38
Goodbye!
J.M. I guess we're like exactly 12 hours apart.
Good night...
@JM Good night!
19:04
Hi Good afternoon huhu
@robjohn Since you've studied with Stein, what is your favorite harmonic analysis topic and book?
19:32
@robjohn: Nice generalization here! I had wondered if there was a way to do something like that after posting my answer.
@robjohn You are currently the top user on the site for the week, by the way - just barely ahead of Arturo. Nice!
19:45
@AsafKaragila I have starred a message of yours some time ago, what was the experiment?
@Jonas It'll be fun if he now says he just wanted to trick you into starring his message. :)
Simple pleasures of life.
Okay guys, I'm going to do an experiment. Please star a message of mine.
@MikeSpivey the bounty of 350 sure helps :-O
19:57
@rob: Oh, yeah. My first week on the site I managed to pick up a bounty of 500. I think I was in the top 5 that week - I've never been that high since.
:) I was in the top 5 or 6 a few weeks back. I then fell down.
I have never been in the top 5 I suppose.
A new notation question: who introduced the exponent notation x^2?
At least it puts my rep to an even multiple of 10 :-)
The question has got a downvote for some reason. Same person perhaps?
20:00
Is there any way even a moderator could tell?
My computer crashed this morning. :( It took me two hours to figure out that it was the video card.
That notation question reminds me of a question I had sometime back. Before the days of the radian measure, did people "know" that the derivative of sin x is cos x, and in what form would they have written it?
@JonasTeuwen I wanted to see if I can remove stars from messages.
(Just a sanity check for the dates: For instance, the radian measure was introduced by a Roger Cotes in 1714. Certainly Newton and Leibniz lived before that I guess.)
@AsafKaragila And? Can you?
20:04
Whose stars? And from whose messages?
@JonasTeuwen You did star the message and now it is no longer starred... so what do you think?
@Jonas, star that last message by Srivatsan.
@AsafKaragila Done.
@JonasTeuwen Poof.
Can you also star them?
(your own)
Yeah, I can star my own by pinning the message. Look at this!
3
20:06
Or can you star messages in other peoples name?
What does pin the message mean?
Not only it is starred, it will remain on top of the starred messages until I relinquish the pin.
I removed the pin, by I still starred it.
I can't unstar it too, funny :D
@AsafKaragila what does "pin the message" mean?
@SrivatsanNarayanan Check out the quote from Newton's Principia near the bottom of this page.
If I'm following the statement correctly, he appears to define the trig functions in terms of the arcs they subtend on the circle rather than via the angles.
Interesting refernce. Thanks, Mike.
20:13
I suppose that would enable one to get that the derivative of sin x is cos x without having to deal with the right angle measure.
Quite clever.
@SrivatsanNarayanan I don't know if we'll ever find out.
I wonder how you zeroed in on this book. Have you read it before?
robjohn, That's kind of reassuring. :)
@SrivatsanNarayanan I did a search on "Newton's Principia fluxion sine", and this popped up.
So, no, I haven't.
@MikeSpivey Boy, I've had a darn good week, and a bounty of 350, and still I am barely ahead of Arturo.
20:24
So I guess, for an able mind, even the "wrong" definitions need not be terrible limitations.
Eek! I've just looked at Arturo's rep graph. Wow!
Arturo is perhaps the most important reason I believe in a rep cap.
But it is so futile. If I go to the bakery and say "I've got almost 5000 rep on MSE!" I won't get a free bread.
@SrivatsanNarayanan My understand of the Principia is that Newton tried to present all he knew of the calculus geometrically. So (while I haven't read it) I imagine he had ways of viewing basic results on calculus that are quite different than the ways we normally think about them.
@JonasTeuwen I made almost that same point a week or two ago :-)
20:28
Building off on that, a book I'm reading right now (Needham's Visual Complex Analysis) argues that viewing some of the basic calculus results from a more geometric perspective causes them to make more sense. He gives (in the preface) the example of the derivative of tangent.
Of course, Needham is arguing for the geometric viewpoint for complex analysis as well - that's the entire purpose of his book.
I think he's got a point.
Quoting from the book: It should be observed that the Geometria curvilinea is opened by a long declaration about the lack of rigor and elegance of the methods followed by those "men of recent times" who have abandoned the geometrical methods of the Ancients.
I believe that adds to your point.
Is that book any good? I've only checked out Greene & Krantz and Stein.
I took several classes from Krantz when I was an undergrad at UCLA.
He is a very nice guy, and very funny
Is he as good in teaching as he is in writing books? ;-).
@Jonas: You're right, of course. But I think the point system is one of the genius ideas of the stack exchange network (IMO) - in the way that it partially motivates so many of us to keep coming back to offer our expertise to complete strangers.
@JonasTeuwen Are you talking about the Needham book? I think so - although I'm far from an expert in complex analysis.
20:34
@JonasTeuwen He is a very excellent teacher. He is one of the few math teachers to have gotten a teacher of the year award.
Yes, it is a smart idea, but is it from SE? I can remember people saying "+1" in the past on forum posts.
You've been lucky. UCLA, Princeton...
@JonasTeuwen You may be right that it's not original to SE.
@JonasTeuwen Indeed.
@robjohn: Were you at Princeton?
And Stein!
20:36
@MikeSpivey as a grad student, yes.
A graduate student, does that lead to a PhD or a MSc degree?
@robjohn Me, too - although in the operations research department (in the engineering school). When were you there?
Do the US schools give an MSc degree in math?
(Here they don't use undergraduate or graduate, but Bachelor/Master).
@SrivatsanNarayanan Some do - it depends on the school.
20:37
@MikeSpivey I was there from 81-86
@robjohn 97-01
so a decade and a half apart :-)
By the way, almost forgot. What does "pin the message" mean again?
He can pin it so that it is shown on the right side.
20:39
It means putting it on the starred list, but it won't get pushed down by newer stars.
And anyone can do this?
Asaf is the room owner apparently.
No. Just the Koenig.
@robjohn I didn't spend much time in Fine Tower, although I did take the real analysis course required of OR grad students.
And (forgive me if this is TMI), but I did throw up in the bathroom in the basement of Fine Tower once.
Were you drunk?
Also, what is Fine Tower?
20:40
Is Fine Tower a Princeton jargon?
I spent a lot of time in Fine. My office was across the hall from the "tea room".
@Asaf: Fine Tower is the building where the math department is located.
Is it the analysis building? If so, I can really get why you'd throw up there :D
3
It's 16 floors of ugliness.
@SrivatsanNarayanan Fine Hall is the math building at Princeton. Most of the offices are in the tower.
But the common room, where they have afternoon tea, is in the lower horizontal part of the building.
20:42
So Fefferman is there? Wow, I need to go there.
@JonasTeuwen Charles Fefferman was there when I was there. I think he still is.
@AsafKaragila No, I wasn't drunk. A friend had convinced me that it would be good exercise to run up the Fine Tower stairs several times. I made it up three times before my visit to the bathroom.
He was studying the Hydrogen molecule when I was there.
Feferman from the Feferman-Levy model?
Is that Silvio Levy?
20:43
Fefferman from BMO and stuff like that.
He was a grad student at the same time I was.
No, it is Azriel Levy from Jerusalem.
Yes, he started a lot of BMO stuff.
@Jonas, FYI he was apparently Stein's student. :)
Yes, I know. And so is Terence Tao.
20:45
@MikeSpivey Oh. You should know, sports are bad for your health.
@AsafKaragila It sure was that time. Although I still maintain that it was partly because the stairs were so dusty - hardly anyone ever used them.
Yes, I have been to a couple of Terry Tao talks at UCLA.
@MikeSpivey I never puked from exercises. I puked from being drunk, once from smoking a hookah (with just tobacco, nothing suspicious), from other stuff... never from sports.
Throwing up because of running stairs? Cool!
@MikeSpivey Since I was on the third floor, I rarely used the elevator, but that part of the stairs was open air.
20:47
Apparently, the Fine Tower does not live up to its name.
Some of my more serious running friends tell me that sometimes they run for a while, stop, throw up, and then keep running. The stairs thing is the only time that's happened to me.
@robjohn It was the higher floors that I remember being so dusty.
Did you feel better afterwards?
@Jonas: I don't remember. Probably.
(I guess I should make clear that I wasn't referring to Fine, the person, of course.)
20:50
"[Fine] made Princeton a leading center for mathematics." (from here‌​)
John Nash (A Beautiful Mind) used to hang out around the common room a lot, mumbling to himself. This was before he got better.
Got better as in?
And I was in a group of grad students who would often have lunch with Andrew Wiles.
Nash was schizophrenic and was out of commission for a number of years.
Wiles was still there in the late 90s - and still is today, I believe - but I never met him. I hung out in the engineering building.
This was while he was working on FLT. He let none of us know he was working on it.
He was also there for a while in the 80s.
20:53
Ah, I didn't know the "out of commission" part. Sorry, wasn't meaning to make a frivolous remark.
@SrivatsanNarayanan: You should see the movie "A Beautiful Mind." It's about Nash's life.
Yes, I was glad to see that he regained his mental health and is again doing good work.
It was being filmed my last year at Princeton. My women friends used to get excited every time they glimpsed Russell Crowe.
@Mike Not for me, I think. I distance myself from any inspiration. ;)
(Just kidding. I will watch it when I get a chance.)
@robjohn Stein was your advisor?
20:56
yep
Cool. PDOs?
(as the topic)
@SrivatsanNarayanan: A lot of the focus of the movie is not so much the mathematics as it is Nash's struggle with mental illness. And Russell Crowe does do a good job as Nash.
PsDOs and Harmonic Analysis
Nice. I should find out more about that.
@MikeSpivey In the movie Nash is taking atypical antipsychotics while in real life Nash stopped taking any medication. If I understood correctly, they have added it so that people don't get the idea of stopping their medication and be more like Nash...
I think psedo Diff Ops took a backseat when wavelets came along. Similar ideas.
20:58
@JonasTeuwen: I did not know that. Thanks for the info.
@Gortaur: I love your new image logo. Very Gortaur.
@JonasTeuwen But why atypical?
Hmm, is that so? I only know one person in The Netherlands that does PDO. But then again, I only know one doing wavelets.
@SrivatsanNarayanan The name? Atypical antipsychotics are called atypical because they have a different side-effect profile of the "typical" antipsychotics, they are in general more modern, that's why I suppose.
@JonasTeuwen It did not seem that he was not taking any meds while I was there, but I was not a close personal friend, so I don't know for sure.
I think I have read somewhere that he stopped taking them on his own, let me try to find it.
@JonasTeuwen Oh, I didn't know it meant something specific. I thought they portrayed him taking something exotic.
21:01
No :). They are the most often used class of antipsychotics.
Here there is information about what I just said: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Forbes_Nash,_Jr.#Schizophrenia
My friend--mildly fanatic about LoTR--once kept Sauron's eye as his gmail status picture. Apparently, one of his woman friends misidentified it as a convex lens against a random background, which left him angry for several weeks.
3
@t.b.: Greetings! You look like a spiral galaxy today.
@Mike: thanks, glad you like my new dress!
@t.b.: It doesn't make your butt look fat.
21:05
I don't get it, @tb. How come constantly changing gravatars?
@robjohn: Didn't we see a slight variation on the question t.b. just linked to not that long ago?
From the title, I thought I'll like that question as well. Reading the full question, I will be content with liking Mike and robjohn's answers.
@MikeSpivey I don't remember, but I may not have seen it.
@Srivatsan: I haven't entered an email-address in my user profile, so my Gravatar depends on my IP, which, in turn, depends on my provider who likes to change it on a daily basis.
@tb Ah, I would like that...
21:08
why?
For no specific reason. Who wants to wear the same dress everyday?
Can't you have a randomized gravatar?
I wear only black cloths, so in a sense I wear almost the same dress everyday.
@Asaf: Well, you have to be somewhat morbid to like the AoC that much, don't you :P
So you could actually wear the same thing for weeks and nobody would notice @AsafKaragila?
21:10
Asaf, Somehow I cannot picture you in anything but a brown dress.
2
@Jonas: People have noses, y'know...
I am going to Nightfall tomorrow and I need to get my tires checked (one is showing a possible leak).
I will be back later.
Have a nice day @robjohn.
@JonasTeuwen talk to you soon.
21:12
@robjohn: oh, nice! That isn't an allusion to Asimov perchance?
@robjohn: Bye!
I found that question that's similar to the one t.b. linked to. @srivatsan, you answered it!
Hooray! I beat Arturo :-) (in writing speed!)
Tim Gowers seems to apply combinatorics to questions in analysis. What kind of combinatorics is that? It sounds funny.
21:15
Asaf, which question?
And I need to step out for a bit, too. Catch all of you later!
See you Mike!
Ciao.
@SrivatsanNarayanan Injective functions.
See you!
@Mike I see. That question does look similar, yes. Perhaps one can start from that question and adjust the indices a bit.
Ciao, Asaf
21:18
Ha! I found the nail in my tire. I am surprised it hasn't gone faster. I am off to get it patched.
@Jonas: A whole lot, part of it is preparing the grounds for Green-Tao by devising a new proof of Szemeredi's lemma.
You may want to look at Bolobás's ICM-report on his work available here
@tb Thanks!
21:46
Hmm...
I see that starred message about me in a dress and I wonder... should I exercise my powers? >:P
(No, I am too lazy to do that.)
Asaf, What can you do?
You would look good in that dress.
Remove the stars, so it won't be on that list.
Then I will just star it again.
You can remove my stars? That's interesting.
21:48
I have plenty of stars left.
@SrivatsanNarayanan I am the owner of the chatroom. This is my kingdom.
4
Where are the times that this chat would be written in java?
Thankfully gone and shan't return!
@JonasTeuwen Is there a budget for the stars, just like for votes?
Hmm, we should figure that out.
21:51
If not java, what is this chat programmed in?
HTML5/AJAX.
And the backend in .NET (what a shame).
the buzzer is in flash
I have desktop notifications which are a feature of Chrome (maybe others too).
22:07
tethered at the tire store.
thanks to the downvote, I am 2 points below capping :-)
If you get another upvote, do you get +2 or +10?
+2
And Arturo just passed me for the week.
by 52 rep.
I think so. I don't exactly know how the capping works when there are down votes.
perhaps I am just capped.
greetings @tb
@robjohn: welcome back! Tires repaired already?
nope, I am sitting at the tire store.
my car has not left the ground yet.
It is going up as I type.
I see
Keep typing!
@robjohn You can just get up to 200 points from upvotes. If there were downvotes, they get compensated by votes that wouldn't count otherwise. (hope that's clear enough)
Ah you mentioned that before... sorry
22:19
Oh man. I am stuck here. Why couldn't he paid attention to my comments when I posted them?
@Asaf ?
what are you talking about?
Some months ago I left a comment on this thread on MO regarding dual spaces and the axiom of choice.
I only wrote the countable/finite case properly, but I had a proof generalizing it to higher cardinalities. Now I can't find it and I am stuck restoring the proof...
And there's this huge "Asaf claims that ..." in the question, and the OP asked me for a preprint...
So I figured this is something nice to do in order to get myself back into work. I'll sit to write the proof (at least for this specific case) as an answer there.
@AsafKaragila stuck in your own kingdom?
So to speak :D
Sounds a bit annoying. OTOH, the burden is on you...
Can you link to it?
22:25
Soon. I am pretty close to finishing the proof, there's just one elusive argument which I need to recall and I'm done.
Speaking of MO: I'm shocked that this question isn't closed and downvoted, yet
I'll fetch something to eat, as I haven't eaten all day. This will refresh my memory.
Good night guys!
For this answer, currently it works only for invertible matrices, but for a general matrix, I guess it's a trivial fix because one can always perturb the given matrix a bit to make it noninvertible. (One only needs det to be continuous.)
@JonasTeuwen good night
22:32
@Jonas: sleep well!
I am wondering if there's a nice way that avoids this.
@Srivatsan: do you have invertible and non-invertible mixed up here?
I remember seeing such a thing in one of Bill's answer. To generically cancel factors like det A
Yes, I sure am mixing them up.
(The last word before the paranthesis much be changed to "invertible".)
@Srivatsan: I thought that Cramer's rule says that Adj(A) A = det(A) id
Oh, sorry doesn't help directly
user9176 has a cute suggestion along the same lines.
22:35
right, nice! :)
But it's a little application-specific. I think I will dig through Bill's many nice answers to find what I am looking for.
Sorry, you lost me
Never mind, tb. I lost myself. :)
Things will be clearer when I find that answer, I hope.
I commented on my answer to see if I can elicit a response from the downvoter.
22:42
@robjohn: good luck!
Isn't it great, that when you're not eating all day you finally eat something...
There are two possibilities I can think of: 1. sin^2(x) = 1/4 could be 150° as well as 30°, but the other angle of 45° knocks that out (I should have said that ). 2. someone mentioned it was a question of the day or something like that, and maybe the downvoter felt I spoiled something.
@AsafKaragila The second part, yes
@AsafKaragila the food tastes much better.
@tb Thanks. I will look at it later (nothing pressing about that answer anyway).
Going for dinner, people. Bye!
22:47
See you!
@SrivatsanNarayanan dine well.
So, of course I need to replace all 4 tires instead of getting a puncture repair.
Typical.
@Asaf: so why are you a co-owner of the room?
Just before the room was starting to get active, I was pretty much the most active user in the room on a daily basis. Apparently if the 'real' owner isn't around for long enough the most active user gets throned.
Interesting.
22:52
5
Q: Why am I the owner of the chatroom?

Asaf KaragilaSo I talk a lot... Is this enough reason to give me ownership on the chatroom? Is this ownership going to last until manual removal or something else?

@Asaf: If you're not careful, you're soon to be dethroned by usurper robjohn
(he's already number one active participant for a while now)
@tb No, as long as I am chatty enough I'll keep my throne.
4
Okay, no danger from that department, then
@tb where is that information?
@robjohn: If you click on the Gravatar list you can go visit the user profile. There's a small number bottom left indicating your ranking in activity.
22:55
I see that I am second to Asaf on the frequently in chatroom
I run about a fifth of the chat in this room.
@tb Which number? "top 0.96% this month"?
I see no number there.
Never mind
I found it
That's not your profile as I see..
You cannot see your own number. You need to go into the info of the room, there you'll see it. Or in your chat user profile.
22:59
I clicked on the "user profile"

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