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00:00 - 21:0021:00 - 22:00

00:01
Neat, that missing vote came through. I am going to get a silver tag badge in a few hours! :-)
congrats!
what badge?
Although I reached 400 votes on [set-theory], I did not yet fulfill the 80 answers limit. So at the moment I'm gonna have [elementary-set-theory]
my chat screen is bouncing a slight bit with a period of about a second and amplitude of a pixel or two.
It stopped when I sent that message
weird
00:05
Nothing. Must be that Mac OS of yours... being jittery that some people use their minds!
must be, I wonder who is using their mind?
certainly not a local phenomenon
@Asaf: I have 94 votes on calculus. I have a long way to go.
so you got 408 votes with fewer than 80 answers?
on [set-theory]?
Yeah.
I have a few high voted answers.
And you need to have 80 answers to get the badge, I take it.
Ah, so I will get something for 6 more [calculus] votes since I already have 31 answers.
@JM: The dough didn't really leavened, but it went puff during the baking. Was nice.
You get a badge for 100 points and 20 answers, too
00:13
I made a small loaf of bread, just enough for dinner for two.
@robjohn Check my profile, I am missing badges for [axiom-of-choice] and [cardinals], but that's because you need 100 questions in the tag to begin with.
You have 26 answers, so why doesn't 100 votes get you the badge for AC?
There aren't enough questions under the tag.
but it says you have 26 answers. what more is needed?
@Gortaur You can put a bounty; the snag is that since you answered the question as well, the minimum bounty you can post is the one for giving 100 rep...
@AsafKaragila I see; how about taste and texture?
Good morning J.M. :-)
8:20 AM
or there abouts
00:18
Yes.
How is Sunday?
:)
I'm waiting for my coffeemaker to be done...
Then you can throw it out?
coffee :-p
tea, yum.
Green tea is best tea.
I know, but I already did tea yesterday...
...and I need to use up these beans by next week.
A teacher(-to-be) would think "one is either a 'math person' or not"?
00:25
Pretty awful stance to take on something, especially if you're going to be dealing with 8 year olds.
*I* didn't really care math until I was a teenager...
Stupid router...
It tasted great, especially with pesto.
Okay, now you're just making me jealous... :P :)
What... The pesto was not homemade... It was a great pesto though.
Anyhow, the router decided to quit, and it is pretty late. Be seeing you folks.
See you later, Asaf.
00:31
I like all kinds. White, Green, Black, even Red, though green has a good balance of things.
@J.M.: I got a C in math in 6th grade. Then I taught myself algebra and calculus over the summer from the encyclopedia and some library books.
I did well in math after that.
I suffered because I didn't learn trig for another year.
So you taught yourself calculus at age 12 in one summer?
without the trig stuff. yeah
Heh, that's pretty crazy. I can't imagine doing it without the trig stuff.
and it wasn't much into integration either.
mostly differential
Ah. The multiplication tables were giving me trouble until I was about eight...
00:35
it limits severly what you can integrate :-)
Oh ok, I figured trig substitution integrals would be pretty hard without trig.
...and multiplication only made sense to me when I was taught to see things as counting grids.
I had trouble, too until I was 13 (I was 13 when leaving 6th grade since my birthday was in May)
I spent the whole summer studying math.
something just clicked.
For me, it only clicked with geometry... algebra wasn't really that great a motivator before that.
Oops, miscalculated. I was 12. Still have trouble subtracting ;-)
00:40
:) No worries; I have to double-check myself when getting change...
The next year I got interested in astronomy, and I now do a bit of astrophotography.
Cool! What sort of film do you use? Or is it all digital?
I started astrophotography as soon as the DSLRs came out.
so it is all digital.
Here is my latest image.
The software does the false coloring for you I suppose...
I use the straight camera data. I don't use false coloring.
00:47
Wow, those are all very cool pictures you have on your site.
From your Flickr account, apparently you have a script doing the position reckoning for you... :)
Oh, you mean the astrometry.com stuff? that is a neat bit of software written by a guy at Princeton. It matches astrophotos to a database and locates where your image is and what is in the image.
All you have to do is to register your image with their group and they run your image in the background.
I'm guessing they need raw images...
It adds all the little boxes. I have only had to add one box when their software failed to mark something (it wasn't in their database)
They get just what you see on the Flickr page.
Whoa. They only need to see Flickr? Now that is neat!
00:52
It is very convenient.
The astrometry group is on Flickr, so you just register your image with them and they add the boxes to your image.
all you do is register the image. The boxes show up magically :-)
Ah on that image, you will see two boxes that don't say astrometry. Those are ones that I added myself.
heh, "magic".
I know what is in my image, so I could add the boxes. I just think it is neat that a computer program can identify the images given the amount of sky out there and the fact that it has no idea how much sky is in your image.
or what the orientation is.
Ack. I just noticed the time. I have to go and meet my wife. BBL
Okay, see you.
 
2 hours later…
02:42
@J.M.: there you go, taking away my calculus badge! :-)
03:25
What?
(It seems Asaf now has one of his coveted badges)
 
3 hours later…
06:23
I wouldn't have known about the badge if Asaf hadn't been jumping about his.
You changed a calculus question to differential geometry.
Put my [calculus] count down one. :-p
06:42
hello
sup
I'm trying to come up with a calculation
for how much data to buffer
I'm downloading at one rate and playing music at another. I'm trying to figure out how much to download before I start playing so the buffer isn't starved
06:59
sounds like it requires knowledge of certain programs or computational processes outside of pure math
but informally, I recommend downloading it 100% first, just on digital principle :P
i think its a simle d/r/t problem
let me give some data
distance is 7,583,451 bytes
downloading will take 255 seconds at 29,684 bytes/s
playing will take 237s at 32,448 bytes/s
I think I need to figure out, how much time to let downloading happen before starting playing, so downloading finishes ahead of downloading
07:22
buffer 28 s
at 29,684 b/s -> 831152 b
Oops 18s
534312 b
need to work on my subtraction
that makes sense
@Derek: that make sense? after 18s of downloading you have 237 s more
just enough time to play the song
07:29
no charge ;-)
thats the best kind
 
3 hours later…
10:04
@rob: But it's differential geometry... okay, you can retag to calculus if you feel that way. I won't do any further edits to that question.
So about the bread..
I consider it as a saved-failure since I baked it on a high heat and it was not fully baked from the inside. The idea of slicing it and baking-toasting the loaf was good and it worked.
I'm not sure if the yeasts or the baking soda made it foamy and nice.
Not fully baked? How long and how hot?
But it was great, the olives and the tomatoes gave their touch, no doubt about that.
200 C for 30 minutes.
The knife I used for slicing couldn't even break the bottom of the bread.
200 sounds a tad low...
10:07
if you're only doing 30 minutes, that is.
I don't mind doing for more, really.
I just want the bread to be properly baked :P
How would you bake it?
Make it 45 the next time. Actually, I'm only guessing here since you're using fresh yeast, which I'm not accustomed to.
remember that the heating is partly to kill the yeast and partly to develop the dough.
@J.M.: I was kidding... notice the :-)
I am not that obsessive.
@rob: I gathered that, but I was CMA just in case... :D
@Asaf: if you don't kill the yeast at once, they'll further develop the dough, making it mushy instead of firm
10:13
I agree that it is (differential-geometry)
I like my dough crisp and freshly minted, not mushy.
So, should I start with some high heat and then lower it?
No, you preheat, put in the bread dough, and put it there for 45 minutes, or until you like the shade of golden-brown you're seeing, whichever comes first.
In an answer it is claimed that all one needs to show is that
Of course I preheat.
uh-oh... :D
10:19
But should I heat it to 160 or something like that instead of 200?
And just give it more time?
is bounded
@Asaf: Yeah, you can do that too.
just keep watch on the dough around the 30 minute mark
@J.M.: I figured you weren't replying to me. :-)
:D
@rob: the "uh-oh" was for the invalid bit... :D
yeah, I missed converting one of the spaces to %20 for codecogs.
10:23
oh yeah, having to remember percent encoding makes the CodeCogs solution sometimes inconvenient...
I think there was some meta question involving whether/not it's kosher to edit in the (homework) tag without an OP's permission, but I never can find it anymore.
the only one I have found necessary, though strict HTML would say otherwise, is the %20
IIRC the consensus was that it should be a voluntary addition by the OP. Let me check...
@anon: Nice how I got almost twice as much reputation but you have the Generalist badge :P
I just got that in the last 24 hrs. Honestly wasn't expecting it.
10:25
@Asaf: you ain't a Generalist to begin with... :D
@JM Truer words never spoken :D
on the other hand you now have a shiny silver specialist badge...
True. And in like 10 more answers in [set-theory] I will have another.
Also if I'll answer each and every question on [axiom-of-choice] from now until there are 100, and on average I'll have 5 upvotes per answer... I'll get a silver specialist along with the bronze one :D
@J.M. Iirc that was indeed the consensus. I bring it up because it was contravened in this recent q: math.stackexchange.com/questions/73001/…
I just wasted 2 min staring at Asaf's profile looking for the "Specialist" badge until I realized I'm dumb...
@anon: Oh my, I can't find that thread either... yeesh.
(Willie where the heck are you when you're needed?)
10:32
I have very few badges. I don't need no stinkin' badges..
I made it to one under eagle (life badge) in the boy scouts. But you can't rank up after you turn 18 yo :/
They do have a specific definition of the term "boy"... :D
Being a boy scout when you are too old can get you in trouble with the poilce :-)
I want to be able to understand p-adics and adelic rings and AlgNT and work my way up to Tate's thesis, but I get the feeling it will require some sort of paradigm shift in my mathematical constitution, as I'm normally an analysis kind of guy and the advanced algebra is hard to wrap my head around. But I have something to shoot for.
There's always math.SE to ask, and the hope that Matt E might chance upon your question...
10:40
I've got a good collection of pdfs, it's just a matter of focusing my attention span more than I'm used to :)
Oh man. Another 3 hours ride in the train.
How I despise the Israeli trains...
Trains have internet? Sweet.
...phone?
Moreover there are parts without even 3G network.
10:43
oh, you're not on the train right now, duh...
I'm gonna be in an hour.
so you can't even tether your laptop...
I was about to ask that question too, anon... :D
I don't have a lappy.
@Asaf: will you have to take another 3 hour ride back tonight?
10:45
No, we're gonna stay there until Tuesday.
:-O no laptop? how do you survive?
Here they're starting to put Wi-Fi on the trains and buses. It's as if they're sure people would love playing Angry Birds and checking their "walls" during the commute...
Does that mean we won't hear from you for a few days?
I have an iPhone.
No...
I've seen people chat on satellite internet on planes
10:46
@rob: told you he's an addict... :D
I'll be bored and come to the chat on the train, and they do have a computer there.
Crappy computer, but a computer nonetheless. :P
@J.M.: I took my laptop and tethered from Mammoth on our vacation last August
So perhaps I am an addict, too.
I made a lot of MSE posts then
but I can stop whenever I want.
that last bit is something I've never heard from Asaf... :D
perhaps he's not in denial of his addiction.
lol *As I summed up, Emmy
smiled, looked into my eyes, and in a soft
voice asked, “Have you ever engaged in
real analysis with someone?’’ Of course,
as I had stopped (perhaps prematurely)
at calculus, I just blushed and answered,
“No…” With a quick glance, she asked if
I was up for trying it right there and then
for the first time. I was so nervous that
my palms were sweating. At that
moment I couldn’t think straight. I just
stammered, “Yeah… but be gentle.”*
10:51
oooh, \int e^x on MSE
...is that fanfic?
Yeesh.
Well. Be seeing you, folks.
have a good ride
watching Asaf slowly sink into the webpage
\int\sum\times works too :-)
it's like the bastard child of an analysis book and a romance novel...
2
11:01
It is. It is very well done.
11:13
lmao: It was just like Good Will Hunting but a million times better—I was doing it with Emmy rather than Matt Damon
...and you can read "doing" in at least two ways... :o
Did someone just go through my answers and upvote? I just got 70 rep from different posts
all within the last 10 minutes.
not me. I had that happen too when I advertised tutoring on craigslist. (they were reverted the next day though, so meh)
Tutoring on Craigslist? Who knew?
@rob: quite peculiar...
11:26
The timing and one vote per answer makes it pretty obvious that it was one person.
drive-by upvoting :-)
upvote-and-run...
At least I'll know what happened if I lose 70 in a day or two.
Those assholes from the university.... they made us miss the train.
how did they do that?
when does the next train leave?
An hour
They locked the exit gate...
11:39
so you can't get out to get to the train?
Well, I had to come through the campus because the ATM is here.
And the gate which is connected to the train station was locked.
going a different way, though, can you get to the station?
Yeah, but I couldn't get there on time.
So I went back to my office for the time being.
Whoever starred my last quip, thanks a lot!
11:55
welcome
It looks as if two people have starred it :-)
I sure wasn't expecting that badge...
Quite outspoken
Since there is no way to tell who has starred your comments, there is no way to know when you might get one of those badges.
Yeah...
I guess if you have one comment with 10 stars and then 9 others that would do it?
12:10
well, there is one way to bound when you might get such a badge: sockpuppets
You mean dummy members?
no, I mean puppets made of socks
Drats... I'm not longer the only outspoken :-)
Congrats :-)
Well, I have to catch a train now. Be seeing you.
@Asaf: It is now clear that I'm as mouthy as you are... :D
@Asaf: better luck this time.
12:12
Considering that you need 20 rep to be a chatter, some effort is needed in addition to making sock puppets.
Hmm, didn't know that. Still not that big of a deal. Just use your sockpuppets to give each other rep...
collecting socks now
5am here. If I keep this up I'm going to become dependent on meds to sleep :/
Oh my...
In other news: apparently I'm late to the news that Flajolet's kaput...
oh, I have his analytic combinatorics book in pdf. otherwise never heard of him
12:30
@JM Well, not as mouthy. I am still the Koenig for a reason :-)
Right... :D
I think I do a quarter of the chat here...
And.... We're on the train.
12:45
I'm currently looking at an old answer of mine that needs some improvement. Unfortunately, to improve it, I need to expend way more effort than I can currently spare...
13:17
Clicked the wrong circle.
13:39
@J.M.: I looked at the question re \sum \binom{2k}{k} \binom{2n-2k}{n-k} intending to answer in the manner you did, but saw that you had answered and that the accepted answer was a combinatoric one, though more complicated. The combinatoric argument is similar to an article I wrote for sci.math. I don't really understand the value that seems to be placed on the "combinatoric" word-problem explanations.
Hmm. I just tried to add a link to the old question, but got a message saying that my edit was too long. What is the limit for chat messages?
time to wake up my wife and go to the grocery store.
See you later.
It's almost 22:00 there, so I may see you tomorrow.
13:58
going to the store later. she's not feeling well.
14:15
LaTeX rendering seems to be broken again on the iPhone
It worked a week ago.
Sorry, was on the phone
Well, the appeal of an analytic approach is different from that of a combinatoric approach...
I'm not sure about character limits here, sorry.
14:39
@robjohn where? at store?
14:51
@Gortaur: sorry, I was AFK for a while. I will be going for a walk with the dog soon.
I was talking to J.M. and it was late there.
It's almost 23:00 there
I looked for the character limit on the chat and couldn't find anything.
I also posted on meta about a math rendering error on the iPhone that just started a da or two ago.
I have not upgraded to iOS 5, so that isn't it.
BBL
15:17
can someone point me to some kind of an intuition behind the matrix projecting onto a subspace. it is written as
i guess no one's here
yayu: If $u = Av + Bw$, where $B$ is a matrix representing the orthocomplement of the subspace determined by the columns of $A$. Then at least it works this way: $P_A u = A(A^T A)^{-1} A^T (Av + Bw) = A(A^T A)^{-1} (A^t A) v + A (A^T A)^{-1} (A^T B) = Av$.
yayu: So the $A^T$ term at the end will drop the orthocomplement part away, and the $A (A^T A)^{-1}$ is there to compensate for the effect of $A^T$ to recover the part in the subspace we are projecting onto.
 
2 hours later…
17:11
@JJ thanks. that makes sense
 
1 hour later…
18:22
is anybody here?
I wonder if disjoint union of X(alpha) is a union of {alpha}x X(alpha) over all alpha
there 'x' is a Cartesian product
 
1 hour later…
19:25
@Gortaur: yes, that's the standard way to implement it.
@tb: thanks
in the textbook it was a bit implicit
nice gravatar, seems to be non-random. is it?
@Gortaur: still random :), err... )
save it if you like it )
@t.b.: your ISP randomizes your IP?
@robjohn: well, random is probably the wrong word, but I have no control over it, so, as far as I'm concerned, it is random
19:36
well, it probably randomizes it within a given block of IPs
depending on which ones it has free.
do I understand correct that f:G->1 is an endomorphism for any group G?
if 1 is the identity of G then yes
since then you have a map f: G -> G
Interesting. I was unaware of, or more likely forgot, the difference between the set theory and probability theory notions of disjoint union.
i prefer the first one now
what is the probability notion of disjoint union?
19:40
and I would prefer it without knowing it
it is a union of sets
which are disjoint
so you cannot apply it to any family of sets )
each set in the union is disjoint to start with, so you don't need to tag the members with the set they came from.
there was a thread about weird notation on MO I believe
ah, I see, a union that happens to be a union of disjoint sets.
there was a post about disjoint union
19:42
@tb yes
what's weird is that sometimes people do not write explicitly that sets are disjoint
they just show it implicitly by taking disjoint union
yes, I've seen cups with a dot on them and square cups, etc
exactly
so when I saw your convo about disjoint union, I had to go refresh my memory
@tb thanks for pointing me here
@tb do one of those mean disjoint union?
Ah the square one does
at least according to Wikipedia
19:45
@robjohn: yes, people dot the cup or write it using square cups in order to indicate that the sets are disjoint. I've seen the dotted cups mostly in hand-writing, but maybe it's a European thing. Don't remember if I ever saw it printed
@tb I saw dotted cups as well in quite old books on PT, in English not in Russian
cool, I have learned something this morning at least :-)
@robjohn that's nice
@Gortaur: pointing you where?
although, it is no longer morning here.
19:47
that 1 is an identity of G
Ah, I see
@robjohn: when I was younger, 1 P.M. was quite early in the morning...
@tb I have a friend, who in college considered it obscene to have a class before 1 PM
I would have agreed. I suffered quite a bit in my first year, with that analysis prof who walked in three times a week at 8 o'clock with the best of moods, saying with a bright smile on his face "let's do a little analysis"...
There's a story of Wolfgang Pauli at ETH who was asked to give a course at 9 A.M. He complained in a letter "I can't give a course at 9 A.M. because then I'm already in bed!"
3
I have always gotten up early. Kind of a competition with my dad, but I don't know if he was aware of it.
a private competition.
I see. I changed my rising habits a bit when I was further up north and found out that two hours of sun a day is just not enough for me. And DST was mainly invented for the early risers, I believe.
19:55
I thought it gave more light in the evening...
I thought it's to annoy us
e.g. it will not happen in Russia from this year
which increase the difference in hrs
I will never understand what happens. We will shift the clock an hour back, end of October so dawn and dusk are an hour earlier on the clock, isn't it? I think it makes more light in the evening during summer.
but probably the point is that I think the time in Summer is just right and I don't need dawn to happen before 8 in the morning. Anyway, it's utterly confusing :)
+500
@Gortaur: bounty for figuring out the purpose of DST?
no ) btw, I've already put the bounty on recursive functions but I can assign it only in 24 hrs, so I'll do it tomorrow
+500 refers to my total agreement with the last post by @tb
20:07
why +500?
what is the significance of 500?
that is a mem only for runet maybe
interesting.
wow, the Question about generating function is about a polynomial, and Didier gave what I thought was a tongue-in-cheek contour integral answer, but it was accepted.
I never cease to be amazed here.
@robjohn: by the way, the Treasure of the Sierra Madre/Blazing Saddles thing about stinkin' badges came up a while ago on meta.MO
I will have to look
I wonder if the bounty will be awarded or not...
20:16
That was back in April. Long before I was even here. Sometimes I feel like a newbie, and sometimes like I've been here a long time.
@tb it depends on whether the OP has a clue.
right.
I saw on your profile that you're only here since end of July? Unbelievable... Feels much longer.
It's a polynomial with coefficients given explicitly as binomial coefficients. nothing more complex than that.
That sounds about right. I got fed up with sci.math and someone mentioned MSE
Bill pointed to some threads on sci.math, and it really looks like there is a lot of noise there. It's incredible how little noise we have around here. Even if there are some unpleasant encounters from time to time. The moderators really do a great job here.
The only nastiness I have encountered here is an occasional flame in a comment, or a vindictive seeming downvote.
20:34
That sounds about right, at least that's what I saw, too, recently. There were some really unpleasant exchanges on meta, but most of them were storms in teapots and happened before you were around. You can find them if you look for them, but it's not really worth it and the ugliest things were deleted anyway.
Create utopia by deleting the bad stuff :-)
20:52
@tb what are you referring to?
oh I can't erase my question to you now. nevermind, since it is deleted I think people would like to forget about this stuff
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