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20:07
why hello there fellow mathematicians
@PhilipHoskins Since $f(x) \sim 2\sqrt{x}$ as $x \to 0^+$ we get from Watson's Lemma that $$\int_0^\infty f(x) e^{-kx}\,dx \sim \int_0^\infty 2\sqrt{x} e^{-kx}\,dx = \frac{\sqrt{\pi}}{2k^{3/2}}$$ as $k \to \infty$.
if a quadratic formula has a discriminant of 0, there for only one solution. Whats the best way to explain why it is only solution?
So your limit is $\frac{1}{2}\sqrt{\pi}$
@AntonioVargas f(0) = 0, so can we use Watson's Lemma here?
Oh wait, that should be fine
@PhilipHoskins Yes, in the notation of the wiki page you have $\lambda = 1/2$ and $g(0) = 2$.
20:16
How do you end up with $\sqrt{\pi}/2$ exactly?
That integral is a gamma function in disguise. Setting $kx = u$ gives $$\int_0^\infty 2\sqrt{x} e^{-kx}\,dx = \frac{2}{k^{3/2}} \int_0^\infty \sqrt{u} e^{-u}\,du = \frac{2}{k^{3/2}} \Gamma\left(\frac{3}{2}\right),$$ and there are formulas for half-integer gamma functions.
Oh I was off by a factor of 1/2
$\Gamma(3/2) = \Gamma(1/2)/2 = \sqrt{\pi}/2$, so actually $$\int_0^\infty f(x) e^{-kx}\,dx \sim \int_0^\infty 2\sqrt{x} e^{-kx}\,dx = \frac{\sqrt{\pi}}{k^{3/2}},$$ and the correct limit is $\sqrt{\pi}$.
@r9m I posted a short answer using methods from one of my earlier answers.
@AntonioVargas I think I may be coming to the same conclusion in a different way: mathb.in/37123
So now I just need to estimate the series
@PhilipHoskins That series is an asymptotic series for the integral. It is its own estimate. Each term is smaller than the previous term as $k \to \infty$, so first you have $\sqrt{\pi}$ as the limit, then the next term is an estimate on the error between the integral and $\sqrt{\pi}$ for large $k$, then the next term is an estimate on the error of the error, and so on.
20:38
@AntonioVargas I'm not that comfortable with asymptotics, to be honest. But my work agrees with yours
I get the same limit
I just estimated the series by comparison with the geometric series with ratio (1/k^2)
And that was silly
never mind
@AntonioVargas: hey again
how goes the conference?
@PhilipHoskins That's good. If I could make a final comment, it's that you do not need to estimate the series, and it does not even need to converge. It is an asymptotic series (this is a conclusion of Watson's Lemma), so you can truncate it after any number of terms to get an estimate.
Asymptotic series are very useful things :)
@Semiclassical It's going well
Yeah I can see that. And d'oh!, My estimate was good because the series starts at 1, so it really does vanish as k-> \infty. I realize that I don't really need to do this estimate, but it was a psychological thing for me
r9m
r9m
@robjohn ya I saw that .. infact I pointed out the same idea in comment .. but the OP said he's looking for a proof using differentiation under integral sign though.
@Semiclassical But I've seen about enough talks on various applications of the Riemann-Hilbert method to last me a lifetime!
How are you?
20:45
hah, fair enough
Do you have an idea for my question: physics.stackexchange.com/questions/187539/find-the-forces ? @Hippalectryon
eh. needing to do some writing and feeling utterly stuck
which has less to do with the writing and more just feeling kind've blah
This feeling... I can relate
interestingly, a main bit of it is just introducing the asymptotics of a certain sequence of orthogonal polynomials
@r9m I've added a comment to the effect that you outlined the same approach in comments.
20:48
@Semiclassical Are they related to any of the usual families?
@r9m However, he seemed to want a way using DUI or another method starting with the integral at hand, not another.
yeah. basically it's just linear combinations of Chebyshev polys of the second kind: $p_n(x)=U_{n}(x)+t U_{n-1}(x)$
@r9m I think that answer might satisfy the second request.
r9m
r9m
@robjohn okay .. :) but I was looking for a way with DUI too .. so far I haven't got anything in that line ..
@Semiclassical Ah right, I remember
20:51
@AntonioVargas Well, thanks for the help. That one was bugging me all morning and because of it I forgot to eat lunch. See ya later!
though usually i parametrize it using either $x=\cos k$ or $z=e^{i k}$
@PhilipHoskins Glad to help! Cya
@r9m I tried a bit, but it does not seem obvious, if there is a way at all.
@MaryStar You want the force on the top surface ? Or on the whole box ? (basically, what's $\Delta$ exactly ?)
r9m
r9m
@robjohn I am not used to DUI .. very rarely I get to sense where to apply it ..
20:53
which is natural enough, since in that form one can write it (up to algebra errors made from doing this off the top of my head) as $$p_n(z)=z^n \frac{z+t}{z-1/z}\left(1+\frac{1}{z^{2n+1}}\frac{t+z}{tz+1}\right)$$
@Semiclassical Have you heard of the Lame' Equation?
(that's an accent on the e)
brb (but yes, i am)
back @AntonioVargas
i'm familiar with the lame equation in the context of finite-gap potentials
$\Delta$ is the left side of the square... We want to find the forces $R_x$ and $R_y$ at the support which is at $\Delta$ @Hippalectryon
@MaryStar And what's $\partial{W_1}$ ?
(which actually is in my mental background for the problem i've been working on, namely b/c a periodic jacobi matrix always has a finite number of bands)
so one doesn't have to wrestle with some of those infinities
21:07
@Semiclassical That's something I'd like to learn a little about. Certain solutions of it come up in RH stuff for the finite gap potentials, and I was wondering if it's possible to look at things in a more general context to see if other solutions of it can show up in a similar way.
It has these polynomial solutions which some pretty regular zero behavior, and there's a related problem with a generalized Lame' equation and some slightly more interesting zero behavior of its polynomial solutions.
gotcha. the problems i was initially working on, actually, was working with generalizations of mathieu's equation (which isn't finite gap) using WKB i.e. quantization of certain integrals
Ah, okay
and i know that the WKB method can be interpreted in terms of RH problems (not that I can do so myself, mind) so the linkage doesn't surprise me
Do you happen to know of a good place to read up on the Lame' equation in regards to the finite gap potentials?
Lame equation ? O_o
21:10
ehh. it's been a while. let me think a bit
It is the boundary of the red square... but I haven't really understood what it is... @Hippalectryon
For y=1(x-8)^2+(-104) wouldn't the vertex be (-8,-104) ? wolfram seems to say (8,-104) which i am not understanding why that is the case
i think that Ablowitz and Segur had a pretty nice discussion of it in the context of the inverse scattering method
Ah yes, I've heard of them
I shall look at it, thanks :)
21:13
this might have some good references as well (i had it saved as a bookmark, i forget why)
any one able to explain ? bit confused
@MaryStar What's $dA$ then ? How can you have an integral over $\partial W_1$ with a differential element $dA$ ?
The internet is so slow here. Come to me, files. You can do it.
4
snerk
take a look on page 82 of the novikov one if you want to jump in
ah, yes, and people.sissa.it/~dubrovin/rsnleq_web.pdf has some stuff as well
21:19
@r9m I just finish the proposal and sent it.
@Hippalectryon So is it wrong?
@MaryStar Probably not, but the notation is so obscure that I don't understand what it stands for
just to finish up my elaboration from earlier: if $|z|>1$, then one has szego asymptotics $$p_n(z)\sim z^n \left(\frac{z+t}{z-1/z}\right)$$
@Semiclassical Thanks a bunch. I really appreciate it.
the asymptotics for $|z|<1$ are then obtained just by noting $p_n(z)=p_n(1/z)$
21:31
Interesting, it almost looks like a blaschke factor
I guess that's from the symmetry
it's also worth noting that things simplify if $t=1$, since then one has explicitly $$p_n=z^n\left(\frac{z}{z+1}\right)\left(1+\frac{1}{z^{2n+1}}\right)$$
and more generally there's a distinction between $|t|\gtrless 1$, since that determines whether the zero at $z=-t$ is inside or outside of $|z|=1$
r9m
r9m
@Chris'ssistheartist what was the problem?
@r9m I write you in private.
r9m
r9m
@Chris'ssistheartist you can always mail me you know .. as I already said private is not private enough
it's really the last factor (which goes to unity as $n\to \infty$) which i'm most interested in, since it behaves non-trivially on the value of $n\times (t-1)$
21:38
@r9m Yeah, I'll do it the next time. Look at it now.
r9m
r9m
@Chris'ssistheartist 'kay .. got it
and that's where all of the hoped-for nonlinear DE / Painleve / RH stuff should come in
@r9m It's one of the most beautiful pieces, honestly! When you have time, give it a try, :-)
r9m
r9m
@Chris'ssistheartist 'kay .. Ill try it later :) I'm watching one piece (anime) atm
@r9m hehe, OK! :-)
21:41
@Chris'ssistheartist >.> you always say that though
Too many great formulas out there :D
@Hippalectryon lollll, but that problem of mine is simply mind-blowing! You need a recovery time after you see the proof. :-)
@Chris'ssistheartist Most of your problems are :-)
@Hippalectryon LOL :D
I found the following in my notes:

Gauss-Green theorem: if $W$ has a smooth boundary then $$\int_{\partial{W}}g n_i dA=\int_{W}\partial_{x_i}g dV$$
@Hippalectryon
vatt
vatttt
21:49
??
@MaryStar O_o that notation is awfully obscure. Where does it come from ? The usual $\int_\mathcal{S}\vec{g}\cdot\vec{n} dS=\int_\mathcal{V}div(\vec{g})d\tau$ seems much more explicit to me
@KarimMansour is that new reflexive interjection when hard math problems begin to confuse ur mind ?
yeah @Agawa001
@Hippalectryon That's the single-component variant, say $\vec{g} = g\cdot \vec{e_i}$.
does it help ?
21:53
@DanielFischer Not necessarily, you can use that for electric fields on several vectors. Wait, are you talking about my version or Mary's ?
like scratching head
@Semiclassical Well I'm off. See you later!
@Hippalectryon I meant Mary's is the single-component variant.
Oh okay.
21:54
@Hippalectryon I don't know... The prof showed us this formula...
O_o What's with profs giving formulas without saying where they come from
Do you mean from which book? @Hippalectryon
time to sleep
@MaryStar No. I mean why they hold. A formal proof isn't necessary, but at least grasping how one can understand the formula from physic's point of view would be interesting
i ll have boomy cheery day tomorrow
and need to sleep early
22:02
how I can post here a image??
post the link (ending with .png or whatever) @Masacroso
it doesnt have a extension of image
that's odd. Send a link anyway
ok, I take it, about this image i.imgur.com/YSOi9FZ.png
It does end with '.png'
22:03
you cant show here in chat?
I dont want to link it
You can. Just post the link (alone)
now here, why the boundary of sum changes?
@Masacroso You can always type formulas in LaTeX though
from $k\ge 0$ to $k$, it is very important
Im lazy man
it doesn't change. It's $k\ge0$ in both cases, whoever wrote that "$k$" boundary was just lazy
22:06
it does, after you noticed in text
He told us for example that the augmentation rate of the mass in $W$ is $-\int_{\partial{W}} \rho \overrightarrow{u} \cdot \overrightarrow{n}dA$. @Hippalectryon
this $k$ represent any entire value not just positive ones
@Masacroso Only that ? There's also mass that enters/exits through the other holes ..
@Masacroso No ?
@Masacroso Do you understand why the equality holds ?
22:08
after this formula is derived in two ways, one is invalid just because $k$ can take negative values
so I dont understand why the boundary changes
@Masacroso Show me the whole thing. I assure you, the boundary should NOT change since the equality just relies on the fact that $\binom{n}k\frac{1}{k+1}=\binom{n+1}{k+1}\frac{1}{n+1}$
Concrete Mathematics, Graham, page 182
I don't have that book -_- I'll try to get it on the internet, give me a sec
I know that it doesnt changes but book says it so I dont understand
@Masacroso 1st or 2nd edition ?
22:10
2nd
resume: the point is that some transformations on binomial coefficients are not valid depending of the type of boundary of a variable
@Masacroso why do you say the boundary changes? The terms inside are identical, so I don't think they intended the bounds to change.
one of these is not valid because, the book says, k can take negative values !!!
it is the same that I think @robjohn
how k can take negative values if it obvious it cant do it?
this is what I dont understand, so I asume boundary changes in some point
and the integral $\int_{\partial{W}}\rho \overrightarrow{u} ( \overrightarrow{u} \cdot \overrightarrow{n})dA$ is the rate of the outflow of the momentum from the boundary of $W$ @Hippalectryon
@MaryStar Yeah, that one is pretty logical (do you get this one ?)
Not really... :/ @Hippalectryon Could you explain it to me?
22:14
@Masacroso $\binom{n}{k}=0$ when $k\lt0$
yes, I know @robjohn
I will upload somewhere 2 pages of the book so someone can see it
@Masacroso Where does it says $k$ can be negative ?
second
yes, if you read the explanation to the next page you will see @Hippalectryon
22:16
@MaryStar Okay so $\rho\vec{u}$ is the momentum by volume right ?
@Masacroso It's as @robjohn says. $\binom{a>0}{b<0}=0$
@Hippalectryon From which book is that one?
yes but it doesnt happen on the text, bottom or top never can value zero or less @Hippalectryon
@Chris'ssistheartist Concrete Mathematics
@robjohn Nice talk in there. I should look over that book.
ofc when bottom value is less than zero the value is zero
22:21
@Hippalectryon Yes...
@MaryStar And $\vec{u}\cdot\vec{n}$ gives you the particles that really go out (for instance all the particles will go out if $\vec{u}$ and $\vec{n}$ are aligned, none will go out if the speed is perpendicular to the normal vector (=tangent to the surface)
the book says "Ah yes; we fell into the old trap mentioned
earlier: We tried to apply symmetry when the upper index could be negative!" but it never can happen! It is not possible that anything would be negative because $k,n\ge 0$
@Masacroso ?? What do you mean 'they can never value zero or less' ? If $k<0$, the values are negative ...
but k never is less than zero
@Aleksandar Привет :)
22:27
see the boundary
@Aleksandar как дела?
@Masacroso Why ? I do see $\binom{-n-1}{k}$ at the end of the first page so ...
I see...

I thought again about the momentum... Isn't it $m \overrightarrow{u}$ and since $m=\int_{W}\rho dV$ shouldn't the momentum be $\int_{W} \rho \overrightarrow{u}dV$ ?
@Hippalectryon
@MaryStar That would be the momentum of the air inside the volume, not the momentum of the air going out through $W$
this is the other option @Hippalectryon,not the failed one
22:30
@Masacroso I'm not sure then :/
if you follow the "incorrect" way you never take a negative value
the other option is the correct
this is what I dont understand, well, ty anyway
@Hippalectryon Ahaa... I see... So, the momentum of the air going out through $W$ is $\rho \overrightarrow{u}$...
but $k\ge 0$!!! This is why I think the boundary changes in some point
@MaryStar Well, it's $\rho\vec{u}$ for the particles that go out (hence the last scalar product)
@Hippalectryon I understand!!
22:36
:D
So, is the force equal to the sum of the rate of the outflow of the momentum and the augmentation rate of the mass? @Hippalectryon
@MaryStar Well, you have to take into account all the ingoing/outgoing flows
I don't see how the augmentation rate of mass makes a force though.
hello all
The integral $\int_{\partial{W}}\rho \overrightarrow{u} ( \overrightarrow{u} \cdot \overrightarrow{n})dA$ is the rate of the outflow of the momentum from the boundary of $W$... The rate of the ingoing flows is the same integral with a minus sign? @Hippalectryon
@MaryStar No, inwards/outwards will be a consequence of the speed's direction; my only question is (I don't remember the drawing anymore) does the integral over $W$ include all the open parts (=where the air can come in/out) ?
22:43
well, I discovered what is the real reason why the path failed but it doesnt have relation about the book says
well if the boundary changes it makes sense because we go from a binomial that can take value zero on the bottom, ie $\binom{n}{k}$, to someone that never take the value of zero, ie $\binom{n+1}{k+1}$, so maybe the boundary changes to compensate it
22:58
I found in my note how we derive the formula of the force... @Hippalectryon
Equation of conservation of momentum:

$$\frac{d}{dt}\int_{W}\rho \overrightarrow{u}dV+\int_{\partial{W}}\rho \overrightarrow{u} (\overrightarrow{u} \cdot \overrightarrow{n})dA=-\int_{\partial{W}}p\overrightarrow{n}dA+\int_{W}\rho \overrightarrow{b}dV$$

$\overrightarrow{\mathcal{P}}_W=\int_{W}\rho \overrightarrow{u}dV$: rate of change of the momentum of the fluid at $W$

$\overrightarrow{G}_W=\int_{W}\rho \overrightarrow{b}dV$: total massive force at $W$

$\int_{\partial{W}}p\overrightarrow{n}dA=\int_{\partial{W_0}}p\overrightarrow{n}dA+\int_{\partial{W_1}}p\overrightarrow{n}dA=\overrighta
as I mention from time to time, the community math blog is looking for posts.
10
anyone who is interested can either ping me for details
23:13
hi
nobody here?
1
Q: Differential equation Laguerre $xy''+(1-x)y'+ay=0, a \in \mathbb{R}$

evindaThe differential equation Laguerre $xy''+(1-x)y'+ay=0, a \in \mathbb{R}$ is given. Show that the equation has $0$ as its singular regular point . Find a solution of the differential equation of the form $x^m \sum_{n=0}^{\infty} a_n x^n (x>0) (m \in \mathbb{R})$ Show that if $a=n$, where $n \in ...

@evinda hi
how are you?
Do you have an idea how we could show that $L_n$ satisfies the equation Laguerre if $a=n$?
@Lucas Fine, thanks and you? Do you have exams now?
yes
I am scary...
I want 10
and I have many emotions
evinda ?
can you help with an explications?
@Lucas Later... I am studying right now... Which subject is your first one?
23:17
@Hippalectryon, I take the error on the book... all this section that I posted is completely wrong. In the book this deduction is not true: $\frac{1}{n+1}(-1)^n\binom{n-1}{-1}=0$. This is completely false, the nature of binomials is like limits. You cant assume anything if you dont know all variables involved, because when $n=0$ then $\binom{-1}{-1}=1$. So there is no error, LOL.
Romanian language
why $sin(\pi-x)sin x-cos (\pi-x)cos x=-cos (\pi-x+x)$ ?
why isn't $sin^2(x)+cos^2(x)$ ?
anyway both are get to $1$
but don't understand how the author obtain the first relation
hmmm
The general formula is $\cos(a+b)=\cos(a) \cos(b)-\sin(a) \sin(b)$ @Lucas
thanks mary
:)
@mary we can prove an inequality using limit?
for instance, suppose that we have 2x+x>x
23:26
Why do you want to use limits? @Lucas
we can verify that for any $x\in (0,\infty)$ -> $\lim_{n\to\infty}\frac{2x+x}{x}=2$ which is clear biggest than 1
so for any $x\to\infty$ 2x+x>x
this is just an supposed example, an easy to observe that inequality
@MaryStar isn't correct what I said?
not $2x+x$
sorry*
$2x+1$
yes, I want to be a constant
but I want to know if I prove correct the definition of limit
because I was meet an exercise as this type and the easiest way to prove inequality was to use limit
and I want to know if I'm correct
anyway it's available for $x\to -\infty$
so this inequality is available for any $x\in\mathbb{R}$
The general definition of limits is:

$\lim_{n \to \infty} a_n=l \Rightarrow \forall \epsilon >0 \exists n_0 \in \mathbb{N}$ such that $\forall n \geq n_0: |a_n-l|<\epsilon$

@Lucas
what's wrong in my way ?

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