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17:00
@AshleyDavies don't write things like x=2x, that doesn't make sense
no, but the proof can surely be found somewhere
@AshleyDavies you're trying to do a substitution, so let u=2x, and so the dx must be replaced with du/2 in the integral, which is where the 2 factor comes from
Sorry, I've used subscript in my writing to distinguish them; hard to do on a page
@BalarkaSen if $|z_1| = |z_2| = t,$ then $|z_1z_2| = t^2 \neq t$ unless $t \in \{0,1\}$
17:01
Ohh, thanks! :) can't believe I missed that
but what goes wrong for $t =0$?
no multiplicative inverses
precisely
@AntonioVargas Usually, the second case is different from this one, namely if $f(n)= \Theta(n \log^b a)$ then $T(n)= \Theta(n^{\log_b a} \lgn)$.
so $\{z : |z| = t\}$ is not even a group, let alone a subgroup, let alone a normal subgroup ($t \neq 1$)
17:03
no, it can be given a group structure
it doesn't make sense to say a set isn't a group
any arbitrary set can be given (assuming ZFC, for nitpicky set theorists) a buckload of group structure
he means with multiplication obviously
yes.
i'm trying your problem now, @anon
@SohamChowdhury being a subset and a group with the same operation is the same as being a subgroup. and also your subset is a normal subset, it's just not a subgroup :-)
embarrassed smile
@evinda i believe ur post needs tiny changes on some points , atleast "Could you hel me" needs to be edited
17:06
@Agawa001 I did so
that reminds me of madagascar movie scene , where HELP became HELL :D
Could someone take a look at my question:
0
Q: Find the force and the torque so that the cylinder is in balance

Mary StarAt the cylinder of the picture there are static pressures from environment fluid of density $\rho$. If we neglect the atmospheric pressure, calculate how much force and how much torque is needed so that the cylinder balance. In my notes there is the solution, but I haven't really understood ...

?
Are you maybe familiar with that? @KarimMansour
Hi @MaryStar
sorry busy atm studying for my exams
Ok... No problem... @KarimMansour
@BalarkaSen Here ? :p
17:14
I am now.
@BalarkaSen If I have took a homomorphism between Z and a ring $A$, the kernel has the form $p\Bbb{Z}$. The characteristic is $p$ right ?
if it's an injective ring homomorphism, $A$ is necessarily $\Bbb F_p$
@BalarkaSen $F_p$ it's $Z/pZ$ ?
yeah
it's just the first isomorphism theorem for rings.
but if the homomorphism is injective, then $A$ is infinite.
17:20
correction : i meant surjective
whoops, I have to leave.
@AntonioVargas Glad to hear it.
ok, yeah it's the the first iso. Ah too bad... have a nice day
huh. now here's an interesting coincidence.
@AntonioVargas: just now i was looking at the arxiv preprint which your talk seemed to be based on, and noticed that part of what you're interested in there were certain bessel functions, and their integral representations
...and yesterday, in my research, the following integral (and the question of its analytic continuation) came up: $$\int_{y}^\infty \frac{y^2-x^2}{e^{x}\pm 1}\,dx $$
which integrates to (up to a multiplicative constant) $\sum_{n=1}^\infty (\pm 1)^n \frac{y}{n}K_1(n y)$
ah interesting
that integral representation is for $y>0$, i should say. so the summation of bessel functions should be understood as analytically continued to the rest of the complex plane
so if you've built up some applicable expertise in that realm, i'd love to know :)
17:30
Is the integral undefined for $y<0$? It seems okay at first glance.
Oh when the $\pm$ is $-$
yeah, there's a pole at zero in that case
doh, and it should've been $\sqrt{y^2-x^2}$
I've only encountered a series like that once, but it was for the $J_1$ function
2
Q: Mysterious subleading corrections to sums with internal dependence on limit

SharkosIs there a standard method for finding expansions in $N$ of sums like $$S(N)=\sum_{n=0}^N \sqrt{N^2-n^2}$$ beyond the first term? It is easy to compute here that $$S(N)=N^2 \int_0 ^1 \sqrt{1-x^2} \mathrm d x + \mathcal O(N) = \pi N^2/4 + \mathcal O(N)$$ but finding $S(N) \approx \pi N^2 /4 +...

@SohamChowdhury For some reason, when I think of "god", I think it would be more of a jock type, and thinks you are crazy for saying the oxymoronic phrase "mathematical beauty".
well, the logarithmic part of $K_1$ at zero goes as $I_1$, which is just $J_1$ evaluated at imaginary argument
and actually the behavior along the imaginary axis is part of what i'm crucially interested in
interesting, i'll take a look
Oh for $y \in i\mathbb R$? So you really do have something like $J_1$
17:34
right
btw, the reason i'm defining it for $y>0$ is that, for $y<0$, the way that integral shows up is a bit different: the lower limit become $-y=|y|$
but rather than have a lower limit which is nonanalytic in $y$, i figure it's better to start with $y>0$ and analytically continue the bessel function sum
For large $y$ you can probably get the leading order in terms of a cosine or sine sum. I was lucky enough there to only need to evaluate it for $y$ like $2\pi i n$
nod. main thing we care about there is establishing that it's exponentially decaying as it should be
Gotta start boarding, talk to you later!
nice song while studying
@Clarinetist
17:39
Afternoon @KarimMansour
afternoon @Clarinetist
What's with the whole discussion about God starting up all of a sudden?
@Rememberme Nice, What is the first half, to right before the proofs?
which discussion
punk music ?
17:41
Not sure, it is weird all the messages stared from 4 hours ago
not my type
@AntonioVargas: for reading after your flight---the two things i really care about re: that sum of bessel functions are 1) how does the prefactor of the logarithm behave? It should be some infinite sum over bessel functions $I_1$. 2) what's the behavior along the imaginary axis? for any particular $K_1$ the function gives decaying oscillations along the imaginary axis, but what about after resumming? pretty sure something nontrivial happens
I hate it you know when people try to find weird patterns in math and say oh look
some god pattern
super stupd
stupid *
So out of curiosity, is it supposed to be morphism or homomorphism? I thought of this during that one abstract algebra problem yesterday
I guess morphism is a category language @Clarinetist
I think morphism is the map with respect to a given category
17:43
i find that kind've dumb too. i'm actually somewhat sympathetic to religion in general, but for reasons which make me entirely unsympathetic to that kind of thing
for example groups it would be homomorphism I think though my knowledge of category theory is zero
I mean humans always try to find some higher meaning in whatever they do so they make it meaningful I guess.
Morphisms is just the generic term for, well morphisms. homomorphisms are typically specific to the situation, like linear transformation, or homeomorphism. But morphisms of blah is just as clear if not more so
I saw some interesting debates among two algebraists when I was in my undergrad. One likes homomorphism, the other one says that morphism is what people actually say. Another one was whether the dihedral group of order $n$ is supposed to be $D_{n}$ or $D_{2n}$. Dang, I hope both of those people aren't leaving soon :/
@AntonioVargas: ...huh, looking at your answer seems to be exactly the sum for the aforementioned prefactor. think i'll look at that pretty carefully
I already told you the right answer! @Clarinetist
:P
17:45
@PaulPlummer Yep, haha. We don't say $S_{n!}$!
lol it is $D_{2n}$ that is for sure
Your dead to me @KarimMansour
I think in Group Theory, $D_n$ is more accepted. That's my general impression. I think Dummit uses $D_n$?
why would you write $D_n$
dummit uses $D_{2n}$
it makes sense coz of its order
17:47
Do you say $S_{n!}$ for the symmetric group @KarimMansour
@PaulPlummer sure ;P
no since that looks ugly lol @PaulPlummer
@Clarinetist Chris's sis suddenly started thanking God in a $\huge{\text{\huge font-size}}$ for her mathematical accomplishments
Oh I see
The $n$ should tell you something about its action, not its order
that is the important piece of information
17:48
Random question, I forgot what $S_n$ is. Isn't it the set of all permutations $(1, \dots, n) \to (1, \dots, n)$ - and a permutation is just a bijection... right?
It's been two years since I've seen that stuff.
$S_n$ is the how many permutations you have for a finite set
Dunno if I will ever use it again. I would like to
I see @PaulPlummer
17:50
Hello @Hippalectryon !! Are you there?
I'm sure you will, @Clarinetist, even if it's just for fun some time
The next time I study Algebra again... I would like to actually understand Galois Theory
It seems fascinating
why not finish DF @Clarinetist
you would understand all algebra until maybe 1st year grad school
@KarimMansour I think I'll buy Artin
that is my goal this year
17:51
and then look over DF
@pjs36 What do finite group theorists say about $D_n$ or $D_{2n}$
I heard DF is better than artin
@PaulPlummer I forget... I know mine preferred the opposite of whatever Gallian used, but I can't remember what Gallian used!
@KarimMansour I'm too OCD about proving everything. Could barely get through chapter 1, since I found myself using axiom of choice to prove the left-inverse iff injective, right-inverse iff surjective proofs
17:53
@Clarinetist I concur, I really want to learn some.
@Clarinetist Well you have to use AC
@PaulPlummer Yeah, but I suppose that must be assumed knowledge before you read DF. I had only used AC only once before I read that chapter
@Clarinetist Friendly request: don't use "OCD" that way. :)
I do that sometime @Clarinetist haha
@SohamChowdhury K
17:55
Do you need choice for the injective bit?
but sometimes one doesn't want to go deeper when proving something I mean one really funny thing I always do when solving problems
That's what I thought.
is see how far can I stretch it that is how weaker condition can I impose and still prove the problem
I just want a no-nonsense-go-straight-into-algebra book
and for it to be as self-contained as possible
17:57
@Clarinetist Just start at chapter 2
Can someone prove that ?
3
Q: Kernel of a matrix pencil

user203039Let $A,B$ be $n\times n$ singular real matrices such $ker A\cap ker B=\{0\}$, how could I show that there exists $x\in \mathbb R$ such that $ker (A+xB)=\{0\}$?

start DF at chapter 2 I would say too
That's actually a huge reason why I can barely get through Ch. 1 of Munkres
Seriously for the most part, if you got your basic math down, the first chapter normally belongs in an appendix
Munkres Ch. 1 is even worse than DF Ch. 1 IMO
17:58
Chapter 1 is usually helpful if you want to get familiar with the author's notation and conventions.
For someone who's self-studying most of this stuff, it's hard to discern what's important and what isn't
Sure, but even then just go to chapter 2, if you run across a weird notation look back
@PaulPlummer I am trying to prove that R/I is a field iff I is maximal using maps, so I look at $A\rightarrow A/I$. Assuming that $A/I$ is a field, then if there exist an Ideal $J$ such that $I \subseteq J \subseteq R$. First we have $\phi(J)$ is an ideal of $A/I$, so has the form $<0+I>$ or $A/I$, I am stuck at the case $ \phi(J) = R/I$
@Clarinetist have you heard Saint-Saens' The Carnival Of The Animals?
I like the Aquarium section a lot.
one of my math prof told me sometime you should attempt solving the problems without reading the chapter
it makes you discover the ideas by yourself
I think that also good idea
18:00
@Gato the way to think about this is with lattice-correspondence. something is a field if there are no ideals between it and 0, and I is maximal in A if there are no ideals between I and A. Now, lattice correspondence puts the ideals in A/I with ideals between A and I.
depends on whether you can understand what's being asked without reading the chapter
@pjs36 I am surprised, that means you group theorist teachers prefer $D_{2n}$!
@anon lattice-correspondence ?
@SohamChowdhury Yep, I've heard the whole thing maybe 3 times now. My gf learned the cello part way back when
@LeGrandDODOM Alors les résultats ?
18:02
@Gato ideals of A/I correspond to ideals between A and I
@Gato J'ai raté la barre de l'X de 30 points ...
also known as the lattice isomorphism theorem or whatever
@anon Ok , nice view. Thanks
@LeGrandDODOM Ah dommage!! Mines et centrale donc ?
@Gato la semaine prochaine. J'ai pas eu d'ENS non plus (ce qui me dégoute vu que j'ai eu 15 à une des épreuves de math)
@LeGrandDODOM Ah merde; c'est dommage. Mais bon c'est pas grave, t'auras Mines et Centrale easy alors. :)
18:05
@Clarinetist you said she just started?
@SohamChowdhury Heh, I hate it when I do that. 2 years ago :P Seems like forever ago though
@Gato espérons :)
Not very well, I'll give it a shot.
Ravel's piano stuff makes good pre-bed music.
@SohamChowdhury Tell me when you're done with that one :)
18:07
Did you hear Forget Not?
@SohamChowdhury Ah, send me the link
I wish I were anywhere near skilled to play that piece
(by Ravel)
Don't you like Liszt much?
@SohamChowdhury Liszt is okay, I much prefer Ravel
I do too.
@Clarinetist Jeux d'eau is that to me.
Search around, there's a piano cover of Recuerdos. With actual tremolos.
Recommend me some more of Ravel's piano stuff, @Clarinetist.
@SohamChowdhury Tell me when you're done with Une Barque and I will let you know :P I have something else to show you before that
18:12
Buffering is killing me.
@SohamChowdhury Ah dang, didn't realize you were dealing with that. In that case...
This is intense.
I'll just listen to all of Miroirs, then.
Are you listening to what I gave you?
@SohamChowdhury By all means, do. I also recommend listening to all of the Le Tombeau de Couperin and the Ma Mere l'Oye (but these are harder to find)
@SohamChowdhury Yep I am
18:14
The accent patterns in the bass are so interesting.
@SohamChowdhury Tell me when you've heard enough of the Une Barque to get the gist of it
I have, listening to Alborada now.
@SohamChowdhury Heh, tell me when you're done with the Alborada :)
Oh, buffering.
Never mind, I'm done.
Double surprise coming :)
Ok
Ravel's a master orchestrator :)
There is also an orchestral version of Alborada
18:17
@Clarinetist I've heard.
@SohamChowdhury You can find the scores for these on IMSLP. They're absurd
God, those tremolos.
faster u play on violin , faster ur mind process things
(where God is a figure of speech)
einstein was good violinist
18:18
@Agawa001 right. because? because Einstein?
haha, inb4.
For example, who would have the skill to write something like this??? i.imgur.com/d4hxJjw.png
That's the beginning of the Une Barque
Yep, you have to use decision trees or something like that...
@Clarinetist Sooo many parallel thirds (?)
@SohamChowdhury Yep. What baffles me even more is how in the world Ravel extracted that from the original piano score
18:20
Well, I know where "environs" comes from now.
@SohamChowdhury if u cant play on violin thats ok , not necessary u would be lazy fazy
@SohamChowdhury This was the first work by Ravel I heard. :) Hooked.
@Agawa001 Well, how do you know I can't? ;)
i supposed
You shouldn't.
18:24
@SohamChowdhury And of course, Ravel wrote this for orchestra. BEAUTIFUL arrangement.
@Clarinetist I think piano and guitar do arpeggios better than most other instruments, because real legato isn't possible (although it is to some extent on a guitar).
That percussive/legato mix hngggg
@SohamChowdhury "Real legato" is extremely easy on woodwinds
Oh I see what you mean
Dang, piano legato can be atrocious
to execute
I don't like that as much tbh. The notes aren't so well-defined.
Do you know Allan Holdsworth?
@Agawa001 I read "devotee of Mozart" and all credibility goes whoosh
@SohamChowdhury I feel like I've heard the name, don't know their work
What's wrong with Mozart, @Clarinet?
@TedShifrin Hi
Salut, @Gato.
BTW, @Clarinet, one of my favorite pieces of my dad's is a chamber piece with clarinet in it.
18:28
@Clarinetist Jazz guitarist extraordinaire (is that correct?).
really ? because of devotee thing ?
@TedShifrin I didn't understand but now I see it was for Clarinet :D
@TedShifrin It was mainly in reference to the ever-so-famous Mozart effect where listening to Mozart is supposed to make you smarter.
Je le regrette, @Gato.
@TedShifrin starts searching
18:29
Oh, you mean I'm not smart because of the music I listened to?
The Barque orchestration is gorgeous, @Clarinetist.
Wow, those timpani.
you r smart , depending on which type ofmusic you are trendy
@Ted what music do you like?
@Clarinet: Seymour Shifrin Serenade for 5 Instruments
mostly classical, romantic, modern, more chamber music ... also listen to some pop stuff
I wish I liked Mozart, tbh with you. I mimic Mozart in my free time and start realizing the music is ridiculously easy to mimic
18:31
@AlecTeal Hi!!! Do you maybe have the book of Cormen, Introduction to algorithms, where the chapters 30-35 are included?
Your dad a composer, @Ted? (left the verb out intentionally)
Well, Bach was the most cerebral, @Clarinet, but I am more partial to some of the romantic and later ...
yes, @Soham, he was. He died in 1979.
@TedShifrin Dang, if only I could write some counterpoint as well as Bach could. That I've tried! Extremely difficult
may he rest in peace
18:33
@TedShifrin Very nice Serenade, by the way. favorites
Counterpoint is hard.
I'm a Gould fanboy, btw.
@SohamChowdhury Renaissance - traditional "species" counterpoint - is extremely easy. But you start getting me into Baroque counterpoint, I'm completely lost
I hope I can at least learn how to write a proper fugue sometime
Gould is way too idiosyncratic for me most of the time, especially with all the damn humming.
18:34
He talks so much about what Bach does all through his music in that video. It's very educative.
@SohamChowdhury Highly recommended.
^I WISH I had the skill to write that
@Clarinet: In truth, if you want to really learn most of point-set topology, you need to have mastered most of the introductory chapters of Munkres.
Hi professor
18:35
hi skull
@TedShifrin Yeah, I struggled with the first chapter mainly because of my lack of familiarity with the Axiom of Choice
oh, axiom of choice isn't that big a deal ...
but all the countable/uncountable games are.
@Clarinetist, @Ted: I highly recommend you looking at that Gould video I posted, if you're interested in Bach.
@Ted: is it stupid to start with Bredon?
I don't know Bredon's book. I know he has a large range of stuff compiled in it.
Believe it or not, I've actually never heard the entire Art of the Fugue before
I think I'll listen to the original before I listen to that one
18:37
He starts with a ~50 page point-set intro.
I can only say "Just do what you want, and if you can't or it's not helpful, stop" so many times before I combust and die
3
@SohamChowdhury Did you listen to the Nokia fugue? Heh
@MikeMiller haha
@Clarinetist Haha, I did.
@TedShifrin you cant be so mathematically adapted , or even logical thinker , where yu are so into "yo yo , fu shizzl ma nizzle "thing
18:38
@MikeMiller I saw you say that a while back.
thats the point
@SohamChowdhury
(I used to look up fugues with stupid subjects in my free time, heh)
I was present most of the time Mike said that
WTF? @Agawa
@TedShifrin That's what I'm thinking, heh
18:39
oh, @Balarka is awake?
think there's no need to mention that it was because all of those were directed towards me
i m refering to "Oh, you mean I'm not smart because of the music I listened to?"
still doesn't understand
@TedShifrin I am.
It's called humo(u)r, @Agawa ... or sarcasm ...
18:40
See, Balarka. I don't get scolded because I'm 16. ^_^
No wonder people don't understand your sense of humor, @Ted
@SohamChowdhury Like the Lady Gaga fugue? heh
Most people do, @Balarka.
Chatrooms aren't good places for it.
Tone and body language go riiight out the window.
Yes, like the time you drew those isotherms of USA
18:41
What?
That wasn't humor, @Balarka. That's my being a horrendous artist.
@SohamChowdhury Counterpoint to Oops, I Did It Again:
C'mon, stop now
I am joking, @Ted. It was actually pretty good.
@SohamChowdhury Heh, k. Some of these are hilarious. I wish I had the time or talent to write these :P
18:43
Ooooooh noo not Britney :D
sarcasm , is something which differs regarding culture , religion , language , and many other things
so i might miss the joke
@Clarinetist here's some, uh, metallic Ferneyhough. This is the most comprehensible of their pieces, though. link
@Clarinetist?
18:47
Gotta run, bye SErs
Listen to that, k?
Later pal
Good night, everyone.
I'm off.
@Ted: Here's an interesting question. Suppose I have a fixed-point-free involution on $S^n$. Is there some embedded $S^{n-1}$ that's invariant under the involution? I think it's true.
18:57
See you later.
19:11
@MikeMiller I need to prove that $\Bbb{Z}/10\Bbb{Z}$ is isomorphic to $\Bbb{Z}[i]/(1+3i)$. I consider a homomorphism $\Bbb{Z}$ to $\Bbb{Z}[i]/(1+3i)$. The kernel is the set $\{x\in $\Bbb{Z}$ : \phi(x)=\overline{0}\}$, and $\overline{0}=0+(1+3i)$, and $(1+3i)=\{(1+3i)(a+ib) : (a,b)\in \Bbb{Z}\}$. Am-I correct ?
Is someone of familiar with fluid mechanics?
Hi guys, I was here earlier asking for help with integration - and managed to solve the question after someone pointed out a flaw in my reasoning
I just looked back at my answer and I noticed something I believe to be a mistake, yet I still arrived at the correct answer.
I integrated 1/rt(3-4x^2) using definite integration and the, er, are they called boundaries? of integration were 3/4 and 0. I substituted in u as 2x, so that it was 1/rt(3-u^2) and then used a formula I had given for arcsin(x/a), ending up with 1/2 arcsin(2x/rt3)
I simply then just evaluated it by substituting in 3/4 as x and running it through my calculator; correctly giving a sixth of pi. I now realised that when I did u = 2x, I never changed the boundary from 3/4 to 6/4, but despite this my answer came out correct - Why is this? :/
19:26
Could you help me, please? Just i never saw before that \int_e f = f(0), where e = {0}
I described it here very simple, there is full version math.stackexchange.com/questions/1314889/…
have a nice day
20:20
You too :-)
For all you high tech gamers
We were given a velocity field and we have to calculate the vector field of the local acceleration, the acceleration because of the transport and the total acceleration at the time $t=0$.

Could you tell me the formula at each case?
20:54
fair warning : some of these are very nasty

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